The Darker Side of Equestrian Society

[deadprofile 1,123]

Ok, last night I finally watched Twilight Time....and one glaring thought came into my mind and stuck there like gooey marshmallow failing to cleanly come off it's cooking stick and ending up getting all over your fingers and everywhere else BUT your mouth (and/or the smore)....

 

First off, I am an anime fan....If not ponies, then anime. However, I am very picky about the anime I watch, and most of the MOST popular shows do not appeal to me for some reason or another. There are anime gems that are mostly unheard of in the general anime populous but these anime are good, and should be checked out. One of these lesser known anime I watched was From the New World. I think it came out early last year but I found it, watched it, and was enthralled with it so much that in order to understand everything (or at least attempt to), I marathoned the entire series back to back. Just to give you an idea on what it is in a nutshell....it's Brave New World(ish) in an anime format. 

 

That out of the way, onto Twilight Time. The school ponies....it's scary how easily blinded they are, and how quickly they follow the crowd. I thought Equestria's society bases itself on individuality!?!? Here in Twilight Time, there is everything BUT individuality in that group of school ponies. I am not sure how to word this, but watching it made me really think of From the New World and I don't want to spoil anything of that anime....because it's an amazing look at the path that humanity is taking...in such an eerily negative way.

 

The ponies of Ponyville, not just at the school, have shown that their individuality really does not matter in the grand scheme of the society they live in. It give them predetermined roles that their talent/traits fall into in the way of majority. Similar to how back in the day in some cultures, if a child seems very inclined with their studies, mechanical skills, or strength, they would taken apart, having their talents built upon, and then join the mass of other people with similar training/talent to do the job that requires said skills (basically an apprentice program). There is not so much individuality there as there is honing talents and skills to be useful in the society they live in, and those that do not possess such talent early on become grunt workers in the lower classes of society, in short, are everybody else.  In that context, there is not much, if any, individuality in the society we live in.  Today, we take it upon ourselves to hone in on our skills and talents by going to college/vocational training of some kind in what we choose is the best path for us, not having others (for the most part), tell us who we are going to be when the education system is said and done with us. We are to find the teachers in which we are to learn under once out of mainstream education (K-12 system in USA) where all people, no matter what your talents/interests may be, are taught in systematic way where no individuality exists. Life beyond High School graduation is only way to get expand our horizons fully and find out what makes us unique to ourselves and not only learn more/dig into our interests and talents, but also find like-minded people who become long term friends throughout our adult life.  Most of your high school friends will be largely forgotten about except for memories, few carry their HS friends beyond the college years. I'm getting off track....

Equestria is very much convoluting the message it presents as to how individuality is cherished in their society. Which takes me back to the aforementioned anime and book. Is it just a veil? A farce to those living within that society? Equestria SEEMS to project individuality as a cornerstone for their overarching society, but with the way the ponies act, especially the younger ones in this latest episode, it a blindness that they show that just tells me that they have been/are being controlled by underlying factors that make society run like predictable clockwork for those in power, without any threat from the inside that will break the foundation of said controlled society due to power and greed, and those in power carry the strong mask of "individuality is the cornerstone of society" when really its a way to blind everyone into thinking who they are and what their talents are really matter...when in actuality they don't. Wow, I'm now comparing all this to V for Vendetta now...

 

OR Twilight Time just uses the ponies of the town as a massive plot device, just as they do in all the other episodes where the townfolk are largely involved....but it doesn't hurt anyone to be a bit conspirative....keeps the grey matter working, you know what I mean?

[ghostfacekiller39 23,879]

Huh. I always thought it was special talents, not pre-determined roles.

 

Like, destiny; except I've always believed one has control over their own destiny.

 

Just because someone has a natural, given talent at something doesn't make it their destiny. It just means that they're skilled at something.

 

Apple Bloom, for example; dude, like, totes. 

 

She's an apple; they're all Apples to the core, even their cutie marks are Apples.

 

She's displayed interests in a variety of things, though; she's also displayed knack for interior design. Maybe that could be her cutie mark? Who knows.

 

Eh. I don't believe in pre-determined roles in the show simply because I think ones choices and actions are what decide their destiny, not some supernatural force saying "He's gonna do that, and she's gonna do this..."

