mega thread Feminist Club!

[Hive King 1,998]

I completely agree. One thing I love about Rarity is that she is super-feminine all while being intelligent, savvy, and strong-willed. Most people equate femininity with being stupid, easily-manipulated, or needy. But Rarity turns that stereotype upside-down!

EEHHHHHHH.....

 

IDK. Rarity is those things. She's not stupid, but dear lord if she wasn't easily manipulated by Discord and is lazy. The mare asks Spike to do practically everything(racism against dragons?), even things she really should be doing herself(digging up gems). And she is kind of needy, did you not see her enormous break down of whining in Inspiration Manifestation?

 

Rarity is a good character and probably feminist, but the reasons you listed aren't really why. She's a businessmare and clever. It's not a bad thing, but it does mean that she has no shame in doing stuff like using sex appeal to get stallions to do stuff for her and letting people do stuff for her

[Zoop 8,384]

 

 

...../rant (that went on longer than expected!)

 

 

Good rant, I'd say... and on a matter worth ranting about.

 

People like to get defensive about silly things. Talk about the challenges and issues that a group that someone isn't a part of faces? Lots of people that I've observed clam up and get offended. How dare you accuse* them of benefiting from the privilege associated with their gender/race/orientation? How dare you imply that their achievements in life were anything but the result of their sweat, blood, and tears, and that they may have had some degree of advantage that others lacked! How dare you imply that others that have reached the same heights as they may have had to work harder in one way or another to do so! Etc.

 

* whether or not any accusation was actually levied is irrelevant.

 

As a guy, are there some gender issues that impact me? Well, yeah, sure - but there are a whole hell of a lot more that I don't have to deal with as a guy. Not only that, but those things that I don't have to deal with tend to be a whole hell of a lot more significant than that which women tend to have to face, the sheer number of which tends to be mildly staggering. So... when I see guys whine that something like feminism is exclusionary by nature, or whatever, it's grating as heck. 

[Jennabun 1,578]

EEHHHHHHH.....

 

IDK. Rarity is those things. She's not stupid, but dear lord if she wasn't easily manipulated by Discord and is lazy. The mare asks Spike to do practically everything(racism against dragons?), even things she really should be doing herself(digging up gems). And she is kind of needy, did you not see her enormous break down of whining in Inspiration Manifestation?

 

Rarity is a good character and probably feminist, but the reasons you listed aren't really why. She's a businessmare and clever. It's not a bad thing, but it does mean that she has no shame in doing stuff like using sex appeal to get stallions to do stuff for her and letting people do stuff for her

 

All of them besides Twilight succumbed to Discord at some point. That doesn't mean they're not strong-willed or easily-manipulated. Discord is just really tricksy. Succumbing to an extremely powerful villain hardly makes anybody easily-manipulated.

 

I still stick to the statement that Rarity is strong-willed and not easy to manipulate. I mean, think of the Rarity in A Dog and Pony Show who straight up was the manipulator of the diamond dogs. Think of the Rarity that, instead of giving up when her fashion line was copied in Rarity Takes Manehattan, came up with an even better idea than her competitor and won. Think of the Rarity that doesn't let anybody boss her around - not even Applejack, arguably the most stubborn pony in the mane 6.

 

She whines, but she's not needy. Sure, she can get down in the dumps (like all of us do, right? Nothing wrong with that), but she just kind of takes the time she needs to stabilize herself. She doesn't go around begging for help. She has a wallowing period where she cries and stresses out, and then she composes herself and goes out to conquer. Sometimes her friends help her, but she doesn't demand their help. That's just what they do because they're all friends and they all help each other. I would say she's actually proven to be pretty self-sufficient. Think of how she makes and delivers all her clothes on her own; seeing as those orders are often extremely large and complicated, that's nothing to discredit.

 

Spike does things for her because he has a crush on her. And yeah she does let him do stuff for her, probably like she lets other guys do stuff for her, but she doesn't go around crying about how she needs a dude's help. Plus, whatever help she gets, she pays if forward by giving just as much help back, if not more. She's the element of generosity after all.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Jennabun

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Jennabun,

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

 

I don't like Rarity, period. I just think she's kind of...bitchy for lack of better word. Kind of like how RD is arrogant. That, and Rarity's whining fits make me want to claw my ears out 

[Upgrade Levels 3]

