S07:E09 - Honest Apple

[Thrond 3,263]

13 minutes ago, Whompy Whomperson said:

Not to mention, being blunt and tactless is usually something we'd expect from RD rather than AJ, and the moral seems to set itself up more for a character like her than AJ(there's a difference between an honest opinion and being a jerk)

 

The funny thing is, I feel like Rainbow Dash appreciates Rarity's work a lot more than Applejack does, so I wonder if she'd act the same way. 

[Dark Qiviut 22,392]

Quote

Rarity: But you said "fashion is ridiculous"!

AJ: But it's my opinion, and I'm not gonna lie!

Your "opinion," AJ, is shit.

1. You have no clue what "practicality" means!
2. You don't have a clue about how fashion design or graphic design as a whole means.
3. Instead of judging its quality, you're judging it through your own biases. None of your "criticisms" have any weight in them at all. Hell, you complained about a dress being "depressing" because of its shades of black.
4. Your "criticisms" cross the line into nitpicking every single damn thing they do before they move forward. Bashing a dress for its holes during development? Take off your hat! They have stitches for a reason!
5. Your "criticisms" cross the line into abuse. You bash Inky's dress for relying on buttons to keep it all together. You shake off the stitched feathers from a hat's base after she worked overnight to put it together!
6. You stereotype the entire fashion industry by calling it "ridiculous"! I'm not into fashion design, but I know damn well how important fashion is both functionally and creatively! If you gave a damn about your friendship with Rarity and respected your own hat, you'd study it in her own point of view long before spurting that insult.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Dark Qiviut

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Goddamn it, writers. Before you guys started writting any episode related to fashion, DONT FORGET TO REWATCH SUITED FOR SUCCESS!!!

Another mediocre epidode of S7. What happen to new writers nowaday!? Or I should blame AJ character is one of the worst characters that every new writer shouldnt start their first episode with her, is it so hard to write this character properly !? Or the story editors are suck, because they let this ep exists!?

I find some similarities between AJ and Fluttershy in their episode this season, they have their ideas but they acted like a prick.

"This is my vision, GTFO"

"This is my opinions."

This ep is so dull, i remember i like every fashion-related epidode of the show, what happen!? Common, writers, fashion show is what i love about the show, too.

What i like:

Spikabuse Strike Again.

Photo Finish, i wanted to see her for a long time (in the show), but she was in the wrong episode.

Rarity playing guitar.

I like 3 new fashion designers (unlike Flutter Leans In, i have no interesting in those 3 experts)

What i dont like:

AJ is suck. I dont remember she had such terrible fashion sense, they forgot Suited for Success exist.

The solution is so quick.

2/3 of this ep is boring.

Not many humors. COMMON WRITER, even the worst episode in previous seasons had humors or at least they tried.

 

This ep is designed to fail, they should choose another jugde, 4/10.

I dont hate AJ but she often attract bad writers or bring their dark side...

Can i have an AJ episode where she is the best part of the episode? I am bored now, give me some Starlight episodes!!!!!!!!

Bonus: Where is Twilight, i missed her already.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Lambdadelta

[FlareGun45 2,221]

3 minutes ago, Lambdadelta said:

What i like:

Spikabuse Strike Again.

Surrrrrre! Laugh at the outsider orphan some more!  

[Dark Qiviut 22,392]

Well, finished watching the Argument Off the Internet between AJ and Sunrise.

AJ's characterization's still trash. She wouldn't thrash someone over different tastes. If she would, then why would she be friends with Rarity in the first place? We're not in fanon territory here. She'd be fine with folks not liking apples.

Simultaneously, Sunrise's mocking of AJ worked as a joke. Why? Because AJ got what was coming to her! After the way she treated everyone else, she deserved a verbal plot-kicking.

[Ganondox 899]

53 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Well, finished watching the Argument Off the Internet between AJ and Sunrise.

AJ's characterization's still trash. She wouldn't thrash someone over different tastes. If she would, then why would she be friends with Rarity in the first place? We're not in fanon territory here. She'd be fine with folks not liking apples.

