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S04:E08 - Rarity Takes Manehattan

S04:E08 - Rarity Takes Manehattan  

309 members have voted

  1. 1. Did you like it?

    • No, I hated it.
      9
    • Meh, it was okay.
      18
    • I liked it!
      84
    • I LOVED IT! <3
      198


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First off, don't put words in my mouth. I do NOT think she's stupid; I just don't think she's that kind of pony.

 

Because, well, she isn't. She's not going to be manipulative and use people, and, if she does, she at least has the decency to feel remorse about it, like, you know, she did in this episode; she felt bad for being awful to her friends and jetted out of the fashion show she would've won and enhanced her own career greatly by doing so, which, if she was the type of pony you're making her out to be, she wouldn't have done that :D She would've stayed in Manehattan and become a big name fashion designer, like she was so close to becoming in this episode had she not ran out at the last moment.

 

You also haven't done much to back up your opinions past stating them, dude, so of course I don't understand what you mean.

 

Because you haven't proved the point you're trying to make. You just said she used him, but you haven't done much else besides say that :D

So explain to me my point, please.

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So explain to me my point, please.

I just said I didn't understand your point because you have failed to prove anything past that you think Rarity is abusive of Spike.

 

So...how am I supposed to explain it to you? :blink:

Edited by ghostfacekiller39
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Coco Pommel was so adorable I became her.

 

Hello MLP Forums, I am your new most adorable pony.

BE QUITE AND BRING ME SOME COFFE

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I just said I didn't understand your point because you have failed to prove anything past that you think Rarity is abusive of Spike.

 

So...how am I supposed to explain it to you? :blink:

What is to prove? Watch the cartoon. What do you want me to do? It's basic about the two characters. Spike does things for Rarity because he likes her. Rarity is not stupid (right?), so she UNDERSTANDS this. She just lets him do it. My problem with this is that SHE LETS HIM DO STUFF FOR HER, even though HE'LL NEVER GET HIS IMAGINED "PRIZE". What do you want me to tell you? It's in almost every episode the two interact.

 

I think this is despicable. Maybe the problem is that you think I'm attacking Rarity. I'm not. I'm attacking (if that is even the right word) the writers for the show that use this as comedy. 

 

Now, if don't agree, and it's okay to you that Rarity does that, fine. But I don't like it. It doesn't fit her character, the way I see it.

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What is to prove? Watch the cartoon. What do you want me to do? It's basic about the two characters. Spike does things for Rarity because he likes her. Rarity is not stupid (right?), so she UNDERSTANDS this. She just lets him do it. My problem with this is that SHE LETS HIM DO STUFF FOR HER, even though HE'LL NEVER GET HIS IMAGINED "PRIZE". What do you want me to tell you? It's in almost every episode the two interact.

 

I think this is despicable. Maybe the problem is that you think I'm attacking Rarity. I'm not. I'm attacking (if that is even the right word) the writers for the show that use this as comedy. 

 

Now, if don't agree, and it's okay to you that Rarity does that, fine. But I don't like it. It doesn't fit her character, the way I see it.

I'm still having trouble piecing together what you're trying to say here about this subject, but I think I get the gist of it.

 

You don't like the way Rarity lets Spike do things for her, and you don't like the fact the unrequited love is being played up for laughs, correct? 

 

If so, just know that Rarity is doing the best she can, whether you see it or not.

 

You said it yourself; she knows how Spike feels. 

 

She also knows he likes helping her. He's even said that in the series before himself :D

 

She probably doesn't want to turn down his help because she knows he likes to do it, and she doesn't want him to feel rejected.

 

Yet, she also seems to like him, but no more than in a platonic sense; not like he likes her. She has to walk on eggshells on this subject, as to maintain a friendship whilst not hurting him. 

 

It's got to be hard to handle, dude. 

 

And the her histrionic, attention loving side doesn't make things much better for the whole, awkward, little baby dragon is madly in love with a full grown unicorn sort of thing.

 

Honestly, I don't think it was ever meant for much past laughs, but I think that you didn't take into consideration how hard it has to be to balance all of that, which, is only amplified and made much, MUCH more difficult by her flaws.