[Castle Bleck 19,451]

Could be a loop: their destinies could be predetermined, but only what they're interested in naturally.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Anti-Villain

[deadprofile 1,123]

Huh. I always thought it was special talents, not pre-determined roles.

 

Like, destiny; except I've always believed one has control over their own destiny.

 

Just because someone has a natural, given talent at something doesn't make it their destiny. It just means that they're skilled at something.

 

Apple Bloom, for example; dude, like, totes. 

 

She's an apple; they're all Apples to the core, even their cutie marks are Apples.

 

She's displayed interests in a variety of things, though; she's also displayed knack for interior design. Maybe that could be her cutie mark? Who knows.

 

Eh. I don't believe in pre-determined roles in the show simply because I think ones choices and actions are what decide their destiny, not some supernatural force saying "He's gonna do that, and she's gonna do this..."

 

I do not mean pre-determined in lieu of their talents and where their place is in a particular group of ponies that are a part of their everyday life. At that level, IRL, then you can say we humans have the same importance placed upon our talents and interests because those around us put value upon them and thus within our people-circle, we are individual. I am talking about society as a whole, pre-determined roles as a societal structure. Ones personal "destiny' is too narrow minded in the thoughts I am trying to convey. Cutie Marks are the tiny spices within this whole "Apple Pie" of a thought.

[FatPat 77]

This is just my take, but I think what's happening is that Equestria is trying to avoid turning into a communistic type of society. It looks like the natural thing for the ponies to do would be they discover their cutie mark, and then they have to fall into society based on their talent. For example, a pony is talented at cooking so she has to get a job cooking. And yes that would take away any sense of individuality to have every pony defined by their talent. The way Equestria handles it is instead of "has to" they "can." They allow the citizens to live their lives how they wish to.

 

Pinkie Pie is one of our only examples of this. Her talent is throwing parties, but she doesn't do it as a job, more like her favorite hobby. Instead she got a job working at a bakery. My guess is that ponies have the freedom to either embrace their #1 talent, or explore other fields. It certainly looks like it's the norm to get a job centered around your talent, but it's not forced on anypony.

 

Looking at the episode again, when all the kids were in her library Twilight wasn't forcing any of them to do anything. She was letting them pick which group they wanted to be in, and she even asked Pip what he wanted to learn about. My impression is that Equestria does value individuality, and they have built a society where ponies have the freedom to choose their own careers and goals in life.

[deadprofile 1,123]

This is just my take, but I think what's happening is that Equestria is trying to avoid turning into a communistic type of society. It looks like the natural thing for the ponies to do would be they discover their cutie mark, and then they have to fall into society based on their talent. For example, a pony is talented at cooking so she has to get a job cooking. And yes that would take away any sense of individuality to have every pony defined by their talent. The way Equestria handles it is instead of "has to" they "can." They allow the citizens to live their lives how they wish to.

 

Pinkie Pie is one of our only examples of this. Her talent is throwing parties, but she doesn't do it as a job, more like her favorite hobby. Instead she got a job working at a bakery. My guess is that ponies have the freedom to either embrace their #1 talent, or explore other fields. It certainly looks like it's the norm to get a job centered around your talent, but it's not forced on anypony.

 

Looking at the episode again, when all the kids were in her library Twilight wasn't forcing any of them to do anything. She was letting them pick which group they wanted to be in, and she even asked Pip what he wanted to learn about. My impression is that Equestria does value individuality, and they have built a society where ponies have the freedom to choose their own careers and goals in life.

 

I have watched it again....and again, the comparison I make is with From the New World, and the book, Brave New World.  It's hard to really show my point when I am sure many haven't read or seen either of those....I just find it strange that these came into my head while watch a show for little kids..........

One of the weirdest thoughts to have come out of the show thus far for me....but of course, again...it's obviously just a plot device, and nothing to do with governmental power, but it's just a theory...something to discombobulate the norm from time to time on this forum when it comes to show discussion  

[Scootalove 10,692]

I think it's just a plot device, but there are always theories surrounding this to see if there is anything tying the show to the norms of a society.

