Strength Of The Individual In MLP

[Denim&Venöm 16,517]

I was watching an anime analysis vid on Naruto vs. Boku No Hero Academia, how the two start off with sort of opposing ideologies and themes. Naruto has the theme of trusting and working together with others for the good of everyone, while HeroAca believes in striving to better yourself through your own power, and doing good by inspiring others to do the same. 

Video here if you want to see what I mean.

Spoiler

 

This got me to thinking about MLP, and it's overarching message is not too dissimilar to Naruto's. The power of team work and friendship, working together to help everyone and allowing others to help you. 

By contrast, it highlights that MLP lacks any real messages on the strength of the individual. The ability to be independent, to better one's self and achieve goals under your own power. To inspire everyone to be the best individual they can be, rather than relying on others. 

Should this be a message MLP teaches? That there are ways that a situation could be handled by tackling it on your own or how it's even better to do so? That there will be situations where friends won't be there to help and you have to discover the strengths and the means to find your own way out and stand on your own two feet? That through self improvement, you'll find ways to do things on your own and help others that way? Or does such a message ideologically clash w/ MLP's message of friendship and cooperation, that standing on your own is an inferior alternative to workign together with others? 

[Cherry-Pie 176]

I think Twilight Sparkle is the most individualist character. She has a tendency to be off by herself studying. She can easily forget about others in  the persuit of her own interests. Her individualist nature has granted her great power through her study of magic, and she is well respected.  On the other side of that coin though, she is at her best when the other ponies drag her out of her library/castle, and give her a place in the community. So I don't think the show is anti-individualist, I think it's more about building a community of individuals, which is core diversity, and honoring the ways that each individuals talents shine, both in their own lives, and for the purpose of the greater good. Mind you, I believe in individualism myself, and the show does not clash with me at all.   

Edited January 16, 2018 by Cherry-Pie

[Singe 2,109]

Most of the background ponies are individualistic, it's just when the show focuses on an individuality of a character is when it can go in a negative light. Too ambitious, too greedy, not properly able to gauge themselves, power grab, making bad decisions, opportunities to advance one self that clashes with friends, etc.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Singe

[Thrond 3,257]

Especially in recent years, My Little Pony tries to invoke this by way of characters acting as role models. For instance, "Amending Fences" contrasts Twilight's learned values of friendship and empathy with Moondancer's resentful introversion, and uses the positive qualities which Twilight has developed over the series to inspire Moondancer to improve her own life. I contend that My Little Pony's model for this is pretty dry and flat,but it's there.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

My opinion is pretty straightforward on this subject:

[Prospekt 10,984]

I'm very much an individualist and an admirer of 20th century radical individualist Ayn Rand. And I think it is increasingly more difficult to find media that empowers the individual. But the MLP episode The Cutie Map does a good job of articulating a vision of a world that respects individual talents and the ability to determine one's own destiny.

What's another animated series that does a good job with this? The Legend of Korra (predominantly the first season) comes to mind. The first main villain of the show is a genocidal terrorist, Amon, who wishes to impose "equality" by eliminating the "benders," which are beings in the world of Korra and Avatar: The Last Airbender who have the power to manipulate the 4 classic elements (earth, fire, air, and water) in superhuman ways. Amon seeks to suppress the individual by eliminating those who were, of no fault of their own, born with special powers.

[Jeric 46,835]

On 1/14/2018 at 8:34 PM, Denim&Venom said:

Should this be a message MLP teaches? That there are ways that a situation could be handled by tackling it on your own or how it's even better to do so? That there will be situations where friends won't be there to help and you have to discover the strengths and the means to find your own way out and stand on your own two feet?

This is indeed a new angle that I've never considered for the show. Off the top of my head, the two closest episodes that tangentially touch on this in a weird roundabout way are 'Canterlot Wedding' when it's basically Twilight against everyone ... and 'Health of Information' where there is a lesson regarding focusing on yourself in order to be able to help others. I admit it's a stretch though. 

I actually do think that there is a friendship lesson to be had here. Having someone struggle with something and feeling like they need to be alone to figure it out and the other characters keep trying to help and getting in the way with the internal soul searching. In the end it could be the person looking to find the inner strength that teaches the others that somethings have to be worked out alone ... that knowing that there are friends that support you in spirit is helpful and they don't need to be there to hold their hooves everytime. 

Something like that maybe?

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

Right off the top of my head, Flutter Brutter is an episode that contains an individualist theme. Zephyr has to learn to take care of himself and prove he “can do it on my own.” I’m sure I can find other examples in the show. 

The grand overarching theme might be friendship and cooperation, but it doesn’t neglect each character’s individualism to do it. 

[CypherHoof 26,479]

I think MLP espouses both.

Ponies and the Herd are (at least in Ponyville) all about the common good - but the existance of Cutie Marks and their importance in pony society shows that the uniqueness of the individual and their individual skillsets are a core focus too.

