mega thread Feminist Club!

[Venomous 18,813]

I think that women and men should be equal. I would say that I'm a huge feminist, but I definitely support it

 

Then again, I'm all for equality for everyone regardless of gender, race, religion, sexual preference, etc.

[Veritum 257]

That's why it's so imperative to be familiar with some grassroots campaigns and local organizations who actually do 99% work for the movement, rather than just blindly accepting what the mainstream media reports. I get so frustrated when people are like, "I heard once that a feminist wanted to kill all men omg feminists are all crazy misandrist fire-breathing bitches!!!!!!" X__X Ugh. It's really not that hard to do some actual research on some real feminist activists who do good, positive work.

You could call me a feminist in a sort of sense even though I'm male, but I it was just neutrally called "gender equality". Feminism suggests only the women are the victims to gender generalization, and I fully support it but I also like to make sure people know men suffer from gender rolls, albeit a bit less often. MLP is a great example, for instance. A girl watches it? That's a cool. A man watches it and apparently he isn't a man anymore. Some men (like myself) don't work out every day and own 10 thousand tools to battle for who is the manliest, and that seems to be what a lot of people assume men are supposed to be.

 

Not trying to debate or anything, I just wish more people acknowledged the men's side of it was well. Feminism is a great concept and should be followed, but most gender rolls themselves need to be removed or changed, not just the ones against females.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Vectify

[Jennabun 1,578]

You could call me a feminist in a sort of sense even though I'm male, but I it was just neutrally called "gender equality". Feminism suggests only the women are the victims to gender generalization, and I fully support it but I also like to make sure people know men suffer from gender rolls, albeit a bit less often. MLP is a great example, for instance. A girl watches it? That's a cool. A man watches it and apparently he isn't a man anymore. Some men (like myself) don't work out every day and own 10 thousand tools to battle for who is the manliest, and that seems to be what a lot of people assume men are supposed to be.

 

Not trying to debate or anything, I just wish more people acknowledged the men's side of it was well. Feminism is a great concept and should be followed, but most gender rolls themselves need to be removed or changed, not just the ones against females.

 

Yeah - how men are can be positively affected by feminism and negatively affected by gender roles and such has been addressed a great deal on this thread. It's something that gets brought up time and time again, which is fine... I've made it a priority to show that this thread is about equality. We don't abstain from talking about the "men's side of things" as well.

 

Honestly though, I really just wish we could talk about issues that affect women without the people's automatic response being, "wait, what about men though?"

 

I understand that men suffer a great deal from gender roles and such. We all understand that. We're not saying it's not important just because it doesn't happen to be the focus of our discussion at any given time. Us specifically taking some time to focus on women's issues doesn't mean we don't also care about men's issues, just like me saying that I love to eat pizza doesn't mean I don't also love to eat tacos.

 

People often think that my identity as a feminist must mean I must only care about women and that's it, like I can't also fight against racial injustice, LGBTQ injustice, animal abuse, poverty, and tons of other stuff... sure, feminism is a big part of my life, but it isn't my entire defining persona. Yes, I feminists fight misogyny. Its our focus - women are our focus. Does it mean we don't care about men? No. Talking about one group's needs doesn't discredit other groups - it's not a competition,

Edited July 15, 2014 by Jennabun

[Veritum 257]

Yeah - how men are can be positively affected by feminism and negatively affected by gender roles and such has been addressed a great deal on this thread. It's something that gets brought up time and time again, which is fine... I've made it a priority to show that this thread is about equality. We don't abstain from talking about the "men's side of things" as well.

 

Honestly though, I really just wish we could talk about issues that affect women without the people's automatic response being, "wait, what about men though?"

 

I understand that men suffer a great deal from gender roles and such. We all understand that. We're not saying it's not important just because it doesn't happen to be the focus of our discussion at any given time. Us specifically taking some time to focus on women's issues doesn't mean we don't also care about men's issues, just like me saying that I love to eat pizza doesn't mean I don't also love to eat tacos.

