Why the Unfair Character Bashing?

[Thrond 3,263]

2 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

She doesn't have any because the inception of her character literary meant creating a character that did not change or develop; she had purposely halted her own character progress. She's not going to indulge in other interests because that would be doing something different than everyone else. Her ideal village is not changing because everyone's the same in every field, every talent and so she's not going change either to keep up the ruse that she is just like them. "Uncommon Bond" showed how fixated she was on the past, not only because it's all she remembers of Sunburst, but it was the last time she was actually living (probably also when she discovered her affinity for kites before cutting off all other interests to keep her equal) that is until Twilight intervened. I'm not going to say your wrong for finding her boring, I'm just considering with the character the writers created they've followed up on her charactization as logically as they could.

But then the logical arc is that she should develop interests and formulate goals, no? I don’t feel that many of her episodes follow that. 

1 minute ago, ShadOBabe said:

 

 

I real really wish that was a recurring element of season 7 rather than just the one episode. 

[KH7672 1,604]

50 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

But then the logical arc is that she should develop interests and formulate goals, no? I don’t feel that many of her episodes follow that. 

I don't know, I'll give her one more season as she's been dealt with in different arcs so far:

Season 6 makes her comfortable with herself

Season 7 makes her comfortable with other members of this ensemble cast so that she can fit into it. (Still missing those Re-Mane 5 episodes though)

Season 8 will hopefully let her now evolve as a character now that she's comfortable in the world and the the world for her and give her more organic roles.

I mean looking at some other characters interests in the same amount of screen time she had (Halfway through Season 2), it seems harsh to bash her solely on her lack of interests:

Twilight-Magic, Studying, Research, Fashion, Books
Applejack-Apple Family, Working on the Farm, Strength and Endurance Competition
Rainbow Dash-Flying, Relaxing, Strength and Endurance Competition, Cider, Newfound Love for Reading, Pranking
Pinkie Pie-Baking, Parties, Pranking
Fluttershy-Animals, Spa Retreats, Singing (but not comfortably in front of others until Season 4)
Rarity-Fashion, Spa Retreats, High Society   Life (as long as they're not stuck up), Newfound love for Sisterly Bonding
Apple Bloom-Apple Family, Working on the Farm, Building and Design, Determining Cutie Mark
Sweetie Belle-Singing (not comfortably in front of others until Season 5), Sisterly Bonding, Determining Cutie Mark
Scootaloo-Scootering, Dancing, Rainbow Dash, Determining Cutie Mark

Granted none of these characters, expect Fluttershy and Twilight partly in the premiere, have ever resisted change or development.

Edited December 6, 2017 by KH7672

[Jeric 46,860]

2 hours ago, ShootingStar159 said:

I think we have very different opinions on what bashing means. Having a negative opinion on something isn’t bashing. Expressing a negative opinion isn’t bashing

Bashing means severe criticism. Nothing more than that. Any connotation assigned to it with some form of higher degree isn't Grim's error. 

I've been in the community a while enough to have seen enough mild complaints be called bashing. This season had three episodes I didn't like. Three. Actually there is only one I really hated. Two I just didn't like much. In one of those episodes, I basically said nothing more that it was poorly edited and one scene could have been crafted better. In that thread everyone that had an issue with that scene was summarily called out as basically bashing the show. What followed was basically me  systematically shutting that down right then and there. 

People should not feel that they have to coddle someone's personal love for a character to the point that they have to walk on eggshells around them. 

Here is a secret about me and how I post here. I have never marginalized a person for enjoying a character, episode, or scene I hated. Hell, there is only one post in the over 10,000 posts that I have made here that has even mentioned who my least favorite of the Mane Six is. That is a very deliberate move on my part because I realized very quickly that even the slightest derision of a character, scene, or episode invokes feelings of resentment as if the person that made that opinion known had violated the most sacred of institutional beliefs. This is why I rarely make Pony topics. 99% of my new topics are in Canterlot or pinned announcements in other sections. 

I've contributed mountains of content here, but the secret is that I've felt I had to sacrifice a tremendous amount of exploratory analysis and discussion because the truth is that I don't want to make people feel like I'm crapping on their character. 

I, and others I know, have censored themselves. They have decided on limiting debate, or opting out entirely, because criticism, including severe criticism, is seen as an affront. In short some are far too sensitive to enter these types of discussions so I just don't go there often. 

You are dead right that people don't know what bashing is. But, it isn't the people who are critical that don't know the meaning. 

Yes, it gets terribly old when someone talks about nothing but how much they hates x character and goes on and on about it. I'm usually the first one to point out that sort of thing. But, we aren't talking about obsessiveness. 

So unless things change some of us will either not contribute, or like me, will phone in our B material. 

