S08:E25+26 - School Raze

[Ganondox 899]

  On 2018-08-30 at 8:17 AM, ShootingStar159 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I see quite a few people throw around the idea that Starlight is some kind of psychopath or sociopath, but Cozy Glow is so much closer to that kind of condition it’s not even funny. She doesn’t care about anyone else, and that’s why she wasn’t reformed.

 

Expand  

While I do agree that Cozy Glow's behavior could be considered sociopathic, I'm just going to point out that evil is not a mental pathology. There is a tendency nowdays to equate evil with sociopathy, but they are not the same thing. While sociopathy is not currently considered to be a mental disorder, it's roughly equivalent to Anti-social Personality Disorder. It's considered a disorder not because said people are evil, but because the associated pattern of behavior leads to self-destruction, IIRC most people with the disorder die young, or waste away in prison for the rest of their lives. On the flipside, sociopaths can be good, for example it's been found that neurologically sociopaths and heroes are very similar, and the difference often comes down to childhood and beliefs. There is more to sociopathy than just a lack of empathy, and there is plenty of evil people who are not sociopaths. Of all the characters, it's not Starlight Glimmer or Cozy Glow who best fits the sociopath profile, it's Lightning Dust. While she's definitely not good, she's not exactly evil either. It's because her reckless fits into the profile as well as the lack of concern, the only thing Cozy Glow has on her is her pathological lying. So yeah, just a warning to avoid conflating evil with sociopathy even though it's tempting at times. 

[DonMaguz 1,023]

- Cozy Glow is a great character with a major WTF concept, her being a filly doesn't make any sense. She is a greatly entertaining villain.

- The student 6 were great, but they had better episodes (What Lies Beneath and The Hearth's Warming Club).

- I liked the CMC's involvement in the finale.

- The whole tartarus subplot was such an obvious way to get the mane 6 7 (sorry Spike) out of the plot, that it made it just boring for me.

Finally, not about the episode but the season:

- The mane 6 had their most underwhelming season to date.

[RDDash 19,211]

I think the worst part for me is that Cozy Glow feels like a throwaway villain, just some kid shows up out of nowhere, (one of the main reasons that makes her forgettable)  then somehow she manages to fool seven grown adults, six teenagers, and three preschoolers who never saw it coming. In the season finale Cozy Glow makes lots of mistakes, she starts  monologuing her evil plan to Starlight, she completely exposed herself in front of Neighsay Look at me I am so evil, its not like you can do anything about it. Oh, by the way I am just going to leave you here alive. Even if she hated him at least she could do is to make sure that he would stay on her side no matter what. She already won, Neighsay wanted to frame student six for the crimes of stealing magic she could have easily get away with it with nopony been the wiser.

Edited September 9, 2018 by R.D.Dash

[Ganondox 899]

  On 2018-08-30 at 6:32 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

@RulesofRarity

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Starlight lost her only friend as a filly due to circumstances beyond her control. An event like what she went through can paint her whole worldview for the rest of her life. Cutie marks were a trauma trigger to her, and she concocted that spell and created that cult so it never happens again.
2. The RM5 were initially defensive of Starlight after she, Twi, and Spike returned from that time loop, but after Twilight explained everything, they eased up. Having her suffer more consequences doesn't work, because she's asking for help, and adding more just piles it on, a complete contradiction of what FIM stands for. Exiling her won't work, because you're restarting and proving her right. Punishment won't work for reasons stated already. Teaching her and helping her evolve is what will truly help her grow.

 

Expand  

I'd also argue that becoming Twilight's friend WAS her "punishment". Of course it didn't actually hurt her, but it's not like she was free to do whatever she wanted during that period of time. Couldn't do the same thing with Cozy Glow because she was ALREADY Twilight's assistant, her problems are much different than Starlight Glimmer's. 

[Ganondox 899]

  On 2018-09-01 at 1:05 AM, Senko said:

Ok my views . . ..

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

1) There's something weird going on with the magic here Tirek stole Pegasus and Earth Pony magic but cosy's scheme only seems to affect unicorn magic which is odd.