 

People often think that my identity as a feminist must mean I must only care about women and that's it, like I can't also fight against racial injustice, LGBTQ injustice, animal abuse, poverty, and tons of other stuff... sure, feminism is a big part of my life, but it isn't my entire defining persona. Yes, I feminists fight misogyny. Its our focus - women are our focus. Does it mean we don't care about men? No. Talking about one group's needs doesn't discredit other groups - it's not a competition,

I understand what you said, definitely. Maybe I am a bit biased as a male, but I don't know why it's specifically called "feminism". Does it have to be called that to focus on the women's side of things? Could it not be called 'Gender Equality' but still be focused on one side in an argument? Or more so what is the male side of it? Masculism? God, I don't know where I'm going with this anymore. Maybe I am a bit biased being on the other side, but I just feel a lot of the time men are forgotten in this kind of instance. And to clarify I am not saying anyone in this thread is doing this, by the way. 

 

Continue with your discussions then

[Jennabun 1,578]

I understand what you said, definitely. Maybe I am a bit biased as a male, but I don't know why it's specifically called "feminism". Does it have to be called that to focus on the women's side of things? Could it not be called 'Gender Equality' but still be focused on one side in an argument? Or more so what is the male side of it? Masculism? God, I don't know where I'm going with this anymore. Maybe I am a bit biased being on the other side, but I just feel a lot of the time men are forgotten in this kind of instance. And to clarify I am not saying anyone in this thread is doing this, by the way. 

 

Continue with your discussions then

 

I know where you're coming from. It's hard to overcome personal biases.

 

I've always greatly preferred "feminism" to more vague terms like "equality," "egalitarianism," "humanism," etc. I prefer it because it recognizes that women specifically are coming from a disadvantaged place in society. Historically, women have been significantly more marginalized than men, and there are still remnants of that vastly oppressive past around today. Do women now have it better than women did in the past? Most certainly. But are there still problems? Yes. It's a different genre of gender issues (and as we've pointed out, the same gender issues that hurt women can also end up hurting men), but all of those issues are rooted in the sexist beliefs that caused feminism to become a political movement in the first place. Feminism today is a continuation of a political movement that has brought together women and men of all backgrounds who have fought for important rights. I think keeping that movement alive and remembering where we came from is vastly important. I like aligning my values of gender equality with a word that denotes not just what rights we are fighting for this moment in time, but what we've fought for historically. It makes me proud to be a part of a movement that comes from such a courageous past and continues to make great strides against sexism that recurrently hurts our society.

[IceeBrony 251]

An interesting thread to say the least.

- When and why did you become a feminist?

Never. I believe in equality. That does qualify me for feminist as defined here. Why? That's harder to pin down... I guess it stems from my rather fervent belief that all people are valuable.

- Why do you think feminism is still relevant to today's world?

Absolutely. It could even be reasonable to say that if you don't believe that, then you are either stupid or blind

- What is difficult about being a feminist in general?

The extremists. As society progress, the realization that we are all just people becomes harder to ignore. We all have equal rights and freedoms. Extremists slow that progress by spread more hated/intolerance.

- How do you think feminism gets treated in the MLP fandom?

In my experience, pretty fairly

- How does MLP support your feminist values?

Quite well. That said, it's certainly possible that some issue have been whitewashed.

- How do people react when you say you're a feminist?

Since I say "equality," they say nothing. It's hard to say that people should be treated differently. Not because dissenters don't believe that, but because it's asinine to say it aloud.

 

Personally, I rather dislike the term "feminist." But that is strictly due to poor connotation. In all honesty, I don't care about your genitals or demeanor, or what you want in a partners genitals or demeanor. I really have never understood discrimination, and can't abide by it in any form. I think all people should be treated like people.

 

The draft was mentioned, so I'll weigh in briefly. Should women have to sign up like men? Yes. However, I think the draft should be repurposed. Even without repurposing, I'd still support equal enrollment. Not all men are cut out to be in the front lines. And you're only crippling yourself if you don't take advantage of all your resources in a war. Who knows, the next Simo Hayha (1939 sniper with over 700 accredited kills) could be a drafted woman. I, on the other hand, am an asthmatic. I'd be less than useless in a fire fight. Should I be drafted come war? Sure, but something not front line.