Simultaneously, Sunrise's mocking of AJ worked as a joke. Why? Because AJ got what was coming to her! After the way she treated everyone else, she deserved a verbal plot-kicking.

Sunrise didn't just not like apples, she implied they were full of worms, which was extremely offensive to Applejack as it's basically accusing her of selling damaged goods. 

[PittyPaws 118]

13 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

You're wrong. To a lot of people, fashion is also an extension of their creativity and/or personality. Rarity sees fashion from a graphic designer perspective. Not just how it's designed, but how it speaks to people and how it connotates. Fashion is her gateway to creativity.

That was what got me about this episode. It was sort of like an artist vs critic thing. Applejack doesn't get fashion and thinks its impractical. Because practicality is all AJ is looking for she doesn't see the art and dedication that's involved and that practicality may not be what everyone is looking for.  It was rather clever for Rarity to show AJ her own faults by showing her Strawberry Sunrise (nice to see one of the ponies from the blind bags get a mention in the show) criticism of apples and how SS totally disregards AJ's hard work and dedication toward apple farming. 

[Dark Qiviut 22,392]

Okay, quick question. Why were there suddenly four judges for the show? Weren't there supposed to be just three with Rarity not getting involved in the actual nomination?

If that's the case, then that's the episode's own continuity being broken.

1 hour ago, Ganondox said:

Sunrise didn't just not like apples, she implied they were full of worms, which was extremely offensive to Applejack as it's basically accusing her of selling damaged goods. 

That's actually a pretty great point. Kinda turns Applejack's cruelty around when she stereotyped the fashionistas and the creativity itself.

(And to be fair to Sunrise, Applejack deserved the insult when she literally stomped right to her face.)

Edited May 15, 2017 by Dark Qiviut

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

6 hours ago, VG_Addict said:

Why would Rarity think Applejack would be a good fashion judge in the first place? It feels like she picked Applejack because otherwise there wouldn't be an episode.

Fashion is a business, first and foremost. When you sell clothes or any other product, you'll sometimes want an outsider's perspective, even if they don't know what they're talking about. That's how marketing works. You want to appeal to as many potential buyers as possible by collecting data from different demographics. Or in the case of a fashion show, make the product more presentable to said demographics. So I'm not bothered by Rarity's decision to pick Applejack as a judge. She knew she would be ignorant on the subject, and was only expecting her to judge the designers' work on functionality. She just didn't know she'd give her opinions on the artistic aspects of their work in such an insulting manner.

It's overbearing, but that's the point. As much as people hate the way Applejack acted in this episode, this is something that happens with critics all the time. It's easy for people to get insensitive when giving honest opinions, no matter how good their intentions are. And despite Applejack's rudeness, she still thought her honesty was being helpful. So I'm not going to fault the writers for the direction they took with her.

[Baykush 328]

This episode could've benefited a lot from having AJ being less mean about her opinions, and I mean a lot (like, literally), it's funny because I even though I liked it a lot despite its flaws I was expecting people here to hate it more. Anyway, here's what I liked and disliked about the episode:

What I liked:

• It has a really interesting premise, Applejack judging a fashion show because Rarity thought it'd be a good idea? That's very interesting and her reasoning does make a lot of sense.
• The lesson, it's very interesting and something both kids and adults can struggle with. I think Rainbow Dash would've been a better candidate to learn that lesson, specially because AJ does have tact to say things (unlike RD, which is why I don't agree when people say she should be the element of honesty), but it's actually more interesting to see this side of Applejack.
• The comedy was great, Pinkie didn't have much of a point to be here except make funny things happen, and I don't care because without it the episode would've been harder to watch. My favorite part was when she said "Applejack told me to distract you for an hour" all of the sudden, specially because we didn't see that happening.
• It's nice to see Photo Finish and Hoity Toity back, I found it kind of odd how they just liked everything the designers made but they were a lot of fun to watch regardless. The designers were also a lot of fun, although none of them were very memorable characters. I loved when AJ told the valley girl one "I don't think that word means what you think it means".
• I actually can see why Applejack started acting the way she did, with very little knowledge about fashion and suddenly finding her opinion to be helpful (even if it wasn't), I can see why she'd get carried away. I think she took it a bit too far, but it was still good at first.