 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

As long as those people dont shove their opinions down my throats and keeping repeating the same thing over and over again like a broken radio, then i will just move on, people cant like the same things all the time. 

So far, i didnt actually hate any character of the show, even they are scumbags without any redeemable quality like Garble, Sven, they are jerks and that what their role of the story, they will annoy me at some point but i dont hate them. I will criticize whether i see the characters did something i  dont like but i dont hate them and expect the worst from them in their next appearance. If they are bad-written characters in genaral, i just could just skip them and focus the good parts of the story. The most annoying me is when characters dont feel like they served their purpose of the narration, but i usually blame the writers more than characters. 

[cmarston1 5,959]

This is part of why I actually started to actually like Flash Sentry.

I totally understand why people don't like him, as he was never really fleshed out that much as a character (although his Friendship Games short and Legend of Everfree did help a bit if you ask me) and that his romance with princess Twilgiht was also not really well written.

But at this point I just got tired all of the really heavy and intense hatred thrown his way, and realized that I never really disliked him in the first place.

Its been over 4 years sense the first EQG movie was released and at this point I don't really find any of the criticism thrown his way to be interesting or unique in the first place.   I feel like all of the criticism people have with him have been already addressed numerous times by now, and there is very little new you could add to that conversation.

[Jeric 46,860]

9 hours ago, ShadOBabe said:

I don't disagree that Flash is dull, but if you're trying to suggest that there are NOT any viewers that freak out because their horse-crush is getting shipping fuel with another character, then I have some disappointing news for ya buddy. They exist. And it's sooo annoying.

I'm circling back to this because I can completely confirm they do exist. There are many hidden posts testifying to this. I spent a lot of time in the Rarity Fan Club in 2014 afterall. 

[bluseymoe 258]

12 hours ago, Jade Fire said:

to be fair, starlight is a fan favorite now. only very hardcore haters still hate on her.

She's not really a fan favorite. It's just more people (including myself) have been able to at least put up with her now. She's still not a good character, but she's not ruining the show all that much anymore.

[Jeric 46,860]

52 minutes ago, bluseymoe said:

She's not really a fan favorite. It's just more people (including myself) have been able to at least put up with her now. She's still not a good character, but she's not ruining the show all that much anymore.

I'd have to agree. I suspect that there's a lot of confirmation bias in Jade's assertion, but it's hard to say. I'm in several Brony Discord servers. There seems to be an equal amount of people who can't stand Starlight vs. fans of hers. The majority opinion tends to fall somewhere in between the two. Opinions that are typically presented as reluctant tolerance, apathy, or cautious optimism. 

 

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Well, that is more anecdotal, the polls and stuff we have do show that Starlight is far more loved than despised at this point. When I go on DIscord I see more Starlight praise then anything else, but that doesn't mean she is a fan favorite.

But when I see a poll several thousand people voted on, and see Starlight taking away a vast majority of the votes, at that point I would say she is reaching fan favorite territory. The people who don't like her are more so stuck in the time rut that is her rushed redemption, and yet Discord, Sunset, and Tempest get a pass. So I somewhat agree with the post, some characters kinda do deserve the hate, Feather Bangs wasn't really a frustrating character, but he was annoying and generic. I didn't hate him, but I can't fault others who do. I never hated Zephyr, as Jeric said he is kinda a play at millennials, which I find hilarious. He does remind me of a few of my friends (just he is more extreme) and there is nothing wrong with the show teasing certain groups in my eyes. but I guess it would be okay to be offended by Zephyr in 2017 Omegalul

[ZethaPonderer 2,199]

Well I don't like Rainbow Dash as a character, but I can see the appeal why people like her. Just don't like the arrogant jock like characters with a heart of gold in general. They just annoy me to no end and she is no exception. I'm sure she has gotten interesting as the MLP seasons went on as many RD fans will prove me wrong. I never said she wasn't interesting did I?

 

As for the other side characters, I see this pony Flash Sentry getting hated just for being Twilight's boyfriend. I mean who really cares other than those who consider X and Y pony as their  waifu/husbando material?  for arbitrary reasons.

 

Flash could've been an interesting stallion of a character had the animators gave a damn about the movie in the first place like Silver the Hedgehog in Sonic 2006. *Sigh* Wasted Potential.

 

No clue on the later characters down the line.

[FlareGun45 2,221]

17 hours ago, KH7672 said:

I don't know, I'll give her one more season as she's been dealt with in different arcs so far:

Season 6 makes her comfortable with herself

Season 7 makes her comfortable with other members of this ensemble cast so that she can fit into it. (Still missing those Re-Mane 5 episodes though)

Season 8 will hopefully let her now evolve as a character now that she's comfortable in the world and the the world for her and give her more organic roles.