[Jennabun 1,578]

Here's an interesting show-related question that I think might be fun to discuss:

 

What character(s) from MLP:FiM do you think would be most likely to self-identify as a feminist?

 

I'll give my thoughts in a bit

[Callisto 1,874]

I think Twilight and Rarity would be most likely to call themselves feminists (Applejack would be one, but wouldn't refer to herself as such.) Not for any super in-depth reason, they just seem like the type. Dash and Pinkie don't really care enough about that sort of thing, and Fluttershy...I dunno.

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Jennabun,

Probably Rarity...definitely Rarity

 

For fun

 

Misogynist: Sombra(I am willing to bet he had some prison bitches, the sadistic bastard)

Misandrist: AJ("Well ain't that just like a boy, can't handle the least bit of sentiment")

[lincolnshirepony 527]

Here's an interesting show-related question that I think might be fun to discuss:

 

What character(s) from MLP:FiM do you think would be most likely to self-identify as a feminist?

 

I'll give my thoughts in a bit

I wonder if there's a need for feminism as a concept in Equestria. A lot of the problems that feminism works to combat don't exist in Equestria. Were all the mane 6 somehow exposed to our world, I think that they all would become feminists in response. None of them would appreciate the sudden inequalities. 

[Hive King 1,998]

I wonder if there's a need for feminism as a concept in Equestria. A lot of the problems that feminism works to combat don't exist in Equestria. Were all the mane 6 somehow exposed to our world, I think that they all would become feminists in response. None of them would appreciate the sudden inequalities. 

Not really true. We haven't seen any female guard ponies, there is a gross disproportion in gender ratio, Rarity rather shamelessly uses sex appeal to take the nerd's celery, AJ sneers at Spike and calls him just a boy in disgust, etc.

 

Not feminism based, but there's lots of classissm and racism as well

[Kay Dreamer 884]

I'm a bit at odds with feminism in Equestria as well. It seems that while there are certainly gender biases, Equestria is a land where the mares have most of the political sway. It seems to me that mares may be considered more fit for positions of power than stallions are, while stallions are seen as a better fit for jobs requiring physical strength, which would include the Royal Guard. After all, we have the Celestia/Luna diarchy, along with Cadance ruling the Crystal Empire and Twilight presumably ruling something, eventually. Mayor Mare is female. Spitfire, the leader of the Wonderbolts, is female. Most positions of authority seem to be held by mares.

 

It's like they took the imbalance in our world and flipped it on it's head for Equestria.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,152]

I'm a bit at odds with feminism in Equestria as well. It seems that while there are certainly gender biases, Equestria is a land where the mares have most of the political sway. It seems to me that mares may be considered more fit for positions of power than stallions are, while stallions are seen as a better fit for jobs requiring physical strength, which would include the Royal Guard. After all, we have the Celestia/Luna diarchy, along with Cadance ruling the Crystal Empire and Twilight presumably ruling something, eventually. Mayor Mare is female. Spitfire, the leader of the Wonderbolts, is female. Most positions of authority seem to be held by mares.

 

It's like they took the imbalance in our world and flipped it on it's head for Equestria.

 

You know, thinking about that, I can't help but think of what little we saw of Saddle Arabia and Maretonia. While we can guess that both male & female are sharing some sort of power equally, it seemed like the male Maretonian leader had more sway than his female companion.

 

But then again, we know next to nothing about nations outside of Equestria.

[lincolnshirepony 527]

Not really true. We haven't seen any female guard ponies, there is a gross disproportion in gender ratio, Rarity rather shamelessly uses sex appeal to take the nerd's celery, AJ sneers at Spike and calls him just a boy in disgust, etc.

 

Not feminism based, but there's lots of classissm and racism as well

Perhaps I should amend my wording. I don't think a movement called "feminism" specifically would exist in Equestria, because it seems like mares in Equestria have been afforded more respect throughout history than women here. There's no indication that ponies have ever been denied rights or looked down upon for being mares, so the need for a movement towards female equality wouldn't be as strong as it is our world.