2) Poor CMC's just a throwaway joke. Same with Starlight being caught off camera and no Discord sigh.

3) With regard to Cozy's fate this comes back to what I've said before about age of responsability. As we've seen with the CMC's there does seem to be a bit of "if you have your cutie mark you're old enough to take responsability for things". The CMC's are being called in by adults to help with their foals cutie marks for example. So Cutie may be getting judged as an adult not a child in pony eyes.

4) Related to the above lot of people are saying its bad throwing a filly in prison for life but there's a few things we don't know. One is she there for life, for a period of time (it does seem to be the only pony jail) or just being held in a safe place until her trial. Ponies might be putting more emphasis on true remorse in judging someone than any legal methods and Cozy has shown she feels none as demonstrated at the end. Starlight and the others were saved by the flying members of their class but the magic just vanished for all we know dozens of ponies could have been injured or even killed by her scheme. They use a lot of magic in their construction work as just one dangerous field where a sudden failure could easily kill someone.

5) Tartarus was a bit of a dissapointment as aside from Tirek and the bugbear its pretty much all animals. Animals we've seen are capable of living free (everfree forest) or even being domesticated (the manticore bowing next to Trixie in her show). They could have at least had shadowy figures off in the distance. Also what is going on with letting young ponies be pen pals with one of the worst villains Equestria has seen?

6) Those school ponies have a LOT of apologizing to do, I see many remedial lessons in their future. Also everyone now know's about the sub basement with the friendship tree in it. We also know why his teleporting looked different it wasn't his magic doing it but an artifact.

7) Nice that Neighsay's apology came about as a result of being directly shown ponies can be evil and teaching other races about friendship can have long term benefits.

8) The student 6 trying to graduate as they saved Equestria puzzled me as well where was Spike getting those graduation scrolls from as Celestia was standing right there.

9) Interesting new filly with that rainbow hair at the start.

10 Cozy really wormed her way into Twilight's graces weird she had a student as an assitant.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Yep I noticed that as well curious though it makes sense for her. Then again there were a lot of balls just floating around in random places which was strange as well.

EDIT

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Another difference is Starlight's big revenge scheme was preventing Twilight and the others from being friends nothing more, when she found out how big a change that made she backed down. At which point only she, Twilight and Spike even know about it and Twilight says she's not a bad pony.

 

Cozy on the other hand tried to steal magic from all Equestria, committed treason and tried to set herself up as Queen. When she was stopped her response was "I will have my revenge and everyone knew it was her Including Celestia and Luna.

 

 

Expand  

I though Twilight's Kingdom made it pretty clear that Earth Ponies have magic as well, this episode clarified there is a magical creature category that pegasai fall under. 

[BastementSparkle 20,334]

  On 2018-09-09 at 3:53 AM, Califorum said:

The rest of the video wasn't really working for me unfortunately. How the student 6 get out of the orb with little reason is a bullcrap excuse for them, quite frankly, the moral at the end is fine. Cozy glow going to Tartarus with Tirek was amazing, I'd like to see a fanfic about their conversations.

Expand  

It wasn't really little reason, the Tree of Harmony protected them, it was set up in "What lies below" that the tree is growing and gaining new abilities, and that it also has an interest in the Student six, as it went out of it's way to try and help teach them a lesson. Cozy assumed the tree's magic would be drained too, but apparently the tree is above that.

[DonMaguz 1,023]

  On 2018-09-09 at 4:17 AM, BasementSparkle said:

Cozy assumed the tree's magic would be drained too, but apparently the tree is above that.

Expand  

Or rather... beneath that. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I'll walk myself out now.

 

[gingerninja666 487]

  On 2018-09-09 at 3:15 AM, R.D.Dash said:

I think the worst part for me is that Cozy Glow feels like a throwaway villain, just some kid shows up out of nowhere, (one of the main reasons that makes her forgettable)  then somehow she manages to fool seven grown adults, six teenagers, and three preschoolers who never saw it coming. In the season finale Cozy Glow makes lots of mistakes, she starts  monologuing her evil plan to Starlight, she completely exposed herself in front of Neighsay Look at me I am so evil, its not like you can do anything about it. Oh, by the way I am just going to leave you here alive. Even if she hated him at least she could do is to make sure that he would stay on her side no matter what. She already won, Neighsay wanted to frame student six for the crimes of stealing magic she could have easily get away with it with nopony been the wiser.