I mean looking at some other characters interests in the same amount of screen time she had (Halfway through Season 2), it seems harsh to bash her solely on her lack of interests:

Twilight-Magic, Studying, Research, Fashion, Books
Applejack-Apple Family, Working on the Farm, Strength and Endurance Competition
Rainbow Dash-Flying, Relaxing, Strength and Endurance Competition, Cider, Newfound Love for Reading, Pranking
Pinkie Pie-Baking, Parties, Pranking
Fluttershy-Animals, Spa Retreats, Singing (but not comfortably in front of others until Season 4)
Rarity-Fashion, Spa Retreats, High Society   Life (as long as they're not stuck up), Newfound love for Sisterly Bonding
Apple Bloom-Apple Family, Working on the Farm, Building and Design, Determining Cutie Mark
Sweetie Belle-Singing (not comfortably in front of others until Season 5), Sisterly Bonding, Determining Cutie Mark
Scootaloo-Scootering, Dancing, Rainbow Dash, Determining Cutie Mark

Granted none of these characters, expect Fluttershy and Twilight partly in the premiere, have ever resisted change or development.

And how about Spike and Starlight? :3

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

6 hours ago, Jeric said:

I'd have to agree. I suspect that there's a lot of confirmation bias in Jade's assertion, but it's hard to say. I'm in several Brony Discord servers. There seems to be an equal amount of people who can't stand Starlight vs. fans of hers. The majority opinion tends to fall somewhere in between the two. Opinions that are typically presented as reluctant tolerance, apathy, or cautious optimism. 

 

That depends entirely on where your looking, and it hard to tell overall consensus based solely on impressions, especially ones based on the internet. Derpibooru has a very loud group of anti-Starlight’s that make a giant stink about her whenever they can, and it leaves the impression that Starlight hate is abundant within the fandom. But it’s not, it’s just the same dozen or so people constantly making noise. 

Another example, I was watching a livestream chat on Rock Solid Friendship. Whenever Starlight appeared, the chat was full of comments about how much she sucks. Only it was the same guy spamming it over and over.

People like to cluster where their opinions are shared, maybe the discords you’re a part of just has a lot of people who don’t like Starlight. Maybe they are even all the same people in different chats like you. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by ShootingStar159

[碇 シンジン 27,433]

People are different and they like different things and dislike different thing. Ultimately the reasons why someone likes or dislikes somethings can be hard to pinpoint since there might be lot of stuff involved in it.

Though I personally feel that it is good to look things through different lenses sometimes and explore on why you think that way and understand better how you perceive different things and view them. 

 

[Jeric 46,860]

16 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

That depends entirely on where your looking, and it hard to tell overall consensus based solely on impressions, especially ones based on the internet. Derpibooru has a very loud group of anti-Starlight’s that make a giant stink about her whenever they can, and it leaves the impression that Starlight hate is abundant within the fandom. But it’s not, it’s just the same dozen or so people constantly making noise. 

I'm pretty well diversified among my fandom interactions online. Some are definitely more caustic than others, I don't dispute that, but it absolutely isn't the same few people sharing their displeasure. I tend to jump in when I see someone going on and on and on about the same freaking thing. 

Though in my experience, the majority views Starlight as just there. Somewhere in the middle. She isn't a fan favorite. Trust me, I wish that wasn't the case. My pecking order goes Rarity > AJ > Starlight. She absolutely has her strong support, but lukewarm seems to be the majority. 

[Singe 2,111]

6 hours ago, ZethaPonderer said:

As for the other side characters, I see this pony Flash Sentry getting hated just for being Twilight's boyfriend. I mean who really cares other than those who consider X and Y pony as their  waifu/husbando material?  for arbitrary reasons.

 

Flash could've been an interesting stallion of a character had the animators gave a damn about the movie in the first place like Silver the Hedgehog in Sonic 2006. *Sigh* Wasted Potential.

 

No clue on the later characters down the line.

Teen romance in cartoons tend to get heat from viewers if the series is not about romance itself, especially if it involves the main character(s). Legend of Korra had Mako haters. Gravity Falls has Wendy haters. Thundercats 2011 had Cheetara be the lightning-rod of haters. Just to name a few, some fans just don't like certain handling of romance as with "love at first sight" which Flash Sentry and Twilight started off as.

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Singe

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

52 minutes ago, Jeric said:

I'm pretty well diversified among my fandom interactions online. Some are definitely more caustic than others, I don't dispute that, but it absolutely isn't the same few people sharing their displeasure. I tend to jump in when I see someone going on and on and on about the same freaking thing. 

