Do You Support Twilicorn?

[Breakfast 21]

Strange thing about the just trying to sell toys theory, there's a series of MLP toys that have been around since before season 3 called glimmer wings.  It had winged versions of all the mane six plus other characters.  So they don't need a reason in-show to make a toy.

 

As for if this was needed?  No, at least not  now.  I say like any student, Celestia's prodigy was learning job skills and if you're Celestia prodigy your job openings are few and prestigious, but that could have been held off for a few more seasons.  But did this need to happen?  I guess not.  But did it need to not happen?  No.

[Shift 4,272]

People don't like change. They think that everything should stay the same, or she's becoming Mary Sue-ish.

 

In my world, I think it's a wonderful change. Twilight is growing, evolving into a better person. She can't spend her life in a library with so much potential, like how the CMC can't be Blank Flanks forever.

[stainesbrony 219]

 

That us the short way of saying it. I could also go into a 10-hour long discourse about it, going into a 30-minute long rant about Magikarp, but I'm just going to leave you with the short answer.

[Nature's Spell 526]

Honestly, I'm excited about the new season and optimistic about Twilight because I trust the writers and I'm willing to keep an open mind. I get the concern, I do, and perhaps I'm less invested in the series at this point, but I feel strongly that everything will be OK. It will be different but OK.

[Jokuc 8,173]

Now after seing the episode, yes. Yes I do support it. I think it's a bit cool that Twilight has become an Alicorn. Though I don't think it will last *shrug*

[hawkflame 3,310]

I have to agree that it's difficult to feel after season 3 like the show is necessarily on the right track. I think Twilicorn was only systematic of a problem that plagued season 3 with rushed endings, lukewarm writing, less episodes, and an overall decrease in quality. It just doesn't seem AS good a show as it was the previous seasons and I think it's important that it's ok to be wary as a fan when we see a beloved show begin to waver (without completely turning on it of course).

 

Season 3 was the most inconsistent in quality so far.  There were a number of good episodes, but the percentage of poor to mediocre episodes was much higher than the first two.  In fact, I'd say that the total number of mediocre episodes in season 3 is about equal to that of seasons 1 or 2, in spite of being half as long.  Which is why it's harder to be so super confident in how Alicorn Twilight will turn out. 

 

"Trust the writers," everyone said.  Well, I've heard that earlier in the season, and "Keep Calm and Flutter On" ended up being one of my least favorite episodes.

[Scythe 39]

People don't like change. They think that everything should stay the same, or she's becoming Mary Sue-ish.

 

In my world, I think it's a wonderful change. Twilight is growing, evolving into a better person. She can't spend her life in a library with so much potential, like how the CMC can't be Blank Flanks forever.

People love change when it's in a direction they like. People are naturally afraid of loss, however. If the writers want to sell an idea, they need to convince the audience that the main cast are not losing relationships, power balances, connections, focus on non-Twilight characters, etc. This should not have been left to the next season, as a finale is supposed to hook the viewers rather than scare them away.

 

Oh its hard and there may be a lingering feeling for a while. Its not quite about forcing yourself to have an opinion but trying to take a different approach to looking at what is bothering you. Here is an example.The fact that the episode was structured as a musical has seemed to throw people off. It seems there is a tendency to enjoy the songs as songs but not quite recognize them as plot points that contain vital audio and visual info essential to the story. When you start looking at songs for that relevant info youll notice new things just in that episode but in all of them.  Thinking about the technical reasons for musicals would also give a much different perspective.

 

Ill give you an example of something I really felt off about when watching the show early on, cutie marks. The very idea of them struck me as wrong and the name was just way too cute. I didnt like how the ponies seemed to be bound by this mark that they seemed tie to do a certain one thing. The suggestion of destiny itself seemed off. However when I rewatched the episode I caught the theme of growth and self discovery. After that I began re-examining of of the main 6 cutie marks. Then I noticed something Twilights cutie mark had five stars this represented her friends, it was confirmed somewhere and then it all clicked. The connection to the elements how they shared the shape of the cutie mark which I overlooked. I recognized it as an very smart incorporation yes it involved destiny  but I found that many other things I liked did as well. The original Star Wars movies are filled with references to destiny and I loved that. Soon all the reasons I had for disliking curie marks fell away and I realized I had missed their dept and point to begin with. This wont always happen but it never really hurts.

I, too, was bothered by the cutie marks. I see the little stars in Twilight's cutie mark for magical talent as standing for the other Elements, friendship being magic and all. I wonder if the little stars should have changed to her friends' cutie marks?