Expand  

I think for people who like Cozy as a villain that's what they liked. That she's just this evil as hell manipulative child who pops out of nowhere and has been in the background being really offputting, with us waiting for the shoe to drop.

[cuteycindyhoney 13,316]

  On 2018-08-15 at 7:51 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

Note: @Jeric

1.   Reveal hidden contents

    

    

2.   Reveal hidden contents

    

    

    

Expand  

YES! Now I have preserved on multiple devices, and external HardDrive/thumb drives, Season 01 episode 01, through season 8 episode 26! I'm fully pony loaded!   I also have the movie, and all the Equestria Girls movies and specials. That's a lot of viewing pleasure!

Netflix...EAT YOUR HEART OUT!

Edited September 9, 2018 by cuteycindyhoney

[Plonkett 345]

  On 2018-09-08 at 4:14 AM, RaphLuna said:

 

can this show get any Tackier... I mean Come on A Pushy young Filly Pegasus outsmarts them all.. and they are far to clueless to see it.,

Lame... the Show whent from Awesome, To Building Up Steam, to going of the track, and into a crash.

you can tell by the laziness they are Shoving this show out the door..

by the ending looks like the students 6 got more studies crammed on them again..

even when Chrylisis got involved that episode was Tacky as Hell.. they make the evil villans look very weak And so easy to defeat them or foil their plans so easy.

Hasbro can really make great shows way better than this slop, had they not fire the real creative writers, and replace them  for tacky Lazy Writers. 

However they own MLP Franchise, and Know how to play loyal fans to their advantage, as long as we follow their brand like loyal Zobbies Buying the Merch from the shows..

they will sink so low to make G4 so tacky just so they can Justify a G5 Reboot,and you bet Hasbro is licking their chops seeing your wallet, as you as loyal Pony Fans Line up in the masses to Buy their Merch tagged to the G5 Reboot Brand..

sad.. they can make G4 an Amazing Show, however they care more about Merch sales than TV Shows.

Expand  

Correction, the experienced writers left to work on other projects, they didn't get fired.

[Ganondox 899]

Okay, time for my thoughts on this episode. I don't even know where to start, because I have so much to say and in any sort of linear order. I guess I'll start with expectations. 

I was one of the people who saw the synopsis for the final before Season 8 was even out, and I really wish it was leaked as it basically ruined Cozy Glow's entire arc (which was really well down with lots of subtle hints, but it's too obvious when you know she's going to do something bad later on), but there is a few things that managed to surprise me. For example, I thought Tirek and Cozy Glow were going to be reformed at the end (due to the Season 9 leak), but it turns out they weren't, and I'm glad because Tirek strikes me as the one villain who cannot be redeemed. I do kinda feel sorry for him now though. The other thing I wasn't expecting was for Tirek to actually be behind it, nice double subversion there. I think the promotional team did a good job covering the gaffe up with the second half of the season trailer, successfully duping many people into thinking Neighsay would be the villain. I didn't fall for it as it seemed out of character for him and I correctly suspected the opposite was going on as we were being leaded, but they did good job at setting up the stage for this episode. One thing in particular is that they used Friendship U to imply that Cozy Glow was working for Neighsay, but it was just a red herring. This was the first season were they really built up the antagonists throughout it, and it really paid off in the end. 