What I didn't like:

• That scene when one of the designers was talking about how much work she put into making that feather hat and then AJ came and not only told her it sucked, but literally destroyed it herself... that was painful to watch, of all ponies AJ should appreciate hard work, and even if she didn't she wouldn't just destroy it like that. I was actually accepting her behavior until that point but that scene was terrible, and she was already being kind of terrible and kept being like that afterwards.
• Rarity should've told AJ right from the start that she shouldn't be so rude, the conflict could've still happened but it would feel more natural and less set up to fail from the beginning.
• How Rarity had to get that random other pony to make her point, it was a very simplistic way to solve that conflict and it kind of came out of nowhere.

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

Inky Rose is a cute pony. 

[Ironic Nickname 31]

Applejack was so annoying in this episode, and not in a good way... I liked Rarity though. Overall I don't know how I feel about the episode, Applejack did come around in the end, after all. Perhaps she'll learn from this and she'll behave better in the future. I also kind of feel like this was Season 1-2 Applejack, she's generally been better and less annoying in recent seasons.

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

Just now, Ironic Nickname said:

Applejack was so annoying in this episode, and not in a good way... I liked Rarity though. Overall I don't know how I feel about the episode, Applejack did come around in the end, after all. Perhaps she'll learn from this and she'll behave better in the future. I also kind of feel like this was Season 1-2 Applejack, she's generally been better and less annoying in recent seasons.

I'll take this Applejack over the one from Somepony to Watch Over Me, or Cart Before the Ponies any day.

[Ironic Nickname 31]

Just now, KillerKingBakudan said:

I'll take this Applejack over the one from Somepony to Watch Over Me, or Cart Before the Ponies any day.

I don't know, this felt more awkward, although the consequences were perhaps not as bad. She was great as Smart Cookie though (in the Hearth's Warming Eve episode), She was also funny in Look Before You Sleep, though overall she's my least favorite of the mane 6 (someone has to be, after all).

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

OK, I re-watched it and was able to devote more attention to it this time around.

Overall an OK episode still, but Applejack was really hard to like since she went from honest, hard working, respectful but caring cowpony... to super saiyan bitch that would make Gordon Ramsay tear up (from sadness or pride, either one is possible). Some of her nit picking was worth a chuckle (hello Disco Ball outfit), while others were outright hateful (destroying Lily lace's hard work)... and as such it was an utter mess which direction she was going in. I mean I could see the comedy potential they were pushing there... Applejack is possibly the least fashionable pony in Ponyville, so making her a judge in a fashion show sounds like a comedy gold mine right... and thing is, you can see it written on the walls. A lot of the fashions we saw would inevitably get odd looks from your average Joe on the street still to this day...  and their explanations would create no end to a lot of eye rolling and guffaws from many a person, so putting a pony that embraces practicality, common sense, simplicity and some might say an unsophisticated attitude in a room with it all would surely lead to clash of worlds... and it did... but NOT in a humorous way.

Applejack has made it clear many times she does NOT UNDERSTAND fashion, but she has never expressed outright disdain for it. She has been just as much a vocal supporter of Rarity no matter what latest fashion she has promoted as much as the other characters. Whether that support was because she honestly found it attractive, or because she just wanted to support her friend, is irrelevant, the fact is she got behind it and enjoyed it as much as her friends. So it is really out of place for her to suddenly stomp all over fashion in general as if it stole her breakfast and then ate it in front of her while crapping on the kitchen floor. The could have gotten much better results and the comedy they were seeking but not having her stomp all over the fashion designers dreams and just sticking to what we already know.. she is uncomfortable with it all and would be clueless trying to make sense of it. She could have still kept her honest angle when giving her opinions, but just toss out the malevolent AJ that was all over this episode.

