Ponies always right hypocrisy?

[Bendy 1,821]

There was an infamous quote from a fan fiction writer in our fandom with many of the stories involving around the theme. That went something along these lines below.

 

"The Ponies as a truly superior species can do whatever it wants to a lesser species like Humans, and if said lesser species did the same thing did back to them, then they would be evil."

 

Meaning a superior species can enslave or commit genocide on your species and maintain the moral high ground no matter what, and if said species resists, then they are evil.

 

What? So Humanity is evil for not wanting to be enslaved or destroyed? Like what if another all powerful species used this same stupid logic to the Ponies? But if the Ponies fight back, then they are evil for resisting them?

 

It's just hypocrisy in my opinion. 

Edited August 26, 2013 by Rush

[Commissar Alexer 763]

It is hypocrisy. I'm pretty sure i know who you are talking about, makes wonder me if she is on this site too.

But yeah, this is pretty much Nazi logic.

 

*sigh* The Converion Bureau....how i wish the imperium of man would pay you an visit.

[Scootalove 10,689]

Whoever said that quote, is wrong. When humanity resists being enslaved or killed by ponies, means that we have the rights of freedom and that we must defend ourselves against the ponies. The Conversion Bureau, your lucky that we're not around yet.

[repsol rave 2,963]

as much as this is indeed nazi logic, sadly the majority of it is true.

if we would ever get in the time that we as a kind get enslaved by the ponies, we would be considered evil if we fight back.

since everything that fights back is the enemy, and the enemy is allways the evil one.

kinda sad actually...

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

So stories are so full unfortunate implications that their TVtropes page as been locked due to the edit wars and flaming against them. It's disturbing to imagine what she must have gone though to think humanity as a whole so fully evil and irredeemable. 

 

Not to mention that behavior goes against the everything we've seen of Celestia and how she leads. From whatever I've read everyone behaves in such a way that they might as well be some random alien species that just happens to look like the ponies.

 

Hell, the original author gave up the story because he though he had gone to far(he only sought to pose a theory on where the humans went in this universe)

Edited August 25, 2013 by Shoboni

[Sugar Pea 2,682]

Wait wait wait wait....wait....Rush, this isn't my Batman glass. *holds up water*

Naw, but i'm honestly confused here...I doubt horses are capable of enslaving humans...O.o

[Bendy 1,821]

Wait wait wait wait....wait....Rush, this isn't my Batman glass. *holds up water*

 

Naw, but i'm honestly confused here...I doubt horses are capable of enslaving humans...O.o

 

 

Xenolestia is. She is an all powerful goddess evil alter ego of Celestia from The Conversion Bureau fan fictions.

 

Non magical Humans without help from canon Ponies and a powerful canon Celestia would be doomed.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Rush

[Mr F 1,522]

nah we have guns so they could not enslave us.

They would not really profit from it either, we got the science.

(Fighting for fredoom and good is almost never wrong)

[Dsanders 5,748]

I think that's definitely a flawed quote right there. We humans have the rights to live, the rights to freedom, and the pursuit of happiness as a famous document has once said. We are all equal, and I believe that one fanfic("Conversion Bureau" I believe) has gotten the wrong idea there. Not all humans are evil, just as not all ponies are evil obviously, but we all have our flaws. Even the ponies are not perfect. Just look at the enemies and antagonists, and all the character flaws our favorite ponies have shown in the series. Humans are not perfect, and neither are the ponies. 

 

The "ponies are always right" principle is bullcrap and very hypocritical in my opinion.

[Erfl 3]

Could they possibly use magic to stop our technology & science? I could easily imagine something akin to an EMP blast or just a simple shield

[Commissar Alexer 763]

Could they possibly use magic to stop our technology & science? I could easily imagine something akin to an EMP blast or just a simple shield

Maybe. It's often believed that magic simply surpasses technology in every way, that Celestia could stop an 100 megaton A-bomb and such stuff.

 

Thing is, how are they going to prevent snipers killing all their precious unicorns since they are the only one who could use magic in such way. There is of course much more, after all we have 4000 years experience in warfare.

