Male Alicorns?

[Forlong 1,725]

Why has no pony made a Princess Big Mac joke?

 

I think stallions have just as much alicorn potential as mares, it's just that most are mares because the show is meant for girls.

[Ashley 2,427]

I believe that Alicorns are a royalty only, solely female race. A child of two alicorns that is a male will become a pegasus or unicorn. Outside of OCs, they do not exist.

Due to genetics, an alicorn is not and can not be a cross between a unicorn and a pegasus, by the way.

[Scootadress 360]

I do believe that:

 

A.) Alicorns can only reproduce with other Alicorns. They can still have intimate relations with normal ponies, but can't make children (Which is unlucky for Cadence and Shinning Armour)

 

B.) Male Alicorns do exist, but are yet to be shown on the show. I have created several alicorn OC's (for fan-story purposes, not the be my primary OC), but of course, that's just fanon. Unless Alicorns reproduce asexually, then males must exist.

I question A. Its simply too weird. Cadence is an alicorn, for how long? Not very, but I'm sure she doesn't realize the fact that she  would outlive Shinning Armour. Remember:She hasn't been an Alicorn for long. I'm assuming they live as long as the representative of whatever lives. I mean, look at her cutiemark! She must have lived longer then when the Crystal Empire fell. To say she can't have kids is a step too far. Princess Skyla remember? The bad recolor of Sweetie Belle with wings.

Probably a unicorn. and possibly Celestia is the mother....

 

 

I beg to differ. They are pastel colored. makes all the difference, you see.

 

Top right corner. Something is something, right?

Wasn't Cadence a pegasus to start? Her mother could be 2 pegasi and she was TURNED into an Alicorn. Also:SOMEONE TRANSLATE THIS. NOW. 

[Betez 1,734]

Well, since the only Alicorns we've seen on the show are not only female, but all princesses, I'm gonna have to say yes. At least for the show, I guess all Alicorns are female. However, outside of the show, that's obviously a completely different story.

[Ihei 711]

I'm pretty sure it will be in a future season. You know, male alicorns. I'm pretty sure they'd add it sooner or later. But I'm confused on why Prince Blueblood isn't an alicorn though. So it might only be females.

[Silver Letter 1,830]

Alicorns are simply the most special of beings in Equestria, being above the normalcy of the three pony types. I understand that if another Alicorn is to be created than it is done via the will of Celestia as was learned. They don’t create one by any other means as far as we know. And they are most likely to be solely female which would be preferable for the show anyway.

[Thrashy 2,799]

Until Faust or somebody else who works on the show verifies it, the fact that so far all alicorns have been female means absolutely nothing.

 

...Not to mention, for a race that holds such high positions of power to be exclusively female would be just a tad...well, let's call it out for what it is: sexist.

[Silver Letter 1,830]

Until Faust or somepony else who works on the show verifies it, the fact that so far all alicorns have been female means absolutely nothing.

 

...Not to mention, for a race that holds such high positions of power to be exclusively female would be just a tad...well, let's call it out for what it is: sexist.

It’s a television show with a core audience that’s younger fillies. It’s not sexist any more than it would be for the "Lord of the Rings" to depict essentially all rulers of that fictional world as being male.

[The Pony Alchemist 70]

 

 

Also:SOMEONE TRANSLATE THIS. NOW. 

Will do: top paragraph: But when approaching the prince, she discovers ... a small pony four years.  "I present to you, my little cousin, Leon." Announces Celestia.

Bottom paragraph: "Today, I was impressed by the strength of your dreams and your sacrifice all to realize that Rarity. To reward you, I invite you to enjoy a private banquet. Rarity will be able to waltz through the night with my nephew Vladimir. Dreams to meet you, I think?"

I am still working on my french grammar, but hope this helps you

[Zygen 6,065]

Well I assume there is more then just female Alicorns, its just the main royalty of Equestria seems to be Princesses, and I assume you have to be of royalty or something to become an Alicorn. like when Twilight became a Princess she became one. 

 

I assume they're just not prominently shown yet because they don't have a role to play? Idk.

 

I assume there are Male Alicorns, just we haven't seen them in the show really.

 

Well actually I think there have been Royal guard Alicorns, so idk. But that might just be animation glitches.

[John 793]

As far as the show goes, it is currently unknown.

As far as fandom goes, this is wrong. I, Nightfall, for one, am male and an alicorn.

No!  No more multicolored overpowered alicorn OC!  You pick 1 race!  ONEEE RACCCEEE!!!!  And nothing more!  Kim Jong Un will oversee your creation process.