I think that is what caused the biggest overall issue... it was not that she was blunt... it was not even that she was a bitch... it is that she was relishing being a blunt bitch to a bunch of ponies that did noting more than just share their own creative visions in an effort to get exposure for their interests, whether or not you found them fascinating or silly... they did not deserve to be crapped all over. Which I believe is taking its cue from a lot of reality judging shows that ramp up the drama by not just critiquing a contestants food, musical talent, skills or abilities, but by trying to emotional emasculate them for the pleasure of the viewers.

"Hey look! Gordon just told that young girl that he could go in the restroom and fish out something from an unflushed toilet that would be more suitable to serve to a guest than actual real food! Look! She's crying! This is hilarious! What a dumb bitch for even trying!"

So yeah... AJ... honesty is OK... but no need to destroy someone over a simple opinion.

So what did I like?

 

• Rarity can Jam! Who knew... if the ponies ever come to the real world and we have to team up with them in Guitar Hero to save the world... Rarity is on my team.. just putting that out there. Pinkie agrees, the mane doth not lie.
• Some of AJ's observations especially at first were pretty funny. If they could have kept the good humored approach towards her not understanding it through the whole episode it could have been saved.
• Inky Rose.... new awesome character. Needs more goth ponies. Lily Lace was OK although a bit too ditzy sounding for my tastes, and Starstreak we had enough of that with Hoity Toity on set.
• Nice to see them still pulling old characters from earlier seasons and giving them expanded roles. I am not a Hoity fan nor Photo Finish, but I imagine for their fans it was thrilling to see them again. I can respect that.

 

What did I not like?

• Everything about evil heartbreaker AJ. She has already proven she can be honest while being tactful in the past. This just struck me as bottled up vindictiveness. Maybe those ponies reminded her of vagrants putting graffiti on her barn or something. Damn kids!
• Rarity not speaking up. I saw the subtle hints... however AJ is stubborn as hell, unless you outright tell her, nervous glances is code for "go hard or go home" apparently.
• The ending. I get that Applejack was trying to fix it... but would kidnapping the judges and contestants by their emotional assailant with a half hearted apology really put everything back on track so suddenly? You destroyed their hard work, crapped all over their dreams, devalued them as artists and as ponies in a manner of speaking and then stated their their ambitions and goals are ridiculous. A simple "my bad" is not gonna sponge up that spill so easily.

 

So yeah... overall it was OK with the ideas they wanted to execute, but the delivery fell flat. It is hardly terrible for me, but not something particularly good either.

5/10

 

[Jeric 46,851]

1 hour ago, GrimGrimoire said:

She has been just as much a vocal supporter of Rarity no matter what latest fashion she has promoted as much as the other characters. Whether that support was because she honestly found it attractive, or because she just wanted to support her friend, is irrelevant, the fact is she got behind it and enjoyed it as much as her friends.

This right here is why I lowered my rating one notch. I did enjoy the episode, and while I can understand the other complaints that people have, they didn't seem to bother me as much. What did make me go, "The hell?" was when that "fashion is ridiculous" line was spoken. Applejack simply would never have said that in that way, especially not in Rarity's presence. She's made fun of it before, but it never came across as anything beyond playful banter that friends do. 

And it is a bit out of character in another way. Applejack teared up at seeing Applebloom in a Gala dress. She understands something about how fashion can be meaningful even if it isn't at the same level as Hoity, Rarity, or Photo Finish. 

[JH24 385]

It wasn't a bad episode per se, it had some good moments and generally I liked it better than "Hard to say Anything." But it also lacked a kind of punch, a kind of impact. The episode just went on and on... and then ended. It's an issue for me with many MLP episodes.

It was great to see Photo Finish again, but she wasn't as memorable as in her debut episode. Where was her background music?

Edited May 15, 2017 by JH24

[Dark Qiviut 22,392]

17 hours ago, Ganondox said:

Sunrise didn't just not like apples, she implied they were full of worms, which was extremely offensive to Applejack as it's basically accusing her of selling damaged goods. 

Apologies for quoting your reply again, but I wanna add one more thing. I remember why I said this:

17 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

She'd be fine with folks not liking apples.

