Love and Tolerate: Time for a change.

[LightsCameraAction 100]

      So, the fandom has been around awhile now, and like all new fandoms, or new ways of doing things, it had to be built up on something. For the bronies, the fandom was built up largely with one thing in mind: Love and Tolerate. Well my friends, it is time to change. As most of you know, the term Love and Tolerate wasn't originally used by bronies, but was actually used by internet trolls throughout 4chan for a decent amount of time. The term was then taken to heart by bronies and has been used throughout the fandom ever since. This has had some good repercussions, but at the same time, it has made us a very easy target. I would like to compare the term Love and Tolerate to the Articles of Confederation of The United States.

 

      Little history lesson. The Articles of Confederation were formed to help bring a small amount of order to the U.S. during the Revolutionary War. This was the first constitution. But this constitution had issues. How did they solve it? They decided that as a nation, they would come together and figure out how to change these issues. After a few years of discussion, they came to a conclusion and eventually The Great Compromise was created, bringing the Federalists - people who supported change - and the Anti-Federalists - the people who supported the current ways - together.

 

      That is exactly what we as a fandom need to do. We need to fix the issues that this term brings to the fandom. The issues I see, for example are stuff like how people treat us. I am teased and made fun of all the time. Are you not tired of this? Personally, I am tired of being treated like a damn doormat! I believe, that if we take this term that we have written across our flags, and make into something bigger, and better, that maybe we will be treated differently. Whether that means just tweaking the words themselves, just tweaking the meaning, or even just a whole new term all together. We NEED to change.

 

      So my question for all of you is this: Do you think we need to change? If so, what are your ideas? I would love to hear some of them. And if you don't think we need to change, then explain why you feel this way. Thanks for reading.

[Ribbonfree 2,383]

'Change' is a moot point for something as fluid as a fandom. What unites everyone in all fandoms since the beginning of time is a common love for a series, and nothing else. As I've already stated many times in other threads prior to this, you can't ask people who consider themselves bronies to ascribe to some higher moral purpose or 'nation state' of Bronydom or whatever. They're here because they like the show. Who and what they are as people besides is totally natural, and you can't call out any aspect of this fandom because at the end of the day we're a diverse group of people who just happen to share one common interest. You are a person separate of being a brony, and whatever that person is, the only time that person is mocked as being a brony is when they are being a brony. If you can't separate the elements of rest of your life from your bronydom, that's honestly your problem.

 

EDIT: If you want to treat your bronydom with that much reverence, by all means. But the majority aren't going to ascribe to your ideal of the fandom, and you have to learn to live with that if you want to have a peaceful and happy time in this fandom.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Little Black Dress

[Stancet 689]

I agree with Little Black Dress, because trying to make an fandom organized does not sound the same as making a nation organized. I don't know what we could do to stop cyberbullying anyways unless we made an official protest to the government.

[LightsCameraAction 100]

I am not talking about changing every aspect of your life, and no, I won't lie and say you guys don't have a point, because I definitely see your side of the story as well, but my goal in this is to make the fandom better than it is now. Do I think I can single-handedly stop cyberbullying? Hell no. Do I think that I can help change a few minds about us? Well if I didn't I wouldn't have made this thread in the first place. My point is this fandom can be better for everyone in it with some small changes.

[11th Doctor Whooves 794]

I don't see that anything needs to change.  Love and tolerance is our thing, along with a love of the show.

 

If you have a problem being treated like a doormat, thats your problem, and not the fault of the fandoms core beliefs.  You can love and tolerate someone without them stepping all over you, you just need to be assertive.

[Ribbonfree 2,383]

The historical example you used didn't exactly hint at 'small changes'. The only change you know you can make is one to yourself, making yourself a paragon of what you feel the fandom should stand for. Your actions should speak for themselves, and people won't call you out like they do some of the disparate elements of the fandom. But asking others in the fandom to do anything at all is a crapshoot. Again, we are a diverse group of people. We don't all even like the show for the same reasons, so it's not like we're all one group that can be changed to follow one code of conduct or whatever.

