mega thread Feminist Club!

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Jennabun,

"OK, now he was close/ tried to domesticate you/ but you're an animal/ Baby, it's in your nature/ just let me liberate you/ You don't need no papers/ that man is not your maker.”

 

I don't know, to me, it seems more like it's a cocky guy at a bar trying to talk some sort of good girl into sex, which she apparently wants

"The way you grab me/ must wanna get nasty/ go ahead, get at me." 

 

Whatever the case maybe, I doubt it was intended to be about rape and that guy's gotten soooooooo much hate over that. 

[Jennabun 1,578]

 

 

which she apparently wants

 

The thing is we don't have the girl's perspective at all. We don't know that she wants it. The guy is just assuming she does, which is never ever good. The girl could be totally creeped out (and many girls irl do find themselves creeped out in these "cocky man at the bar" situations and really want to leave, but they are just being nice as to not make the guy super angry at her. I know I've been there). I guess the main thing is that there really shouldn't be any "blurred lines" when it comes to sex - both participants need to 100% want to have sex and know that other person wants to have sex, otherwise it is just trouble.

[Hive King 1,998]

The thing is we don't have the girl's perspective at all. We don't know that she wants it. The guy is just assuming she does, which is never ever good. The girl could be totally creeped out (and many girls irl do find themselves creeped out in these "cocky man at the bar" situations and really want to leave, but they are just being nice as to not make the guy super angry at her. I know I've been there). I guess the main thing is that there really shouldn't be any "blurred lines" when it comes to sex - both participants need to 100% want to have sex and know that other person wants to have sex, otherwise it is just trouble.

It's very possible.

 

I think the Blurred Lines thing is more about kinky sex, looking at the lyrics where he talks about that her husband was too square for her and didn't do anything rough. 

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Oh no, reading this made me sad. Feminists don't think family is bad! Feminists say women ought to be free with their lives - this freedom gives women the choice to be anything from the president to a stay at home mom. I mean, I'm super-feminine - I bake, I work with children, and I want to get married and have a family. This doesn't make me ANY less of a feminist! Feminism is all about supporting all types of lifestyles, not just one! <3

 

I would say gender abolitionism definitely fits in the feminist advocacy somewhere, as the vast majority of feminism think gender roles are harmful to both men and women. But not all feminists want to abolish gender. I, myself, wouldn't classify as a gender abolitionist. I don't want gender to go away. I think gender is a big part of our identity. I just think gender roles ought to disappear - in other words, we shouldn't expect men to always be a certain way and women to be a certain way. I also want gender to be stop being seen as a black and white issue. I want trans men to be seen as MEN and trans women to be seen as WOMEN - no questions asked. I also want acceptance of people who don't identify within the man-woman spectrum (such as genderqueer individuals).

 

I guess I would say I want to get rid of a binary gender system, but not gender altogether.

Some, so called, feminists do through from conversations I have had with them. Ones that even say a movie is ruined if the female character gets married. Examples being Despicable Me 2 or Wreck-It Ralph.

 

More there have women critized for wanting to get married or have a family. It's... frustrating sonce I am a supporter of marriage and family.

---------

 

Moving on, for me it's actually more of getting rid of gender roles then gender itself. I accept the term 'Gender Abolitionist' mostly because it is the one that I feel bests fit me.

 

Genderqueer?

[Jennabun 1,578]

 

 

Genderqueer?

 

"describes a person who does not subscribe to conventional gender distinctions but identifies with neither, both, or a combination of male and female genders."

[GreyScholar 1,584]

"describes a person who does not subscribe to conventional gender distinctions but identifies with neither, both, or a combination of male and female genders."

Ah, so that explains why I saw a sight that showed LGBTQ instead of LGBT. I didn't understand why anyone would want the label of queer since it is mostly used as an insult... admittingly gay is used as an insult as well but still.

