ErisPegasus

We needed more episodes with Thorax in the Crystal Empire. Come to think, he shouldn't have transformed a meagre 10 episodes after being introduced. Either have introduced him in S5, or make the changeling reformation happen at the end of S7 instead of 6. We needed to see him develop more. In my head I built up another 'base' for the show, in the CE rather than Ponyville. If only for several episodes in the space of a season, you would have Thorax, Sunburst, Shining Armor, Cadence, and Flurry Heart in close proximity to one another. I think this would have made for some good interactions for all of them; to give each a chance to 'flex'. Celestial Advice fed us a few details regarding mundane Changeling culture. We should have gotten more of than S6, as well as more Crystal Empire culture. We had a bit of the latter in the S6 opening, but we are still starved on both fronts.

To add to this, remember that ponies flat-out don't know dragons as a species. 'Baby dragon' could be incorrect. Even Twilight admitted to not knowing much.

The best answer? Continuity drift. As the show expands and expands, justifications in old episodes don't cut it anymore. So the show outgrows them without so much of a glance back. It may be the postmodernist in me, but I'm not too concerned. Unless it's blatantly egregious.

The MLP Youtuber I agree with most is Lily Peet. What this entails is: 1. Background ponies are not interesting. At all. Most of their stories are not interesting. I do not care about ~ generic reference to geeky television show ~. I do not. 2. Mare Do Well and 28 Pranks Later are both underrated episodes. The latter was highly topical due to the furore over 'political correctness' hitting its climax at the time. The moral that saying "it was just a joke bro" doesn't absolve awful behaviour - and that one should take into account who they are pranking before doing so - was highly refreshing and one I'd like to see more often. 3. 'Derpygate' was laughably overblown. DHX should not have showcased bland characters to the audience to begin with, because it would have confused 80% of the audience. Furthermore, it overshadowed one of Applejack's few decent episodes. And is the remaining 20% worth it? To quote Lily: "I'm biased against placating fans, because if you give them an inch they will take a mile." This point straddles 1 and 2. 4. Slice of Life was an atrocious episode. See 1 and 3. (may include more in this thread in the future)

So is Starlight building up her own Mane 6 then? Interesting that Starlight started her cult very recently, according to the episode. So she was building her town while Maud was travelling to complete her rock-torate? It'll be interesting to plot this all out on a timeline.

I'm not going to say much since I'm late to the party. Maybe another time. What I will say is: Celestial Advice is the more "useful" of the two, in that it contributes to the overarching plot of the series. However, All Bottled Up is stylistically better. Whichever of these two qualities you value more will likely influence which you prefer. I want to say I prefer Celestial Advice, but it felt like...box ticking. Celestia has a decent role. Tick. The Changelings do stuff in their new forms. Tick. Ember gets an appearance and speaking lines. Tick. Sunburst gets an appearance and speaking lines. Tick. It fulfilled fan wants for the sake of fulfilling fan wants, rather than because they meshed with the episode. A clear example of 'going through the motions'. (I genuinely liked the fleshing out of Changeling culture though. I <3 how they aren't instantly perfect, and retain all if not most of their buggish qualities.) Twilight's three hypotheticals reminded me of Lily Peet's video on the alternate timelines in The Cutie Remark; her point being that the episode was actively imagining better versions of itself. The Cutie Remark offered these tantalising possibilities, but never stuck to one. I believe Celestial Advice is in a better situation by dint of these still being possibilities: we might still see Starlight and Ember hit it off in the future, diplomacy between Twilight and the Changelings, as well as Sunburst shenanigans. We will never see the Cutie Remark timelines again. All Bottled Up, while not making them righteous, adds context to Starlight's less-than-stellar actions in the past. It's part of her nature that she needs to burn off magic: think back to Every Little Thing She Does and her outburst in the first act of To Where And Back Again Part 1. I liked this a lot.