 

The guard ponies are an interesting point; I wonder what the reason is for that. I'm also curious about the reason for the disproportionate gender ratio. Though I think that a mare majority would probably lead to the mares having more influence within society. Rarity and Aj's actions do indicate that there are some stereotypes and poor teachings in regards to gender in Equestria, for mares and stallions alike. 

 

I could see some sort of gender equality movement in Equestria, but I don't think its aims would be the same as feminism's (at least in some regards), and I think it would start in a completely different context.

 

I agree on racism and classism existing in Equestria. That's a different, interesting discussion.

[Upgrade Levels 3]

Wait... By feminism you mean females believing in equality with men? And, not the other "type" of feminism?

[Away 2,077]

I'm a feminist

 

I hope this thread can teach some people what feminism actually is, rather than eschewed misconceptions and pre-conceived notions of it.

[Jennabun 1,578]

I wonder if there's a need for feminism as a concept in Equestria. A lot of the problems that feminism works to combat don't exist in Equestria. Were all the mane 6 somehow exposed to our world, I think that they all would become feminists in response. None of them would appreciate the sudden inequalities.

Just to clarify - I don't necessarily mean in the context of the show. I was wondering, for example, if Twilight was in our society, would she be a feminist?

 

But I'm actually kind of glad the question got misinterpreted - I love the discussion about gender roles and power in Equestria. I agree with you all saying there's not as much of a need for feminism there because it is a fantasy land in a show created for young girls, and because of that we end up with tons of women in power and female characters who don't get harassed for not conforming to certain gender stereotypes. It's definitely a heavily idealized society for women, not like the society we live in.

 

I also get curious about the male ponies and why exactly there seems to be less of them and nearly none of them in power. I'm willing to bet there ARE as many male ponies, they're just not as relevant to MLP as a show marketed toward young girls, so we don't see them. As far as power, obviously Equestria is a matriarchal society, but I don't know why or how it came to be that way.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Jennabun

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Jennabun,

Not necessarily. A good portion of the nobles we see are male. While the absolute power is female, the ones beneath her are mixed up a lot, see the sheriff of Apaloosa and Fancy Pants

[Jennabun 1,578]

@@Jennabun,

Not necessarily. A good portion of the nobles we see are male. While the absolute power is female, the ones beneath her are mixed up a lot, see the sheriff of Apaloosa and Fancy Pants

Yeah I suppose so. They just don't seem nearly as important or powerful as the females to me. But I guess that's just because we don't see much of what they do compared to the princesses. Perhaps they actually do quite a lot but it just all happens behind the scenes.

[Hive King 1,998]

Yeah I suppose so. They just don't seem nearly as important or powerful as the females to me. But I guess that's just because we don't see much of what they do compared to the princesses. Perhaps they actually do quite a lot but it just all happens behind the scenes.

Typically, they'd serve like a congress in the kind of society Equestria is. 

 

The Princesses are like eternal presidents, the nobles are like congressmen

[Sigma 768]

You know, there's something I've just now noticed. How come when people talk about feminism, they often say things like "Oh, I support equal gender rights, but feminism is only supporting the rights of one gender. We need a movement that supports both.", but when people talk about other movements that only focus on being a sexual minority or a single race, you don't hear nearly as many people say things such as "Oh, we need a movement that supports all races, including whites." or "We need a movement that supports all sexualities, including straights."

 

However, I'm not going to jump on the claim that all men who says these things are subconsciously sexist. I'm betting they say things like this because of the bad reputation extreme feminists give to the movement. In all honesty, I can't say I blame them. Who wants to support a movement when so many of it's members will treat you like trash?

 

I'm not saying that the majority of feminists are extremists. However, the amount of publicity the extremists get certainly causes an illusion of such, which causes a lot of males to misunderstand the movement. I don't know about you all, but if the LGBT rights movement took a dive because people on the media started to say things like "Straights are disgusting mainstream homophobes, and they should be abolished from the earth!", I would rip my hair out in frustration. Watching a movement you're in get destroyed by it's own members must not be fun.