No!  No more multicolored overpowered alicorn OC!  You pick 1 race!  ONEEE RACCCEEE!!!!  And nothing more!  Kim Jong Un will oversee your creation process.

 

 

Nah, its not beneficial yet for Greedsbro to introduce a male Alicorn character.  When the time comes, they I'm sure that they will.

[Thrashy 2,799]

It’s a television show with a core audience that’s younger fillies. It’s not sexist any more than it would be for the "Lord of the Rings" to depict essentially all rulers of that fictional world as being male.

 

Um...yeah, LOTR's case is kind of sexist, actually. Whether a society is patriarchal, like LOTR, or matriarchal, it is of no difference; when one sex holds exclusive rights to power, the other is necessarily subjugated - ergo, sexism. Frankly, the concept of matriarchy is just as loathsome to me as patriarchy.

 

If the world of MLP is anywhere near as utopian as it appears to be, then there needs to be male alicorns in power somewhere in the world. Otherwise, the implication is thus: If alicorns hold the highest seats of power, and if all alicorns are indeed female, then a male can never hold a position of power. Or at least, never hold a position anywhere near as high as those of the princesses. And if there really does exist such a ceiling through which males can never break, then equality between the sexes is merely an illusion, no matter how hunky-dory things seem on the surface.

 

The main point I'm trying to get across is, unless males and females can be on equal footing in terms of ruling a nation, then males and females aren't really on equal footing as a whole. And speaking as someone who's all for equality, I say let there be male alicorns.

 

...And before anyone cites Sombra as an example, he don't count. Not an alicorn. Also, unabashedly EVIL.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Lowline Thrash

[Silver Letter 1,830]

Um...yeah, LOTR's case is kind of sexist, actually. Whether a society is patriarchal, like LOTR, or matriarchal, it is of no difference; when one sex holds exclusive rights to power, the other is necessarily subjugated - ergo, sexism. Frankly, the concept of matriarchy is just as loathsome to me as patriarchy.

 

If the world of MLP is anywhere near as utopian as it appears to be, then there needs to be male alicorns in power somewhere in the world. Otherwise, the implication is thus: If alicorns hold the highest seats of power, and if all alicorns are indeed female, then a male can never hold a position of power. Or at least, never hold a position anywhere near as high as those of the princesses. And if there really does exist such a ceiling through which males can never break, then equality between the sexes is merely an illusion, no matter how hunky-dory things seem on the surface.

 

The mane point I'm trying to get across is, unless males and females can be on equal footing in terms of ruling a nation, then males and females aren't really on equal footing as a whole. And speaking as somepony who's all for equality, I say let there be male alicorns.

 

...And before anypony cites Sombra as an example, he don't count. Not an alicorn. Also, unabashedly EVIL.

Maybe in a hyper idealized world would there be definite male-female equality but I don’t think fiction should be constrained by it. If Alicorns are meant to be female only then that is how it should be. The world of Equestria is simply a place that is feminine dominated. It is not evil or wrong for it to be like that. And I don’t see a link between that and its status as a more perfect world. I don’t think equality in the royal sense is needed.

[Thrashy 2,799]

Maybe in a hyper idealized world would there be definite male-female equality but I don’t think fiction should be constrained by it. If Alicorns are meant to be female only then that is how it should be. The world of Equestria is simply a place that is feminine dominated. It is not evil or wrong for it to be like that. And I don’t see a link between that and its status as a more perfect world. I don’t think equality in the royal sense is needed.

 

I respect your viewpoint, but I couldn't agree less with it. It reeks of complacency; just because "everything seems fine" in a place like Equestria doesn't mean it truly is. If males have a 0% chance at ever being royalty, then there'd most definitely be some rather disgruntled stallions out there who feel they're being subjugated, little more than second-class citizens, forever limited by an unbreakable ceiling...all because of what? Their genitalia? I'm sorry, but complacency just has no place in this world or any other. It's almost like saying, "Oh, women were doing just fine before we gave them the right to vote, it's not like they were being outright oppressed by not being able to vote!" Sure, some could make the argument that women still had it good back then, despite not having suffrage. But that doesn't mean that they didn't feel resentful and downtrodden.

 

Although at the end of the day, shame on me for trying to bring real-world idealism into a little girls' cartoon, right?  