This episode was a lot better than I expected it to be. 1. Flurry Heart, the Royal couple, and a member of the guard were given some devt in the span of 22 mins. (Wonder if Josh Scorcher will tone down his complaints ; come to think, half the fandom for that matter) Not sure how the 'bro' label applies to Spearhead other than his physique and voice. I mean, isn't an appreciation of the arts the diametric opposite of the 'bro'?Unless of course we're talking about Infinite Jest fanboys... 2. The ending scene put Spike in a place of authority, as well as tying up the hospital plot. It's such a short moment, but it says so much and would have depreciated the episode had it not been there. 3. Pony Latin exists??? Reminds me of the first Timber teaser for LoE last year - everyone else was freaking out about Twilight having a love interest, while I was wondering..."Wait? The EQG universe has Latin? A real world language?" Interesting how it crosses over to Equestria prime. Maybe they mentioned it here to avoid LoE's version being a plot-hole? Me spatium equus delectat. 4. the modern art digs were lazy at first, but I liked how they flipped it around half-way through. Spearhead's art worked: Shining and Cadence were reduced to emotional wrecks by projecting their anxieties over Flurry Heart onto the art sets. Subjectivity rules. I'm used to seeing nerd culture (of which bronies are a part) jeeringly dismiss non-photorealistic art because it doesn't serve a purely mechanical purpose. It's the same attitude that equates hour put into a work with true quality. Yes, I'm sure your hyper-detailed canvas of Rick and Morty had a lot of time put into it. But does that make it 'good'? Is it evocative? This is probably the jaded anti-Reddit Reddit user in me talking though. 5. the fact that it was a Ponyville episode not about Starlight meant we saw the Ponyvillians fleshed out. Not sure if this is just me, but despite the preponderance of Starlight eps taking place in Ponyville, I don't see her interacting with the regulars much. She and Trixie remind me of the skulking teenagers archetype; they live in the same sunny town, but don't hang around the same niches. Metaphorically, their adventures in Twi's castle last ep equate to smoking around the back of the supermarket we see Twilight whizzing through with Spike and Flurry Heart this time. Having a slice-of-life focused around Twilight and Spike means we see some of the established Ponyvillians again, some of which we haven't seen in a while. And that's nice. Overall: Expected a 5-6, got an 8. Thanks DHX!

Also like the Cutie Remark callback literally 30 seconds into the episode.

I noted that 'Denial' was a major theme in LoE; Sunset repeatedly stresses that you cannot ignore a problem forever just because it isn't convenient. Reminds me of how the writers treated Flash here.

I liked the fleshing out of magic, as well as seeing more of the castle's interior. We got to see its kitchen, a pool on the roof, as well as the catacombs underneath. It has quite a few webs for something that's only existed 2 years. Also great to see Starlight developing bonds with the rest of the Mane 6. They've had minimal interaction so far.