[Mr F 1,521]

Well the mane six are female.....

How could anyone watching the show not support equal rights?

Anyway, I am sure Applejack would be proud of this thread.

[Jennabun 1,578]

 

 

You know, there's something I've just now noticed. How come when people talk about feminism, they often say things like "Oh, I support equal gender rights, but feminism is only supporting the rights of one gender. We need a movement that supports both.", but when people talk about other movements that only focus on being a sexual minority or a single race, you don't hear nearly as many people say things such as "Oh, we need a movement that supports all races, including whites." or "We need a movement that supports all sexualities, including straights."

 

NO KIDDING. This is such a good point with great analysis.

 

One thing I will say though is that there is some people who are like, 'What about the straight people!?" in the LGBTQ+ movement. I lead a queer rights organization in college and, obviously, we would focus on the needs of sexual minorities. That's what the group was for: to address problems that face sexual minorities in our community and how we could fix them. Overall, it was an awesome group and we did some great advocacy. But sometimes well-meaning straight people would come into our discussion group and want us to talk all about their problems. Someone would be talking about getting legitimately bullied at school for not being straight, then the straight people would change the subject to make it all about themselves. They would say things like, "Oh I know what you mean; I'm a straight ally and I get harassed for not being homophobic sometimes... poor me!!!!" Or they'd be like "Yeah I know; my sister's a lesbian and people make fun of me for it now even though I'm straight... it's so hard!!!" It would be really annoying. It would shift the focus away from the poor gay kids who really depressed and needed help to literally not hate themselves to death. I mean, it's not like like straight allies don't have issues that they run into, but are those issues more important to talk about than the oppression and ultimately MUCH WORSE harassment that LGBTQ+ people face on a daily basis? Hell no. That's why we focus on the people who need it more. It just makes sense.

 

It's the same thing with the "what about men?" thing we run into as feminists. Do men face problems related to gender? Yes, just like straight people can face problems related to homophobia. Does that mean we ought to shift the focus of our movement to focus equally on both genders all of the time? No.

 

Certainly, we can include men in feminist discussions and make sure their voices are heard and support them. I encourage that whole-heartedly! But I always advocate that the majority of the focus should be on women. It's not because feminists hate men; it's not because feminists want to exclude or devalue people. It's just that, ultimately, even though both genders have legitimate concerns and are both affected by sexism to a certain degree, the movement is called "feminism" for a reason -- because women are the ones that historically have been more oppressed and held back by society. To try and act like that's not true ignoring historical and sociological facts. Being a woman in our world comes with certain concerns, and wanting to dedicate a political group to addressing those concerns isn't an act of exclusion... it's simply an act of common sense.

 

...../rant (that went on longer than expected!)

 

 

Well the mane six are female..... How could anyone watching the show not support equal rights?

 

Hahahaha, I love your optimism! You'd be surprised about what some people say when you try to bring up gender equality... things can get.... ugly....

 

 

 

Anyway, I am sure Applejack would be proud of this thread.

 

I sure hope she would be! She is a great feminist-friendly character in my opinion. She shows that it's fine for women and girls too be strong and get a little mud on their hooves You don't have to be all ribbons and bows to be a "real girl" - real girls come in all forms! Yay for Applejack for showing us we don't need traditional gender roles! You don't see that too often in girls' shows.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Who here feels Rarity could b an good feminist role model?

 

Myself, I say yes a she show determination in pursuing a demanding career and shows herself as a hardworking business mare.

 

There is more I could say but I am on my phone. I am sure others could say more.

Edited July 18, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Jennabun 1,578]

 

 

Who here feels Rarity could b an good feminist role model? Myself, I say yes a she show determination in pursuing a demanding career and shows herself as a hardworking business woman.

 

I completely agree. One thing I love about Rarity is that she is super-feminine all while being intelligent, savvy, and strong-willed. Most people equate femininity with being stupid, easily-manipulated, or needy. But Rarity turns that stereotype upside-down!