 

See what I'm saying? :D 

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lovely pisode, again with lots of faces to screencapture. Rarity's singing voice sounds very pleasant. Anything else basically has already been said on EQD followup etc

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I don't know what is worse. That you guys are pretending to not understand what I mean, or that you make Rarity be stupid enough to not understand what is going on.

I totally get what you're saying. And I'm saying I disagree with you. And I agree with ghostface that aside from tell us we're wrong and repeat your own position, you haven't really said anything. If you want to convince us that you're right, you need to do better than be confrontational about it. You're getting awfully close to being offensive here.

 

You are certainly welcome to disagree on whether Rarity is manipulative. That's your opinion. But we have our own interpretations of her character, and we apparently just don't agree with you.

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I'm still having trouble piecing together what you're trying to say here about this subject, but I think I get the gist of it.

 

You don't like the way Rarity lets Spike do things for her, and you don't like the fact the unrequited love is being played up for laughs, correct? 

 

If so, just know that Rarity is doing the best she can, whether you see it or not.

 

You said it yourself; she knows how Spike feels. 

 

She also knows he likes helping her. He's even said that in the series before himself :D

 

She probably doesn't want to turn down his help because she knows he likes to do it, and she doesn't want him to feel rejected.

 

Yet, she also seems to like him, but no more than in a platonic sense; not like he likes her. She has to walk on eggshells on this subject, as to maintain a friendship whilst not hurting him. 

 

It's got to be hard to handle, dude. 

 

And the her histrionic, attention loving side doesn't make things much better for the whole, awkward, little baby dragon is madly in love with a full grown unicorn sort of thing.

 

Honestly, I don't think it was ever meant for much past laughs, but I think that you didn't take into consideration how hard it has to be to balance all of that, which, is only amplified and made much, MUCH more difficult by her flaws.

 

See what I'm saying? :D

No. It's not that his love is not corresponded and not that she lets him do things for her, by itself. The problem is the combination of these things: he does things for her because he has these feelings, that won't go anywhere, while Rarity understands the reason why he does these things.

 

If Spike understood that this is not doing anything, that he is fawning over a pony that won't return these feelings for him, and still kept doing it, I wouldn't mind. The problem is that there is a big difference between what Rarity sees in all this and what Spike sees, and despite of that, Rarity doesn't seem to mind this problem and goes on to letting him do things for her and sometimes even asks things of him. At the very least, she is feeding his delusion, and I don't care if she feels anything other for Spike: It's not what Spike is looking for in her.

 

If it was another adult doing what Spike is doing, I would agree with you that he is a "p-word". As offensive to women as I think this is... Spike just doesn't know any better, because no one is telling him.

 

About her not wanting to hurt his feelings... This doesn't matter. He is going to get hurt one way or another, but it will be worse if she keeps... I don't want to say lying, but well... Feeding his delusion until he gets a reality check later on. You said that she is keeping a friendship, but she is not: friends don't this bullshit.

 

Finally, I agree that this was done just for laughs. But it's there. And that it was done "just for laughs" is also part of the problem: it hurts Rarity's character in my eyes. No matter how you put it, she IS getting stuff done. Her luggage is getting carried, her trash is getting thrown out, and she has a very handy pin cushion and an idiot to tell her how awesome she is.

 

Do you see what I'm saying?

Edited by moonlightavenger

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Overall, this episode was okay. The fashion show and the dresses aren't particularly interesting to me, but the conflicts set up are engaging enough, I suppose, even though I don't feel that all of them are satisfactorily resolved. I'll just go through the episode chronologically and point out my observations.

 

Personally, I'm really sick of the gag in which Rarity has a mountain of luggage, but rather than carrying it herself, she gets someone else to carry it instead. I never found that funny, and it only gets more irritating every time I see it.

 

Twilight says that "of course" the rest of the Mane Six would come along and support Rarity during fashion week, as though we shouldn't have any doubt that they would. Apparently none of them have any trouble getting a full week off from their jobs or princess duties or farm chores or whatnot.

 

Of course, Pinkie feels the need to interrupt Rarity and blather on with no end in sight. I like how Rarity just walks past and ignores her, although I think maybe Pinkie should be called out for such behavior once in a while.