[man dude man 555]

"Be the change you want to see"- reiterated Ghandi philosophy and ideology. If you want to stop being treated like a doormat, quit letting people walk on you. If you are tired of feeling powerless, strengthen yourself. I as a part of this community and an ambassador for "love", "support" and "friendship", will support you in any action you may choose to attack your problem but sadly this is a problem that surpasses just this fandom & community. People are hated because of race, religion, size, political beliefs, artistic expression, past times. I agree that nobody should be broken down for what they like, but some people face their own indifferent struggles in being a part of the fandom but that doesn't mean we share them as a whole. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, and I hope things look up. Just know we aren't a miltia, we are friends that express a common love and interest.

Edited March 18, 2014 by FlutterZ93

[Aerodynas 439]

As I always state before I post in threads such as this, forgive me if my opinion offends anyone for it is not meant to be in such manner.

Forgive me@@LightsCameraAction, in bringing this up in your thread as I know it strays from your topic matter. 

Throughout many threads I've passed over and observed that give personal opinions or ideas, I have come across the same matter that appears even here (again, forgive me if I am wrong in my observation). So, the original question and point of this discussion was this:

 

"So my question for all of you is this: Do you think we need to change? If so, what are your ideas? I would love to hear some of them. And if you don't think we need to change, then explain why you feel this way."

 

In no portion of this question does it ask for slicing and dicing of the opinion given originally. Never do I see someone posting a thread, asking for their ideas and opinions to be critiqued by what someone else may see as faults. This thread doesn't ask for an argument but rather asks for you (the reader) to answer the question given. As I said earlier, this isn't the first time I have seen it. Realize though, when you change the focus of a topic unto the person who started it rather than the topic itself, it can be view as a personal attack on that person's ideas. I may be wrong but is that term called "roasting" in a way?

I don't know...Anyways, sorry for the rant y'all.

[Ribbonfree 2,383]

As I always state before I post in threads such as this, forgive me if my opinion offends anyone for it is not meant to be in such manner.

Forgive me@@LightsCameraAction, in bringing this up in your thread as I know it strays from your topic matter. 

Throughout many threads I've passed over and observed that give personal opinions or ideas, I have come across the same matter that appears even here (again, forgive me if I am wrong in my observation). So, the original question and point of this discussion was this:

 

"So my question for all of you is this: Do you think we need to change? If so, what are your ideas? I would love to hear some of them. And if you don't think we need to change, then explain why you feel this way."

 

In no portion of this question does it ask for slicing and dicing of the opinion given originally. Never do I see someone posting a thread, asking for their ideas and opinions to be critiqued by what someone else may see as faults. This thread doesn't ask for an argument but rather asks for you (the reader) to answer the question given. As I said earlier, this isn't the first time I have seen it. Realize though, when you change the focus of a topic unto the person who started it rather than the topic itself, it can be view as a personal attack on that person's ideas. I may be wrong but is that term called "roasting" in a way?

I don't know...Anyways, sorry for the rant y'all.

 

I have no answer for the question given, and realistically I should have just abstained from answering at all, but whenever this sort of thread pops up I feel I have to state the things I've already stated, since I think my method of approaching the classic 'brony fandom conundrum' is a good alternative to the ones others keep positing. So am I 'roasting' the OP? Yes, in a manner, to be honest. I disagree with the core premise of what started this thread in the first place and I'm offering my reasons as to why as a form of constructive criticism.

[Aerodynas 439]

@,

I understand and I am aware of the issue you speak of but it is better to allow them their ideas without criticizing them..."Love and Tolerate" correct?

[Ribbonfree 2,383]

@,

I understand and I am aware of the issue you speak of but it is better to allow them their ideas without criticizing them..."Love and Tolerate" correct?

 

I'd rather people criticize me so I know where there might be holes and failings in my beliefs than hold their mouths and just pat me on the back. A true friend is the one that chews you out for messing up and then laughs afterwards, not the one that holds their tongue. Besides, I never told OP to not have his/her ideas. I even edited my original statement to say 'by all means, go ahead'. I just pointed out where his/her ideas might have fallen short, in my opinion.

[Aerodynas 439]

@,

As would I prefer criticism for the same reason. In such ways, something better would be constructed. However, I still stand on the fact of that was not what this person or others who simple ask a question are asking for.