[Scrumpy 159]

Um don't shoot me for this but my personal theory is that unlike earth ponies, pegasi, and unicorns, alicorns are not a seperate race to be born but (and this is based on twilights transformation) are a stage up to become (kinda like pokemon evolutions, but in this case any "starter" can evolve into the one evolved form) yeah I hope that makes sense.

[TheSupremeLeaderOfChaos 1,189]

Though I of all people say the number of canon alicorns needs to stop growing, I'd like to see at least one male alicorn, just to clear up all the confusion. I do think there are male alicorns, we just haven's seen them yet. However, there are not only 4 canon alicorns. Look at this.

 

 

The heck kid? I would get annoyed at you for being an alicorn, but you're too darn cute! And yes, you'e female. Doesn't help the whole are all alicorns female question. Thanks a lot for existing.

 

... Dang, you're adorable! *huggles*

[acworc 1]

I'm not sure if this has already been said, but the crowning and transformation of twilight kind of denounces the possibility of alicorns only being female. This is because if alicorns are only born when another alicorn mates with an alicorn, then why not? Celestia made twilight a "princess" by making her an alicorn. If its that easy, then she must be able to make a male into an alicorn easy, its just that from what i know, Equestria is a nearly strict matriarchal rule.

[~Chaotic Fireball~ 498]

Well riddle me this... what race is Cadence's father?

 

SPOILERS, SO BE CAREFUL

 

Most likely a pegasus, since Cadence was originally born a pegasus until Celestia adopted her and transformed her into a princess...

 

[Scrumpy 159]

Um...yeah, LOTR's case is kind of sexist, actually. Whether a society is patriarchal, like LOTR, or matriarchal, it is of no difference; when one sex holds exclusive rights to power, the other is necessarily subjugated - ergo, sexism. Frankly, the concept of matriarchy is just as loathsome to me as patriarchy.

 

If the world of MLP is anywhere near as utopian as it appears to be, then there needs to be male alicorns in power somewhere in the world. Otherwise, the implication is thus: If alicorns hold the highest seats of power, and if all alicorns are indeed female, then a male can never hold a position of power. Or at least, never hold a position anywhere near as high as those of the princesses. And if there really does exist such a ceiling through which males can never break, then equality between the sexes is merely an illusion, no matter how hunky-dory things seem on the surface.

 

The main point I'm trying to get across is, unless males and females can be on equal footing in terms of ruling a nation, then males and females aren't really on equal footing as a whole. And speaking as someone who's all for equality, I say let there be male alicorns.

 

...And before anyone cites Sombra as an example, he don't count. Not an alicorn. Also, unabashedly EVIL.

Ok first of all LOTR is not sexist, it's just medieval based and stuck true to how our own society was like in medieval times, it is not deliberately excluding women from roles of power esp since we have Lady Galadriel to disprove that and it isn't suggesting women are weak either because heyo look who killed the witch king: Eowyn. It's just not 50/50 because it's not realistic for it to be 50/50 in that setting.

Likewise when FiM was first aired the original target audience was little girls, noone could have predicted that a brony fandom would have arose from it back then. It's female dominated because that is the gender the originaly intended demographic would relate to the most. Yeah we have bronies now, more fans the merrier BUT people became bronies because they liked the show. If you change that for a small handful of people who want fiction to be realistic idealistic all the time then it would result in a loss of fans.

 

50/50 GE is for the future we are working towards IRL and so better fits into a scifi, not historically/magic based setting."Frankly, the concept of matriarchy is just as loathsome to me as patriarchy."  Ditto, but I don't care if something fictional has a patriarchal setting, or a matriarchal one, as long as it stays in the world of fantasy and doesn't affect my legal rights to equality in the real world.

[Thrashy 2,799]

Ok first of all LOTR is not sexist, it's just medieval based and stuck true to how our own society was like in medieval times, it is not deliberately excluding women from roles of power esp since we have Lady Galadriel to disprove that and it isn't suggesting women are weak either because heyo look who killed the witch king: Eowyn. It's just not 50/50 because it's not realistic for it to be 50/50 in that setting.

Likewise when FiM was first aired the original target audience was little girls, noone could have predicted that a brony fandom would have arose from it back then. It's female dominated because that is the gender the originaly intended demographic would relate to the most. Yeah we have bronies now, more fans the merrier BUT people became bronies because they liked the show. If you change that for a small handful of people who want fiction to be realistic idealistic all the time then it would result in a loss of fans.