 

So Twilight learning all these lessons about friendship and perfecting a spell that Star Swirl couldn't thus creating new magic did not count as work? Granted Rainbow Dash becoming a Wonderbolt was more gradual than Twilight becoming an Alicorn but she still worked to become one.

About people saying Twilight didn't deserve it because she didn't work very hard for it, I understand their point. If Twilight perfected one spell and that was creating new magic, anyone who creates or finishes a spell is creating new magic. Starswirl created over 200 spells, we're told, but he didn't understand friendship. If someone created a new spell/magic and understands friendship, does that mean Rarity or another unicorn should also be an alicorn?

 

Celestia said that Twilight had done something never done before. Unless Celestia also doesn't understand why Twilight became an alicorn, I'd like to know what Twilight did. If it was a new magic, what kind? A new element of Harmony? What? If it was that she had friends, finished a spell, and was the bearer of an element of harmony, that's weak.

 

I'm not expecting the 12 Labours of Hercules, just something I can swallow.

[MK15 68]

I'm the only one for which... the S3 finale has an affective value? I mean, I'm a Twilight fan, and for me to see her become a princess was an great realizzation.... but I'm starting to think I'm the only one with this feel.... there is anyone that loved the S3 finale like I did? Please don't insult me....

Edited April 11, 2013 by MK15

[An Old Head 4,816]

Oh, believe me you're not alone. I loved the finale; I'm still indifferent on Twilight being an alicorn, I'm just going to wait and see what Season 4 does with the idea. Like you, I'm expecting it to be good n.n

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

... the S3 finale has an affective value? I mean, I'm a Twilight fan, and for me to see her become a princess was an great realizzation.... but I'm starting to think I'm the only one with this feel.... there is anyone that loved the S3 finale like I did? Please don't insult me....

Hello. Your topic appeared to be related to asking for opinions regarding Twilight's transformation, and as we already has an older and pinned thread for the purpose of sharing these opinions, I have merged your topic with the older one.

 

And no, you are most certainly not alone. In fact you seem to be in the majority.

[pokethepony 6]

i do support alicorn twighly. she and her friends will have many more adventures in the future. with her new found powers she will be more powerful and a more dense of a character and maybe more back stories?

Edited April 11, 2013 by pokethepony

[JayPeg 17]

Though I'm rather indifferent to the whole idea of Twilght being an alicorn, I'll admit it is a bit too soon, perhaps they could of made her a princess at a later time? I dunno, its just my thoughts really. Otherwise, I'm pretty much indifferent to the whole idea of her being an alicorn. (or as my friend randomly reffered to her as, a UNIPEG! i'm sorry...)

[Thrashy 2,800]

I don't have any major problems with it like some seem to. To me, it makes perfect sense given it's established from the very beginning that Twilight is Celestia's protege, and that she's somewhat of a prodigy with magic. I don't see it as a change that will negatively impact the way the show operates...actually, I see it as a great opportunity for new and unique episode ideas. At the very least, we all know that the writers, clever as they are, aren't going to allow such a plot element run the show into the ground. I'm quite optimistic for the next season, myself.

[DarligPegasi 315]

I love Twilicorn! I wish they had made her a bit taller though, cause she looks kind of stocky. But yeah, love the alicorn thing. Hope she doesn't have to wear that crown and that hideous dress all the time though. *shudder*

[Tex 88]

Although Twilicorn immediately put me off at a first glance (simply because of the contrast of what your would imagine from a princess, and what Twilight's character starts off as), I quickly grew to accept it as a pretty great thing. It's what she was training for for the past three seasons, was it not? To become the successor to P.Celest? 

 

Sure, it was abrupt as all hell, but I still find that the end result felt right. The only thing that bothers me, is the fact that the entire damn episode was one big mess in terms of pacing. The musical idea I rather enjoyed, but to pack so much into only a 20 minute time frame? Addressing a catastrophe involving the mane 6, Twlight's endeavor to fix said catastrophe, all while finally wrapping up what the entire show has been leading to with her completion of SSTB's spell and transformation into an Alicorn? Eh...

 

On top of that, the show put it self on very thin ice for the 4th season. Where will it go from here? There's probably more that could be learned from friendship, but Twilight's transformation implies that she's already learned enough to ascend to the highest power known to pony-kind (at least it seems that way). I don't know where the show will head after the risky decision of adding a fourth season (let's see those dollar signs, Hasbro), but I have faith that it still remain to be one of the most entertaining toons out there.

