Should we or should we not shun the lesser liked parts of the fandom?

[Diva Pony 345]

When I first started on this forum a few weeks ago I had to look up "clopper" to find out what it was.  And I just smiled because why is this such a big deal?  And I also don't know what rule 34 is and I can probably die happily not knowing.

 

But think about it.  When you were young did you play with dolls?  Did the dolls (Barbie and Ken come to mind) ever get it on in your play world?  Some people find the ponies attractive enough to think of them as real and they enjoy the sexual aspect of that.  It's fantasy.  And guess what? Our forum is a supposedly safe place to say what you like hopefully without being attacked.  That is why people are on a forum with ficticious names instead of real.  Because on a forum you can be whoever you truly are.

 

I don't know "where" the clopper section is on this forum are and I really don't care.  If they want to swap pony pictures isn't that a heck of a lot more harmless than swapping real people porn pictures?  Doesn't that sort of say that this is fantasy only and that no one plans on going out and screwing a live horse?  C'mon @Pinkie Perry --- stop judging people because you don't understand something!  You truly are doing what Bronies wish the haters would stop doing.  There is no difference and you are preaching big time double standard here.

 

As for the grimdark is it?  OK, I don't understand violence but again, these are animated characters.  Maybe this is an outlet of frustration for some people.  I don't want to see the pictures and no one has asked me to.  No, I don't understand violence in any art form but that's the point.  I DON'T UNDERSTAND.  That doesn't make it wrong.

 

And as some have said on this post, there might be a couple of people in this forum (and in so many walks of life) who do bad things to others in real life.  How do you know they include themselves with either of these groups in question? 

 

If you truly believe in what MLP teaches, you cannot possibly shun, judge or condemn any member of this fandom.

[Dattebayo 2,850]

Every brony is a homie.

Accept your fellow bronies for what they are, and fight haters to the death defending them.

 

That's my philosophy.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

When I first started on this forum a few weeks ago I had to look up "clopper" to find out what it was.  And I just smiled because why is this such a big deal?  And I also don't know what rule 34 is and I can probably die happily not knowing.

"r34" stands for "rule 34" which is one of the unofficial "rules of the internet". The rule is "If it exists, there is porn of it."

[Icedog68 71]

What is innocent about looking at pics of people screwing toon ponies?

Put it like this. Either we crack down on clopping, or sooner or later, Hasbro will crack down on our fandom. Remember, bronies make up a minority of their customers. A lot of the money we spend on MLP (conventions) etc doesn't even go to Hasbro.

Well... there are thought to be 7-12.4 MILLION bronies in the US ALONE! Thats alot of money they make off of bronies!

[Nine 707]

Porn and gore has its roots in every fandom, because porn and gore (as such) apparently has a large fan base. Naturally people need to make it *of* something, so anything and everything winds up on the list.

 

But as a fan of something that was in no way intended as a violent or pornographic medium, I think I'm permitted to say that those "adaptations" do not derive from the core reasons to be a fan in the first place. They are aberrant undercurrents that run through every fandom, that leech on those fandoms to supply new material.

 

Obviously my negative language probably indicates my opinion here, but note that it's my opinion of the clop and goreshit. I realize that it's popular, that many people like it, and on the privacy of a person's computer, it does no harm. I'm not going to tell a person they're bad, or that they're enjoying ponies wrong because they indulge popular interests, even if I don't like them. Which I don't.

 

Not that it's necessary to attack a person anyway. If you're like me, and you wish that stuff would go away, all one really needs or has to say is that they don't support the creation of that material. Most people who like it are going to feel like they've been criticized anyway, even when you make it clear that your opinion isn't of them.

 

I don't believe that stuff adds anything to the fandom. At best, it's benign but thematically totally unrelated to the show. At worst, it's circulation in public casts a negative light on the fandom, as it does on every fandom blighted by these things.

 

The takeaway (tl;dr) is that just because I shouldn't say anything mean about the people in these corners of the fandom, that doesn't mean I have to say *anything* nice about the material itself.

[SFyr 1,982]

Looking through this topic, it seems pretty apparent that the overall concensus is accept or at least tolerate.