 

What reason do we have to believe that Manehattan in particular is a place where people are generous and reciprocate nice behavior? Is there supposed to be something about the big city that makes Rarity and others want to act this way? The real-world stereotype of big cities is probably close to the opposite of this, and furthermore, we see cases later in the episode of Manehattanites being less than kind and generous, such as everyone upset about Rarity trying to cut the cab line, or the receptionist blowing Rarity off, speaking in a deadpan tone, and not even looking at her when they're talking to each other.

 

I didn't particularly like the song. It seemed overblown and a bit out-of-character for Rarity to be giddily running around the city, doing generous deeds left and right and being the "smile patrol." Also, who is it exactly that's telling Rarity not to be so big-hearted and bold, and not to treat strangers like friends because this city's too big and cold?

 

When Rarity forgets her dresses, the bell hop for the hotel runs them over to the plaza for her. Was the bell hop off-duty, or did he desert his post to do this special favor for just one of the hotel's clients? How long was he gone, and how far away is the plaza supposed to be from the hotel? How did the bell hop get the dresses over there? Did he run down the sidewalk with the wheeled rack in the rain?

 

Rarity's actions with Suri before the competition are baffling and quite careless. Why would Rarity show her dresses to her competitor in the fashion show, especially if the participants are apparently allowed to modify their dresses right up to the last minute? When Suri asks to take a swatch of Rarity's fabric to use for accents, why does Rarity give her an entire bolt of it? It's massive overkill and not even close to what Suri asked for. If Rarity insists on letting Suri use some of her one-of-a-kind fabric that she's spent months developing, why didn't Rarity, say, ask for acknowledgement of her special fabric when Suri's dresses are shown?

 

Of course, the rest of the Mane Six find themselves slaving away on Rarity's new dresses apparently almost non-stop for many hours. It could be argued that Twilight and company were asking for it when they made a statement like "Now Rarity, whatever went wrong, we're all here to help you get through it, no matter what it takes!" If that's the case, maybe one of the morals of this episode should be not to make vague and broad promises of help that could be interpreted to mean something more than you intended.

 

So Rarity got the material for her new line from the hotel's property (curtains, bedding, etc.)? Is it likely that the hotel would give permission to permanently take the material for making into dresses, even if Rarity compensated them for it? If it's good enough for Rarity to make into dresses for a competition (and win with them), the material is probably fairly expensive, and might even be made specifically for the hotel, in which case the hotel wouldn't be willing to part with it so easily. Also, one of the dresses involved a bunch of room keys (at least nine), so Rarity must have either worked something out with a hotel staff member or gone around and collected room keys from guests.

 

I'm confused about the timeline of events and who was where and when for the fashion show and the aftermath. After Rarity bursts out of the show and runs over to the hotel, the bell hop says her friends headed out this morning. Shortly after that (when it's raining) a clock shows the time as 4:10 or so. Later, Twilight says she and the rest of the Mane Six missed the show because they overslept. How is it that they overslept, but the bell hop saw them leaving that morning, when the show was apparently in the afternoon?

 

Moreover, when did Rarity arrange for a special showing of "Hinny of the Hills"? Is the scene where Rarity talks to the receptionist and the rest of the Mane Six burst in supposed to take place the next day? If so, how did Rarity not see her friends at any time after the fashion show before that point? Where were the rest of the Mane Six supposed to be all that time?

 

The actress in the musical is shown with a crude and obvious support rope. So the super-famous, best musical in all of Equestria doesn't have a better, less visible way to support an actress in the air?

 

Doesn't it seem a little odd that Coco, who was working for Suri, was allowed to claim the prize for Rarity in her absence? What are the rules about who can claim the prize as a stand-in for the actual winner? Did no one have any issue with someone who worked for one competitor claiming the prize for a different competitor?