I'm surprised by the reception here. It's my new favourite instalment in the series. EQG: 4/10. RR: 8/10. FG: 7/10. LoE: 9/10. 1. For one, it was paced well. It opened with the bus to Camp Everfree, ensuring it would have plenty of screen time, and ensure a 'routine' of sorts. If the opening was as slowly paced as FG, the camp wouldn't have been fleshed out and the stakes at the end would be lower. 2. Gaia-Gloriosa is written SUPERNALLY. She's the third demon transformation we've had thus far, but unlike the other two ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE!! The transformation sequence is quicker and seamless, which also makes sense! Why? Because most of Gloriosa's transformation already happened. Sunset and Twilight turned into radically different versions of themselves; Sunset from a catty high-school bully into a monster wanting to take over another country, and Twilight from a meek geek into an omnicidal maniac obsessed with hoarding magic. Twilight's is the more bizarre of the two (it's probs the closest EQG & MLP will ever get to a school shooting plot), but both are insane and out of left field. Gloriosa on the other hand? The monster is a continuation of her own personality. Throughout her 11 minutes of screen time (the most of all 3 demons), Gaia-Gloriosa acts in ways similar to her human self. At first she wanders through camp, close to the ground, like a camp counsellor who just transformed into a monster would. She in effect lacks the flashy acrobatics of the other two. And when she confronts the students in her monster form? "Attention campers, I have an announcement to make!" It's so deliciously creepy because she retains much of her self (remember 'Cupcakes' the fanfic?). Just like how throughout the movie she puts on a sunny demeanour to mask her anguish, she acts in a way that everything is just fine*. Remember Gaia-Gloriosa's other quotes? "I'VE GOT THIS!!" <---- This was literally her catchphrase throughout the film! Instead of suddenly turning into a monster and doing a 180 in personality, she slowly sinks into it. Her transformation is the final icing, NOT an excuse for the writers to create action out of nowhere (though action still happens). Hence the sequence is subdued and less dramatic. This is brilliant writing, unlike Demon Sunset and MS, and I'm aghast more viewers aren't picking up on it. While admittedly the 2 minutes and 15 seconds of flashbacks we get from Sunset touching her is lazy, it's a small complaint. 3. Best use of the Humane 5 yet. This is partly a result of #1. With a small, centralised camp instead of a large & crowded high school, we see small character pieces that aren't rushed, and which contribute to the plot in small ways. The scenes after Twilight's song and before "Embrace the Magic", in which they gradually discover their powers, are probably the best illustrations of this. Also noticeable is the climax. With Sunset and Twilight trapped in the cave, we see the Humane 5 interact and battle the villain without their usual leaders. They fail, obviously, but it's excellent to see them take charge and prove they're not just accoutrements to Sunset/Twilight with an occasional quote about fashion or cakes. They have their own independent thoughts, such as when Applejack suggests fixing the dock be their camp gift. 4. The Mane Six's powers are good, while Sunset's is great. For all the non-Sunsets there isn't much to say. They have the powers I expected to see in Power Ponies (RD having super-speed instead of Pinkie, and AJ having super-strength). Sunset's powers were a masterstroke. I was NOT expecting it, but it makes sense. She is the Empath; able to gauge the feelings of those around her. Think back to RR, with her revelation while trapped in the basement with the others arguing. Think back to her comforting TwiNight(??) in that abyss of light, where she stretches out her hand and says "Let me show you there's another way..." She can feel tension (re: Timber Spruce and Gloriosa) and is the one to constantly comfort Twilight. She also successfully teaches the others to embrace their new magic, so what better powers than to literally read another's feelings by touching them? The act of lightly touching another's arm is a symbol of care: in fact, one of the accidental readings of Gloriosa's mind happens when she touches Sunset. 5. Other characters are well-written. Personally I don't like many of the fan-favourites ponies. The likes of Derpy, Vinyl etc are not creative and mesh badly with the settings they're in. I can't stand whenever they're shoehorned into a setting, and it's always so blatant when they are... ...which is why I'm thrilled it didn't happen here! Apart from Trixie's line after the boat crash, ALL of the other students contributed to a sense of place; adding bits of life to the camp without hogging screentime. I loved RR at first, like everyone else, but all of the fan shoutouts have soured my subsequent viewings. Flash has perhaps his best portrayal here, just squeaking past that one FG short. We see him confront Sunset about Twilight AND their past together in two interactions, and I was flabbergasted. They have never interacted on screen before, despite once dating, and it's elating to finally see some dynamic play out. Celly and Luna are involved in the action too (unlike FG), and it was good to see a few character moments however brief. I take it the sundial quibble is the EQG analogue for Nightmare Moon? Timber was fantastic. It was great to see his interaction with Twilight and his concern for his own sister, which continued even into the climax. Compare with the previous 3 films, where all characters apart from the Humane 6 tend to fade into the background during the final battle. I was frightened that a second Twilight would chew into Sunset's screentime, but she's still as prominent as ever. Having 7 main characters and Spike is still too...crowded...for my taste, but this was the best possible permutation of it. In previous films you had one less character and most of the Humane 6 still felt superfluous. Here they all manage to have a place of importance, which is extra impressive. Good stuff writers. 6. Assorted bits throughout the film, which show that the writers are putting in effort. - Gloriosa's two 'fake-out' entrances at the campfire and kitchen foreshadow her Gaia transformation. Both happen after mentions of Gaia Everfree as well. - Sunset's powers are foreshadowed twice; Fluttershy once if you interpret 15:08 the same way as me. - Twilight's and Timber's lanterns bump up against one another as they rise into the sky. I c what u did thar!! - This is probably better under #2, but I don't care: Gaia-Gloriosa doesn't try to kill anyone. She aims to trap them in the camp. Because it's the final week. Because she loves Camp Everfree, and wants it to last forever. It's psychotic and I love it. (Simpsons did it: an episode where Bart is enjoying an ocean cruise so much, he fakes an apocalypse on the communications system, which forces them to stay out there. Conditions slowly deteriorate and there's algae and gladiatorial matches. I know Simpsons-Noveau generally sucks, but this was one of the exceptions.) - continuing from above, it makes sense that Gloriosa doesn't try to kill anyone. She's caring, and retains this angle as a demon, however warped. You know who else is caring? Gaia, also known as Mother Nature. - also probably better for 2: during the scene where Timber tries to reason with his monstrous sister, her mad grin stays frozen while she slowly sinks under the vines. This is f***ing Lovecraftian and I also love it. Legend of Everfree is definitely the more 'psychological' of the EQG instalments in this sense and many others. *Gloriosa's behaviour here at #2 also mirrors a running theme in the film: denial. Sunset constantly tries to convince Twilight to confront her powers instead of hiding from the truth. If you study Writing Foils 101, you might know that a good way to spark creativity is to see how different personalities respond to the same pressure. Good job DHX!