 

With that said, the idea has my full support, with confidence that is.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Tex

[Golurk 468]

Warning: the following post is likely to be tl;dr material. Please do not begin unless you've got time on your hands. Also a warning: this post IS somewhat (and by that I mean severely) anti-AliTwi. Read at your own risk.

 

I've been needing to say this for a while, but with the release of Twilight's Hot Minute, I feel as if now would be the best time to say it:

 

I'm not a fan of what's happened to Twily.

 

Now, now, I know you're all tired of people complaining, but bear with me here. I know how to spin a yarn, and I'll be holding back no details. And note that I've moved on from what I'm about to describe, aside from short relapses whenever new news comes in. I'm not like this anymore, about 98% of the time.

 

Basically, there's both a variety of reasons I don't like it, and no reason at all. I'll start with the major reasons.

 

I feel as if I've lost some part of the "connection" I had to Twily. I'm not lying when I say that she's scarily similar to me in terms of personality. In fact, hearing there was a character on the show who was basically exactly like me was a major reason I decided to get into it. Lo and behold, Twily was my favorite by the end of the first two episodes. Why? Because I sympathized with this character, this purple little cartoon pony. She was, putting this as un-cheesily as possible, a little cartoon pony version of me. Knowing this, I felt somewhat broken when she became the AliTwi, as I felt I'd somehow lost that tight connection I had to this character (for clarity, not like person-person connection, a lot less close). I dunno, I just felt I couldn't relate as well to this character that was, for all intents and purposes, myself incarnate. She became something else that I wasn't expecting. What exactly, I wasn't sure of, and still don't know. It'll probably end up being nothing, and what I'll be describing later would have been for nothing in such a case.

 

Next, I just didn't see why this was necessary. This is, regardless of what the cast and crew are telling us, going to change things. To change things, you have to alter the formula. And if you want to alter the tried-and-true formula, you better have a good reason for it. Thing is, I fail to see the good reason in this. The show was popular, the character was well liked, there really wasn't much room for improvement. As such, I simply do not see what made this move necessary. I'll elaborate more on what this meant later.

 

Next, I like knowing things, and being able to predict them. With the lack of reasoning from above, I found myself unable to draw desirable conclusions, and had little to go off of to predict what would happen. For me, this only resulted in infuriation and a bit of sadness. I really like to have answers; all this scenario gave me were impossible questions.

 

And finally, Twily was, as I said, a major reason I got into the show. They changed her up, which led me to wonder if I should "change up" how I see the show. I ultimately decided against it, but I don't think it takes a rocket surgeon to see what I was thinking of.

 

Now, I think I need to elaborate a bit more on the reaction I had: It wasn't good. I'm talking full-blown obsession over finding evidence to go against AliTwi, then evidence against it being permanent, then just obsession over the concept in general and how much I disliked it. It got to the point where, for a full week or two, and residually for a a couple months afterward  I was more depressed than I've been in years. I tried my best to hide it (and did pretty well), but a man can only hide behind a mask for so long. It wasn't long before people started noticing, and then it got truly terrible.

 

When I looked at it from an outside viewpoint, there I was, a 200+ lb, 6 ft, tank of a man, brought to depression because some cartoon pony sprouted some wings. Where was the logic in that? I saw myself as pathetic, and became increasingly more upset for the simple reason that I was upset over that most trivial of matters. The feedback loop only amplified itself, making it just more and more pathetic. It was because of this stupid, nonsensical reason that I became depressed over some minuscule thing that had no impact on anything.

 

It also didn't help that nearly everyone I tried to talk to about it was actually mad at me for being depressed. None of them even tried to see how I felt, instead hammering in that they "failed to see the problem", and suggested I do the same. But, as has been said countless times, one cannot unsee what one has seen, thus making their logic pointless. In the end, there was only one person I could talk to about it, to vent on if you will. That wasn't really enough, but it was what I was forced to deal with. (BTW, if that one person is reading this, big ol' size 24 /) to ya, you have no idea how much being a verbal punching bag meant to me.  )

 

Now, I know you're gonna tell me that I should've just calmed down and been rational. Before you do, let me tell you that I was trying. As hard as I could. But, I found myself unable to shake it. I was depressed, and nothing I tried could fix it (not even excessive amounts of Pinkie). I wanted to be rational, but I found myself incapable of doing so.

 

Now granted, time has passed, and I'm mostly over it. I mean, I still skip a few heartbeats when news comes out, but I'm no longer depressed. Still not a fan, but I'm a happy non-fan.