[Jennabun 1,578]

Ah, so that explains why I saw a sight that showed LGBTQ instead of LGBT. I didn't understand why anyone would want the label of queer since it is mostly used as an insult... admittingly gay is used as an insult as well but still.

 

Yup! Queer is becoming more popular as an identifier. People can use "genderqueer" as a gender identity as opposed to male or female. Also, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, etc. identified people sometimes use "queer" as a collective identifier or "umbrella term" for the community. For example, sometimes you'll hear activists refer to the "queer community" - meaning all people who are not heterosexual or cisgender.

 

The LGBTQ+ group at my college that I was the president of was called the "Queer Straight Alliance."

 

Basically, it's usually not seen as insulting unless a straight person uses it as an insult ("Go to hell, queers!")

Edited July 11, 2014 by Jennabun

[GGG 176]

i dont really care if people like blurred lines or not, i mean like i said its fiction, if we agree blurred lines contributes to rape culture then the argument that videogames cause violence will be valid, and nobody with respectable IQ levels believes that.

 

also, pff blurred lines being a rape song? truly people who have never heard how a TRUE rape song is like

[Jennabun 1,578]

i dont really care if people like blurred lines or not, i mean like i said its fiction, if we agree blurred lines contributes to rape culture then the argument that videogames cause violence will be valid, and nobody with respectable IQ levels believes that.

 

also, pff blurred lines being a rape song? truly people who have never heard how a TRUE rape song is like

 

It would be lying to say that the media we consume from the moment we start to understand it has no affect on how we view the world. Sure, shooting someone in a game doesn't mean you're gonna shoot someone in real life - it's not that cut and dry. But implicitly, it can affect how people think. The media can form our personalities, change or opinions, and give us ideas. I think we all agree that Thicke didn't mean to make a "Rape Anthem," but it doesn't mean the message can't be absorbed that way. We ought to be careful and constantly critique the media for that reason. It can be like a gradual poison, in a way. That's why I think the way women and minority groups are represented in the media is so important.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Jennabun

[GGG 176]

It would be lying to say that the media we consume from the moment we start to understand it has no affect on how we view the world. Sure, shooting someone in a game doesn't mean you're gonna shoot someone in real life - it's not that cut and dry. But implicitly, it can affect how people think. The media can form our personalities, change or opinions, and give us ideas. I think we all agree that Thicke didn't mean to make a "Rape Anthem," but it doesn't mean the message can't be absorbed that way. We ought to be careful and constantly critique the media for that reason. It can be like a gradual poison, in a way. That's why I think the way women and minority groups are represented in the media is so important.

 

to me, it all comes down to the parents, is their primary job to educate and make sure the kid grows into a healthy person, a good raised kid can start forming so that shit like the media doesnt easly influence him.

 

for example, back in the 80´s and 90´s kids could easily access to the highly violent rock music, and the highly violent cartoons, that had elements like violence, fire arms etc. but you didint see that generation going around killing people or hitting the police saying FUCK THE GOVERMENT, becaus most of them were raised better.

 

lets not lie to ourselves here, the media doesnt do JACK SHIT, in influence compared to society on itself, you now how most kids end up killing people, dying because of drugs or doing other illegal stuff? peer pressure, peer presure is more likely to make a guy rape a woman than a song.

 

it all comes down to how they were raised and their self control, a person coming down and telling you "you screwed up son, touching people like you own them is wrong" or stuff like that is one of the things that makes peopel come to their senses more, healthy society= healthy person

 

look at me, i have listened to songs that involve rape, violence, serial killing, jokes about controversial subjects  and all kinds of stuff, but because i was raised correctly by my parents and i hanged out with the correct people, i know better than to waste my life doing stupid shit, it all comes down to that.

 

if you want to criticize something in the media, you are rigthfully to do so, but bear in mind, by talking more about thicke you are giving him exactly what he wants attention, focus not on talking about him over and over and over again, but on ignoring him.