 

50/50 GE is for the future we are working towards IRL and so better fits into a scifi, not historically/magic based setting."Frankly, the concept of matriarchy is just as loathsome to me as patriarchy."  Ditto, but I don't care if something fictional has a patriarchal setting, or a matriarchal one, as long as it stays in the world of fantasy and doesn't affect my legal rights to equality in the real world.

 

Didn't say LOTR is sexist, I said the fictional patriarchal society portrayed within LOTR is. Just because Tolkien portrayed a sexist society in his books doesn't mean I'm accusing him or his work of being sexist. Because yes, he did base his stories on our own actual medieval society...which, as you may recall, was almost entirely patriarchal, save for a few prominent historical female figures. It may interest you to know that queens often acted as little more than placeholders whenever a king died, making royal decisions (strongly influenced by a royal advisor or steward) only until the blood heir was old enough to assume the crown. To say that our own medieval society (and by extension, those based on it) wasn't just a bit sexist would be a little naïve.

 

And while you're right about it still technically being a little girl's program, for a show targeting either gender to focus almost solely on characters of that gender is most unwise, IMO. First off, it implants the idea that "the only gender I can associate with is my own". Which is complete and total BS. If FiM were to have a much broader scope of well-written male characters, it wouldn't be a mere ploy to pander to bronies - it would be giving the target audience male characters that they can relate to. (Besides, bronies don't exactly need such pandering, considering we relate just fine to the all-female Mane 6.)

 

Recall from your own childhood a favorite cartoon targeted towards boys. What role did the females in that show serve, other than damsel in distress, or some other menial supporting role? How many of them could you actually relate to? 9 times out of 10, the only females in those shows were what were known as "token girls", only existing as a vain attempt to draw in a couple female viewers. As a result, such characters were relatable to neither girls nor boys. I can guarantee that, had there been more female characters that I could relate to when I was a kid, my relationship with the opposite sex wouldn't have suffered for as long as it did.

 

To address your final point, I don't normally care whether societies are portrayed as sexist in fiction, either. But again, this is a children's show at its core. Wouldn't it be better to hammer the point of equality into the malleable minds of impressionable youth? It's the whole "girls do this, boys do that" mentality that has plagued children's programming since the beginning of television, and it's just that mentality that is responsible for the fact that boys and girls still treat each other like alien creatures until they hit dating age. As progressive as the show has been in changing the definition of masculinity, shouldn't it also be progressive in not highlighting the differences between the two sexes, and treat them as one in the same? Again, sexism is fine in fiction where I'm looking for a bit of drama. But a good children's show and its lessons will stick with a child for years to come. Why shouldn't those lessons involve equality? They already kind of did it with Zecora, so I see no reason those lessons shouldn't include mares and stallions being on equal footing.

 

I guess the cliff note here is, I'm not accusing FiM or its writers of being sexist, if that's what it initially sounded like I was saying. I am saying that if no male alicorns exist - and that's a huge if, because there is currently no proof that the alicorn race is all-female - then the society within FiM is, technically, sexist.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Lowline Thrash

[Scrumpy 159]

Didn't say LOTR is sexist, I said the fictional patriarchal society portrayed within LOTR is. Just because Tolkien portrayed a sexist society in his books doesn't mean I'm accusing him or his work of being sexist. Because yes, he did base his stories on our own actual medieval society...which, as you may recall, was almost entirely patriarchal, save for a few prominent historical female figures. It may interest you to know that queens often acted as little more than placeholders whenever a king died, making royal decisions (strongly influenced by a royal advisor or steward) only until the blood heir was old enough to assume the crown. To say that our own medieval society (and by extension, those based on it) wasn't just a bit sexist would be a little naïve.

 

And while you're right about it still technically being a little girl's program, for a show targeting either gender to focus almost solely on characters of that gender is most unwise, IMO. First off, it implants the idea that "the only gender I can associate with is my own". Which is complete and total BS. If FiM were to have a much broader scope of well-written male characters, it wouldn't be a mere ploy to pander to bronies - it would be giving the target audience male characters that they can relate to. (Besides, bronies don't exactly need such pandering, considering we relate just fine to the all-female Mane 6.)

 

Recall from your own childhood a favorite cartoon targeted towards boys. What role did the females in that show serve, other than damsel in distress, or some other menial supporting role? How many of them could you actually relate to? 9 times out of 10, the only females in those shows were what were known as "token girls", only existing as a vain attempt to draw in a couple female viewers. As a result, such characters were relatable to neither girls nor boys. I can guarantee that, had there been more female characters that I could relate to when I was a kid, my relationship with the opposite sex wouldn't have suffered for as long as it did.