This episode was...underwhelming, to say the least. The writers stalled for far too long. Discord doesn't warp Spike and Big Mac inside the game until two-thirds of the way through the runtime, and said sequence ends almost as quickly as it began. The bulk of the episode is him sputtering and dragging his feet at the events around him - time which could have been used somewhere else. All of the promos suggested this episode would consist of them playing inside the game, but that barely lasts at all. Instead we see Discord acting like a pedantic child, which isn't the way to endear the viewers to his character. That's my other issue with this episode - Discord is AWFUL. He spends the time attacking and hectoring others who have been nothing but polite to him. His willingness to harm Spike and Big Mac - and his sadistic gloating throughout - made me wonder if he was reverting back to his evil self. This isn't the 'ambiguous' Discord the fandom has built him up as post-reformation; he's literally being a villain here! I think I prefer 'What About Discord' to be honest. At least that didn't hype itself up to the extent of 'Dungeons & Discord'. Unlike many others, I enjoyed simply having an episode of Discord being Discord and Twilight getting jealous. It was down-to-earth, despite having the Spirit of Chaos, and it was great to see him bonding with the other Mane 6 members. But this...? Nuh uh. My attitude to this is identical to Lily Peet's attitude to Crusaders of the Lost Mark. This episode is worse than filler, because it takes a good premise (Discord bringing a board game to life) and wastes it on bad writing. At least filler episodes can be good, even if they don't add to the overall story. But this actively takes away, considering it's likely the only Discord appearance we're getting this season.

Why does FIM have this pattern of not naming villains in their first appearance, but doing it immediately in their second? E.G. Chrysalis in the season 5 finale, Garble in Gauntlet of Fire, and now Midnight Sparkle in this movie.

I reckon this is the episode where Flurry Heart will be stolen to prepare for the finale. Maybe in the finale, Chrysalis gets dethroned and the new leader is friendly to Equestria. That way the changelings as a whole are 'reformed', but not Chryssi herself.

Mare Do Well isn't that bad imo, but then again I'm from the Lily Peet school of contrarianism. If you do dislike the episode, make sure it's sincerely of your own prerogative and not because everyone else does. If a community preemptively decides that something is bad, individuals may be discouraged to find something about it they like.

The Mane 6 are all females in their early-mid 20s. Spike is a child of the opposite gender. It's not difficult to see why he has a different dynamic with them.

The Season 5 finale confirmed that several years have passed since both the series premiere and the Crystal Empire's return. In the NMM timeline, she says that Celestia "has been imprisoned in the moon for years". In Sombraverse, Applejack says that Rarity left Ponyville years ago "to join the cause". Meaning the Crystal Empire had been around for that time. My guess is that the same amount of time has passed in the show as in our world. So, 5 1/2 years since Twilight came to Ponyville, and 3 1/2 since the Crystal Empire returned.