Some folks are stubborn and others aren't. That's diversity. I wouldn't say that I was asking for you to hold your tongue nor would I say that I was addressing you directly. I saw the rest of your post In point, I am stating that there is a time and a place for everything. Disrupting an opinion that didn't go in asking for it seems unfair no matter how ridiculous it is.

[Ribbonfree 2,383]

@,

As would I prefer criticism for the same reason. In such ways, something better would be constructed. However, I still stand on the fact of that was not what this person or others who simple ask a question are asking for.

Some folks are stubborn and others aren't. That's diversity. I wouldn't say that I was asking for you to hold your tongue nor would I say that I was addressing you directly. I saw the rest of your post In point, I am stating that there is a time and a place for everything. Disrupting an opinion that didn't go in asking for it seems unfair no matter how ridiculous it is.

 

That's fair, of course, I might have been too heavy handed in just outright saying what I said. But I still stand by it.

[Aerodynas 439]

@,

Of course And I don't say I disagree with it. Sorry if offense was given.

I enjoyed this debate thou must be friended!!

[Zhortac 1,475]

I'm with Little Black Dress. Since I've been going seemingly toe to toe, with some assclown's mary sue OC, I've heard that "love and tolerate" as a defense by people who want to defend his OC. The crap he's done and doing with it, is disrespecting the show, the creator, and the fandom. He's taking a cannon character, and completely changing her character and personality, to fit some twisted fantasy of his, and that's wrong on every level. The people who are willing to follow in his twisted disillusion, wanna tell me I should "Love and tolerate. I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna sit back and let someone deface something I like so much, and disrespect something that someone worked very hard to create for people to enjoy.

 

Plus, in real life, "love and tolerance" only really helps in certain situations. If you're being treated like a doormat, or attacked, that's not going to help you at all. I don't really believe in that saying in those instances, but it doesn't mean I have to be violent either. I understand people want to believe in that saying, and it works in some cases, but you have to know when to draw the line.

[Ribbonfree 2,383]

I'm with Little Black Dress. Since I've been going seemingly toe to toe, with some assclown's mary sue OC, I've heard that "love and tolerate" as a defense by people who want to defend his OC. The crap he's done and doing with it, is disrespecting the show, the creator, and the fandom. He's taking a cannon character, and completely changing her character and personality, to fit some twisted fantasy of his, and that's wrong on every level. The people who are willing to follow in his twisted disillusion, wanna tell me I should "Love and tolerate. I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna sit back and let someone deface something I like so much, and disrespect something that someone worked very hard to create for people to enjoy.

 

Plus, in real life, "love and tolerance" only really helps in certain situations. If you're being treated like a doormat, or attacked, that's not going to help you at all. I don't really believe in that saying in those instances, but it doesn't mean I have to be violent either. I understand people want to believe in that saying, and it works in some cases, but you have to know when to draw the line.

 

One of the funny things about how nebulous my point of view is is that I'm well capable of applying it to either side of your own conflict and justifying it under the point of 'choice of the individual', whether it's in making and abiding by a possibly terrible OC or attacking somebody for having such an OC. But in this case I'm going to disagree with your stance on it. In regards to my argument in this thread and all like it, that there is great diversity in this fandom and as a result you cannot homogenize it, you likewise can't ask that of the content produced by it's fans. Is there an infinite myriad of bad OCs produced by the show's fans? Yes, unquestionably, and I snicker at them whenever they crop up. But it's the prerogative of those who make them, and not everyone in this fandom has the same idea of what constitutes a good OC, anyways. We're not all genius writers.

 

What I generally disagree with is becoming militant against the other aspects of this fandom. I don't approve of those who want to thresh cloppers from the fandom, I don't approve of the OCs intentions of leading a charge to make this fandom 'pure' or whatever, and I don't approve of the idea of attacking somebody based on their OCs. That's what 'love and tolerate' meant to me anyways, as much as I took the statement seriously (read, not even remotely). The diversity of this fandom means many types will be in it, and let them all run free. Whatever. Just stick to the ones you like and ignore the others.

 

At the end of the day, my personal defining percept of this fandom is that it's just a cute show that a ton of random peeps around the world like. There are issues that need to be crusaded over. LGBTQ rights. The progression of society in general. But we don't need crusades in a freaking fandom, of all things. Of course, it's still going to happen and I can't do shit to stop it because some people do take this fandom and it's elements seriously, but that doesn't stop me from saying my bit, imparting my personal wisdom:

 

Stop taking this so seriously, people.