Speaking of our antagonists, Cozy Glow might just be the best villain this show has ever had. Really what it comes down is Cozy Glow is who I think Sunset Shimmer (the concept of Celestia's failed protege) should have been, showing that friendship can be used for evil as well as good. The other thing about Cozy Glow is that she's *nice*, driving in the point of my favorite line from a musical ever, "Nice is different from good". Too often villains are mean, when the real bad guys generally aren't. This leads to her foil, Neighsay, a genuinely loathsome character, but one who is fundamentally good, he's just racist. This episode also shows that he DID have a point, as we see friendship CAN be used as a weapon in the wrong hands, he was just wrong about who that was. On a related note, was it ONLY Equestria that was affected? If so, Neighsay had a really good case to suspect the student six, especially when it turned out a student was behind it after all. There was a couple minor things with Cozy Glow that didn't work well though. First, I wish they came up with a better way for Sandbar to learn that Cozy Glow is evil than her monolouging like an idiot and laughing like a maniac, she's better than that so it was just lazy writing. Second, why did she situate her spell by the tree of harmony. I figured the tree was part of her plan, but it wasn't mentioned in any of the nonsense Ocellus went on about when explaining how the spell worked. In the end all the tree did was ruin her plan when apparently she could have just done it in like a closet somewhere that nobody uses and is also tree free. 

Really Cozy Glow's spell and everything relating to it was a huge disappointment. The resolution was a borderline deus ex machina, only being redeemed by the fact that the students turned on Cozy Glow after they saw the student's sacrifice (which was a pretty lame sacrifice as they were completely ineffective at rescuing Gallus and might have well just have been dragged in without helping), and the fact they still had to remove the artifacts on their own. And while it's nice to see the elements linked with the Student Six (for the record, apparently Yona is honesty, Silver Stream is Laughter, Sandbar is Kindness, Gallus is Magic, Smolder is Loyalty, and Ocellus is Generosity), it's not like we actually saw them acting as their elements in this episode. For example, it was Sandbar who demonstrated loyalty, while Smolder demonstrated honesty. The way it turned out was okay, but it could have been done better. 

The real problem I have with this episode is the Tartarus subplot. Locking the mane six in Tartarus to get them out of the picture was fine, but having them break out didn't add anything to the plot as they couldn't do anything once they escaped (I guess things could have ended badly if they stayed in one all the creatures got their magic back, but it could have ended fine and it's not like the creatures were even needed in the first place) so all it actually did was make Tartarus come across as incredibly lame (and Tirek self-defeating, he couldn't stand his own revenge). Really, all it takes to get out is MAGIC, and then instead of being housed with great villains like Tirek all we see is a bunch of random animals in cages, most of which we've seen before. It's really quite sad to see animals like the manticore (the only one we've seen prior wasn't even bad) caged up like that. The one bit of solace is that it's implied this isn't how Tartarus normally is (Princess Luna: Be careful. Tartarus has changed since you were there. It now holds many dangerous creatures, and you won't be able to rely on your magic.), and judging by the brief glimpse of Tartarus we saw in Twilight's Kingdom we've only seen a small fraction on it. I believe the creatures are just being held there as an extra security measure after Tirek broke out the first time, and that the real prisoners are on the other pillars which weren't explored beyond Tirek's. Last thing about Tartarus, my gut reaction to Cozy Glow being set to Tartarus was that it was wrong to send a filly there, but considering what she actually did and WHO she really is (just because she's a filly doesn't mean she isn't accountable), it's perfectly appropriate. Plus, it's not like it's actually going to be bad, she's imprisoned next to her best friend! And this time she has no power to gain from it, they're just going to be talking with each other because they are bored. Maybe those two will reform after all. 

Overall, I think this could have been the best two parter the show has had, but in execution it had too many problems. I still liked it a lot, but it's far from perfect. 

[Dark Qiviut 22,461]

  On 2018-09-09 at 5:30 AM, Ganondox said:

The resolution was a borderline deus ex machina, only being redeemed by the fact that the students turned on Cozy Glow after they saw the student's sacrifice

Expand  

Gonna cut you off here. This wasn't a DEM or a borderline one. The Tree showed sentience twice during the season: What Lies Beneath and The Mean Six. This episode backs this up.

  On 2018-09-09 at 5:30 AM, Ganondox said:

it's not like we actually saw them acting as their elements in this episode. For example, it was Sandbar who demonstrated loyalty, while Smolder demonstrated honesty.

Expand  

A lot about their auras calls back not just from actions seen in this episode specifically, but ones previously, including What Lies Beneath and HW Club.

Silverstream: Retaining optimism after Sandbar presumably ditched them, and she's the only one of the six to give Neighsay any benefit of the doubt after he teleported to Canterlot Castle.