 

To address your final point, I don't normally care whether societies are portrayed as sexist in fiction, either. But again, this is a children's show at its core. Wouldn't it be better to hammer the point of equality into the malleable minds of impressionable youth? It's the whole "girls do this, boys do that" mentality that has plagued children's programming since the beginning of television, and it's just that mentality that is responsible for the fact that boys and girls still treat each other like alien creatures until they hit dating age. As progressive as the show has been in changing the definition of masculinity, shouldn't it also be progressive in not highlighting the differences between the two sexes, and treat them as one in the same? Again, sexism is fine in fiction where I'm looking for a bit of drama. But a good children's show and its lessons will stick with a child for years to come. Why shouldn't those lessons involve equality? They already kind of did it with Zecora, so I see no reason those lessons shouldn't include mares and stallions being on equal footing.

 

I guess the cliff note here is, I'm not accusing FiM or its writers of being sexist, if that's what it initially sounded like I was saying. I am saying that if no male alicorns exist - and that's a huge if, because there is currently no proof that the alicorn race is all-female - then the society within FiM is, technically, sexist.

Ok point 1a. Maybe I misread you but you definitely left it open to interpreting that you were implying in your opinion LOTR is sexist.

1b. Not every ye-olden society was patriarchal, not always in the females = placeholder sense atleast, inherited positions n/a seeeing as many men also acheive power simply by being heirs. Examples include Boudicca, Elizabeth the 1st, Hatshepsut, and Joan of Arc, to name just a few.

 

Point 2 yes we want to encourage gender mixing however I think the biggest problem I have with trying to figure out what you mean by this is because although the show has a female dominant cast, the specific problems they face and overcome can apply to any gender anyway, but hey maybe this is only obvious to me.

 

Point 3 can you re-word that question because it looks like you are assuming I'm a guy, in which case most of it is not applicable to me. Seeing as I'm a woman and my fave show was strangely the Powerpuff girls, (no prizes for guessing why) but if you want me to literally answer that ("a favorite cartoon targeted towards boys") I'd have to say Power Rangers and Digimon so again N/A because the female characters were cast in important roles in digimon, maybe support roles in power rangers but no less active, and just as able to deal out a butt whoopin'. Defo not "damsels in distress".

 

Point 4 "Wouldn't it be better to hammer the point of equality into the malleable minds of impressionable youth?" Yes I agree it would be easier, however relying on youth being impressionable just sounds sleezy like a mcdonalds comercial writter IMO lol, joking aside tho it must be done carefully so as to make sure any kids who genuinely want to be traditionally masculine or feminine don't feel shamed for their own desires, (some little girls just want to be princesses thats cool, not every girl has to be a "GI Jane", just like not every girl has to want to play with dolls) so it can be a double edge sword and defo shouldn't be brow beaten so to speak.

"the fact that boys and girls still treat each other like alien creatures until they hit dating age" Well I'm sorry I don't fit that stereotype/"fact" so I can't honestly say whether that is true or not, no offence, because in my experience this also is not what happened to me. So I think that is a matter or truths being subjective.

 

Ok my cliff note has to be, yeah I agree with you in parts and I think it's a good idea, but poorly executed or done for the wrong reasons could have a terrible backlash. And yes personally I would like to see atleast one male alicorn with an important role too, but personally if I don't get full equality in MLP I'll be happy to settle for implied equality (just enough so the kids don't get negative ideas in their heads) it doesn't have to be literally 50/50 exactly.

 

Edit:

P.s. If you read this in any snarky or mean tone please understand I don't intend it to sound like that, (its just late at night for me and I'm tired) I respect your right to your individual opinion, tho we might have to just agree to disagree on some points. Thanks for the interesting discussion and I very much appreciate you taking the time to write out such a detailed reply. Continue in the morning maybe...

Edited July 7, 2013 by Scrumpy

[Thrashy 2,799]

Point 2 yes we want to encourage gender mixing however I think the biggest problem I have with trying to figure out what you mean by this is because although the show has a female dominant cast, the specific problems they face and overcome can apply to any gender anyway, but hey maybe this is only obvious to me.

 

That is actually one of my points, only I feel it needs to apply in reverse. Yes, the female cast faces unisex problems that even males can relate to - that's exactly why so many males have taken a liking to the show. But why needn't this occur in reverse? As I said before, introducing male characters who also face such unisex problems, for the females to relate to, would bring nothing but good IMO.

