Should Sunbutt be punished? Seasonal spotlight on her?

[ManaMinori 4,144]

All things considering, she's failed pretty hard in the years of her reign. Not paying attention to her sister's hurt feelings of underappreciation fof God knows how long, and not taking measure to help or notice before she went NMM mode; not assisting Sunset Shimmer in the way that was needed, to get her to embrace friendship, like she did with Twilight; allowing her romantic life with an AU Sombra to endanger not just his world, but her own.....

 

I GREATLY dislike IllumiNeighty horse, but I would be on board if DHX writers had a secondary seasonal arc set up featuring Sunbutt in the spotlight, alongside whatever main arc.

 

Off the top of my head, I'd want to see maybe one of Equestria's earth pony citizens have been studying the Equestria's artifacts- (Elements of Harmony and Alicorn Amulet), get an audience with Sunbutt, after learning of all her past failings through the elements, and take justice into their own hooves, punishing Sunbutt, managing to force her from the throne, imprisoning her in Tartarus, and using the AA (maybe appearance transformation) and EoH to try and bring about a better rule, under guise. While, of course, Sunbutt spends imprisonment meditating on her past sins, and maybe letting greif take over, becoming Nightmare Star, like the TCG depicted; breaks out of Tartarus, and goes batshit on everypony with it up to Luna to stop her sister this time, without the Elements or Alicorn Amulet, in the season finale, and take back the kingdom from the Earth pony who coup'd? (If DHX could pull off the concept of AA being used for noble purpose, EoH bing used aginst the mane 6 for noble intent, Sunbutt's punishment and NMS transition, AND exploration of Tartarus in one season, I'd be a VERY happy bony)

 

Thoughts on seasonal arc bringing Sunbutt's past sins to light, and her being punished?

Edited January 24, 2016 by Nightmare Muffin

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,361]

They should definitely bring up her glaring incompetence in some regards. Her treatment of Sunset Shimmer is probably one of the lowest points for her, to me. I mean, THAT'S what she does to a student that isn't fully getting the friendship thing? Seems a bit....drastic beyond measure. I would love to see a seasonal arc like this, but instead of her being punished by other ponies and whatnot, I would prefer to see you struggle with her own emotions. She could start thinking of these points and start feeling immense guilt. This could lead her to question if she is a good ruler or not, and it could eventually lead to her becoming Nightmare Star still, as the dark forces of hatred and fear could overcome her.

 

That would be pretty cool.

[Ponies4Bronies 394]

Well I don't know how they would go about removing her. Maybe a military coup d'état?

[Malinter 3,064]

She's a 2000 year old alicorn who could have quite easily let Equestria burn a dozen times over. She and her sister could have just left ponykind to linger in eternal misery under Discord if they wished.

 

Sunbutt isn't perfect but she knows far more about mortality than any mortal pony could even comprehend, let alone understand. She banished her sister, her only companion though the centuries, for what? mere ponies that might live a few decades? She choose the ponies of Equestria over her own family.

 

Sunbutt should never be punished, in fact, more ponies should throw themselves at her hooves for allowing them to live their lives of cider fuelled, musical orgies instead of worshipping her as a goddess!!!! *breathes heavily* ....

 

On the subject of the show. I would like them to show how the Celestia dealt with the lows she has faced, both to her and early solo reign after Luna was banished and she couldn't just Rainbow Laser her problems away like before. XD

Edited January 24, 2016 by Malinter

[ManaMinori 4,144]

Well I don't know how they would go about removing her. Maybe a military coup d'état?

I already proposed a coup in the op, dear. I think its really the only/ best option

[Ponies4Bronies 394]

I already proposed a coup in the op, dear. I think its really the only/ best option

Who might take her place though?

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

Why did nobody rebelled against her then in the last 1000 years? I think the ponies of equestria like it how it is.

 

Also, if this is supposed to be a serious rant, don't use mock up names. People might not take you seriously then.

[yeet 2,026]

Gwynivere makes sunlight, celestia also does this. Therefore we should praise her for making dark souls.

[Metemponychosis 1,238]

Nah. I'd rather see the writers punished for their piss poor writing.

[NullAccount 287]

She certainly has her moments of incompetence, but overall she has prevented the destruction of Equestria more than she has caused it. Even then, although I do prefer Luna, she wouldn't be the best option to rule a country alone.