As I've said, my interest in clop is small, but existant, so in some capacity I kinda have my lot thrown in with that side of the fandom regardless, even if I don't consider myself a true clopper. Either way, I feel pretty accepted by the community, and I think that kind of acceptance breeds more acceptance in individuals of the fandom.

Besides, talking magical ponies were strange from the start.

I've kinda been pretty big on the stance of, we should as a general rule accept people until we're given a strong enough reason not to, that goes beyond the slippery-slope or non sequitur fallacies. At worst, live and let live, or call the cops because they're going to actually do serious harm to those around them.

However, I think people still should be able to tell them what they like is strange, so long as it's done civily and without malice. For example, I'm also a borderline furry. Yes, my taste in art asthetics can be freaking strange to some, and I'm okay with them saying so--as someone who sees a ton of furry stuff on a regular basis, I'll probably have more wierdness to comment on than they will, and know more about what there is to dislike about the fandom (this isn't just conjecture or assumed). I'm okay being a deviant from the norm, and I'll happily accept people having legitimate reasons for disliking what I like, just as I'll accept people with legitimate reasons to like what I don't.

 

Heck, I like the "bacterial contamination" form of Hatsune Miku over her human form. I dare say she's prettier to me like that. I call her 'grasshopper chick' in conversations with people who know I'm fond of her--I don't think they liked the jawless half-bodied look though.

 

Regardless, I have reasons for why I like certain things; not fully concrete reasons always, but still valid stories and explanations I could give if asked. I've come to assume the same of other people, and it's harder to think badly of them in light of that. After all, they very likely have their reasons for their interests too. Some things that just strike me as really strange even become a bit of a curiosity, simply because I want to know why people like it.

Going back to MLP. Yes, I like the occasional clop artwork/fanfic, especially if (or just if) it's done well, and I'm glad Cupcakes was written. If nothing else, it adds variance. Each little part of the fandom makes it grander in my eyes, so long as it's done well and has the potential to be harmlessly enjoyable. I like the fandom not just for the show, or the ponies, but also its artists, musicians, commentators, writers, socialites, and warm-hearted people hailing from (almost) all walks life.

 

@@Diva Pony, I would add you as a friend if you weren't one already.   I also love your initial reaction, as it seems to hint that you're quite an accepting/open-minded person.

Also, there is no clop section on this forum, haha. And honestly, I'm not upset about it in the least; the choice makes sense, and it seems to allow the focus to stay on less controversial and more constructive topics.

 

@@Nine, I can respect that. I 'do' think a lot of porn and darker stuff has less to do with the fandom and more to do with the people and their interests, and MLP just gets used as the outlet or the provider of substance sometimes.

Regardless, I welcome you disliking it, or hating it, or however you are brought to feel about it, so long as you continue to not take it out on people unfairly. I personally think it adds to the fandom a tad, but that's a personal belief, and something I won't push for other people to agree with.

Either way, I'm not one to want to force people to see NSFW or distasteful stuff if it's something they don't like. If I knew someone in particular didn't like something I have a foot in, it's likely not gonna come up in conversation unless it was purposely made a topic for discussion. And, I hope other people feel the same way. I'm just sorry clop material/gore is sometimes hard to filter out completely, as I'd prefer people to have an easier time of not seeing it if they didn't want to.

 

@@ghostfacekiller39, just so it's said, I enjoy how secure you are in what you like.   It's pleasant to see you around the forums, haha.

 

 

We should shun every part of the fandom that disagrees with me and my ideals.

This made me laugh. I like you already. Edited March 22, 2014 by SFyr

[TwilightDreamer 69]

Then shunning the underrated parts of the brony fandom would make the rest of us bronies and pegasisters no better than those that we turn our noses at. The lesser known/liked parts of the fandom should be appreciated for what they are and we should always give them a chance to shine in the spotlight and we can tolerate them even if they don't grab our attention.

 

I did that with AlexLoneWolf and later on loved his fanfiction story "A New Hero" since it puts on a different spin on the show if there was a seventh character with the Mane 6 while everyone else nags that he's just a "Gary-Stu" when in reality, beneath the text of the story, there's more to it if read multiple times and looked on hard enough.

[Adachi 772]

In the wise words of Karma from LoL, "Never become a monster to fight one". Also, "Ideals are meaningless, unless you're willing to fight for them!"