 

Rarity "gives" her job of making all the costumes for her costume designer friend's next show to Coco, but I would think that should really be the costume designer's decision to make, not just Rarity's. It was an ENORMOUS favor to Rarity to get the theater, actors/actresses, musicians, and ALL of the supporting crew to put on an exclusive show for just seven ponies on such short notice. It's still baffling to me how a costume designer could even pull all that off, even if he/she really wanted to. Consequently, the costume designer might have been willing to do such a huge favor because he/she really likes Rarity's work, and so he/she may not be happy with someone else. Also, was Rarity going to get paid for making all the costumes, or would she be doing it for free in exchange for the gigantic favor of putting on the exclusive show? If the plan wasn't for Rarity to get paid, would the costume designer and the higher-ups really be happy with substituting Rarity for someone else who probably would want payment (since Coco has to make a living)?

 

Finally, the moral about how even though there are people who will take advantage of your generosity, you shouldn't use that as an excuse to take advantage of your friends is all well and good, but that moral only covers part of the story of this episode. Did Rarity learn anything about how not to be taken advantage of (especially by those who aren't her close friends), or how to react when such a situation arises? Did Rarity do anything to set the record straight about how the fabric and designs Suri used for her dresses actually are Rarity's? It's unsatisfying that these issues were never really resolved on-screen.

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Hey is it me or did I saw the Twin Towers in the scene where Rarity is on the boat?  Or am I going nuts?

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10r61i8.jpg 11ugvae.jpg

 

GUYS IS IT JUST ME OR DOES THIS PONY HAVE A GRUMPY CAT CUTIE MARK???

 

AM I THE ONLY ONE FREAKING OUT A LITTLE?

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this line: 'I know. Ponies just bursting into song in random places at the drop of a hat? Who does that?' is one of the main reasons i love the show , they execute that so well each of the episode with songs that Bronies  eagerly anticipate it happening, it almost like the writers know that and they teased us.

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Hey is it me or did I saw the Twin Towers in the scene where Rarity is on the boat?  Or am I going nuts?

Your are gong nuts my friend

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This episode is a really really good defense for Rarity's character and element.

Loved it.

Also, i think that fade out on the rainbow thread confirms that all these zoomed endings are foreshadowing for the finale, or at least the keys.
Everyone will get something.

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Also, i think that fade out on the rainbow thread confirms that all these zoomed endings are foreshadowing for the finale, or at least the keys.

Everyone will get something.

I dunno, I'm not convinced that the rainbow spool is foreshadowing. It seems to me that it could just be a nice little keepsake and a nice memory of the good time she ended up having in Manehattan, nothing more. But they have been doing these cliffhanger endings enough that one does have to wonder...

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I totally get what you're saying. And I'm saying I disagree with you. And I agree with ghostface that aside from tell us we're wrong and repeat your own position, you haven't really said anything. If you want to convince us that you're right, you need to do better than be confrontational about it. You're getting awfully close to being offensive here.

 

You are certainly welcome to disagree on whether Rarity is manipulative. That's your opinion. But we have our own interpretations of her character, and we apparently just don't agree with you.

Alright them. It's about opinions. You know what? I'm sorry. I just can't wrap my head around the notion that it's okay to keep someone deluded while getting favors because of this person's delusion. To me, it just screams complete lack of respect and it's vile because people are even saying that Rarity does it because she likes Spike. And I can't see how can someone be of the opinion that it's perfectly fine for a main character in a light cartoon about friendship to be doing that.
 
Either that or I'm failing to get my point across in such an epic way that I should get a trophy for it and then do the world a favor, retreating to my utter imbecility and never speaking to anyone ever again.
 
Either way, I really just don't care if I'm the only one here that thinks this is an issue.

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Alright them. It's about opinions. You know what? I'm sorry. I just can't wrap my head around the notion that it's okay to keep someone deluded while getting favors because of this person's delusion. To me, it just screams complete lack of respect and it's vile because people are even saying that Rarity does it because she likes Spike. And I can't see how can someone be of the opinion that it's perfectly fine for a main character in a light cartoon about friendship to be doing that.
 
Either that or I'm failing to get my point across in such an epic way that I should get a trophy for it and then do the world a favor, retreating to my utter imbecility and never speaking to anyone ever again.
 
Either way, I really just don't care if I'm the only one here that thinks this is an issue.