[Malinter 3,064]

I call her Sunbutt because I know full well its a name she'd probably roast me on the spot for if I said to her.

 

I like Celestia but being formal is dull and calling her Tia feels abit off if I say it... so yeah, Sunbutt. XD

[simba86 1,541]

naw, all in all i think she has done an ok job and kept the land together in her thousand odd years on the thown. and she is just a fictional charactor anyway

Edited January 24, 2016 by simba86

[ManaMinori 4,144]

She certainly has her moments of incompetence, but overall she has prevented the destruction of Equestria more than she has caused it. Even then, although I do prefer Luna, she wouldn't be the best option to rule a country alone.

wheras Luna, before NMM hasn't also prevented the destruction of Equestria? She still was punished for her actions, at some point. Why should the other sister get off scot-free, for HER failings?

[ManaMinori 4,144]

naw, because they never really punish ponies in the show past becoming friends with them

In spite of the CMC being punished for their involvement with Troubleshoes, Babs nearly being punished for her bullying, Luna being punished for only wanting appreciation, Sweetie trying to punish Rarity for stealing her spotlight, Sunset having to rebuild a school wall as punishment....

[Megas 27,087]

Yeah, I hate Celestia because she doesn't live up to my impossibly high standard of Pony Jesus and has made mistakes during her reign, despite Equestria being happy with her rule for the most part, so she deserves to be stripped of her title and exiled

Edited January 24, 2016 by Megas

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

Yeah, I hate Celestia because she doesn't live up to my impossibly high standard of Pony Jesus and has made mistakes during her reign, despite Equestria being happy with her rule for the most part, so she deserves to be stripped of her title and exiled

LOL!! I love you Megas. Please never go away.

[simba86 1,541]

In spite of the CMC being punished for their involvement with Troubleshoes, Babs nearly being punished for her bullying, Luna being punished for only wanting appreciation, Sweetie trying to punish Rarity for stealing her spotlight, Sunset having to rebuild a school wall as punishment....

sounds to me like you just have a vendetta and personal dislike for celestia and want a lynch mob to hunt celestia down and hang her for crimes against the state, but seriously, it is all fiction so what does it matter? it's just a cartoon 

[Johnny1226 14,674]

The thought of celestia becoming a villain is awesome but I think she's done as much as she could given the circumstances so she shouldent be punished for her actions

[Swifty 249]

Oh lord. I want the staff to read this thread and do exactly the opposite. Showing Sunset Shimmer as a total jerk, Celestia wiping the floor with Luna, etc.

 

They should definitely bring up her glaring incompetence in some regards. Her treatment of Sunset Shimmer is probably one of the lowest points for her, to me. I mean, THAT'S what she does to a student that isn't fully getting the friendship thing? Seems a bit....drastic beyond measure.

What did she do to her? Something that happened in the comics? Edited January 25, 2016 by Swifty

[Nuke87654 1,849]

Oh lord. I want the staff to read this thread and do exactly the opposite. Showing Sunset Shimmer as a total jerk, Celestia wiping the floor with Luna, etc.

 

What did she do to her? Something that happened in the comics?

 

Sunset Shimmer broke rules by illegally looking at stuff at Canterlot Library to know more spells and pretty much demanded Celestia to maker her an Alicorn which pissed Celestia off to have her removed as her personal student after how Sunset Shimmer refused to listen to any of Celestia's lessons on humility. It was Sunset Shimmer that decided to escape into the mirror.

[Midnight Blossom 58]

All I can say is this.. Celestia rules over an entire nation, If not continent. There will often be times she has to make choices she doesn't agree with. Be it for the benefit of the country as a whole, or those she watches over. Yes she has made mistakes. In banishing Nightmare Moon she prevented the entire planet from being plunged into a state where, plants would be unable to grow, season unable to change even with the weather ponies influence. Yes it cost her greatly in that she lost her sister to the moon for 1000 years. 