[Orablanco Account 3,708]

Everyone is secretly racist as crap. It seems most of the unicorns look down on everyone else, the pegasus capital is built so that no one else can visit, Pinkie didn't even know griffins were a thing, no one bothered to find anything out about dragons and their culture, the Appaloosians built their orchard willy-nilly without checking to see if the buffaloes were using that land first, and they treated Zecora is if she was a crazy witchdoctor who was going to swallow their souls based entirely on the fact that she's a zebra.

[Denim&Venöm 20,472]

Maybe being built on individuality is the problem. Those fillies in the school haven't found their uniqueness, the thing that makes them special, they are blank slates. So in order to feel special, to leave a mark on said blank slates, they follow the leader, the special one, in order to be like them. They want to be individuals, individuals like the rich, famous and powerful.

 

It's like kids today, saying that when they grow up, they want to be the president. This one kid doesn't want to be a firefighter. This one kid doesn't want to be an astronaut. That other kid doesn't want to be a landscape artist. All of them individually choose to follow the same path, like a herd. That's exactly how those ponies were acting. Like a herd, each one choosing the same path, independent of those around them and the society they are in, but ending up choosing the same as the rest nevertheless.   

[SilverStarApple 850]

Well, think about it.

 

An all-powerful winged horned god-man is living in your town, with powerful magic and knowledge of just about everything.

 

Wouldn't you want someone that great as your tutor?

 

Also, BUGGER, I was just about to write a fanfic where Twilight becomes a tutor and things go horribly/hilariously wrong.(But I was gonna take it in a different direction.)

[deadprofile 1,123]

Maybe being built on individuality is the problem. Those fillies in the school haven't found their uniqueness, the thing that makes them special, they are blank slates. So in order to feel special, to leave a mark on said blank slates, they follow the leader, the special one, in order to be like them. They want to be individuals, individuals like the rich, famous and powerful.

That doesn't quite hold up because almost all the other fillies already have their cutie marks, and thus know their special talents.

 

 

Well, think about it.

 

An all-powerful winged horned god-man is living in your town, with powerful magic and knowledge of just about everything.

 

Wouldn't you want someone that great as your tutor?

 

But, Twilight has been living there for a while already, so the whole town knows of her alicorn ascension.  Not all kids are shy as can be either, other fillies/colts would have already asked if she could be their tutor.  Plus Twilight is well known as a kindhearted pony, so no one would be scared of her after she became a princess. The way the rest of the class reacted was out of line with the established characters.

 

@CITRUS KING46 That is a very good point! It also seems like the mainstream Equestrian Ponies don't know or really care about races outside themselves, and are thus more defensive and closed-minded over them.

I can understand how Pinkie didn't know about Griffins but RD did because Griffins are flying creatures and thus are more likely to have contact with pegasi (who probably told them about the Equestrian Games)....

Buffalo also seem secluded to that dessert area where Apploosa was established. By the way the story is presented, Apploosa is far from other pony civilization, and are in an area where native Buffalo only roam (lol) during their traditional stampede, and also seem to live far from Apploosa. Thus, it's also understandable that after only a year of settling, the Apploosans still didn't know about the Buffalo, learned about the Buffalo solely through their experience with their...treenapping...and thus were too scared to confront them until the Mane 6 came into the scene.....

Zecora is from very far away and there probably has never been a zebra ever seen in Equestria before (a recorded sighting), so it's quite understandable that every pony would be scared. Only Twilight wasn't because she's a book worm, and through her studies learned about their existence, whereas most pony folk don't seem to be all encompassing readers (in terms of topics)....I mean, wouldn't YOU be freaked out IRL if idk....some BLUE person came up to you? Most people don't know that there are real blue people in the world (it's a genetic problem, a condition called methemoglobinemia).  But if you didn't know that, you'd be a bit freaked out....

Overall, they don't seem to be racist as much as they are ignorant and easily scared (I mean, bunnies? really?)....

 

Their lack of knowledge has led them to be unintentionally closed-minded, which seems to come off as racism (whereas IRL racism, we know these different people are people, but we choose to hate them for ungrounded reasoning) but really it's just their lack of knowledge....