Gallus: Stopped his friends from fighting by admitting guilt in his scheme, worked with Smolder to rescue the others, and openly revealed his claustrophobia to encourage Silverstream to stand up to the Storm King.

Ocellus: Explained the purpose of Cozy's vortex spell (a callback from Celestial Advice) and the consequences of potentially canceling it, turned into a larger bite-acuda to save Dash and AJ, and never fell asleep while the RM6 taught under EEA-specific guidelines.

Yona: Stood up for Smolder after Cozy racially profiled her, proved Rockhoof how important he is to everyone, admitted to being deathly arachnophobic.

Also, despite being possible successors, they're taught all the elements, and their actions back that up.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[Frostgage 7,976]

Great finale <3

I still think Cozy Glow is Chrysalis and you can't convince me otherwise lol

[gingerninja666 487]

  Reveal hidden contents

So here’s my read on Cozy’s plan.

Step 1: Get involved in Twilight’s school. I think she genuinely struggled here because she really doesn’t get friendship. So she got the CMC to help her out. She tried to get the CMC enrolled so that they could be alongside her at all times, but she miscalculated Twi’s reaction and needed to pivot to Starlight. She feigned guilt and got them jobs as tutors anyway, looking like a promising student of Twilight’s in the process.

Step 2: Become a model pupil that Twi and the school could depend on. I think the thing with Flim and Flam happened here. Either she did it to get Twi away from the school for a while so she could tinker with the artifacts or something, or she wanted to create more problems for Twilight so that she could be there to help keep the school going.

Step 3: Try to turn the student 6 against themselves. She likely saw them as the only group who could potentially pose a threat to her, so she tried to impede their progress together such that they would more likely defer to her later on. This backfires but she managed to pull it back by feigning guilt and saving them from a potential problem with Twilight.

Step 4: Drain the magic from Equestria. She put the idea that Tirek was the cause in their heads. This would send the gang away to Tartarus, where they would become trapped. Cozy would then use the fears of the crisis to become the school’s saviour (one of Ocellus' lines implies this) and maybe even more than that, as people wouldn’t know what to do without magic. Cozy would be there to help them.

 

[bwrosas 252]

Now this is the kind of Season 8 finale that is popcorn worthy.  And to suffice to say 

  Reveal hidden contents

Cozy has a (among 1'000) screws loose. I mean how can a filly like misnterpeite Friendship = Power and control over Equestria? Some filly in need of 1000 years of psychology counseling, to tell the differences. 

 

[Ganondox 899]

  On 2018-09-09 at 7:06 AM, Dark Qiviut said:

Gonna cut you off here. This wasn't a DEM or a borderline one. The Tree showed sentience twice during the season: What Lies Beneath and The Mean Six. This episode backs this up.

A lot about their auras calls back not just from actions seen in this episode specifically, but ones previously, including What Lies Beneath and HW Club.

Silverstream: Retaining optimism after Sandbar presumably ditched them, and she's the only one of the six to give Neighsay any benefit of the doubt after he teleported to Canterlot Castle.

Gallus: Stopped his friends from fighting by admitting guilt in his scheme, worked with Smolder to rescue the others, and openly revealed his claustrophobia to encourage Silverstream to stand up to the Storm King.

Ocellus: Explained the purpose of Cozy's vortex spell (a callback from Celestial Advice) and the consequences of potentially canceling it, turned into a larger bite-acuda to save Dash and AJ, and never fell asleep while the RM6 taught under EEA-specific guidelines.

Yona: Stood up for Smolder after Cozy racially profiled her, proved Rockhoof how important he is to everyone, admitted to being deathly arachnophobic.

Also, despite being possible successors, they're taught all the elements, and their actions back that up.