 

Point 3 can you re-word that question because it looks like you are assuming I'm a guy, in which case most of it is not applicable to me. Seeing as I'm a woman and my fave show was strangely the Powerpuff girls, (no prizes for guessing why) but if you want me to literally answer that ("a favorite cartoon targeted towards boys") I'd have to say Power Rangers and Digimon so again N/A because the female characters were cast in important roles in digimon, maybe support roles in power rangers but no less active, and just as able to deal out a butt whoopin'. Defo not "damsels in distress".

 

Admittedly, yes, I made the assumption that you were a guy. My mistake. However, yes, it applies to you whether we're talking about boys' programming or girls' programming. You just so happened to find PPG and Power Ragers appealing - despite their polar opposite target audiences - because you found something relatable about the characters in those shows, whether those characters you related to were male or female. But look me in the eye and tell me that you'd honestly find those damsels in distress that plagued boy's shows relatable. You don't. Trust me, you don't, and nor do I. They were all token girls, not meant to be taken seriously. And honestly, I'm kind of feeling like a lot of the stallions on FiM are just token guys - not really meant to be relatable, just kind of there. Not all of them are that way, but no one can deny that they could all stand to undergo a bit more development.

 

That's why I'm saying, male characters in the show need to be fleshed out more, not just for the sake of male viewers, but female as well. It benefits everypony.

 

Point 4 "Wouldn't it be better to hammer the point of equality into the malleable minds of impressionable youth?" Yes I agree it would be easier, however relying on youth being impressionable just sounds sleezy like a mcdonalds comercial writter IMO lol, joking aside tho it must be done carefully so as to make sure any kids who genuinely want to be traditionally masculine or feminine don't feel shamed for their own desires, (some little girls just want to be princesses thats cool, not every girl has to be a "GI Jane", just like not every girl has to want to play with dolls) so it can be a double edge sword and defo shouldn't be brow beaten so to speak.

 

Just to be clear, I never tried to indicate that we should take away girls' inherent sense of femininity, in case that's what you got out of what I said. In fact, Rarity has recently become one of my favorite ponies, and she's about as feminine as the Mane 6 get. The underlying point is, as impressionable as children are, they need to be taught that while they may choose to follow the interests of a "typical" boy or girl, there should be no shame in deviating from the very clear-cut path that society expects of them. This is, after all, why male bronies have been such a breakthrough in defying societal norms and redefining masculinity. Going back to Rarity, yeah, she may be feminine insofar as her appearance, general ladylike demeanor and choice of profession are concerned. But she has shown herself to be the antithesis of the typical token girl trope on more than one occasion; quite frankly, she kicks ass, and in that sense, it could be said that she is redefining femininity.

 

Children should be shown that no matter who you are, anypony can be "the hero" of the tale. Which is why it'd strike me as just a little hypocritical if the writers were to up and say "...except males, they can't be alicorns or leaders. U mad, bro?" I can't speak for all male bronies, but considering how huge a portion of the show's fanbase is male, I'd personally find that to be a bit of a slap in the face, regardless of how well I've been relating to female cast members.

 

"the fact that boys and girls still treat each other like alien creatures until they hit dating age" Well I'm sorry I don't fit that stereotype/"fact" so I can't honestly say whether that is true or not, no offence, because in my experience this also is not what happened to me. So I think that is a matter or truths being subjective.

 

Subjective, yes. Terribly commonplace? Undeniably so. Every "stereotype" has a basis in truth, this one more so than others, I'm afraid. I'm glad you don't fit the bill for someone who thinks of men as being from Mars, but I think you'll find an overwhelming number of male bronies on these forums (and plenty more non-brony males out there in the world) are both single and admittedly terrible with talking to the opposite sex. There was actually a thread about it somewhere hereabouts, but I'm not currently inclined to hunt it down.

 

My point is, what if the shows many of these guys had grown up with had fleshed-out female characters whom they could relate to, rather than the hollow, vapid D.I.D.s I mentioned before? Well, my hypothesis would be, they'd have realized from an early age that "we're not so different, boys and girls", which could therefore have manifested itself into an ability to communicate with both males and females on an equal level, socially speaking. Meaning, a lot of these guys wouldn't be nearly so uncomfortable interacting with women.