[Mywas 687]

Could they possibly use magic to stop our technology & science? I could easily imagine something akin to an EMP blast or just a simple shield

Not to mention a lot of humans have well build bodies and go to the gym. Hell I am pretty sure nowdays 14 Year old boys could beat up an adult pony. But since they have discord.....Curse you dues ex machima

[Bendy 1,821]

But since they have discord.....Curse you dues ex machima

 

 Discord is often is still stuck in stone, or merely doesn't pick a side in many TCB stories. Depends on what universe of the series.

[--Thunder Bolt-- 534]

There was an infamous quote from a fan fiction writer in our fandom with many of the stories involving around the theme. That went something along these line likes below.

 

"The Ponies as a truly superior species can do whatever it wants to a lesser species like Humans, and if said lesser species did the same thing did back to them, then they would be evil."

 

Meaning a superior species can enslave or commit genocide on your species and maintain the moral high ground no matter what, and if said species resists, then they are evil.

 

What? So Humanity is evil for not wanting to be enslaved or destroyed? Like what if another all powerful species used this same stupid logic to the Ponies? But if the Ponies fight back, then they are evil for resisting them?

 

It's just hypocrisy in my opinion. 

 

It isn't just Nazi "logic."  It's the "logic" behind pretty much every atrocity committed by the human species.  And the core premise in this case, that the ponies are inherently superior to us?  I'm not buying it.  David Brin offers an excellent rebuttal to this sort of thinking in the latest post on his blog:

 

Here I'd like to challenge readers to try a little experiment, one that is sure to chip at the stylish cynicism we absorb from both media and our own sanctimonious egotism.  Are you honest and willing to reconsider?  Most people who do as I recommend (below) come away at least a bit inspired, less sure that their fellow citizens are complete sheep, and possibly stoked with just a little more confidence that we can do it - cross the next 50 years of minefields and quicksand pits, so that our children will get to something better. 

 

For starters, have you heard one of the oldest arguments for cynicism? Some variant on:

 

“A cynic is an optimist who has snapped out of it and realized how awful people are.”

 

Yep, it's one of the great smug-cliches of all time. And I can only respond with --

 

”What is a cynic who snaps out of it even FARTHER? Enough to realize that, despite the gruesomely stupid, self-delusional and abysmally corrupt aspects of human nature... things are getting phenomenally better? And have been for quite some time?

 

I mean, which is more amazing? That the Enlightenment is under threat from a collusive cabal of conniving aristocrats, imperialists and extremist nutjobs? Or the fact that this routine and utterly predictable alliance, which ruled every other urban culture for 4,000 years has been staved off repeatedly, till now, by a republic -- and a macro-civilization -- that has kept combining redesign and renewal and revolution with an almost infinite capacity for resilience in the face of repetitious human nature?

 

So here is Brin’s Exercise... I command you to go forth and do this!

 

Go to a street corner, preferably one with a very busy four-way -- or eight or twelve (via multiple lanes) -- traffic not controlled by electronic lights, but simple stop-signs -- where people and cars and bicycles must balance traffic rules every second, negotiating  right-of-way and movement with quick eye contact, lazy little hand-flicks and brief nods. Watch for a while until it all sinks in. Allow yourself to be amazed at how easy it seems. How relaxed and bored everyone is, with this libertarian miracle of self-regulation.

 

Yes, if you stand there long enough, you'll spot someone doing something stupid or rude. Fine. Tally it up. Get a ratio.

 

Then do a slow 360. Notice all the other things that are working! The quiet and efficient courtesies, the technologies, the tiny acts of honesty and cooperation. That person over there could have stolen from that shop, but didn't. Those telephone lines and power cables have been working, nonstop, for at least a decade... and so on. Parse it smaller and smaller.

 

Notice all the hidden competence of a myriad professionals that make all the switches turn on time and fill the restaurants with food. Do not let a patch of one square degree pass your view without comment, or noticing something that you took for granted! If you finish the turn having counted less than a hundred bona fide miracles, start over!  Better yet, ponder what any of your ancestors would have seen, doing a similar slow turn, at any point across the last 6000 years.