At least no one has though to challenge feminism rights in the show "too" much. Else we'd all have to start worrying about politics in the herd. Too much paperwork for even Mayor Mare to handle. Not like anypony won't already find some misunderstandings, but we still can try to grasp the concept that the show wasn't meant for such popularity to come across it, it may just be that the creation of my little pony as a show wasn't fine tuned to suit people's lifestyles, first, and third world problems and/or politics. I'm sure any debatable occurrences could arise, but think, are they really trying to bring these political and global problems to such a young group. (Young being an average age quantity) If the show creators actually wanted to bring in these sort of depictions, they would probably try making a more suitable cartoon, one that can show political problems, one that may even have humor to it. But such a situation as feminism could create unrest (As seen during the women's suffrage crisis of the 19th century) such unrest could have many improbable outcomes. Some that could lead to havoc, others that may lead to depression, freedom, or chaos; these outcomes in which a widely vast company (With some pretty damn strict copyright laws) would hate to be the center cause of. Feminism is one thing, Targeted feminism is another.

[Jennabun 1,578]

At least no one has though to challenge feminism rights in the show "too" much. Else we'd all have to start worrying about politics in the herd. Too much paperwork for even Mayor Mare to handle. Not like anypony won't already find some misunderstandings, but we still can try to grasp the concept that the show wasn't meant for such popularity to come across it, it may just be that the creation of my little pony as a show wasn't fine tuned to suit people's lifestyles, first, and third world problems and/or politics. I'm sure any debatable occurrences could arise, but think, are they really trying to bring these political and global problems to such a young group. (Young being an average age quantity) If the show creators actually wanted to bring in these sort of depictions, they would probably try making a more suitable cartoon, one that can show political problems, one that may even have humor to it. But such a situation as feminism could create unrest (As seen during the women's suffrage crisis of the 19th century) such unrest could have many improbable outcomes. Some that could lead to havoc, others that may lead to depression, freedom, or chaos; these outcomes in which a widely vast company (With some pretty damn strict copyright laws) would hate to be the center cause of. Feminism is one thing, Targeted feminism is another.

I don't really know why you're talking about....

 

Are you saying that MLP shouldn't have feminist themes? And that if if it did all this unrest would occur?

 

If that's your gist, I would argue that it's too late for that. MLP already has strong feminist themes to it. They are embedded in the shows messages about friendship and the generally positive portrayal of female characters. I mean, you don't see anypony literally saying "HEY KIDS THIS IS A FEMINIST THEME, OKAY? THIS IS A POLITICAL MESSAGE! TAKE NOTE!" The feminism involved is just implied. Most themes like that in shows, when executed well, are implied, but still very clear. And I would say that it *is* likely that people who make the show are aware of the pro-girl messages they are sending to young girls, and that's a very beneficial thing.

 

I don't really know what you mean about "direct" feminism... What's the alternative? "Indirect" feminism? "Unclear" feminism? "Hard to notice" feminism? How would that accomplish anything....?

 

I also don't understand what you mean by "too much" feminism in a show; and I got kind of lost in your comparisons to other historical movements. I don't know how you can measure the content of a political movement. And even if you could, how do you determine what's "too much" feminism? Does it become "too much" feminism when people start to get mad? If so, I'm all for too much feminism. Like, yeah, feminism creates unrest... It challenges people and that makes them uncomfortable... That's the point, to fight against the sexism in the status quo... So yeah.

[Jennabun 1,578]

Hello my pro-feminist friends! I found some more cute pro-feminist ponies today - enjoy :3

 

[source]

 

[source]

[source]

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Jennabun,

Funny coming from Fluttershy, considering her very bitchy behavior after Iron Will. I agree, there's a difference between being a bitch and being assertive 

[Jennabun 1,578]

So I was thinking about this earlier and I was wondering what your thoughts were on this, feminist thread friends.

 

What are your thoughts of female celebrities in popular culture? Which ones do you think are good feminist role models (even if they don't personally identify as feminist)? What exactly makes a female celebrity a feminist-friendly figure?

[Miles 2,512]

@@Jennabun,

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

 

I don't like Rarity, period. I just think she's kind of...bitchy for lack of better word. Kind of like how RD is arrogant. That, and Rarity's whining fits make me want to claw my ears out 

 

@@Jennabun,

Funny coming from Fluttershy, considering her very bitchy behavior after Iron Will. I agree, there's a difference between being a bitch and being assertive 

Hey.  How 'bout you just simmer down.  Rarity is just a drama queen... if she were bitchy that would make her a mean pony, in which she is not mean, obviously she is the element of generosity.  Rainbow Dash is not arrogant, that would imply that she values herself above others, which she does not; she just likes to toot her own horn alot, making her merely cocky, not arrogant.  And for goodness sakes, your going to call Fluttershy a B?!  I can't even right now.