 

EDIT: I'm just going to copy this post and paste it into every thread like this that appears from now on. Saves me a lot of brain power.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Little Black Dress

[Oblivion 20,271]

We should not have to"tweak" any words or do anything to make us more accepted in society, it's more along the lines that people need to have an open mind tend to accept us more and then the morons that have close minds and just a generally mean personalty to begin with are the ones that end up bullying other people for being a brony. We will never be fully excepted or mainstream, until people learn to have an open mind and accept that not everyone is into the same things. Sadly, the way people can be at the moment, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[Aerodynas 439]

@,

I can see it now: The Brony Crusades XD

[Ribbonfree 2,383]

@,

I can see it now: The Brony Crusades XD

 

How I imagine it, at any rate:

 

[Aerodynas 439]

@,

hahaha indeed indeed XD Well, the commoners wish it my lord...

[Zhortac 1,475]

One of the funny things about how nebulous my point of view is is that I'm well capable of applying it to either side of your own conflict and justifying it under the point of 'choice of the individual', whether it's in making and abiding by a possibly terrible OC or attacking somebody for having such an OC. But in this case I'm going to disagree with your stance on it. In regards to my argument in this thread and all like it, that there is great diversity in this fandom and as a result you cannot homogenize it, you likewise can't ask that of the content produced by it's fans. Is there an infinite myriad of bad OCs produced by the show's fans? Yes, unquestionably, and I snicker at them whenever they crop up. But it's the prerogative of those who make them, and not everyone in this fandom has the same idea of what constitutes a good OC, anyways. We're not all genius writers.

 

What I generally disagree with is becoming militant against the other aspects of this fandom. I don't approve of those who want to thresh cloppers from the fandom, I don't approve of the OCs intentions of leading a charge to make this fandom 'pure' or whatever, and I don't approve of the idea of attacking somebody based on their OCs. That's what 'love and tolerate' meant to me anyways, as much as I took the statement seriously (read, not even remotely). The diversity of this fandom means many types will be in it, and let them all run free. Whatever. Just stick to the ones you like and ignore the others.

 

At the end of the day, my personal defining percept of this fandom is that it's just a cute show that a ton of random peeps around the world like. There are issues that need to be crusaded over. LGBTQ rights. The progression of society in general. But we don't need crusades in a freaking fandom, of all things. Of course, it's still going to happen and I can't do shit to stop it because some people do take this fandom and it's elements seriously, but that doesn't stop me from saying my bit, imparting my personal wisdom:

 

Stop taking this so seriously, people.

 

EDIT: I'm just going to copy this post and paste it into every thread like this that appears from now on. Saves me a lot of brain power.

 

The main point still stands, that that term is tossed around so much, it's just stupid now. My situation started, when I made simple constructive points on how that OC could be improved, and that he should keep any interactions with cannon in character (which he wasn't), and then a bunch of people explode as well as the creator of said OC. When I figure this guy isn't going to listen to reason, and tell him he's being stupid, then here comes the "Love and tolerate" speeches. Its being used as some stupid defense to people, who can't handle when someone might snap back at them, after they blow up.

[Ribbonfree 2,383]

The main point still stands, that that term is tossed around so much, it's just stupid now. My situation started, when I made simple constructive points on how that OC could be improved, and that he should keep any interactions with cannon in character (which he wasn't), and then a bunch of people explode as well as the creator of said OC. When I figure this guy isn't going to listen to reason, and tell him he's being stupid, then here comes the "Love and tolerate" speeches. Its being used as some stupid defense to people, who can't handle when someone might snap back at them, after they blow up.

 

Yeah, I won't disagree with you there. The term is almost completely devoid of any actual meaning now, in most of it's usages.

 

inb4 somebody argues about how we have to take back the term 'love and tolerate' for it's original meaning or whatever, prompting me to spend another 1000+ words on why that's a waste of time but whatever it's your prerogative in an aborted attempt to contribute something of meaning to this fandom.