[Diva Pony 345]

@SFyr thank you for the compliment and the laugh about the non-existent section.  :-)  Now of course knowing how naive I am, what is a furry?

 

@andaasonsan thank you for the explanation of r34 but now I am curious- does the number 34 represent something?  As in why that number and not 82 or 167?

 

I actually voted "other" in the choices that we had.  The first choice wasn't awful but it seemed very judgmental.  It sounds more like "you are disgusting but I'm going to pretend you aren't".  That's why I didn't go with the first option.

[SomariFeyWright 776]

 

 

 

... But seriously, of course we shouldn't shun them. Shun nopony. They're people too, for Celestia's sake. If they don't hate us for NOT doing it, who are we to hate them FOR doing it?

 

Honestly now, this should be a no-brainer...

[Windseeker 546]

There is no real self-identified group within our community, granted there are the cloppers, but I think that is due to bronies labeling pony folk who masturbate to other ponies with a derogatory term. Hence some people decided to wear that title proudly as we pretty much created them.

 

I don't think we should shun them, god no, its not gonna improve public opinion on Bronydom by doing so anyways. They are bronies and always will be in the eyes of outsiders and fellow Herd members whether we like it or not.

 

Then there are the folks who play the 'I'm a brony who isn't a brony' card ,everyone pretty much refuses to acknowledges their status anyways.

[SFyr 1,982]

@SFyr thank you for the compliment and the laugh about the non-existent section.  :-)  Now of course knowing how naive I am, what is a furry?

 

Furries are nouns in two senses.

The original bit (I think), is shorthand for anthropomorphic animals, or animals that bear humanoid traits. I think it also got shortened to where anthropomorphs or anthros tend to be animal-humans more often than not, even though it would just mean something with human qualities. Regardless. Furries. Generally talking animals or anime-esque animal girls (usually cat girls) ...or more iconically of the name, hybrid species covered in fur with the body structure of a human, but with animalistic paws, face, tail, ears, and other aspects of some species of animal.

Furries as the community, identity, or whatever, are the fans of these. They're seen by many as a dark spot or blight on the internet, as their fandom is rich with weirdness and perverted art/interests. Obviously this is not indicative of the entire community, or the fandom, but they have a lot more of those outspoken-and-questionable (or straight weird) individuals than MLP likely ever will. I find it kinda funny that cloppers get flak over supposedly wanting to have sex with actual ponies--furries get the same flak over dogs, cats, foxes, cows, horses, snakes, dolphins, birds, their own pets theoretically, etc.

One of said weird/questionable spots for some is that furries actually have quite a large percentage of homosexual/bisexual/pansexual individuals in their ranks, and their art has a ton of very sexualized, and gender-strange OCs. Hermaphrodites are actually fairly common, as are pornographic artists and fans of theirs. They have their own slew of slang for sexual acts too (see yiffing). Suffice to say sex is a large thing in terms of public visibility. Another simple fact is that there are stories and sexual interests with feral OCs (physically 95%+ animal, human in intellect only), though it often is mirrored with MLP in that yes, they're animals, but not really. On top of that, there're the fursuiters (a minority) who give the community a strange image of the fans themselves, and the otherkin who believe they have the soul/spirit of an animal and are trapped in a human's body--or something similar.

Many, many furries are rational individuals with level heads and cool people. Many are phenomenal artists, great writers, and healthy people overall.

However, a huge swath are weird as heck. And a huge swath also has sexualization on the brain. These two swaths overlap both the better and worse individuals.

And there are plenty of strange parts of the fandom that earn flak, and many individuals who don't give the public the best image.

I don't consider myself 100% a furry simply because while I count myself a fan of the topic, I don't really feel able to associate myself with the community, because the community a lot deeper and more diverse than the actual interest topic, and the topic itself has many different expressions.

 

...Sorry if I went into too much detail, but I wanted to give you a strong idea of what a furry is, and why I brought it up. 

 

 

 

Also, I think rule 34 was given that number as just a humorous list of 'internet rules' related to 4chan. It simply became iconic, and the other rules are comparitively negligable. 

I'm not sure if this is the original, or even official, but here:

Edited March 23, 2014 by SFyr

[SveciaDash 364]

Well... they're just as much brony as you.