Expand  

And I'm going to continue, because you're not correcting anything. First off, if we're going to debating semantics, sentience means to be capable of subjective experience, it has nothing to do with autonomy or ability to reason. So don't go around about how it's technically not a DEM or whatever else when you aren't using words correctly yourself. Anyway, I don't know why people think the tree's actions in Mean 6 are so significant, it's been doing stuff since it's been introduced, and it's just a matter of interpretation whether it's a deliberate action or a reflex. This episode is no exception,  the only actual exception is What Lies Beneath. In this episode we didn't see the tree choose to save the student six, we saw some poorly defined elements of harmony related power activate. If it could just free ponies at will then why didn't it free Starlight? As such the tree's autonomy doesn't actually matter. While the tree's power's are vague at best and it appears to act arbitrarily, my issue was never not knowing what the tree could potentially be capable of, it's that it's a plot device that is not used in a manner that relates to the characters choices in a logical manner.  

In the Greek plays that invented the trope, the gods were well-defined characters, more so than the Tree of Harmony. That didn't make it any less lame when they intervened out of nowhere in order to resolve the conflict. While DEM is often criticized for being lazy and illogical, the bigger problem is that it removes autonomy from the characters. The essence of the climax of a work is that the characters need to make some decision that will resolve the conflict, for better or worse. In a Deus Ex Machina, the characters typically made chooses that doomed them, but the author didn't want the characters to be doomed so they used a cheap shot to save them. Depending on the themes of the work or where in the plot arc it falls that may be okay, but in this case it wouldn't be good. Now, if we assume they activated some sort of element of harmony power rather than the tree finally deciding to intervene then it was connected to the character's actions, but what pushes it into DEM territory is that no such ability was previously defined so there was no reason to believe that the character's actions would lead to their salvation. Even if it's technically not a DEM for other reasons, what makes it not a DEM from pragmatic standpoint is that it didn't actually resolve the conflict, it just resets a setback in the plan. As it is it works, but I think it would have been better if the other student's saved them instead once they realized what Cozy Glow was doing was wrong. Then again, I think the whole scene should have been reworked. 

Regarding the particular elements they represent, I'm going to clarify that my issue wasn't with the assignments, it's with the fact The Student Six didn't actually do much this episode, sorry for not being more clear. If the student six aren't actually doing anything related to the elements, then for the sake of the episode why does it matter which one they get assigned? Also, some of the examples you gave are really stretching it for how they relate to the supposed element. If they are going to through away all subtlety at the end then they should have been more clear earlier on, as was the case in the pilot, otherwise why even bother with the symbolism if it's meaning can't be picked up?  

[Oleks 1,993]

And some people said pegasi can’t be big villains.

  Reveal hidden contents

Well, this finale had its good and bad moments, but in general it was decent, IMO. Having a manipulative non-magic user villain for a change was kinda refreshing. And the fact that the Student Six saved the day is what was expected from this season. My favorite parts were Pinkie vs Tirek, Sandbar throwing things, and Cozy Glow in general.

Now about not so great parts. If the previous season finale made me feel like they had too many interesting characters and too little screen time for them, this time they just didn’t know what to do with all the screen time, so they threw in a pointless CMC subplot (at first I was glad the CMCs had a part in the finale, but then… the closet happened) and the Tartarus thing. And I totally agree that Tartarus was a huge disappointment. I felt bad for the caged creatures too – not cool.

Then, some stupid questions I have, that will never be answered, because it’s too much to ask from a cartoon like this. Who delivered mail to Tartarus? Why wasn’t it censored? Do they feed the Tartarus prisoners? Where did Cozy Glow come from, and what made her like this? How did Star Swirl know the details about “three days”? Who raised the sun if there was no magic? Why did they throw a foal in prison? OK, I’ll shut up.

It seems there will be a great villain coalition in the next season, so all the epicness is saved for later. And it makes me really look forward for Season 9.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

  Reveal hidden contents

Cozy Glow sounds cooler in Danish. (Maybe i am the only one who like Denmark version of Cozy Glow)

Cozy finally takes Starlight place as the best villain of the entire show. The underdog villain is always the best villain, think of a non-unicorn pony with Sombra level of calculation, more ruthless than pre-reformation Starlight,  better actress than the changeling kingdom combine. When Cozy was sentenced to Tartarus, i bet some people think it is a part of her plan too, that's how badass she is.   