 

Let me also ask you this. If the events were to continue while Twilight was under the effects of that potion, how do you know Celestia wouldn't have faced consequences for allowing her sister to become what she did and thus become a threat to Equestria? The issues surrounding Sunset Shimmer's banishment to another world. For all you know there could have been much more to it than what little exposition she provided Twilight. Perhaps she only told her what she needed to know so as not to be caught unawares by Sunset and left out details that would have made Twilight too afraid to go after the crown. Perhaps she exiled her to that world in hopes that being stripped of her magic would give her a new outlook on life and a fresh start at trying to become the type of pony Celestia had hoped she would become?

 

Am I dismissing the mistakes Celestia has made? No I know she made mistakes, many of them. But in a 22-24 minute show they can't show every consequence of each action taken by any particular cast member without straying from the message of that show. Besides it's a show that was originally designed for little children. Do you honestly think they would show such adult theme's like court hearings, punishment debates, etc. in a childrens show?

[Nuke87654 1,849]

I honestly don't know why the hate for Celestia. She does not need a story where she gets punished, forced into imprisonment and becomes evil because we want Nightmare Star. Celestia is one of the  poorest written characters DHX has as she's supposed to be this monolithic larger than life persona that all ponies in Equestria aspire to be. Instead we see her not only get her ass kicked multiple times, her role diminish to the point where in Season 5 she's pretty much shoved to be a minor secondary character at best, but also she has no episodes for any of the audience to really connect with her other than anecdotes here and there.

 

If folks want to use the NMM AU timeline as an example of how incompetent Celestia is and that her sister can rule things well, why not use the AU timeline, the Sombra timeline, where Celestia was leading Equestria in a wartime state against the Crystal Empire. That timeline was considered the least worst out of the bunch by Twilight, meaning that even though NMM is leading Equestria with an obvious iron gripped rule, Celestia engaging in a war against the Crystal Empire is considered the better AU timeline.

 

Speaking of which, why do folks like to blame Celestia for Luna's turn for evil when according to multiple sources, Luna pretty much shut Celestia out and refused to speak with her hence why Celestia went and did other things. You can say 'well Celestia should've tried harder'. I agree with that notion, but the bigger fault here was on Luna as she refused to be reasoned with and wanted to wallow in her own self pity till Nightmare Forces came and offered her a deal she foolishly accepted. Really how can you really blame Celestia and not put the much bigger blame on Luna as it was like 95% of her fault.

 

Also she has had other character problems like her idiocy in the S4 finale, her dubious manipulation in S3, but her mistakes where she has screwed up is fine as every character, no matter how much they're built up as perfect, they can make mistakes too. What I wish is the show staff show her having some awesome moments  or even dedicate an episode or so to develop her character similar to what they did to Princess Luna.

 

I know I've heard stuff like MA Larson saying that he prefers Celestia to be used as less as possible as he wants to built her as this legendary hero of yesterday that Twilight is trying to become. If done well, it's a fine thing to do. The problem is is that it's not done well. Celestia has barely any moments where she's portrayed in a moment of strength that shows her to be powerful and an awe inspiring character to respect on the show.

 

Say what you want about the comics, at least they actually try to give Celestia her moments and character development such as a few comic issues dedicated to her, and even showing her kicking Chrysalis's ass, gave her the holes you see on her legs, and even sending her and her changlings to a volcano for imprisonment. I want to see moments like those on the show if not in the present, than a past episode would be acceptable or so. Or better yet, why not do a similar issue to what Celestia's micro comic issue or Luna Micro where Celestia goes through some personal conflict or show Celestia's actions in a positive light as Luna found out how stressful even one day ruling Equestria was for her. The comics have at least tried to make Celestia an interesting character while the show has done little to nothing in that matter. Sure I agree with that the show >>>> comics but in the case of Celestia's portrayal, the comics may have problems with her that I don't like, but at least they try and they've had more success doing it than what DHX has to offer so far.

 

I mean if I could say if they want to go to the direction MA larson wants to go with her, than I advise they look at this Warhammer 40K character: Commander Dante for reference.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dante

 

While WH40K has it's own story issues, when it comes to Dante's characterizations, he's a bright shining example of a good written character in the setting. He's in my opinion Celestia done right as he's famed for being the oldest non interred space marine, a chapter master that has served over 1100 years in service compared to the next oldest chapter master being at 700, he's shown to while he's not the best leader around he's a good leader who has led his chapter through it's highest points and lowest points as he's determined to ensure the safety and care of his chapter however he can, and finally, it is because a culmination of all of those that he strives to remain one of the few bright lights in a grim dark verse as he inspires every one in the Imperium for his great and heroic deeds while he prepares himself if necessary to sacrifice himself to ensure the imperium and the emperor are saved if a prophecy becomes true.

