Is Angst and Use Of Rape As a Plot Device Bad In Fanfiction?

[Hive King 1,998]

((not sure if this should go in debate pit or not, this is talking about fanfiction))

 

I was looking up angst fics because I enjoy reading them when I ran into this

This fandom has so many problems with consent and dealing with real issues. Like they want angst for the sake of angst and so someone can come in and make it better - magically! And WHEN WILL PEOPLE STOP USING RAPE AS A PLOT DEVICE? That's practically glorifying it.

 

I personally think that they are overreacting over fanfiction and that angst is fun to read for some people. As for use of rape as a plot device, people have used everything for a plot device, this is nothing new and it will not change

 

Any opinions on this?

[FoxyCryptid 4,328]

1)using something as a plot device isn't glorifying it when it's portrayed as monstrous and wrong.

 

2)That's not even a brony problem, flipping to CSI or Law and Order will demonstrate pretty quick that it's a writing crutch fiction creators in general have a problem with.  

Edited March 5, 2014 by Shoboni

[Bright Honor 2,448]

...what is making you ask these weird questions lately?

[I used to be a stranger 7,989]

This post has been redacted by the author.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Blue

[MLPForums Phanact 1,374]

I think using rape as a plot device in anything is bad o_o If you glorify it and make it seem okay to do, then it's abhorrent. If you use it very sensitively in order to deepen a characters back story and make it clear that it's a bad thing, then it's not really that bad.

 

I think a lot of fanfics use rape as a cheap shock value factor.

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Shoboni,

It wasn't talking about the brony fandom, it was the shipping in the Frozen fandom

[Moonlight 7,279]

Using rape as a plot device isn't glorifying it in the slightest. It's obviously a horrible, horrible act and most fanfictions that put rape into it realize how bad it is and explain in the story how much of a wrong act it really is. Practically anything can be used as a plot device and just because an illegal act is used as one, doesn't mean the author is condoning it in the slightest. I would prefer if the author would put down something like a trigger warning before reading the story that contains rape, but most stories seem to do that, thankfully. 

[Page.Turner 940]

It's not bad, no. Overused? Cliché? Annoying? Yes.

 

I personally despise angsty fan fictions (unless the angst is canon) because it basically encompasses 99.9% of all fan fictions; it has been so over done that I think people tend to forget you can have a good story and a good plot if your character wasn't molested or abused as a child (as some examples). Not everything has to be "deep".

 

I also have a problem with the improper representation of mental illnesses and such. The majority of "depressed" characters act in the stereotypical and incorrect state of a clinically depressed individual and are also incorrectly labelled because most of the time it's a different form of depression.

 

People also like to confuse mental illnesses a lot. Either by stating the wrong one or making someone with psychosis actually psychotic.

 

It's also really annoying when people glorify and romanticize things like mental illness and rape/general abuse. Basically with the, "Boo hoo, I am a victim! And while that does not invalidate my struggle, I'm going to use my problem as a crutch to get what I want, do what I want, and make people do everything for me. I can't do anything for myself because I am stupid, pathetic, and need 'true love' to help me! But at the same time I am a strong, independent person who doesn't need or want any help. By the way, have I described my hair using twenty words or more yet?"

 

It's just bad writing.

[Sugar Pea 2,681]

We do seem to have a ton of angst in our fictions...but rape is a definite NO WAY JOSE!

"Boo hoo, I am a victim! And while that does not invalidate my struggle, I'm going to use my problem as a crutch to get what I want, do what I want, and make people do everything for me. I can't do anything for myself because I am stupid, pathetic, and need 'true love' to help me! But at the same time I am a strong, independent person who doesn't need or want any help. By the way, have I described my hair using twenty words or more yet?"

 

It's just bad writing.

 This explains almost every OC fanfiction I have ever read...lol

Edited March 5, 2014 by HomuKitteh

[Something Floaty 1,333]

Rape is bad. I'd just like to make it clear that I am wholeheartedly against rape. 

 

However, depicting rape in any kind of fiction, fanfiction or otherwise, is not necessarily a bad thing. Much like other bad things, (murder, child molestation, torture, mayonnaise on hamburgers), no matter how much we all wish it could be otherwise, rape happens in real life. Fiction should not be limited due to the graphic or controversial nature of something. Literature should know no bounds.

[PlunderSteed 1,251]

The use of rape as a plot device is easily accessible to a writer with limited skills or experiences.  It's somewhat plausible, since countless millions of people are raped, and never tell anyone about it.  This can lend the protagonist a very convenient "I'm in pain, and nobody can see it" vibe that simply isn't possible if (for instance) their parents were killed.  Also, a whole hell of a lot more people experience rape, compared to how relatively few people have their parents/spouse murdered.  As a result, it has come to be something of a cliche...which is unfortunate, since there are a lot of real people out there with that exact same story.