 

 

So, what I see you saying is that you firmly believe Rarity IS fully aware of Spike's feelings, she fully understands that they ARE romantic and that he sees himself as a romantic equal to her, and the she's deliberately taking advantage of this and stringing him along.  For the rest of my response, I'm going to assume that my restatement of your position is correct - if it's not, please take this response with a grain of salt and let me know where and how I've misunderstood you.

 

So, your position basically assumes one critical thing: That Rarity has become fully aware of Spike's feelings - their type, their extent, and their seriousness.  If we make that assumption, then yes, it stands to reason that she should have turned him down long ago and made it clear it would never work between them, and the fact that she hasn't done this would mean she was choosing to string him along.  And in the world where that assumption is correct, you would be right to be concerned about the message the studio is sending about that friendship.

 

But here's where we disagree: I don't think you're considering the possibility that Rarity doesn't actually understand the nature of Spike's feelings for her.  As I've been saying, I think the two are on totally different pages.  She is evidently older and more mature than him, and I believe she's shown on a number of occasions that she sees Spike as a little child, rather than a romantic peer. 

 

To put it in perspective, consider that I'm a 37-year-old man, and the 6-year-old girl that lives next door to me says she's got a crush on me and wants to marry me.  This is actually quite common in young kids who interact with non-family adults.  Now, I would be extremely unlikely to even SEE her expressions as romantic - I would just assume it was nothing more than "puppy love" and consider it cute.  I might humor the kid in some sort of playful way, but I CERTAINLY wouldn't take it seriously.  In my mind, there's no way she could be a romantic equal to me.  (Not to mention that in our society, doing anything more than that would likely be criminal.)

 

So the way I see it, it's quite likely that Rarity is in the same position with Spike.  While he sees himself as a romantic equal to Rarity, she likely does not see him in the same light.  And if you look at it from that point of view, the following additional possibilities appear, at least to me:

 

- Rarity is COMPLETELY unaware of Spike's feelings - she simply sees his eagerness to be around her as a desire to be helpful and useful, and as a desire for attention and validation.

- Rarity may be aware that Spike has a crush on her, but considers it "puppy love".  As such, she'd be inclined to play along a bit for the sake of, again, attention and validation.

 

In both of these cases, she doesn't see Spike's feelings as anything serious - perhaps she assumes what I might assume, that the kid will grow out of it eventually.  That also likely means that she doesn't understand how frustrating this is for Spike.  If, at some point, she realizes that Spike is more mature than she thinks he is, and that she actually understands how he really feels toward her, she will most certainly see their friendship in a different light, and then she'd have to decide whether to:

 

1: Tell Spike it wouldn't work between them, and make it clear she just wants to be friends,

2: Explore the relationship AS a romantic one, and let it really become one instead of an adult-child relationship, or

3: Choose to deliberately string him along (as you suggested).

 

So where you and I aren't connecting is in that initial assumption about what Rarity actually knows about Spike and his feelings.  I don't think she's as conscious of his feelings as you think she is - again, only one episode has actually come close to this point, but it never tipped over the edge to where you could really say they ARE romantic peers.  Even when she kisses him, one could reason it's still as an adult to a child, meant to be purely platonic and "cute", which again would contribute to Spike's frustration but NOT negatively impact Rarity's character.

 

Does that make more sense?

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Okay how many gems does rarity have like come on really 

Remember the Diamond Dogs episode where she can find probably a hundred fairly easily thanks to her spell? Not that far fetched honestly.

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what the hell this episode was shit  :eww:

 

I suppose there will always be someone who feels that way, but I'd be interested in knowing why you do.

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I suppose there will always be someone who feels that way, but I'd be interested in knowing why you do.

 

I would not be interested.  It is one thing to say that you did not enjoy an episode.  Nothing can please everyone.  But saying that an episode is "crap," or whatever, is just insulting to every person who worked hard to make it.  When people express views that way, I really do not care to hear more from them.

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Fantastic episode!

I'm not sure if I'm the only one with this opinion but I thought the songs sounded a lot like the Phil Collins songs from Tarzan.

 

Little disappointed that Coco Pommel wasn't going to Ponyville with Rarity. (I'm still hoping that we get another secondary character role like Spike but a pony)

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