[Vixor 80]

Everyone is secretly racist as crap. It seems most of the unicorns look down on everyone else, the pegasus capital is built so that no one else can visit, Pinkie didn't even know griffins were a thing, no one bothered to find anything out about dragons and their culture, the Appaloosians built their orchard willy-nilly without checking to see if the buffaloes were using that land first, and they treated Zecora is if she was a crazy witchdoctor who was going to swallow their souls based entirely on the fact that she's a zebra.

To be fair, the ponies were afraid of Zecora because she was mysterious to them. I'd say that's more like xenophobia, rather than racism.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Vixor

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,676]

The fact that these were all fillies and colts makes me brush off the idea that there has been any brainwashing. For one thing, it's easy for people in general to lose their individuality to the crowd. Heck, this instinct can even override the instinct of self-preservation! Crowd behavior is something that's been studied for a long time and authors I can name include Gustave Le Bon, Sigmund Freud and Edward Bernays. Those are just the ones I can name. Well, being aware of how the fervor of the crowd can make even the most sensible of person lose him/herself in the moment can help a person to guard against it.

 

So yeah, it isn't anything strange that people can lose their individuality and go into a frenzy like that. That and it seems logical that the young minds are children are much more vulnerable to this than adults are.

[deadprofile 1,123]

The fact that these were all fillies and colts makes me brush off the idea that there has been any brainwashing. For one thing, it's easy for people in general to lose their individuality to the crowd. Heck, this instinct can even override the instinct of self-preservation! Crowd behavior is something that's been studied for a long time and authors I can name include Gustave Le Bon, Sigmund Freud and Edward Bernays. Those are just the ones I can name. Well, being aware of how the fervor of the crowd can make even the most sensible of person lose him/herself in the moment can help a person to guard against it.

 

So yeah, it isn't anything strange that people can lose their individuality and go into a frenzy like that. That and it seems logical that the young minds are children are much more vulnerable to this than adults are.

 

This problem has actually shown when the "Bystander affect" occurs. If something bad happens, there are times when witnessing crowds do nothing to help the victims...it's sickening to hear about. There are news articles about this occurring in real life. 

 

Yes, young minds are most likely to get swept up in crowd emotions, but looking at the series as a whole, the adults and the young ones act the same as far as crowds are concerned.....

As far as other crowd behaviour that is potentially seen with the Ponyville folk, what you say is easy to see. However, most crowd behaviour studies revolve around people who, for the most part, do not know one another at the individual level. Whereas, with the way Equestrian society does articulate its culture based on individuality, to the point to where, in the rural town of Ponyville, we can fully assume everypony knows everypony, at least on a name to name basis (which is on the individual level). This actually differentiates the crowd behaviour of Ponyville-ians to lets say, Canterlot or Manehatten residents. Community crowd behaviour actually justifies the town getting involved with singing numbers like from Winter Wrap Up or Magical Mystery Cure....and this is besides the point of the 4th wall-ness, plot driving excuse from the fact its an animated show....Communities are more apt to be more open to singing together, and more apt to willingly participate in community events as a whole community, even it's something that was thought up at the last moment. This kind of community in real life is rare to see in first world countries. What "community" means today is NOT what the communities I am talking about here in comparison; I am describing rural communities pre-Industrial Revolution....

 

Crowd behaviour of the Ponyville Community at large actually strengthens the logic of the residents involvement of the main plot as whole throughout the entire series (which is pretty cool to think about, since, you know, it doesn't have to considered "cartoon logic" anymore).

 

 

I am Really enjoying discussing this social philosophy induced thread!!

 

[ShadOBabe 19,028]

Someone might have mentioned it already. And it doesn't really address the whole point of your post.

But an alternate (but common) interpretation of cutiemarks is that what happens to you can actually affect what the cutiemark/talent will ultimately be. Like I read a tumblr blog called firestarterspitfire, and she once when back in time and accidentally altered events to where she never met her best friend, moved to a completely different city, and grew up to be a punk. This alternate version DID eventually become a Wonderbolt, but she was a jerk, a vandal, and was not the captain. And the two Spitfires had different cutiemarks.