I got Cozy Glowed, guy. I cant get her evil face out of my head right now

 

[GiFTGewEhrSCHutzen-4 8,828]

Well, glad that Neighsay has seen that Non-Ponies are not bad after what Cozy did. And also since she's a new villain now, guess we might have more seasons of MLP-FIM to come? And also like that they showed the monsters from previous episodes like that Bug Bear, Manticore, Chimera, and the Cockatrice. As for Cozy, I did not see her being a villain coming. D:

Also, love the part in which Pinkie drives Tirek crazy like hell. And also, like the scene with Sandbar throwing apples and some objects, though I don't know if that cow was there being a coincidence or Sandbar was really planning to throw the cow as well, just for laughs. Also like that there's a female Canterlot Royal Guard added.

As for next season, here's hoping that Chrysalis returns and perhaps a team up with Cozy in the future?

 

 

[Mesme Rize 15,687]

Okay, i really don't know where to start, so let's get the obvious out of the way.

  Reveal hidden contents

Okay, first of all, the biggest problem i had with this episode was the tartarus subplot. I felt like the writers just put it in there, because the fans demanded a tartarus episode for years, but they just didn't had any ideas how to put it in there. In the end, what we got was not only pointless, but also stupid and made everyone involved look like idiots. They thought that tirek was behind all of this, but they should know how Tirek actually gets all of his magic, which is through actual contact with ponies. So how is he supposed to do it, with him being inside Tartarus? And it also made Tirek look like an idiot later, because he admits that he didn't thought his plan through of Cozy Glow draining all of the magic away, eventhough we should believe that Tirek is that big smart and mighty conquerer.

Speaking of Cozy Glow, her sudden reveal as the main villain of this arc would even make M. Night Shymalan give a headache. She is such a bland character, even when she was still good. I have no idea why any of the ponies should listen to her and why she even has that high of a status in the school to begin with. She is the worst character in the history of the show. But hey, she gets thrown into tartarus, eventhough that's totally against the morals of the show.

I won't spend alot of time on Neighsay, because then i would 100 of comments here that would rather fit in a political debate, but i never liked his character from the start. He is a cookle cutter racist character that has no other traits then "i hate non-ponies." So i will leave it at that.

The CMC where also pointless and tricked like idiots, so yeah thanks for coming.

I will say this though, the student 6 where okay in what they did. Though, concerning the whole story structure, i think they could've pulled out their big moment better, instead of another deus ex machina by the elements. Also, how did Starlight get captured in the first place?

Conclusion, big thumbs down from me. I was actually positive about this, because most of season 8 was great. But this finale was just a bunch of ideas thrown into it that never fit at any point at any time.

So yeah, maybe it's time to close the book now in Season 9

 

[VeroxVitrus 71]

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Yet again MLP shoots it's self in the leg with another poorly executed finale. (This one was worser than last seasons). I hated how the episode threw the CMC away as soon as it brought them into the plot and made them as useful as a plane with no wings. The mane 6 was pushed aside, it was like the writers didn't want them in the story so they threw them in a room for the majority of the episode. Tirek was made incredibly weak (the bad guy from the best season finale Twilight's Kingdom, who completely destroyed twilight's library, caused absolute mayhem and had a giant battle sequence with twilight) all it took was pinkie to annoy him and he wanted them gone. Also the bars weren't that small on tireks cage, he could of just stepped through them and destroyed the Mane 6 (or at least have an epic fight sequence which the episode is in dire need of as it rests on it's hospital bed on life support with IV's being pumped into it with a incompetent doctor bouncing on it's chest like it was a bouncy castle) 

This is possibly the worst season finale yet

 

 

[Jeric 46,866]

  On 2018-09-09 at 9:31 AM, Ganondox said:

And I'm going to continue, because you're not correcting anything. First off, if we're going to debating semantics, sentience means to be capable of subjective experience, it has nothing to do with autonomy or ability to reason. So don't go around about how it's technically not a DEM or whatever else when you aren't using words correctly yourself. Anyway, I don't know why people think the tree's actions in Mean 6 are so significant, it's been doing stuff since it's been introduced, and it's just a matter of interpretation whether it's a deliberate action or a reflex. This episode is no exception,  the only actual exception is What Lies Beneath. In this episode we didn't see the tree choose to save the student six, we saw some poorly defined elements of harmony related power activate. If it could just free ponies at will then why didn't it free Starlight? As such the tree's autonomy doesn't actually matter. While the tree's power's are vague at best and it appears to act arbitrarily, my issue was never not knowing what the tree could potentially be capable of, it's that it's a plot device that is not used in a manner that relates to the characters choices in a logical manner.  