 

Although, it should be noted, I've lost my trust in the writers because of this. You can tell me to believe in them all you want, but the only way I can do so is if they earn it back. They've messed up in my eyes, and I need to see them fix their mistake before I can trust them again.

 

I guess, if there's a lesson to be learned from poor Uncle Yosef's plight, it's this: everything you do, no matter how insignificant you may think it is, has an effect on something. Remember that, and make your decisions knowing that even the tiniest of things can end up causing someone great distress.

 

And, if you've actually read all of this, I'd like to thank you for listening to my rant. You guys have no idea how good it feels to me to have this admitted to the world. I truly feel like Atlas has taken the Earth back from me. And it feels amazing. 

 

/end rant.

[Yes-Man 597]

Yeah, a lot of people had that same reaction. They obsessed over it for about a month, and then sort of got over it. Me too, actually.

Anywho, I feel for ya, buddy. I have an emotional connection with Spike, and if a drastic change like that were to happen, I'd probably lose it. Pretty good rant, I give it a 10/10.

[Pony Of The Month 534]

 

 

I feel as if I've lost some part of the "connection" I had to Twily. I'm not lying when I say that she's scarily similar to me in terms of personality. In fact, hearing there was a character on the show who was basically exactly like me was a major reason I decided to get into it. Lo and behold, Twily was my favorite by the end of the first two episodes. Why? Because I sympathized with this character, this purple little cartoon pony. She was, putting this as un-cheesily as possible, a little cartoon pony version of me. Knowing this, I felt somewhat broken when she became the AliTwi, as I felt I'd somehow lost that tight connection I had to this character (for clarity, not like person-person connection, a lot less close). I dunno, I just felt I couldn't relate as well to this character that was, for all intents and purposes, myself incarnate. She became something else that I wasn't expecting. What exactly, I wasn't sure of, and still don't know. It'll probably end up being nothing, and what I'll be describing later would have been for nothing in such a case.

 

Well some people may argue that Twilight's character changed even before she became an alicorn. She developed, without getting wings, and some people are mad about that. Maybe they connect to her just like you do. And also, if you somehow grew wings one day, would you still be against alicorn twilight? I don't think Twilight's wings changed her character, it was just the character development.

 

I do see where you're coming from though. I hate how people insist that Fluttershy should lose her shyness because I relate to her because of it. People criticize her character for regressing, but the truth is, that's the most realistic way to portray that kind of personality. People like me and ponies like Fluttershy usually regress back to our socially anxious selves. I would be very disappointed if the writers just threw Fluttershy's shyness out the window. 

[Shanks 10,816]

Like you I don't like this one bit and kind of went "nnnnnnnnoope they are not stupid enough to do this" at first but when it got confirmed I was pissed not because I was against her becoming one eventually but because I felt it was way way too soon and risked her becoming too powerful too quickly which puts her dangerously close to Mary Sue territory. I wouldn't go so far as to say I was "depressed" but it was a bit upsetting to me as Twilight was my 2nd favorite pony at the time and ironically the whole situation as bad as it was did remind me why I like her which bumped her up to being tied with Applejack and Luna for my favorite pony so I can at least chalk that up as one good thing that came out of it. Like you I see much of myself in Twilight though I wouldn't go as far as to say she is a pony version of me because I am more of a mix between her and Applejack.

 

I calmed down quite a bit before the finale, but after the finale I got pissed again but then calmed down to the point where though I sometimes get angry I for the most part am cautiously optimistic. While I may not trust Hasbro I do trust the writers as I know that this was not their idea and that many of them didn't really like it either. I am confident that so long as Hasbro steps back and lets the writers do their jobs that everything will be fine. I have made a bit of a promise to myself that if I am convinced that alicorn Twilight will work that I will have an alicorn Twilight avatar and sig for a month and it is a promise that I hope I will get to make good on. I have made no secret that I didn't like this or the finale but what choice do I have but to try to be optimistic?

Edited April 13, 2013 by EarthbendingProdigy

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,473]

I fully understand where you are coming from, but I still have not seen anything that indicates that this Alicorn thing will affect her personality at all. The new Hot Minute that was released actually hints at her being the same as she always was, which why couldn't she be? Just because she has 'fulfilled her destiny' it does not mean her personality has to change. That, and Tara Strong has already stated multiple times that Twilight's personality will not change.