 

sure there is a certain line to be crossed in stuff that gets on the radio, you cant put a song that directly states rape and glorifies it, and its fine to get it out on the radio, but to keep talking and talking about it is just gonna make it stay relevant, what everyone doesnt want ironically.

Edited July 12, 2014 by twistedmetalero

[Shawn Parks 1,798]

I sometimes think about trying to volunteer with a feminist organization.  But I am always worried that they will not want my help because I am a man.  I am self conscious about even approaching them to offer.

[Evilshy 5,089]

I used to think most feminists were the radical ones (fucking news media, man. Doesn't matter if its liberal or conservstive, only radicals get airtime ) but then I dated a feminist. An actual feminist who disliked the radicals as much as I did, albeit for different reasons. I'm not sure I'd say I became a feminist, though, because I've always been for equality. Although I am for women dominating men, if you know what I mean

 

One little thing that bugs me is how scared the media (meaning TV and movies and such) is of showing anything a radical feminist might have a problem with. Nearly every father in TV is a complete moron who always fucks everything and his wife has to fix everything. That's not a problem in and of itself, but there are so few exceptions to this rule. Can't a shoe have a normal family for once. You know, one where both parents fuck up and the other has to save them.

 

 

Also, you might find the background of the 4chan vs Tumblr thing interesting.

See, 4chan didn't raid Tumblr, /b/ did (it's a board on 4chan). /b/ is basically the cesspool of the internet, but it's also where basically every meme and internet joke ever has come from. Even if something didn't start on /b/, you can bet it was perpetuated by /b/, and in that sense, almost every part of internet culture owes a lot to them. Even bronies started on /b/

Anyway, the political board, /pol/, wanted to raid Tumblr, but they don't have nearly enough manpower. In fact, /b/ is really the only board with enough to actually raid anybody, but /b/ is notoriously unmotivated unless they are directly threatened. So /pol/ made a bunch of fake Tumblr accounts and started posting anti-/b/ stuff. Actual Tumblrites started picking these up and spreading them, and before long, talk of raiding 4chan started. Then, Tumblr actually tried to raid 4chan. Imagine shooting paintballs at a tank; nothing bad will happen to the tank, but the people inside it would be pissed, and it's best not to piss off people in a tank.

The full force of /b/ was unleashed on Tumblr and it was hilarious.

 

tl;dr - another board tricked Tumblr into raiding 4chan so /b/ would wreck them and it worked perfectly.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Evilshy

[GGG 176]

 Even bronies started on /b/

 

bronies didint started on /b/, they started on /co/

 

/b/ hates fandoms.

Edited July 12, 2014 by twistedmetalero

[Evilshy 5,089]

bronies didint started on /b/, they started on /co/

 

/b/ hates fandoms.

Ah, right. /b/ is where we started to get big, though. And /b/ hates everybody and everything.

[Jennabun 1,578]

I sometimes think about trying to volunteer with a feminist organization.  But I am always worried that they will not want my help because I am a man.  I am self conscious about even approaching them to offer.

 

You should totally volunteer! I bet a lot of feminist organizations would actually find your presence rather refreshing. It's harder to find guys who would willingly volunteer for a feminist cause. I'm sure they would welcome it. If any organization gives you a hard time, I'd be surprised. You should try! The worst that can happen is that they say no - and that could be for a number of reasons. They may have too many volunteers or may not be equipped to handle volunteers at any given time. But more than likely, they would probably be stoked to have some guys on their side. I know I would be!

 

 

I used to think most feminists were the radical ones (fucking news media, man. Doesn't matter if its liberal or conservstive, only radicals get airtime ) but then I dated a feminist. An actual feminist who disliked the radicals as much as I did, albeit for different reasons.

 

I feel like this is the way it happens for a lot of people. Everyone thinks feminists are these crazy, man-hating, violent, radical people -- until they meet one and get to know them irl. Then all of a sudden it's like, "Oh. So they're just like, regular people who want equality for women. Who knew?"  Hahaha.