 

People accuse me of being a flaming optimist, because I have a naively positive view of human nature.  How absurd! No, friend. I am a flaming optimist because I understand just how wretched human nature is! I am uniquely qualified, as a student of all sciences, of history... and a licensed professional alternate world builder in the mighty genre of Speculative History (also clled science fiction)... and a person whose third and fourth cousins were all murdered by unprecedented rationalization and unspeakable human savagery...

 

... as one who awakens every morning surprised that Cossacks have not yet burned my home, taken my wife and kids, burnt me at a stake and ruined my proud civilization.

 

Not yet.

 

Hence the ferocity of my optimism, oh my friends and co-rebels against any chance that the bad old days might return. (A possibility that I portrayed in The Postman.) Hence my deep and abiding disdain for cynicism. Because it isn’t helpful. And if it isn’t helpful in this fight, I have no time for it.

 

We have one hope. The Modernist Agenda -- combined with a little faith. It’s a program that’s worked so far. Indeed, we cannot properly fight for it without conceding -- indeed, AVOWING! -- that it has worked. Fantastically. Epochally. Better than any other program for living and working together ever devised.  Because no other system even tried to eliminate racism, sexism, feudalism and every other noxious ism that limited human potential.

 

== Must I also like... my neighbors? ==

 

Like everyone else, I am drawn to cynical contempt-for-the-masses around me. Masses who seem so dimwitted... who support imbecile politicians... who don’t know where Rwanda is or what happened there... who actually think we are at “war”... who raise such dopey, X-Box-addicted brats...

 

...only then I do the exercise. I go to that street corner and start turning. And every time I finish one of those 360 degree rotations, noticing the myriad marvels all around me, the incredible courtesy and skill and competence that it takes to (ironically) make a civilization that is proof against the individual incompetence of countless fools...

 

... I find myself forced to make a concession. To grasp that (as the best scientists say)... I might be wrong.

 

And that is when I mutter, grudgingly --

 

”My neighbors simply... cannot be as stupid as they look.”

 

Yes, they look stupid. I am sure yours do, too. Perhaps, as individuals, they are. But when they are taken together, combined, made free to interact under rules that encourage decent cooperation and competition, something happens. Together, we get smarter than we ever deserved to be.

 

It is called an Emergent Property. And, friends, you live in comfort and wallow in information and freedom because of it. Moreover, the shortsighted dogmatists who hate complexity have no idea what it is that they are prescribing, when they offer their simplifying nostrums:

 

"All government is vile, all the time," or -

 

"All competitive capitalism is vile, all the time," or -

 

"Anything western or american is automatically better," 

 

...or the recently more pervasive poison see in nearly all Hollywood films:

 

"Anything western or american is automatically evil and disgusting, without any redeeming properties!"

 

Pay no attention to the simplistic prescribers of right or left.  What they are offering is to take it away -- all the marvelous complexity -- and replace this marvel with rule by philosopher kings. By platonist prescribers of left, right, libertarian or religious or weird. Dig deep and it's all the same thing. Dolts and ingrates who despise while wallowing in the fruits of the very civilization they hate. Who would end the complexity in favor of a theory. Who would kill the goose that gives a flood of golden eggs.

 

Oh, yes, some of our neighbors are fools, after all.

 

 

[Commissar Alexer 763]

But since they have discord.....Curse you dues ex machima

 

I think Discord would rather help us. Think about it, the ponies turned him for a long time into a stone statue therefore he would want to take revenge on the ponies.

 

Also, if not for revenge then alone for the internet he would try to help us.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Gefreiter

[Mywas 687]

I think Discord would rather help us. Think about it, the ponies turned him for a long time into a stone statue therefore he would want to take revenge on the ponies.

 

Also, if not for revenge then alone for the internet he would try to help us.

To be fair if he joined us The politics might make a deal with him by letting him do choas but without harming or controlling anyone. And no one would mind his choas seeing how we have worst things to worry about

[Commissar Alexer 763]

To be fair if he joined us The politics might make a deal with him by letting him do choas but without harming or controlling anyone. And no one would mind his choas seeing how we have worst things to worry about

 

Give him a computer and internet connection and i guarantee you, you will keep this guy forever happy. The internet would be for him like heaven on earth. No doubt, he will love it.