- moving on - 

I have yet to participate in this thread, as I've been contemplating what I would like to say.  I want to admit that I'm not a feminist, but I've been wanting to understand more about it, and to be able to find the differences between the different types of feminism as to possibly become more supportive of the good version - that of which Jennabun has done her best to be a part of.

 

Because of my neutral stance [as of yet], I do find it best to not attempt to talk about my feelings on the subject at hand - or at least, those prompt questions suggested in the OP.  However, I'd like to respond to this:

 

What are your thoughts of female celebrities in popular culture? Which ones do you think are good feminist role models (even if they don't personally identify as feminist)? What exactly makes a female celebrity a feminist-friendly figure?

I would like to believe that Lindsey Stirling would likely be a good female role model.  She has shown how a woman can find her way to success as a talented artist.  She would likely be an inspiration to those who would like to pursue a future of making it on their own as a woman in the Music Industry.  I love her music, and she is able to show her power and confidence through her music.  I don't know her stance on feminism, but I think that I have nevertheless provided a good starting point in responding to your question, Jennabun (the one that is bolded).

 

Here's one of my favorite's from her that shows what I have described above.  

 

 

 

 

[crisahys 149]

Oh no, reading this made me sad. Feminists don't think family is bad! Feminists say women ought to be free with their lives - this freedom gives women the choice to be anything from the president to a stay at home mom. I mean, I'm super-feminine - I bake, I work with children, and I want to get married and have a family. This doesn't make me ANY less of a feminist! Feminism is all about supporting all types of lifestyles, not just one! <3

 

I would say gender abolitionism definitely fits in the feminist advocacy somewhere, as the vast majority of feminism think gender roles are harmful to both men and women. But not all feminists want to abolish gender. I, myself, wouldn't classify as a gender abolitionist. I don't want gender to go away. I think gender is a big part of our identity. I just think gender roles ought to disappear - in other words, we shouldn't expect men to always be a certain way and women to be a certain way. I also want gender to be stop being seen as a black and white issue. I want trans men to be seen as MEN and trans women to be seen as WOMEN - no questions asked. I also want acceptance of people who don't identify within the man-woman spectrum (such as genderqueer individuals).

 

I guess I would say I want to get rid of a binary gender system, but not gender altogether.

 

 

 

I don't think he meant it to be about rape, but he sure says a lot of thinks that sound creepy and rape-y. For example, I think a lot of rapist justify their rape to themselves using terminology found in "Blurred Lines" - such as saying "She wanted it!" even if the rapist never had the victim's consent.

 

I also think it's super creepy how he keeps trying to talk the girl into sex. I mean, it's clear he's trying to persuade her here. It's not something they both automatically want - his whole song is pretty much is him begging for sex out of some sort of entitlement. That is pretty rape-y sounding too.

 

I don't like the message. I do have a little bit of a guilty pleasure for the beat and overall sound, but that doesn't make up for the creepiness lol.

For the whole gender abolitionist thing, I believe in broadening the gender identity for LGBTQ purposes so that we do not exclude women who are gender-queers. I think the one of the reasons why feminists can be hypocrites sometimes is because they tend to exclude a group of women. Now for the Blurred Lines controversy, I think that a lot of it opens and reveals a lot of assumptions misogynists had on women, and that does contributes to the ignorance of a woman's consent. 

[Hive King 1,998]

 

 

Hey.  How 'bout you just simmer down.  Rarity is just a drama queen... if she were bitchy that would make her a mean pony, in which she is not mean, obviously she is the element of generosity.  Rainbow Dash is not arrogant, that would imply that she values herself above others, which she does not; she just likes to toot her own horn alot, making her merely cocky, not arrogant.  And for goodness sakes, your going to call Fluttershy a B?!  I can't even right now.

Cool your jets, it's just a word directed at fictional characters. I understand other people like them and they bring up good points, that's just my opinion on it 

For the whole gender abolitionist thing, I believe in broadening the gender identity for LGBTQ purposes so that we do not exclude women who are gender-queers. I think the one of the reasons why feminists can be hypocrites sometimes is because they tend to exclude a group of women. Now for the Blurred Lines controversy, I think that a lot of it opens and reveals a lot of assumptions misogynists had on women, and that does contributes to the ignorance of a woman's consent. 

I highly doubt that was the intent of Blurred Lines. I looked through the song and all I got from it was Bad Romance 2.0

[Jennabun 1,578]

I think the one of the reasons why feminists can be hypocrites sometimes is because they tend to exclude a group of women.