In the Greek plays that invented the trope, the gods were well-defined characters, more so than the Tree of Harmony. That didn't make it any less lame when they intervened out of nowhere in order to resolve the conflict. While DEM is often criticized for being lazy and illogical, the bigger problem is that it removes autonomy from the characters. The essence of the climax of a work is that the characters need to make some decision that will resolve the conflict, for better or worse. In a Deus Ex Machina, the characters typically made chooses that doomed them, but the author didn't want the characters to be doomed so they used a cheap shot to save them. Depending on the themes of the work or where in the plot arc it falls that may be okay, but in this case it wouldn't be good. Now, if we assume they activated some sort of element of harmony power rather than the tree finally deciding to intervene then it was connected to the character's actions, but what pushes it into DEM territory is that no such ability was previously defined so there was no reason to believe that the character's actions would lead to their salvation. Even if it's technically not a DEM for other reasons, what makes it not a DEM from pragmatic standpoint is that it didn't actually resolve the conflict, it just resets a setback in the plan. As it is it works, but I think it would have been better if the other student's saved them instead once they realized what Cozy Glow was doing was wrong. Then again, I think the whole scene should have been reworked. 

Regarding the particular elements they represent, I'm going to clarify that my issue wasn't with the assignments, it's with the fact The Student Six didn't actually do much this episode, sorry for not being more clear. If the student six aren't actually doing anything related to the elements, then for the sake of the episode why does it matter which one they get assigned? Also, some of the examples you gave are really stretching it for how they relate to the supposed element. If they are going to through away all subtlety at the end then they should have been more clear earlier on, as was the case in the pilot, otherwise why even bother with the symbolism if it's meaning can't be picked up?  

Expand  

DEM requires an inability for the reader is audience to predict an outcome. That isn't semantics it's part of the definition. If you couldn't see the final act coming a mile away, that is on you. 

[CastletonSnob 3,079]

The Mane Six were kind of bad in the first part.

  Reveal hidden contents

Twilight telling Starlight that she did the spell wrong felt like something she'd say in S1, not S8, and Rarity was annoying.

 

[Dethde 20]

  On 2018-09-09 at 2:11 AM, Ganondox said:

While I disagree with pretty much everything you said, the one thing I’m going to comment on is your claim that Cozy Glow feels autistic. I have no idea how you could come to that conclusion, she’s about as far from autistic as you can get as it would be nigh impossible for someone with autism to manipulate crowds like she did. Her problem is not that she doesn’t understand friendship (yes, I know what Twilight said, but context), she had them all fooled, it’s that she’s freaking evil. There is nothing autistic about that. 

Expand  

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I'll say that i was mainly focusing on Autism' other symptoms, but it's entirely possible for an autistic patient to lie. She's spent a long time in Twi's School, yet she's still ignoring other's feelings, being obsessive over MoF, constantly lying, and other behaviors that pointed me to that conclusion. However yes, it's unlikely for an autistic person to manipulate like she did, i will say that.

Are you sure the problem isn't that she doesn't understand friendship? Because her not understanding friendship and directly relating it to power is the exact reason she planned the takeover in the episode, pointed out several times by Cozy herself and Twilight.

 

I respect that you disagree with my opinion, however it'd be better if you point out everything else you disagree about, so that i can get a better understanding of your points.

[RulesofRarity 493]

  On 2018-09-09 at 4:15 PM, VG_Addict said:

The Mane Six were kind of bad in the first part.

  Reveal hidden contents

Twilight telling Starlight that she did the spell wrong felt like something she'd say in S1, not S8, and Rarity was annoying.

 

Expand  

  Reveal hidden contents

Yeah that comment from Twilight made no sense to me, she knows how good Starlight is at magic.