I was referring to her initial startle and immediate confrontation after Sunrise answered Rarity's question about apples. With how she reacted, it's like she'd never heard of anyone disliking the fruit before, which doesn't add up. It makes no sense for her to immediately get into her face like that.

[Stickman, The Legend 303]

Umm... Coming from what I'm hearing about this, mostly everyone doesn't like this episode... Hopefully A Royal Problem will pick things up.

[Ironic Nickname 31]

5 minutes ago, Stickman, The Legend said:

Umm... Coming from what I'm hearing about this, mostly everyone doesn't like this episode... Hopefully A Royal Problem will pick things up.

Blame Applejack (or the mischaracterization of Applejack). Aside from that the episode had its moments. I don't think it's a bottom 5 episode, and I don't even think it's the worst episode this season. It's worth watching still, just be prepared to be annoyed at Applejack.

[Stickman, The Legend 303]

Alright then. I can't wait to see Silver Quill's reactions when he gets to this... eventually.

[Ganondox 899]

38 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Apologies for quoting your reply again, but I wanna add one more thing. I remember why I said this:

I was referring to her initial startle and immediate confrontation after Sunrise answered Rarity's question about apples. With how she reacted, it's like she'd never heard of anyone disliking the fruit before, which doesn't add up. It makes no sense for her to immediately get into her face like that.

I guess, but Applejack was only a little bit defensive at first, the whole thing just kept escalating. 

[Ganondox 899]

1 hour ago, Stickman, The Legend said:

Umm... Coming from what I'm hearing about this, mostly everyone doesn't like this episode... Hopefully A Royal Problem will pick things up.

It's just the page you opened to, before that most people liked the episode. 

[Stickman, The Legend 303]

Just now, Ganondox said:

It's just the page you opened to, before that most people liked the episode. 

True that.

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

14 hours ago, Jeric said:

This right here is why I lowered my rating one notch. I did enjoy the episode, and while I can understand the other complaints that people have, they didn't seem to bother me as much. What did make me go, "The hell?" was when that "fashion is ridiculous" line was spoken. Applejack simply would never have said that in that way, especially not in Rarity's presence. She's made fun of it before, but it never came across as anything beyond playful banter that friends do. 

And it is a bit out of character in another way. Applejack teared up at seeing Applebloom in a Gala dress. She understands something about how fashion can be meaningful even if it isn't at the same level as Hoity, Rarity, or Photo Finish. 

It helps to look at her behavior from a consumer's point of view. Applejack is untrained in this profession. She'll like a finished dress if it manages to make Applebloom or whoever's wearing it look good, but as this episode made perfectly clear, she's had no appreciation for all the creative decisions that go into making one. This is what separates artists from the general public. Nobody thinks about anything other than the result, and quite often, designers are marginalized because of it. And I speak from experience. Their work isn't all fun and games like it's perceived to be. It's about research, composition, authentication of detail, time management and execution. This line of work is not easy. If everyone understood that, and treated artists with the respect they deserve instead of devaluing them, they wouldn't be seeing so many ridiculous job offers. I know industry professionals that have been in art for at least twenty years and still get people asking them for free work in exchange for "exposure."

Having said that, Applejack wasn't out of character at all. She never liked fashion. Maybe she wouldn't have outright insulted it in front of Rarity or her colleagues in the past. But her growing frustration at repeatedly seeing things from the designers that made no sense to her, and Hoity's argument with Photo Finish over a pair of seemingly identical belts, caused her to drop all social inhibitions and flip out in a manner that's natural to her. Who can say with a straight face that they have not been guilty of this?

Reading all the criticism in this thread is baffling to me. It feels like people just don't want to see these characters exhibit dramatically different behavior, and when it happens, it somehow drags the episode down for them when it shouldn't. Applejack is a generally polite pony who just happened to show a side of her personality we've never seen before. She was upset. People do inconsiderate and irrational things when they're upset. If we're gonna shoot her down for that, then we ought to do the same with Party of One Pinkie or Lessen Zero Twilight.

Edited May 16, 2017 by KillerKingBakudan