 

Yeah, I know what you mean for sure. That's another characteristics of really annoying so-callled "radical feminists" that gets mistakenly applied to all feminists. Radical feminists are the ones who think really transphobic crap like "trans women aren't actually women because they still have male privilege!!!" or "trans men gave up the gift of womanhood WHAT AN ABOMINATION!!!" etc... they say and believe some pretty awful things. As a feminist who also deeply cares about LGBTQ+ advocacy, I would never ever lump myself into a group with the rad fems. It's a shame that they make us all look like hateful extremists.

 

 

I would like to believe that Lindsey Stirling would likely be a good female role model. She has shown how a woman can find her way to success as a talented artist. She would likely be an inspiration to those who would like to pursue a future of making it on their own as a woman in the Music Industry. I love her music, and she is able to show her power and confidence through her music. I don't know her stance on feminism, but I think that I have nevertheless provided a good starting point in responding to your question, Jennabun (the one that is bolded). Here's one of my favorite's from her that shows what I have described above.

 

I had never heard of her, but I watched the video. Wow, she is fantastically talented! Thanks for your input Miles!

Edited July 24, 2014 by Jennabun

[Callisto 1,874]

If we're still disscussing female celebreties who are awesome feminist role models, I feel obliged to bring up Lady Gaga. Now, hear me out; she's a super cool person who isn't afraid to express herself in radical, bizarre ways, which sends out an awesome message to not just females, but all people.

[Jennabun 1,578]

 

 

If we're still disscussing female celebreties who are awesome feminist role models, I feel obliged to bring up Lady Gaga. Now, hear me out; she's a super cool person who isn't afraid to express herself in radical, bizarre ways, which sends out an awesome message to not just females, but all people.

 

I whole-heartedly agree. And Gaga herself identifies as a feminist! One of my favorite quotes from her:

 

"I am a feminist. I reject wholeheartedly the way we are taught to perceive women…the beauty of women, how a woman should act, or behave. Women are strong and fragile. Women are beautiful and ugly. We are soft-spoken and loud. All at once. There is something mind-controlling about the way we’re taught to view women. And my work is, both visually and musically, a rejection of all those things. So perhaps we can make women’s rights trendy... make women's rights, feminism, strength and security, and the power and wisdom of the woman... let's make that trendy. So many people have this misinterpretation that feminism is man-hating, which it isn't. It' got nothing to do with that."

[Sir Hugsalot 8,621]

- When and why did you become a feminist?

 

 

I am a guy, but I am all for gender equality between men and women when it comes to aspects You've mentioned in first post. 

Irl I ran across radical feminists (and inmature ones at the same time), but those events made me to look deeper into topic to see if this movement is REALLY that bad. Appearantly it isn't, actually it seemed opposite to me as not treating both genders equally always appeared to be dumb. I can call myself "feminist" even if I am against radical movement. Any kind of radical movement is bad and considering women superior over men is as dumb as considering men superior over women.

 

 

 

- Why do you think feminism is still relevant to today's world?

 

 

On an example of my country - feminism is still needed, because as much as in most cases there already is equality to some point - there are still problems that need to be solved. I will go with example of pregnant women. They have serious problems with finding a job as employers outright assume that they will attempt to go on vacation (for which according to polish law employer would have to pay), same goes about women with very young kids, especially if they are single. Some women of course do it intentionally, but if we go by this logic, then nobody with seriosu health issues should be allowed to leave work, because some of them might be faking it. Nobody is doing anything about it, government does not care, and women get no support at all on this matter. 

Also when they need help with trivial stuff like computers or even cars, men outright assume that they can easily fool them and get more money for doing nothing at all. Women are not only interested in shopping, celebrities and other crap like this. But men refuse to understand that here (on the other hand it was hilarious when my girl friend owned mechanic who tried to get 4 times as much money for repairs as he was supposed to, because he thought she knows nothing about cars :3 ).

Even the way some guys treat women in "everyday life". Treat them like proprty, judge by looks only, think of them as someone worse. Overall primitive way of thinking and generalization. Here again, some women are like this, but I probably have a great luck, because most of girls I know are real sweethearts and awesome friends. And at the same time - guys can be jerks, big jerks. Most of bullying incidents I've heard of were caused by guys, not girls. I am a guy and I admit that, in my life I got much more sympathy from an opposite gender than my own >.> 

 

On top of all, just look. We want equality between races. Between sexual orientations. Between nationalities. Between religions. Then why not between genders? Is it less important? Is it really hurtful to some people's ego that women are important members of society and both genders are equally important? Guys and girls "complete" each other, remember about this. Even on biological matter we both are equally important. If one gender suddenly disappears then entire humanity would go extinct within about 50 years. 

 

 

 

- What is difficult about being a feminist in general?