[Hive King 1,998]

@,

Wow, one thread where we are in agreement 

Anyway, yes, these are more often than not used really badly, but what I'm saying is that they can be used correctly and that the people getting all sensitive about that are overreacting

[Page.Turner 940]

@,

Wow, one thread where we are in agreement 

Anyway, yes, these are more often than not used really badly, but what I'm saying is that they can be used correctly and that the people getting all sensitive about that are overreacting

I know, right!? XD While I don't agree with you a lot, it doesn't mean I hate you or anything

 

But yeah, there are fan fictions where the angst is GOOD and really well done, canon or not. They're kind of hard to find, but they exist! People seriously do need to calm their butts about fan fiction, just like I learned how to calm my butt down about rape jokes and have come to realize they aren't advocating rape culture XD

 

It's a darn story. A darn fake story.

[FoxyCryptid 4,328]

That makes this sound like the sex-and-relationship equivalent to Chandler's Law aka "When in doubt, have a man come through a door with a gun in his hand."

 

Pretty much, among "true crime" style shows(CSI, Law and Order, NCIS ect). and really low-rent drama(such as the shlock Lifetime puts out) it tends to be the go-to way of creating drama and easily making the "antagonist" into a monster the audience hates. It's also right up there with "dead parents" to make a dark and troubled backstory.  

Edited March 5, 2014 by Shoboni

[Something Floaty 1,333]

1)using something as a plot device isn't glorifying it when it's portrayed and monstrous and wrong.

 

2)That's not even a brony problem, flipping to CSI or Law and Order will demonstrate pretty quick that it's a writing crutch fiction creators in general have a problem with.  

 

To be fair, I don't think it's a "problem" with CSI or Law and Order. The entire premise of those shows is the investigation of violent crimes, of which rapes are a large percentage. It would be more odd if they didn't "fall back" on rape as a plot device. Now, if Star Trek or Fraiser or something tended to fall back on rape as a plot device, that might hint at a lack of original ideas, but as far as crime shows it makes sense. 

[Hive King 1,998]

@,

...Who are you and what have you done with Tinker Tunes xD? You were completely against me on those topics just a week ago. What brought the change along?

 

Anyway, the people who were complaining also went onto to go into a tangent about how abusive relationships were treated badly in fanfics and thus this makes them crappy plot devices. 

 

They are often used badly, but this does not make the device itself bad. It is the fault of the author if a device used badly, something these people don't understand. I would have discussed that there....except that when I made this same argument, people were going come at me bro and slapping me in the face with news about rape

Edited March 5, 2014 by Evil Dragon Master

[FoxyCryptid 4,328]

To be fair, I don't think it's a "problem" with CSI or Law and Order. The entire premise of those shows is the investigation of violent crimes, of which rapes are a large percentage. It would be more odd if they didn't "fall back" on rape as a plot device. Now, if Star Trek or Fraiser or something tended to fall back on rape as a plot device, that might hint at a lack of original ideas, but as far as crime shows it makes sense. 

 

All the way back to X-Files the "female hero is raped, almost raped or otherwise victimized" seems to be a common plot device.  

[Page.Turner 940]

@,

I had a good friend of mine change my mind Kind of one of those "heart to heart" chats. Just as they proved me wrong, I also proved them wrong that not every single brony is a woman hating, misogynistic, neck beard, friend-zoned loser

 

Anyway, I agree. Just because a certain plot device is often misconstrued, it doesn't make it a bad plot device. That's like saying, "Just because a lot of English speaking people use incorrect grammar and syntax, it obviously means the English language is stupid and anyone who uses English as their first language is also stupid"

[Hive King 1,998]

Found another lengthy quote from someone. They are talking about abusive relationships, but you get the point that they hate this plot device

I know everyone else has their own experiences, and I’m not everyone, but I’m still going to share this quick perspective not behind anon because I think it’s important to hopefully give some people some perspective of their own.

I was in an abusive relationship. Verbally, emotionally, and physically. It wasn’t good, and it wasn’t healthy, and it left many scars on me I’m still dealing with.

 

But while it was happening, did I want someone to notice and actually talk to me about it, help me get out? Yes.

Did that happen? No. I had to move away and spend years in therapy to even start to get over it.

But if someone had gotten me away from her, would I have been interested in them? In my personal experience, with who I am, probably not. But if I had, I know that wouldn’t have been a healthy attraction, either, that I would have clung to anyone who treated me differently than she had, and focused on them instead of myself.

Which would have been problematic because focusing on myself and building myself back up was exactly what I needed.

Seeing all these stories using abuse as a romantic devices personally bothers and hurts me. Even if the authors portray the abuse seriously and realistically, it’s still ultimately, in almost ever case, to achieve two people getting together, with one swooping in and saving the other. How is that not cheapening the whole experience? Treating it lightly? How does that illustrate an equal relationship in any way?

Not all stories and fanfiction are like this; it just seems like the majority are. They’re written for white knighting and drama, with barely any respect shown for how much time and work it takes to build oneself up before immediately turning to someone else to do it for them. I’ve seen some that relish in writing about abuse, be it physical, mental, emotional, and/or verbal, because they can’t wait to show how the “outside” person will react to it and fix everything. I think that, out of everything, bothers me the most.