[man dude man 555]

I sense the OP's stress and inner aggression, I would just like to let him know that fire, with fire creates a wall of flames, and I would like to tell the people being a little hard on our OP, that dousing fire with gasoline only creates a taller wall of fire. Strength is about staying true to what you believe, and fighting for it, not being pushed to the point of aggression in your beleifs that ultimatley amount to abandoning them because you can't take the way you are being treated. I will stick by my phiolosophies because they are what I believe, and I wont become hostile because people are hostile towards me, I will only be hostile when someone tries to take away my right to feel and act the way I please. Nobody can take away your right to tolerate and love, and people fighting for intolerance are never tolerated in the long run. Just stay true to you, don't lash out because that is what the antagonists want.

[TheChosenPony 279]

So, the fandom has been around awhile now, and like all new fandoms, or new ways of doing things, it had to be built up on something. For the bronies, the fandom was built up largely with one thing in mind: Love and Tolerate. Well my friends, it is time to change. As most of you know, the term Love and Tolerate wasn't originally used by bronies, but was actually used by internet trolls throughout 4chan for a decent amount of time. The term was then taken to heart by bronies and has been used throughout the fandom ever since. This has had some good repercussions, but at the same time, it has made us a very easy target. I would like to compare the term Love and Tolerate to the Articles of Confederation of The United States.

 

      Little history lesson. The Articles of Confederation were formed to help bring a small amount of order to the U.S. during the Revolutionary War. This was the first constitution. But this constitution had issues. How did they solve it? They decided that as a nation, they would come together and figure out how to change these issues. After a few years of discussion, they came to a conclusion and eventually The Great Compromise was created, bringing the Federalists - people who supported change - and the Anti-Federalists - the people who supported the current ways - together.

 

      That is exactly what we as a fandom need to do. We need to fix the issues that this term brings to the fandom. The issues I see, for example are stuff like how people treat us. I am teased and made fun of all the time. Are you not tired of this? Personally, I am tired of being treated like a damn doormat! I believe, that if we take this term that we have written across our flags, and make into something bigger, and better, that maybe we will be treated differently. Whether that means just tweaking the words themselves, just tweaking the meaning, or even just a whole new term all together. We NEED to change.

 

      So my question for all of you is this: Do you think we need to change? If so, what are your ideas? I would love to hear some of them. And if you don't think we need to change, then explain why you feel this way. Thanks for reading.

 

 

Uh. 

 

Love and Tolerance is what keeps this fandom together!

 

You want us to go back to 4chan and become rabid monkeys again?!

 

In case you didn't know, the earliest bronies were some very mean people before the term of "love and tolerance" was introduced. 

 

"Love and Tolerance" was incorporated into the fandom by the teachings of the show!

 

Honesty, Generosity, Kindness, Laughter, Loyalty and Wisdom (Magic) is love and tolerance my friend.

 

The show already tells us to stand up and be firm without sacrificing kindness and compassion for that person.

 

Bronies are just sitting here dodging insult after insult gracefully and now you want us to fight with them instead of let the haters hate?

 

Have you ever heard of the term "turning the other cheek"? All we will be doing is "feeding the trolls" if we fight back. We must let the hate die on its own.

 

"Love and Tolerance" is the act of turning the other cheek at a hater, we dont have to enforce them to watch the show! Yeah we can defend our right to watch it but we dont, and I mean dont fight back.. Hell if we teach this fandom to start hating then we will fear the haters and they will fear us! We dont want that! Not over some goddam show about cartoon ponies! 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFnFr-DOPf8

 

 

 

You want to know what this "Love and Tolerance" has done with this fandom thats never been done before?

 

It's made most bronies %50 nicer than your everyday person, It's stopped multiple suicide attempts, Bronies donated over $70,000 in funds to a brony who was made fun of for liking mlp, and attempted to hang himself and failed, he was in a coma for a while and now he has been breathing for over 78 hours thanks to our support(here and here). We've donated to multiple funds and charities through "seeds of kindness" and so so much more.

Edited March 18, 2014 by TheChosenPony

[Scootalove 10,689]

It's good to have a change and all, but we adopted Love and Tolerate from the show. Not saying that's bad but, since you can tolerate most things and love most things there are some things in this world that we can't love and tolerate. We can defend each other, but let's not fight over the show that we enjoy.