 

 

Problem with feminism is that it is often ridiculed by using an image of radical feminist to describe entire movement. I too was close to becoming a victim of such generalization and only a research prevented me from falling into this trap. But even mass media are of no help. We get quotes from radicals fueled with hate towards men and most people use them to describe all the feminists. And they can hardly be blamed if they are cut from proper informations. Once again mass media are looking for sensation, something that will cause strong emotions to attract viewers and they don't care about damaging certain group's reputation.

 

 

 

- How do people react when you say you're a feminist?

 

 

I don't say I am feminist myself, but I have some "normal" feminist friends now and even they are ridiculed any time they mention who they are, because someone knows feminism only from stereotypes. I think that proper campaign that would also point out huge difference between feminism and radical feminism is required. Otherwise this movement will never reach its goals. So I can't say that reaction is positive. Suprisingly even some women are negative about it.

 

 

 

- What is awesome about being a feminist?

 

 

I see every movement that supports equal rights to certain groups of people as positive and everyone who supports it without hurting others at the same time deserves respect. Overall it just makes me feel better to know that I am not one of people blinded by stereotypes based on some worst examples of feminism and I gladly support it after I found out what it represents. 

 

 

 

- How has feminism affected you personally?

 

 

No affection at all as feminism was pretty much something that described my opinion on matters about gender equality before I was aware of what it is about. 

 

 

 

- How do you think feminism gets treated in the MLP fandom?

- How does MLP support your feminist values?

- What are some good feminist quotes, graphics, or articles?

 

 

^ those questions will remain unanswered, sorry I just don't know, what to say about them.

[Kelario 95]

If I might interject: OP said that this thread "does not support radical feminism ... supporting female superiority."

 

By this point in time, feminism advocating actual equality is long dead (let's see...30 years or so?). Feminism these days is radical feminism, and legit feminism is egalitarianism which is shunned by society.

 

Just pointing that out.

[Jennabun 1,578]

By this point in time, feminism advocating actual equality is long dead (let's see...30 years or so?). Feminism these days is radical feminism, and legit feminism is egalitarianism which is shunned by society. Just pointing that out.

You are mistaken, but I'm not going to get into it. Please take your objections elsewhere, as this is not the proper thread for them.

 

 

 

On an example of my country - feminism is still needed, because as much as in most cases there already is equality to some point - there are still problems that need to be solved. I will go with example of pregnant women. They have serious problems with finding a job as employers outright assume that they will attempt to go on vacation (for which according to polish law employer would have to pay), same goes about women with very young kids, especially if they are single.

Excellent point! I've noticed this in the US too. Many people who I've discussed feminism with think that it's totally legit and not sexist at all to discriminate against pregnant women, women with kids, or simply women in general when it comes to employment. People rationalize not hiring or promoting women, thinking "It just ~*~makes sense~*~  to prefer a man over a woman because the company will never have to give a man maternity leave!" But... like... that rationale is pretty much the very definition of gender discrimination. A woman should not be penalized simply because the female body can bear children and the male body can't. It's not like they chose that burden for themselves. Simply put: if the only reason you refuse to hire or promote a woman is because of the fact that she has a uterus that may perform its intended function one day, you are being sexist. No one deserves to be discriminated based on biological factors outside of their personal control.

 

 

(on the other hand it was hilarious when my girl friend owned mechanic who tried to get 4 times as much money for repairs as he was supposed to, because he thought she knows nothing about cars :3 ).

Thanks for bringing this up too. It infuriates me that people try and take advantage of people like that. I mean, no decent human being should try and screw people out of money. Ugh. But yeah, it's a pretty common phenomenon.

 

My dad or my boyfriend have insisted on coming with me whenever I've bought a car or gotten a car repaired because I'm definitely the type of girl car salesmen and mechanics try to manipulate. I tell my dad and bf that I know when I'm being screwed over, but they like to ensure that nobody tries to pull one over on me lol. I'm glad for their help, but I wish people could just be decent human beings and not try to take advantage of others.. *sigh*

Edited July 25, 2014 by Jennabun

[<Deynyel> 0]

Sorry in advance, but i didn't read this whole thread - to long.

 

I will go with example of pregnant women. They have serious problems with finding a job as employers outright assume that they will attempt to go on vacation (for which according to polish law employer would have to pay), same goes about women with very young kids, especially if they are single. Some women of course do it intentionally, but if we go by this logic, then nobody with seriosu health issues should be allowed to leave work, because some of them might be faking it. Nobody is doing anything about it, government does not care, and women get no support at all on this matter.

 

Can you, please, explain me what should have been done in such situation? What government should do etc.