[Cwanky 17,602]

So let's just get the record out there for our oh so perfect Equestrian pony world that so many writers and fans love to defend. And I am sure there will be at least one person that will try to defend these actions the ponies did, which is fine since we're all entitled to our opinions, but I'll raise them nonetheless.

 

So was it not wrong that...

 

- The ponies as shown in Hearth's Warming Eve willingly segregated themselves, basically treated Earth ponies like feudal peasants and slaves for food and manual labor, while the unicorns lived as royalty and got rich and elitist? Also the pegasi were pretty proud and elitist too being aggressive militant bullies. All 3 of the races were strongly racially divided and despised each other. In fact you could say that sentiment still persists to some degree

- The fact that outsiders like Zecora are stereotyped as dangerous and evil when they know next to little about her and don't bother to reach out until the Mane 6 come along?

- The fact that Canterlot is effectively an elitist wealthy society that tends to look down upon common ponyfolks

- The fact that ponies have had at least several major disputes with other inhabitants like the buffalo

- The fact that Equestrian society was nearly destroyed by inner conflicts from the diarchy itself with Nightmare Moon

- The fact that Equestria is effectively a monarchy, no matter how benevolent or ideal it may seem

- The fact that ponies denegrate "half breeds" like mules as slow witted, ugly and deplorable

- The fact that sentient cattle and sheep are herded and treated more as property and seemingly have limited representation and rights

- The fact that ponies in general have had a tendency to look down or conflict with other peaceful intelligent races

- The fact that power mongers like King Sombra and Nightmare Moon exist

- The fact that Equestrian magic is just as abusable as any technology we have, as shown with Trixie and Sombra

- The fact that ironically the ponies tend to be caught up in their own bubble world and poorly understand the world outside

 

I could go on, but the point here is that authors give ponies waaaay more credit than they deserve. Even for a kids show that's meant to show us good things about Equestria, there's plenty of flaws that are made apparent to us as well. People really need to get over this "oh humanity sucks so bad I wanna go live in Equestria and be happy." This is the exact same kind of escapism phenomenon and attitude that pervaded after folks watched Avatar. Humanity is far from perfect but we have many notable people, achievements and times, like the Age of Enlightenment, the Roman Empire and Mesopotomia, and our World War II victory IN SPITE of the attrocities. For every Hitler, Nero, and Saddam, we've also had a Lincoln, Washington, Einstein, Aristotle, and Beethoven.

 

Appreciate the best of both worlds and remember, like it or not, this is still our home.

[notdog1996 315]

You know what?  Humans are as much hypocrites than the ponies are in your quote.  What happens when a man beats his own dog and then the dog bites him.  The dog is put to sleep.  So, he gets killed because he tried to defend himself from an abusive owner?  Do you see any logic here? I don't.  This is hypocrisy at its best.  Saying that other animals aren't sentient (for whatever that word is worth) is also very hypocritical.  They have feelings too.  I've seen a cat being depressed, I've seen rabbits being sad, I've seen dogs being jealous.  They aren't objects, they are living beings too, just like humans and just like ponies in the quote.  

 

I see no difference between humans now and the ponies in your quote, and I think it's really sad that someone would portray the ponies like this.  Fluttershy surely would be ashamed of this.

[Norman 177]

Everyone always says ponies are so much better then humans, but they aren't. The world is full of heroes who just haven't had their moment to shine. It's just that we humans tend to look at things the negative way. For example, during the Evacuation of Dunkirk in 1939 the Royal Navy didn't have enough ships to evacuate the entire British Expeditionary Force. So they called on all the fisherman and civilian seamen operating along the English Channel to assist in the evacuation. Hundreds of vessels responded to the call, and countless fishermen and civilian boat operators gave their lives to get soldiers out of France. Back on the shore in Dunkirk, the remnants of the French army acted as a rear-guard for the British Expeditionary Force. They sacrificed their lives for the sake of their British counterparts, and they fought down to the last man. But of course many only remember "evil Hitler invaded France and killed a lot of jews".