 

That's the unfortunate thing about the media. They like to sensationalize everything so all political groups look more out-there and radical than they actually are. It gives people all these false impressions on a daily basis, and people believe the media without even realizing there may be faults in how groups are represented. I haven't been immune to this, myself. That's why no one can tell me the media doesn't affect people. Subconsciously, the media can really wire our brains a certain way if we let it... and unfortunately, many people let it.

[Zoop 8,384]

I feel like this is the way it happens for a lot of people. Everyone thinks feminists are these crazy, man-hating, violent, radical people -- until they meet one and get to know them irl. Then all of a sudden it's like, "Oh. So they're just like, regular people who want equality for women. Who knew?"  Hahaha.

 

That's the unfortunate thing about the media. They like to sensationalize everything so all political groups look more out-there and radical than they actually are. It gives people all these false impressions on a daily basis, and people believe the media without even realizing there may be faults in how groups are represented. I haven't been immune to this, myself. That's why no one can tell me the media doesn't affect people. Subconsciously, the media can really wire our brains a certain way if we let it... and unfortunately, many people let it.

 

Sadly this is a common thing that isn't limited strictly to feminists... it's always easy to overlook and not notice people that are being reasonable, but far less easy to do so with unreasonable vocal minorities. You can pass by twenty good folks without realizing it, but the moment you walk by someone loud and obnoxious, they're going to have your full attention.

 

As for the media, who wants to watch calm, quiet, and reasonable stuff on the news and whatnot? That's boring! The people want to be entertained! What better way to entertain someone than to give people something to mock and laugh at? Honestly, it's obnoxious as hell, and does little more than breed toxicity.

 

I used to think most feminists were the radical ones (fucking news media, man. Doesn't matter if its liberal or conservstive, only radicals get airtime ) but then I dated a feminist. An actual feminist who disliked the radicals as much as I did, albeit for different reasons. I'm not sure I'd say I became a feminist, though, because I've always been for equality.

 

Yeah, ditto. For a long time the only real exposure I ever had to feminism was limited to people that were on the extreme side of things... but, really, they're the ones that scream the loudest, and so are good at training people to have knee-jerk reactions to any mention of feminism and similar things, as has been illustrated quite nicely more than once in this thread.

 

Not only that, but people often find it easier to simply cover their ears with their hands, shake their head, and deny that there is any degree of inequality or injustice in their world, let alone that they may themselves be a part of it in some way, shape, or form.

 

This sums it up in my opinion.

 

 

 

[Shawn Parks 1,798]

The worst that can happen is that they say no - 

 

 

People always say that as if it were no big deal.  For some of us, any form of rejection can be rather humiliating.

[A Blithering Div 247]

I've read this entire thread. Can't say my mind has changed much. The only exposure to "feminism" was my mother and it is questionable at best. I'm not anti-feminism (literally can't be as an egalitarian) however I do question its validity and I'm hoping your answers to the following will help me see the light so to speak. I'm not here to inflame or start a riot. I'm looking for answers.

 

Draft. Yes it gets brought up a lot (for a good reason) but barring the whole backlog, do you think women should have to sign up for it at 18 like men?

 

This one does require back story and it hits close to home. A few years after I was born, the household consisted of me, my mother, my step father and my step brother on the weekends. My step dad had an ex and of course the custody battle went to her favor. I phrase it like such because even after it was shown that her boyfriend at the time was physically abusing my step brother, his two sons of his own and threatened his mother with a knife, she still had custody. They stayed together a little while after that as well. She spent the child support money on herself and to this day hasn't been much of a motherly figure. Since this thread defines feminism as equality for both sexes, why is the law written in such a way to give the mother favoritism over the father despite being arguably unfit and in some cases straight up unfit? Keep in mind the laws were written to avoid dead beat fathers.