Though in my experience, the majority views Starlight as just there. Somewhere in the middle. She isn't a fan favorite. Trust me, I wish that wasn't the case. My pecking order goes Rarity > AJ > Starlight. She absolutely has her strong support, but lukewarm seems to be the majority. 

The point I'm making is that it can be hard to tell based on where you go online. I don’t use the same tag everywhere I go, in fact I purposely keep them different. How do you know other people don’t do the same? That’s what I mean by online impressions aren’t reliable. 

Every public poll I’ve seen backs up the idea that she is more liked than hated, or even tolerated. But even that is influenced by the site hosting the poll. The poll I put up on here? 90% like/love her. I doubt it would be that lopsided if it was somewhere else.

I also don’t believe her fans, or the people who love her, make up a 50%+ majority, but nothing I’ve seen, and I also visit a plethora of fandom sites, suggests the majority merely tolerates her, I get  a mostly positive impression.  The most common neutral opinion I see is “I like her, but I think she’s taking too much time away from the main characters.”

The impression I get after all the looking I’ve done is that Starlight is more popular with casual fans, while the fans who are more attached to the show, and are more active in the fandom, are more likely to have a more negative view. I’ve also noticed that newer people to the show tend to have more positive reactions to other instances of fandom “drama,” like Twilicorn, Flash Sentry, Starlight, the Changling reformation, etc. I suspect it has a lot to do with the echo chamber effect of group think I’ve seen you mention before. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by ShootingStar159

[CastletonSnob 3,079]

2 hours ago, MegaSean45 said:

And how about Spike and Starlight? :3

I can do one for Spike.

 

Spike- Comic books, Cooking, Rarity, Helping others, Hoofball, O&O.

[Libra 11,691]

20 hours ago, ShadOBabe said:

 

 

say what you want about starlight glimmer, but i reallty like kathleen barrs voice acting in this scene.

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

2 minutes ago, Fennekin said:

say what you want about starlight glimmer, but i reallty like kathleen barrs voice acting in this scene.

Are you talking about Mauds VA? Because Starlight is voiced by Kelly Sheridan.

Edited December 7, 2017 by ShootingStar159

[Will Guide 21,362]

3 minutes ago, Fennekin said:

say what you want about starlight glimmer, but i reallty like kathleen barrs voice acting in this scene.

Um...I'm pretty sure Kathleen Barr does The Great and Powerful Trixie, not Starlight.

[Libra 11,691]

6 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

Are you talking about Mauds VA? Because Starlight is voiced by Kelly Sheridan.

 

3 minutes ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

Um...I'm pretty sure Kathleen Barr does The Great and Powerful Trixie, not Starlight.

Oh, i forgot. My bad. Thanks for reminding me.

[KH7672 1,604]

3 hours ago, MegaSean45 said:

And how about Spike and Starlight? :3

Spike-Assisting and Helping out, Cooking, Rarity, Gems (his big interests and personality doesn't start showing up until Season 4 and 5).

Starlight-Magic, Kites, Trixie

And just to be fair to other big characters:

Sunset-Guitar, Athletics, Painting, and Video Games, various other school clubs (Granted half of these were displayed in shorts specifically tailored around this specific interest).

Discord-Causing Chaos, Fluttershy and her interests (but in later seasons).

Edited December 7, 2017 by KH7672

[Celli 4,339]

I think you should stop worrying about what others think, and not let it ruin your enjoyment of the show. I know one guy who was banned here that shall remain unnmamed, but he was crazy because he didn't like the thought that people, god forbid, didn't like season 6. You do you, enjoy the characters you like and don't let anyone tell you you're wrong for doing so. They have no place to do so. Everything in media is subjective, remember that.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Celli

[Jeric 46,860]

1 hour ago, ShootingStar159 said:

How do you know other people don’t do the same?

I can actually answer that ... but the answer would make me sound like the most conceited person on this forum. Ask a staffer one day about my skill set for identifying people. I got game cause people got tells. 

But your point about an echo chamber is a fair one. Yes, I do believe strongly that if left to their own devices absent the cacophonous complaining (meritorious or not), people who feel unfavorable toward Glimmer would have at least withheld judgement. 

[FlareGun45 2,221]

54 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

Spike-Assisting and Helping out, Cooking, Rarity, Gems (his big interests and personality doesn't start showing up until Season 4 and 5).

Starlight-Magic, Kites, Trixie

And just to be fair to other big characters:

Sunset-Guitar, Athletics, Painting, and Video Games, various other school clubs (Granted half of these were displayed in shorts specifically tailored around this specific interest).

Discord-Causing Chaos, Fluttershy and her interests (but in later seasons).

1

Yep! Now there's friendship and reforming added for Starlight, and comic books, O&O, Hoofball, and being racial peacekeeper added to Spike!