Abuse is real. It is not romantic. It is not easily fixed. And as a victim of it, I personally do not appreciate this trend sweeping through the Elsanna fandom. If you want to write about it, which you have all the rights in the world to do so, please be respectful and informed, allowing for realistic healing and pain, and not use it just to satisfy a need for angst and heroics. 

 

Now then, this person has a good reason to dislike the plot device that is abuse, rape, etc. However, it is ultimately fiction and IMO, fiction can take liberties from real life

[Page.Turner 940]

All the way back to X-Files the "female hero is raped, almost raped or otherwise victimized" seems to be a common plot device.  

 

Depending on the specific show, a lot of crime shows actually base their episodes on real crimes that were committed. I think CSI is one of them, actually O:

[Ribbonfree 2,383]

Is it trite and in my opinion could you weave a heart wrenching storyline without something so obviously bad? Yes. But it's not inherently bad, if the author handles it well.

[Hive King 1,998]

@,

Funny you mention that, in a fandom that has incest(Elsanna from Frozen), they call out bronies on being gross for rubbing to ponies, when these people rub to incest

 

Tumblr, you never cease to amaze me. I have a love-hate relationship with it right now

[Something Floaty 1,333]

All the way back to X-Files the "female hero is raped, almost raped or otherwise victimized" seems to be a common plot device.  

 

TV shows have to constantly create conflict, angst, or danger in order to continue drawing viewers. In real life, 99.9% of NCIS Agents will go their entire careers without firing their sidearms at all, let alone being shot, nearly killed in an explosion, kidnapped, held hostage, having their families threatened by a cartel or a terrorist cell, or targeted by a serial killer. But in the show, these things have to happen with regularity, because no one will watch a show about a team of federal agents doing paperwork, drinking coffee, and then going home and watching TV until they fall asleep. 

 

There aren't that many different situations in which the writers of a show can put the main characters in danger: Rape, stabbing, shooting, bomb threats, kidnapping, infectious disease or chemical weapon, and otherwise threatening family members or friends, are pretty much the only situations they can offer to say "look, this main character is in danger or suffering!" It all depends on the show. With rare exceptions, this isn't going to happen in sitcoms or cartoons, but it is almost an inevitability in crime dramas and police procedural dramas because there are only so many episodes they can run before they have literally no other plausible situations in which to place the protagonists. 

 

 

 

EDIT: I would like to add for the record that CSI and it's two spinoffs are some of the worst shows that have ever lasted longer than a season on national television

Edited March 5, 2014 by Something Floaty

[FoxyCryptid 4,328]

Depending on the specific show, a lot of crime shows actually base their episodes on real crimes that were committed. I think CSI is one of them, actually O:

I really have no clue. I could see Law and Order being based on real cases: CSI: Not so much. 

 

TV shows have to constantly create conflict, angst, or danger in order to continue drawing viewers. In real life, 99.9% of NCIS Agents will go their entire careers without firing their sidearms at all, let alone being shot, nearly killed in an explosion, kidnapped, held hostage, having their families threatened by a cartel or a terrorist cell, or targeted by a serial killer. But in the show, these things have to happen with regularity, because no one will watch a show about a team of federal agents doing paperwork, drinking coffee, and then going home and watching TV until they fall asleep. 

 

There aren't that many different situations in which the writers of a show can put the main characters in danger: Rape, stabbing, shooting, bomb threats, kidnapping, infectious disease or chemical weapon, and otherwise threatening family members or friends, are pretty much the only situations they can offer to say "look, this main character is in danger or suffering!" It all depends on the show. With rare exceptions, this isn't going to happen in sitcoms or cartoons, but it is almost an inevitability in crime dramas and police procedural dramas because there are only so many episodes they can run before they have literally no other plausible situations in which to place the protagonists. 

 

and I never said that was bad. I was merely pointing it was a common plot device and in no way limited to one medium or genre.

@,

Funny you mention that, in a fandom that has incest(Elsanna from Frozen), they call out bronies on being gross for rubbing to ponies, when these people rub to incest

 

Tumblr, you never cease to amaze me. I have a love-hate relationship with it right now

 

I think I voiced that concern with Supernatural fans that were anti-bronies once(I still need to watch that show sometimes because I love that sort of demon/monster/whatever hunting shit. 

[Page.Turner 940]

@,

 

There is incest in EVERY fandom XD Especially animes >___> but still. Claiming one fandom is more "pure" than another is moot.

 

Tumblr is a place where you have to know where to go. If you find your niche and stick to it, you will be happy! Stay away from tags, use your Tumblr Savior, and just avoid every single social-justice blog. I have yet to find a social-justice blog that isn't elitist or preachy. XD

 

I just go to Tumblr for stupid text posts and Teen Wolf stuff.

I really have no clue. I could see Law and Order being based on real cases: CSI: Not so much. 

To be fair, don't quote me on it D: I don't know my crime shows very well (I don't watch them and I don't have cable XD) I'm probably thinking of the show Criminal Minds