 

Of course I realize how much of a stretch that might be, and I have no earthly way of testing that hypothesis since I'm not a producer of a wildly popular TV series. So I could just be blowing out hot air. Still, I firmly believe it would be a step in the right direction for FiM to do what I'm advocating. It may have started off a little girls' TV show - much like PPG - but if the prevalence of bronies and male PPG fans is of any indication, it should be painfully obvious that FiM isn't (or at least, shouldn't be) considered exclusively for little girls anymore. It should be a family show, which is what some of the writers have explicitly stated that that's who they've been writing for - the family.

 

While I don't think they necessarily need to rewrite the show for males, I don't think giving males a little more representation would in any way detract from any of the elements that made the show great in the first place.

 

Edit:

P.s. If you read this in any snarky or mean tone please understand I don't intend it to sound like that, (its just late at night for me and I'm tired) I respect your right to your individual opinion, tho we might have to just agree to disagree on some points. Thanks for the interesting discussion and I very much appreciate you taking the time to write out such a detailed reply. Continue in the morning maybe...

 

Came off a wee bit snippy I guess, but then again, I think I come off as harsh a lot of the time even though I never mean to, so no harm done.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Lowline Thrash

[Scrumpy 159]

That is actually one of my points, only I feel it needs to apply in reverse. Yes, the female cast faces unisex problems that even males can relate to - that's exactly why so many males have taken a liking to the show. But why needn't this occur in reverse? As I said before, introducing male characters who also face such unisex problems, for the females to relate to, would bring nothing but good IMO.

 

 

Admittedly, yes, I made the assumption that you were a guy. My mistake. However, yes, it applies to you whether we're talking about boys' programming or girls' programming. You just so happened to find PPG and Power Ragers appealing - despite their polar opposite target audiences - because you found something relatable about the characters in those shows, whether those characters you related to were male or female. But look me in the eye and tell me that you'd honestly find those damsels in distress that plagued boy's shows relatable. You don't. Trust me, you don't, and nor do I. They were all token girls, not meant to be taken seriously. And honestly, I'm kind of feeling like a lot of the stallions on FiM are just token guys - not really meant to be relatable, just kind of there. Not all of them are that way, but no one can deny that they could all stand to undergo a bit more development.

 

That's why I'm saying, male characters in the show need to be fleshed out more, not just for the sake of male viewers, but female as well. It benefits everypony.

 

 

Just to be clear, I never tried to indicate that we should take away girls' inherent sense of femininity, in case that's what you got out of what I said. In fact, Rarity has recently become one of my favorite ponies, and she's about as feminine as the Mane 6 get. The underlying point is, as impressionable as children are, they need to be taught that while they may choose to follow the interests of a "typical" boy or girl, there should be no shame in deviating from the very clear-cut path that society expects of them. This is, after all, why male bronies have been such a breakthrough in defying societal norms and redefining masculinity. Going back to Rarity, yeah, she may be feminine insofar as her appearance, general ladylike demeanor and choice of profession are concerned. But she has shown herself to be the antithesis of the typical token girl trope on more than one occasion; quite frankly, she kicks ass, and in that sense, it could be said that she is redefining femininity.

 

Children should be shown that no matter who you are, anypony can be "the hero" of the tale. Which is why it'd strike me as just a little hypocritical if the writers were to up and say "...except males, they can't be alicorns or leaders. U mad, bro?" I can't speak for all male bronies, but considering how huge a portion of the show's fanbase is male, I'd personally find that to be a bit of a slap in the face, regardless of how well I've been relating to female cast members.

 

 

Subjective, yes. Terribly commonplace? Undeniably so. Every "stereotype" has a basis in truth, this one more so than others, I'm afraid. I'm glad you don't fit the bill for someone who thinks of men as being from Mars, but I think you'll find an overwhelming number of male bronies on these forums (and plenty more non-brony males out there in the world) are both single and admittedly terrible with talking to the opposite sex. There was actually a thread about it somewhere hereabouts, but I'm not currently inclined to hunt it down.

 

My point is, what if the shows many of these guys had grown up with had fleshed-out female characters whom they could relate to, rather than the hollow, vapid D.I.D.s I mentioned before? Well, my hypothesis would be, they'd have realized from an early age that "we're not so different, boys and girls", which could therefore have manifested itself into an ability to communicate with both males and females on an equal level, socially speaking. Meaning, a lot of these guys wouldn't be nearly so uncomfortable interacting with women.

 

Of course I realize how much of a stretch that might be, and I have no earthly way of testing that hypothesis since I'm not a producer of a wildly popular TV series. So I could just be blowing out hot air. Still, I firmly believe it would be a step in the right direction for FiM to do what I'm advocating. It may have started off a little girls' TV show - much like PPG - but if the prevalence of bronies and male PPG fans is of any indication, it should be painfully obvious that FiM isn't (or at least, shouldn't be) considered exclusively for little girls anymore. It should be a family show, which is what some of the writers have explicitly stated that that's who they've been writing for - the family.