The "meaning" of a cutie mark has always been left fairly vague; the originally presented filly view of "a certain something that makes you special" is over-simplistic, but then, so is Starswirl's "a mark of one's destiny, singled out, fulfilled" - a cutie mark MIGHT indicate what career you are best suited for, but it might not - but what it does do is give you a special magic advantage in a single field you are passionate about,  Take Zipporwhill as an example - she gained her "puppy pawprint" cutie mark when she found her pet at the adoption drive Fluttershy organized, but needed to get the help of the CMC to reconnect with her pet (and her cutie mark) when her puppy grew up and no longer wanted to do puppy things.

Will Zipporwhill get a puppy-related job when she grows up? Probably not; there aren't many roles to be had, although its not impossible. But her cutie mark will allow her to grow as a unique individual, regardless of if it is of any advantage to society.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

Wait till anime onlies get to Deku vs. Gentle & La Brava. That incident gives another massive middle finger to FIM logic in more than one way.

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

On 1/14/2018 at 7:34 PM, Lunas Secret Lover said:

I was watching an anime analysis vid on Naruto vs. Boku No Hero Academia, how the two start off with sort of opposing ideologies and themes. Naruto has the theme of trusting and working together with others for the good of everyone, while HeroAca believes in striving to better yourself through your own power, and doing good by inspiring others to do the same. 

Video here if you want to see what I mean.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

This got me to thinking about MLP, and it's overarching message is not too dissimilar to Naruto's. The power of team work and friendship, working together to help everyone and allowing others to help you. 

By contrast, it highlights that MLP lacks any real messages on the strength of the individual. The ability to be independent, to better one's self and achieve goals under your own power. To inspire everyone to be the best individual they can be, rather than relying on others. 

Should this be a message MLP teaches? That there are ways that a situation could be handled by tackling it on your own or how it's even better to do so? That there will be situations where friends won't be there to help and you have to discover the strengths and the means to find your own way out and stand on your own two feet? That through self improvement, you'll find ways to do things on your own and help others that way? Or does such a message ideologically clash w/ MLP's message of friendship and cooperation, that standing on your own is an inferior alternative to workign together with others? 

Strength of the individual is mostly an element of competition. Especially when it applies to kids, competition usually manifests in the form of bullying. But more generally, competition appears to becoming more of a negative trait, and I don't just mean the perception of it. It generally breeds hatred and this isn't something anyone is comfortable promoting in kids. Humans generally have no problem getting aggressive with one another (nobody has to teach kids how to be bullies). What they usually DO need taught though is how to NOT be aggressive. Aggression is primal, and hard-coded into our DNA, while social skills are handled by higher brain functions and need to be taught.

Sure, competitive evolution got us THROUGH the jungle, but it's cooperation that got us OUT of the jungle.

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

A : putting Naruto in an ideological debate is nonsense because in this point, Naruto has become a laughing stock that contradicts itself. If you just say 'Early Naruto' then yes, now it's debatable.

B : I think the very idea of cutie marks are deeply rooted in individualism. That you can't be replaced and you have your unique skills and strengths that only you can contribute to the society or pursue your own goals. The power of teamwork and friendship is just common sense to anyone with a brain.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

14 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Strength of the individual is mostly an element of competition. Especially when it applies to kids, competition usually manifests in the form of bullying. But more generally, competition appears to becoming more of a negative trait, and I don't just mean the perception of it. It generally breeds hatred and this isn't something anyone is comfortable promoting in kids. Humans generally have no problem getting aggressive with one another (nobody has to teach kids how to be bullies). What they usually DO need taught though is how to NOT be aggressive. Aggression is primal, and hard-coded into our DNA, while social skills are handled by higher brain functions and need to be taught.

Sure, competitive evolution got us THROUGH the jungle, but it's cooperation that got us OUT of the jungle.

No seriously, there be villain arc BHA spoilers in here. And it's another massive middle finger to FIM philosophy, which is always a bonus.

Spoiler

 

 

But since you clicked anyway cause you're not a filthy weeb who watches uncultured animated violence, let me tell you that humanity has never been individualistic but tribal and this aggression you speak of never went away. You just refuse to see it. Suppressing this aggression or marking it as bad won't make it disappear either. You'll just create a League of Villains. Children should have been learning how to channel aggression instead. Damn shame.

 

 

Boku no Hero Academia leans towards conviction that competition, even aggressive competition, can be a good thing if it is within the bounds of sensible rules. It elevates competitors and prevents complacency with its "Plus ultra!!!" attitude. We cannot have a healthy market or swift progress without this. Unfortunately, our decadent society is so afraid to acknowledge the normal distribution that everyone needs to get a medal ... Well, except white males. Those are Satan

 

Of course you'll always get people like Endeavor who'll take things in the wrong direction and hurt others in the process. However, that is not the problem of competition but of individuals. No matter what you do, there will always be those that will take things in the wrong direction. And don't take me wrong, there are plenty of philosophies that are shit. I'm looking at you world religions and socialism. "Plus ultra!!!" is one of the better options.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Goat-kun
was not plus ultra enough