 

See, I have actually been obsessing just as much as you, as weird as it sounds, but it is about the exact opposite. I love the Twilicorn concept and I actually do not want them to change her back or anything. I have many reasons for this, but one of them is that it would be a slap in the face to everything she has done so far and I would love to see character advancement like this. I want Twilicorn to stay.

 

So while I do not share the same viewpoint as you, I can relate in being this obsessed over it. Honestly, I still am, only because season 4 is a long ways off.

[Ficta_Scriptor 165]

Snip

 

Just read through your post, and wow, I can relate to a lot of this. Being a 200+ lbs 6"1 heavy-built man myself, I too thought myself as being pathetic for my depression over the Twilicorn matter. You want to know what I did when the news was made official? I opened up a bottle of scotch whiskey and I drank. There are so many logical reasons why I shouldn't have ever cared about it in the first place, but I still can't help but wince whenever I see alicorn Twi. The recent hot minute video made me realise just how much of an effect it still has on me, even over a month after the season finale.

 

I do think that most of the fandom have treated Twilicorn hate as either a 'phase' that people 'grow out of' or a case of whiny man-children throwing a hissy fit. I think it should be made clear that this isn't the case. A lot of us have tried desperately to like this idea and have failed.

 

And for those who leave the fandom because of this? Maybe they're making the right choice for themselves. I used to be one of the most avid members of the Tekken fandom, have played every Tekken ever made, participated in UK tournaments, played over 800 hours on Tekken 6 alone, been considered one of the finest Kuma/Zafina players in Europe, won a bunch of online tourneys over the years, been an incredibly active member of the online community... and I gave it all up. I stopped playing entirely, forever. And I do not regret my decision. Sure, I get the odd moment when I reminisce about the old days, but it's all behind me now. So I can genuinely understand if people want to leave, because it might just be the right thing for them to do.

[AppleJared 87]

I think Twilight being an Alicorn is a fine thing. People keep complaining about the season finale, but Danny Ingram basically writing the episode was great. As a music lover and Ingram fan, I loved that episode. So what there wasn't much dialogue? We already knew what was going to happen at the end, and having a side story would just make the episode painful.

Yes, there were several songs. Please point me in the direction of the problem.

 

As far as Twilicorn goes, not much will change. Hasbro wouldn't DARE break up the Mane 6. I think her having wings will just make her moar cute. Have you seen the picture of her with wings saying "My wings are all ticklish!"?

Adorable.

This will just present her a new set of problems and obstacles to solve. Anyone who left the fandom because of Twilicorn will get no sympathy from me.

[PoniesPlease 365]

It should be said that, although Twilight is the main character, there are 5 other ponies, and a baby dragon, not to mention the hundreds of other characters both major and minor on the show. Just because one gets wings doesn't mean you can't keep on enjoying the show, regardless of your animosity towards Twilicorn.

[Circadian 1,273]

 

This made me feel better about Twilight Sparkle's ascension. I like to think this opens up more places and ideas for the show to explore. Change is hard, but change is the way of the world. 

[SBaby 660]

Although, it should be noted, I've lost my trust in the writers because of this. You can tell me to believe in them all you want, but the only way I can do so is if they earn it back. They've messed up in my eyes, and I need to see them fix their mistake before I can trust them again.

 

I'll respond to this part of your post, because it's really the only point I can effectively argue.  As you read this, bear in mind that I am one who's more/less indifferent about the Twilicorn issue.  My only real gripe with it is the fact that I think this should've happened over the course of two or three episodes (two at the very minimum).  A change like this should never be done in a single episode.  Otherwise, I'm fine with it, as long as they use it effectively next season.

 

But the fact is, whether you agree with this or not, whether you think the show CAN stay the same after this or not, you are completely misdirecting your anger.  You are angry about an ant infestation, and you are taking it out on the workers when you should be upset at the proverbial Queen.

 

Here's the thing.  The writers were NOT the ones that made this decision.  It was Hasbro.  And they did it to push a new line of toys, which is unfortunately something they do all the time.  If the writers had refused to do this, Hasbro would've just replaced them with writers that WERE willing to do this, and it still would've happened, possibly in a way you might consider to be even worse.  Don't believe me on this?  It happened twice in Beast Wars.  The thing you have to understand about writers, is that a company can replace an entire writing staff in about five seconds, since there's ALWAYS people that have dreamed of writing for TV shows. 

 

Ultimately, the point I would make is this.  If you are going to lose your trust in anyone, it should be Hasbro and not the writers, since it was Hasbro that gave the order to do this.

Edited April 14, 2013 by SBaby