 

While I don't think they necessarily need to rewrite the show for males, I don't think giving males a little more representation would in any way detract from any of the elements that made the show great in the first place.

 

 

Came off a wee bit snippy I guess, but then again, I think I come off as harsh a lot of the time even though I never mean to, so no harm done.

Wow another long reply, I read all of it but the conclusion I've come to only requires a short reply on my part (honest, I don't mean to seam lazy lol) and that is that you make some interesting points and I can tell your heart is in a good place, maybe I'm just cautious to edit something that is already (excluding minor flaws) pretty darn great, so perhaps the solution would be a beta test of your proposed idea in a small number of episodes to check audience response before making it manestream into the show.

 

"Came off a wee bit snippy I guess, but then again, I think I come off as harsh a lot of the time even though I never mean to, so no harm done"

Isn't that always the way online? It's so easy for context to get muddled up when you can't hear a tone of voice. Thanks for being cool about it. 

[Galen 1,353]

The show's gender ratio is fucked to begin with, so I'm inclined to stay on the fence. I understand the logic and it's sound, but at the same time three alicorns, all related one way or another, two coming from the same parents, isn't the most diverse statistics to make a judgement around, for me anyway.

 

I don't think there's a gender imbalance in the show tbh. It's a matter of female characters, both main, side and to a lesser extent background characters, getting more exposure due to the face the main characters, in particular the mane 6, are females. It's logical that they would be more involved with the female spectrum of Equestrian society and as a result, we see a lot more of that than the male side. If the mane 6 were actually stallions, the case would be different.

 

One should also consider the type of roles stallions fulfill. We often see them doing hands-on work a lot more, causing them to be out on the field than in the towns, especially in Ponyville which is an Earth Pony town. You'll prolly notice there's a lot more balance between mares and stallions in places like Canterlot (watch Sweet and Elite and you'll see what I mean). One bit of evidence to support this is the fact that virtually every member of the royal guard is a stallion. Aside from fanfiction, I've never seen a mare among the royal guards once. This implies how stallions take care of the more physical things, so it makes sense that we wouldn't see them in the setting we see in the show typically.

 

With that said, I find it very likely male alicorns can exist, just that we haven't seen them yet. This may have to do with various things. I, for one, don't think Alicorns are born, but rather exist as higher beings. Given that both Cadence and Twilight were known to be a Pegasus and a Unicorn respectively at first, it was only after they discovered new magic that they became enlightened, in a sense, and became Alicorns. In other words, Alicorns are enlightened beings. I don't see why stallions can't become enlightened. I imagine they'd reproduce like any other pony (I doubt that's the case for Celestia and Luna tho) but their offspring would be one of the three traditional pony types rather than an Alicorn.

[Thrashy 2,799]

Wow another long reply, I read all of it but the conclusion I've come to only requires a short reply on my part (honest, I don't mean to seam lazy lol) and that is that you make some interesting points and I can tell your heart is in a good place, maybe I'm just cautious to edit something that is already (excluding minor flaws) pretty darn great, so perhaps the solution would be a beta test of your proposed idea in a small number of episodes to check audience response before making it manestream into the show.

 

"Came off a wee bit snippy I guess, but then again, I think I come off as harsh a lot of the time even though I never mean to, so no harm done"

Isn't that always the way online? It's so easy for context to get muddled up when you can't hear a tone of voice. Thanks for being cool about it. 

 

Yeah...just to clarify, I really don't mean to come off as holier-than-thou or like I'm high up on my soapbox when I bring up the whole sexism thing. Honestly, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as my walls of text might indicate. I just have a tendency to over-analyze things into the freakin' ground; once I get started scrutinizing something, it's hard to stop. It's one of my many shortcomings, and at the end of the day I eventually wake up and tell myself, "Dude, it's just a kid's TV show. Stop over-thinking it." So to that end, I must say, thanks for putting up with my...um, argumentativeness in a calm and rational manner.  

 

Of course, I'll always maintain that more male character depth in FiM would be beneficial to the show and its viewers, but even if it never happened, it's not like I'd write the show off or anything like that. As long as the show has characters I can relate to, male or female, I'll continue to watch and enjoy. Till I see a male alicorn in the show, I've at least got my headcanon.