 

He's Celestia done right for the facts that he's a larger than life figure because he's done badass stuff while at the same time has shown that he's not the best at everything, but a determined leader who wishes to ensure the verse around him can have this one hope to inspire it to become better because of his actions. Currently right now he's leading his chapter and other chapters that call his their parent chapter to defend their homeworld from the Tyranids.

 

Celestia on the other hand lately hasn't had such moments other than an AU timeline, what the comics show that I won't count as the issue is with DHX's characterization of Celestia, beating Discord alongside her sister, and saving Equestria from Discord by sending a fury of packages to help save the mane 6. What I want to see in the show is that if you want to make Celestia this monolithic and heroic character of the past that commands great and awe and respect from Equestria, show me why should I care for her. Let me connect with her so I can like her in the show and others can too. The poor mare is in desperate need of some love from DHX and I hope they actually go and do that Celestia episode they mentioned they wanted to do.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Nuke87654

[cider float 2,536]

Nah Sunset Shimmer is the one that should get punished. She lives in a world that emulates our human world the kind of act she would of done should put her in prison. 

[Number62 1,247]

Nah. I'd rather see the writers punished for their piss poor writing.

This. A good writer can make Celestia badass and godly while still being believable and not overshadowing other ponies.

 

Besides, Celestia has already been punished by getting some stupidly crappy treatment throughout the entire show, and being ignored can also be considered crappy treatment. I'm surprised she hasn't been killed off in some random and humiliating manner.

 

And can someone explain what "poor treatment" was given to Sunset? She and Celestia didn't interact in EG, and the comic showed Sunset continuously disregarding everything that Celestia tried to teach her. Kicking Sunset seems reasonable.

 

Speaking of which, why do folks like to blame Celestia for Luna's turn for evil when according to multiple sources, Luna pretty much shut Celestia out and refused to speak with her hence why Celestia went and did other things. You can say 'well Celestia should've tried harder'. I agree with that notion, but the bigger fault here was on Luna as she refused to be reasoned with and wanted to wallow in her own self pity till Nightmare Forces came and offered her a deal she foolishly accepted. Really how can you really blame Celestia and not put the much bigger blame on Luna as it was like 95% of her fault.

Yeah, I have to wonder what Luna fans are thinking. Maybe they want Celestia to mind control her sister of something. An episode or a few that expands on their relationship would be cool, and "Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep?" was a good opportunity. Too bad even an infant can already guess the actual outcome.

 

Also she has had other character problems like her idiocy in the S4 finale, her dubious manipulation in S3, but her mistakes where she has screwed up is fine as every character, no matter how much they're built up as perfect, they can make mistakes too. What I wish is the show staff show her having some awesome moments  or even dedicate an episode or so to develop her character similar to what they did to Princess Luna.

 

I know I've heard stuff like MA Larson saying that he prefers Celestia to be used as less as possible as he wants to built her as this legendary hero of yesterday that Twilight is trying to become. If done well, it's a fine thing to do. The problem is is that it's not done well. Celestia has barely any moments where she's portrayed in a moment of strength that shows her to be powerful and an awe inspiring character to respect on the show.

So the staff keeps saying that Celestia was some great hero, but the show does nothing to support that idea. I have to wonder if they have even noticed this. It's also too bad that her relationship with Twilight is almost nonexistent despite the show stating otherwise.

 

I've said in other threads that the characters are only as good as their writers. To expand on that a little, if a character is described as powerful and competent with the actual execution always making said character a helpless moron, what does that say about the creative team?

[Bendy 1,819]

Princess Celestia has a country to run. She may be immortal, but is not omnipotent and therefore makes mistakes. She clearly cares for the wellbeing of her mortal subjects, yet at the same time she doesn't want to do everything for them. She doesn't want them to be lazy and depend on her to do everything. If she did everything she would weaken her little ponies.

 

She could easily kill them like a tyrant and make them bow down in fear before her. But she doesn't need to, because they love her.

 

 

'When you do things right, people will think you haven't done anything at all.'

Edited January 25, 2016 by Bendy