 

Sorry if this is out of place but I would like answers from approachable people.

[Jennabun 1,578]

Draft. Yes it gets brought up a lot (for a good reason) but barring the whole backlog, do you think women should have to sign up for it at 18 like men?

 

I may be kinda "radical" about the draft (I don't know if that's proper terminology - I don't know many peoples' beliefs about it), but I personally believe that nobody should be drafted, man or woman. I want it abolished altogether. I think the government shouldn't have control over its citizens lives at all, especially when being drafted into a war literally could mean life or death. It makes me sad that men have to sign up for it in order to receive financial aid for college, have a government job, or avoid arrest. I don't think it's right.

 

 

 

This one does require back story and it hits close to home. A few years after I was born, the household consisted of me, my mother, my step father and my step brother on the weekends. My step dad had an ex and of course the custody battle went to her favor. I phrase it like such because even after it was shown that her boyfriend at the time was physically abusing my step brother, his two sons of his own and threatened his mother with a knife, she still had custody. They stayed together a little while after that as well. She spent the child support money on herself and to this day hasn't been much of a motherly figure. Since this thread defines feminism as equality for both sexes, why is the law written in such a way to give the mother favoritism over the father despite being arguably unfit and in some cases straight up unfit? Keep in mind the laws were written to avoid dead beat fathers.

 

My personal belief is that child abuse needs to be avoided at all cost. I couldn't care less if the parent is a male or a female - the person who is not abusing the child should get the child, no doubt about it. I feel really sad that this particular situation happened to you It makes me upset that the laws can be so outdated that judges are just like, "Oh obviously if it's woman, she's more suited to be a parent because ALL WOMEN ARE AUTOMATICALLY MATERNAL, RIGHT!? (sarcasm)" I think that idea is based off of incorrect gender biases, and that's not fair. Sometimes biological mothers can be worthless and abusive. Sometimes fathers are the ones taking care of the children and being caring. I feel like people need to take that into consideration. This aligns with my feminist background because most feminists believe in getting rid of gender roles and stereotypes that say things like, "Women are naturally better caregivers and men are naturally more likely to be stoic and worthless as caregivers." It's, for lack of better wording, a shitty belief! And it gives kids a really, really hard time sometimes. Not cool.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Jennabun

[IceeBrony 251]

Ok, I didn't reading hardly anything here, because it's my bedtime. But I was... disappointed? to see that this is a thread about equality, not superiority. Equality is logical and reasonable (and I support it beyond what most people are comfortable with), superiority is fun to poke. I know, I know, no trolling. But few groups are so worthy of it as ANY superiority group. Oh well. I'll follow this thread and make a more insightful post tomorrow. Glad to see reason in what is all to often a very UNreasonable topic.

[Jennabun 1,578]

People always say that as if it were no big deal.  For some of us, any form of rejection can be rather humiliating.

 

I understand. I'm like that too. I can be pretty sensitive and take things all too personally. But, rejection is just kind of part of life, you know? Everyone experiences rejection for one reason or another, and it's not always personal, even if it feels that way. It's just part of being human. You'll get rejected many times in your life - rejected for dates, for jobs, for scholarships, for credit lines... I feel like, if you always use the possibility of rejection as a reason not to do something, you would never do a lot of potentially awesome experiences! I just try to stay positive about it, even though I'm no stranger to rejection myself.

[Zygen 6,065]

I may be kinda "radical" about the draft (I don't know if that's proper terminology - I don't know many peoples' beliefs about it), but I personally believe that nobody should be drafted, man or woman. I want it abolished altogether. I think the government shouldn't have control over its citizens lives at all, especially when being drafted into a war literally could mean life or death. It makes me sad that men have to sign up for it in order to receive financial aid for college, have a government job, or avoid arrest. I don't think it's right.