 

 

Kelario, on 25 Jul 2014 - 11:49 AM, said: By this point in time, feminism advocating actual equality is long dead (let's see...30 years or so?). Feminism these days is radical feminism, and legit feminism is egalitarianism which is shunned by society. Just pointing that out. You are mistaken, but I'm not going to get into it. Please take your objections elsewhere, as this is not the proper thread for them.

 

But he is quite right! In most modern countries there is no different laws for women and men.The same voting rights, equality before the penal law, public office access. Huh.. there is something else? ( I am omitting here abortion issue, because it's a controversial matter and itself worthy of separate thread )

 

 

Excellent point! I've noticed this in the US too. Many people who I've discussed feminism with think that it's totally legit and not sexist at all to discriminate against pregnant women, women with kids, or simply women in general when it comes to employment. People rationalize not hiring or promoting women, thinking "It just ~*~makes sense~*~ to prefer a man over a woman because the company will never have to give a man maternity leave!" But... like... that rationale is pretty much the very definition of gender discrimination.

 

Lemme put that this way. Err...

It's morning, 8.00 am in Ponyville. Certain pony wants something for breakfast so he/she make his/her way to grocery store to buy fresh veggies, and there two main stores. One, where vegetables are priced 4 bits, and second where the same amont costs 5 bits.

What do you think, in which shop this pony is going to make a purchase? Did he/she discriminate the owner of second store? Maybe it's a market discrimination?

Noope.

Similiar like consumer is looking for best offer, similliar companies are looking for best profit and minimum loss when possible.

There is nothing "immoral" about it.

Edited July 25, 2014 by <Deynyel>

[Sigma 768]

Sorry in advance, but i didn't read this whole thread - to long.

 

 

Can you, please, explain me what should have been done in such situation? What government should do etc.

 

 

 

But he is quite right! In most modern countries there is no different laws for women and men.The same voting rights, equality before the penal law, public office access. Huh.. there is something else? ( I am omitting here abortion issue, because it's a controversial matter and itself worthy of separate thread )

 

 

 

Lemme put that this way. Err...

It's morning, 8.00 am in Ponyville. Certain pony wants something for breakfast so he/she make his/her way to grocery store to buy fresh veggies, and there two main stores. One, where vegetables are priced 4 bits, and second where the same amont costs 5 bits.

What do you think, in which shop this pony is going to make a purchase? Did he/she discriminate the owner of second store? Maybe it's a market discrimination?

Noope.

Similiar like consumer is looking for best offer, similliar companies are looking for best profit and minimum loss when possible.

There is nothing "immoral" about it.

 

@@Jennabun, we need to make a second version of this thread in the debate pit so posts such as the one I just quoted can stay away from this thread, agreed? If you do agree, then be sure to provide a link to it in the original post.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Asterisk Propernoun

[Jennabun 1,578]

@, you're not on topic. Please direct your disagreement elsewhere. Even if you didn't read the entire thread, I expect everyone to at least read the first post, where the rules are outlined.

 

@Jennabun, we need to make a second version of this thread in the debate pit so posts such as the one I just quoted can stay away from this thread, agreed? If you do agree, then be sure to provide a link to it in the original post.

 

I know what you're saying, but the entire reason this thread was created was because there's already space in the debate pit directed toward people who want to debate feminism. It's quite easy to find space for debate if that's what people want to do. I've personally had enough of those threads, and I'm dedicated to making this a positive place. If anyone else posts trying to fight with y'all, just ignore

 

-------------

 

Back on topic: are there any more female celebrities you guys thought of who were good feminist icons?

 

One I thought of was Scarlett Johansson. She is really good at not letting people belittle her in interviews; she's called interviewers out on asking her sexist questions about her body and stuff. She also openly objects to female stereotypes in Hollywood and emphasizes the importance on female friendships. I love her <3

Edited July 26, 2014 by Jennabun

[hip-indeed 304]

Welp, I was gonna just quickly reply when I saw this in the 'recent posts' section to simply say "Yeah, I'm all for feminism, but only if it's about making sure things are *equal* as it should be, rather than bringing down or attacking others.  Then I read a bit of the top of the post and saw that those concerns are dealt with immediately, with 'equal' being underlined and 'radical' feminism being a no-no here... and, smiling, I figured I had nothing to add.

 

...BUT THEN, I SAW A LIST OF TALK-TOPICS.  I LOVE THOSE.  Like, no, I seriously crave those.  So to thank you, Jennabun, for making such a lovely and well thought-out and put-together post, I'm going to reply to the whole big fat list.  Even if I'm not an actual practicing feminist or anything to have much of an answer to all the points -- I really truly do support these issues *especially* if they're put forth and handled in the kind of mature, equality-seeking way you've outlined here.