Is it just me, or has Shining Armor's character really improved since the baby was announced? You have that one scene in S5 E19, and now you have his behaviour throughout this two-parter. Something about fatherhood must bring it out. Or there's something in the water.

Ahaha, wow. That's some hyperbole right there, and you accuse me of 'yelping'? I'm sure the user worrying over the 'vandalizing' of 'western civilisation' is the calm one in this discussion. I just noticed the 'Parasprite' flair, my bad. Engaging you was a baddddd idea.

YAS!!!!!! I called it - now he won't be able to look down on her!

I'm assuming Sunburst is as much of a fraud as S1 Trixie.

Funny how you jump at the negative stereotypes about Gamergaters (when no one even brought it up), then proceed to validate every single one of the those tendencies in your post. Namely, all those talking points that are copy and pasted directly from /pol/. On a broader note, this thread is flame-bait. The OP isn't helping matters. Oh great, here comes the 'SPOOKY GHOST' buzzword. How should I derail any discussion about social issues because thinking about the negative treatment of other groups of people makes me feel uncomfortable? I know, let's use a word that has long since lost all meaning! ... Maybe I shouldn't talk but spam Lily Peet videos instead. For a show started by a self-identified feminist - and aimed towards little girls - its fans can be utterly toxic when it comes to these debates. I know it's probably the over-representation of males in the fandom (hence the moniker 'brony'), but it's annoying at the best of times, and downright barbarous at the worst.

I brainstormed another concept distinct from the one I elaborated above. If only the episode had a bit more time, maybe, as part of Twilight's grand speech about friendship, she explains that as long as friendship exists, there's hope (or something along those lines). The visuals as she speaks pan between the first 3 timelines, showing scenes where this is the case: #1: Pinkie is shown helping an injured Rainbow Dash on the Arctic North battlefields. They both look on in dismay, as their fellow soldiers are gradually incapacitated by Crystal Ponies. Celestia herself is lying down, injured, as Sombra approaches. Then, a loud horn sounds, and a band of yaks appear on the horizon. They come stampeding down, trampling Crystal ponies but avoiding Equestrians, and Sombra's alarm gives Celestia a chance to blast him away and/or retreat. Maybe, if you want to use movie tropes, Rutherford trundles up next to Celestia and gives her a smirk. #2: Zecora and her clan of fighters are being marched through the ruins of Canterlot. It is covered in green goo, and hordes of Changelings jeer as their queen brings in the latest catch to be fed to the hive. Suddenly, loud screeches sound from the air, and the entirety of the Griffon Kingdom rains down upon the black shapeshifters. Maybe Zecora's whole clan escapes, or some of them do, or the timeline ends with them starting to fight back, leaving their fate ambiguous (like #1). (Noticing a recurring theme here? Friendship.) #3: A lone pony is dashing across a bridge, with Nightmare Moon's castle on the horizon. It doesn't matter who this pony is; they could be original, an alternate Mane Six member, or a supporting cast member etc. They look on to the Everfree Forest, but view the glowing eyes of Timberwolves. Thinking quickly, they double back to a staircase embedded into the side of the cliff. NM's guards burst out from the bridge, mutter to each other about scouting the area, and spread out into all directions. Meanwhile, the fugitive reaches the bottom of the crevice. It's so ridiculous - hiding right under Nightmare Moon's nose - that it just might work. They continue exploring this pitch-black area - maybe using a horn light if they are a unicorn - before discovering a cave entrance. They trot into it, and lo and behold!...the Tree of Harmony greets their eyes. The sequence ends with them staring on, awe-inspired by a light comparable to the sun of Equestria's halcyon days, as Rainbow Dash's yells and the shadows of guards draw closer. Of course, this would all need an extra 30-45 seconds. Maybe the sections would be pared down considerably from what I've written here, but would contribute to the episode's message as well as the first 3 timelines, which were cut too short in my opinion.