 

 

 

 

My personal belief is that child abuse needs to be avoided at all cost. I couldn't care less if the parent is a male or a female - the person who is not abusing the child should get the child, no doubt about it. I feel really sad that this particular situation happened to you It makes me upset that the laws can be so outdated that judges are just like, "Oh obviously if it's woman, she's more suited to be a parent because ALL WOMEN ARE AUTOMATICALLY MATERNAL, RIGHT!? (sarcasm)" I think that idea is based off of incorrect gender biases, and that's not fair. Sometimes biological mothers can be worthless and abusive. Sometimes fathers are the ones taking care of the children and being caring. I feel like people need to take that into consideration. This aligns with my feminist background because most feminists believe in getting rid of gender roles and stereotypes that say things like, "Women are naturally better caregivers and men are naturally more likely to be stoic and worthless as caregivers." It's, for lack of better wording, a shitty belief! And it gives kids a really, really hard time sometimes. Not cool.

I personally have to agree with the draft thing, call me a wimp or whatever, but as a guy if I ever for some reason got drafted into into any of the armed forces, I would provide no help, because I don't think I could bring myself to kill anyone, not for such a reason. Plus I just don't really have what it takes, i'd probably be a meatshield for a few bullets at best, but I'm kind of a wimp of a man, i'm not very muscular, and not tough enough to deal with the armed forces, I could never do it, and if I had to be forced into it, it would be worthless, because I am just not suited for it, i'm basically too soft. I'd feel terrible and thus wouldn't do very well.

 

I think that those who actually want to be in the armed forces are going to do much better than those who don't, especially when there's people like me who just aren't suited for it.

 

And I'm all for getting rid of gender stereotypes, I don't like them either way. Imposed on men or women. Sure maybe they have slight truths behind them, but I don't think they should be forced upon everyone. 

 

There are men I'm sure out there who take care of children by themselves, or are even better suited than their wives, and vis versa of course. 

 

And I agree that there are some laws like that which are just outdated.

 

I'd also like to say thanks, I know i haven't posted anything here in a bit, but i've been reading your stuff, and while I obviously don't 100% agree with everything you say or anything, I do feel like you've given me a better outlook on feminists, and even females as a whole, and given me some hope that there are women who don't just hate every man for being a man, or think them inferior like I feel is the case at times.

 

So thanks for informing me on what real feminists are like. I feel like my beliefs are lining up much better with feminists now that I can see the non radical side of things.

[Jennabun 1,578]

@@Zygen, thanks for the articulately-worded response It's ok that we don't agree on everything (I mean, does anyone ever agree 100% with each other? Probably not XD), but I'm glad that the thread at least as proven to be positive for you in some way. You're a really cool dude if I do say so myself.

[Zygen 6,065]

@@Zygen, thanks for the articulately-worded response It's ok that we don't agree on everything (I mean, does anyone ever agree 100% with each other? Probably not XD), but I'm glad that the thread at least as proven to be positive for you in some way. You're a really cool dude if I do say so myself.

Yeah, obviously no two people can agree on everything, it's kind of impossible ;p. 

 

Doesn't mean that you have to have distaste for the person or anything, hearing different sides for something can be quite beneficial to improving your understanding on it.

 

And thanks, keep doing what you do, maybe it'll help out some others to hear some insight into what actual feminists were like, especially if they aren't exposed to any. They may not become feminists or anything, but you can still help influence them.

 

Keep up the good work! 

[Jennabun 1,578]

Reading this thread has proven to be interesting (Things You Hate About Your Gender). Most of the posts are men and women saying that they are hurt and angered by the unrealistic expectations the gender roles and stereotypes place on them. It's surprising to me that so many people recognize that gender roles/stereotypes are harmful and EXTREMELY frustrating, yet so few people claim to support feminism- the only movement that regularly advocates dismantling those very stereotypes most people hate. It's so weird to me. I wish more people knew about how feminism could help people struggling to fit into the rigid expectations society puts on men and women.