 

So without further ado;

 

- When and why did you become a feminist?

Basically you could say I only support feminism like this currently, but perhaps I'm interested in truly becoming a feminist as outlined here.

 

- Why do you think feminism is still relevant to today's world?

Very frankly, because there are still myriad barbaric-minded silly people who don't believe men should have equality to men in many ways.

 

- What is difficult about being a feminist in general?

I would imagine the simple fact of what I just stated, most of all, but also the fact that even people not necessarily opposed to such ideas may not support feminism in general due to bad rumors and assumptions regarding it largely due to radical feminists and whatnot, and/or peer pressure from highly anti-feminist peers (as I experienced a LOT of, like seriously, a /LOT/ of back where I used to live in the backwoods of north Georgia.  Seriously, even jokingly mention a word like 'feminism' up there and you'd get more sour faces and pitifully ignorant dialogue than you could imagine.)

 

- How do you think feminism gets treated in the MLP fandom?

Well, as with many other things in this fandom, you can basically cut it into two rough halves; there are the 'good fans' and the 'not so good fans'.  The fans of the like I'm seeing in this thread (and mostly on this whole forum in general so far) are the types that would treat it with the respect and support it deserves, especially as presented in such a lovely way as it has been here; but then you have the jerks, misguided teens and whatnot that claim to be (and may well indeed be) fans of the show, but basically hate on any such attempt to better the world as ... 'frivolous garbage' to put it one way.

 

- How does MLP support your feminist values?

Like, the show?  The franchise?  From what I've seen, the franchise as a whole has done a rollercoaster-like job; the early days of G1 saw a cartoon series that was very adventuresome and at times even dark, very surprisingly comparable to boys' shows of the time like He-Man and Thundercats, and with a pretty hardcore movie to boot, inspiring young girls like Lauren Faust to do what they've done... so that's to say, 'supported them excellently'.  Then you have G2 and even worse G3, which kind of went the opposite way and really seemed to try to shoehorn girls into all the 'expected' things without offering an escape.  But then we have G4 that not only would, I assume ((I'm a guy if that wasn't obvious)),be extremely supportive of gender equality in any and all ways as outlined by everything right down to the characters themselves, but the very fact that so very many males of all ages have fallen in love with it is very compelling evidence that it's actually burst out of that evil little box that tells us 'cartoons and other things meant for girls, especially young girls, are intrinsically bad, or at least worse than the male equivalents'.  In fact you could argue that FiM is one of the most important and powerful proponents for true feminism in the entire children's field of... anything, ever.

 

- How do people react when you say you're a feminist?

See the answer a few above about where I used to live.  Unfortunately, I was never strong enough to actually say i was one or anything.  Where I have recently moved to seems quite superior in those aspects though.

 

- What is awesome about being a feminist?

I would imagine the biggest thing would be simply knowing you support equality and real human rights, and are fighting against the bullying tyranny of people who are actually still so barbaric as to think that humans who are different in some way to them are inferior or deserve less rights or options.

 

- How has feminism affected you personally?

I can't say it has much, yet, though I'm very glad it exists as a movement.  I have actually met a few of the 'extreme' variants that basically say awful things to me or male friends of mine just because of our gender and assumptions thereof, effectively becoming what they hate; but I still believe in and support the *real* feminists out there and am glad that through this thread I might start to be more 'affected' by them as well.

Plus, it lead me here and allowed me to potentially meet some wonderful-seeming people.. :3c

 

- What are some good feminist quotes, graphics, or articles?

um, well

i'll get back to ya on that one   

[Jennabun 1,578]

...BUT THEN, I SAW A LIST OF TALK-TOPICS. I LOVE THOSE. Like, no, I seriously crave those. So to thank you, Jennabun, for making such a lovely and well thought-out and put-together post, I'm going to reply to the whole big fat list. Even if I'm not an actual practicing feminist or anything to have much of an answer to all the points -- I really truly do support these issues *especially* if they're put forth and handled in the kind of mature, equality-seeking way you've outlined here.

Aw, thanks! I'm glad I'm not the only one who appreciates them!

 

- How do you think feminism gets treated in the MLP fandom? Well, as with many other things in this fandom, you can basically cut it into two rough halves; there are the 'good fans' and the 'not so good fans'. The fans of the like I'm seeing in this thread (and mostly on this whole forum in general so far) are the types that would treat it with the respect and support it deserves, especially as presented in such a lovely way as it has been here; but then you have the jerks, misguided teens and whatnot that claim to be (and may well indeed be) fans of the show, but basically hate on any such attempt to better the world as ... 'frivolous garbage' to put it one way.

Yeah, I completely understand what you mean here. I often feel like, no matter how respectful, fair, and positive I am trying to portray feminism, there's always the "not so good fans" who try to attack and tell me I'm doing some radical, awful thing by wanting to talk about equality. It's... odd, I guess, how some bronies have such an extremely negative, emotional reaction when these topics are brought into the spotlight. I'll never understand lol. Just gotta try to ignore it and be positive I guess!

 

 

But then we have G4 that not only would, I assume ((I'm a guy if that wasn't obvious)),be extremely supportive of gender equality in any and all ways as outlined by everything right down to the characters themselves, but the very fact that so very many males of all ages have fallen in love with it is very compelling evidence that it's actually burst out of that evil little box that tells us 'cartoons and other things meant for girls, especially young girls, are intrinsically bad, or at least worse than the male equivalents'. In fact you could argue that FiM is one of the most important and powerful proponents for true feminism in the entire children's field of... anything, ever.

This was very eloquently said. I loved how you mentioned, not only how the show itself is feminist-positive, but also the male fans. I've always thought that the existence of bronies does a lot toward a feminist cause by breaking down gender barriers and by proving that things made for girls aren't automatically dumb or frivolous. I agree a lot with this quote by Lauren Faust, which she directed toward bronies:

 

I feel like society kinda has a contempt for girls and little girl things. When athletes are performing badly, their coaches call them “ladies”, or when somebody’s being weak, they say they’re crying like a little girl… That’s contempt. And when somebody is trying to describe something as stupid or lame, they say it’s for little girls, or only a little girl would like that, or when something is pink or full of rainbows and hearts, people jump to the immediate conclusion that it’s dumb… And that if adult men are liking that sort of thing, there’s something wrong with them, because there’s something contemptuous and unworthy about girl things, and being a girl… And you guys challenge that! And that’s why I’m so inspired by bronies.

 

 

Plus, it lead me here and allowed me to potentially meet some wonderful-seeming people.. :3c

Yay! You seem pretty wonderful yourself! I'm glad you took the time to provide such well thought out answers. Welcome.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Jennabun

[hip-indeed 304]

 

Yeah, I completely understand what you mean here. I often feel like, no matter how respectful, fair, and positive I am trying to portray feminism, there's always the "not so good fans" who try to attack and tell me I'm doing some radical, awful thing by wanting to talk about equality. It's... odd, I guess, how some bronies have such an extremely negative, emotional reaction when these topics are brought into the spotlight. I'll never understand lol. Just gotta try to ignore it and be positive I guess!

 

Let's be real here -- it's almost definite in my eyes that for the vast majority of those people who act like that, they have seen/been told about/experienced the *bad* type of feminism and the extreme feminism/radical feminism...  and they assume that all feminism IS that kind.  They assume that as a feminist you are attacking or hating on guys, so even if us males might kind of deserve it in a way in the same way the white man in America deserves some big karma backlash for what he did to Africans and Native Americans etc., the fact of the matter is every new person that's born is their very own person that makes their own decisions no matter what race/gender/whatever they are, and those guys, even if they're jerks, have every right to defend themselves and not allow the more extreme types of feminists to convince them they're 'bad' or 'wrong' on little or no grounds other than simply the gender they are.  The thing is, of course you're NOT like that and REAL and i daresay MOST feminism is comprised of kind people who wish only for equality and not to bring anyone else down... but in their brains feminism has already been established as a 'bad thing' such that trying to tell them there are good feminists is like trying to tell someone there were good Nazis.

 

It's sad but the best thing we CAN do is simply be ourselves and be kind and warm and simply show them through practice that the 'better' feminism does certainly exist and we represent it.  I do love your attitude of ignoring negativity, though; if more people could simply do that not only would they be happier but whole communities like our silly pony one would be in a much better state than they are now hehe.

 

 

Also you hugely flatter me by calling me something like 'wonderful'.  I bow down to you and thank you wholeheartedly for such a statement; I'm just some dork who has a lot to say and think about and wants people to be equal and happy, YOU'RE the one who made such a great thread.

[Jennabun 1,578]

I came across this quote today. It's a quote from actress Leighton Meester, who is amazing:

 

"I don’t know of anyone would ever deny being a feminist. It certainly is made into something of a caricature these days. I think it’s demonized for the sake of trivializing feminist beliefs. But I think being a feminist simply means you believe in equal rights, and I think if you ask anybody if they believe in equal rights, they’ll say yes, man or woman. And if they don’t — who the heck would say that?"

 

I can't agree more with the idea that feminism is made to look like a joke for the sake of trying to minimize the issues and push it under the rug, so to speak.