[Diva Pony 345]

@SFyr  Wow, thanks for the very detailed answers to my questions.  I thought rule 34 was something like a symbolic number.  Didn't realize someone made up an internet rule book and that just happens to be number 34.  I have to say it is very funny though.

Thank you for taking the time.

[InspiredBrony 31]

Just leave them be. They only bother you if you stay around the same area as them.

[DerpyFanatic 114]

So, you're going to accept bronies who do things like slut-shaming, beating off to kiddy porn and rape apology? I'm not OK with that. Love and tolerance does not mean turning a blind eye to unethical and criminal activity.

[BastementSparkle 20,326]

So, you're going to accept bronies who do things like slut-shaming, beating off to kiddy porn and rape apology? I'm not OK with that. Love and tolerance does not mean turning a blind eye to unethical and criminal activity.

 You just blurted this out of nowhere. Were you trying to reply to someone in particular? Nobody was talking about anything like that. Clop, and grimdark content doesn't have to be about things like that.

Edited March 24, 2014 by BasementPony

[DerpyFanatic 114]

I brought it up because posters were doing their best to avoid it and saying "we should accept EVERYPONY no matter what". No matter what? Even if they're potential child molesters?

 

 

Clop, and grimdark content doesn't have to be about things like that.

 

Some of it is. Go and read Sweet Apple Massacre and THEN tell me there's no foal-fiddling involved.

 

I'd like to share something with you, this was posted on the Brony Horror Stories tumblr:

 

 

There was this one time I got to go to a brony meeting. I was the only girl among men in their middle twenties (I was 17 at the time). Through the meeting I’ve seen nothing wrong, talking about the show and everything until I realized there was this guy who tried to take a picture up my skirt. When I called him out on it, he said that I obviously was there because I’m seeking male attention, because that’s expected from a girl in a “male” community and because I was wearing ‘such a short skirt’. That sort of caught me off-guard as I realized they were so nice because they tried to flirt with me. I stated clearly, that I’m in relationship, only to hear them joking about that it’s ‘not going to last long’. Because I was loud and cheery and because my skirt was knee-high somehow I became a ‘whore’ in their eyes. One of them proposed that we ‘go to his place’. One of them actually tried to lift my skirt and the other one put his hand around my shoulders when I specifically stated not to touch me, while I was waiting for someone to pick me up. Later they posted pictures of me (mostly with the guy who hugged me without asking) and declined taking them down.

I know, this is not nightmarish. I just wanted to talk about it without being ridiculed.

 

Is this behaviour OK to you? Because it isn't to me or to wider society.

Edited March 24, 2014 by DerpyFanatic

[BastementSparkle 20,326]

I brought it up because posters were doing their best to avoid it and saying "we should accept EVERYPONY no matter what". No matter what? Even if they're potential child molesters?

 

 

 

Some of it is. Go and read Sweet Apple Massacre and THEN tell me there's no foal-fiddling involved.

 

I'd like to share something with you, this was posted on the Brony Horror Stories tumblr:

 

 

Is this behaviour OK to you? Because it isn't to me or to wider society.

 I was simply confused as your post kind of came out of nowhere. You just showed up and started talking about slut shaming, when nobody was talking about it. If you wanted to bring those issues up, because you felt they were important, then fine. You just came off as a bit hostile for no reason.

 

 Also, no that kind of behavior is most certainly not ok, and should never be accepted. But there are plenty of cloppers and grimdark fans, who would never even think of doing something like that. I like both clop and grimdark stuff, and the idea of doing those things absolutely disgusts me. The thought of harming anyone in such a manner makes me feel ill.

Edited March 24, 2014 by BasementPony

[HeroSparks 232]

I brought it up because posters were doing their best to avoid it and saying "we should accept EVERYPONY no matter what". No matter what? Even if they're potential child molesters?

 

 

 

Some of it is. Go and read Sweet Apple Massacre and THEN tell me there's no foal-fiddling involved.

 

I'd like to share something with you, this was posted on the Brony Horror Stories tumblr:

 

 

Is this behaviour OK to you? Because it isn't to me or to wider society.

No, it's not acceptable, but this is neither unique to nor a defining characteristic of fans of clop and grimdark. This exists throughout all fandoms and walks of life. What you're saying is because one fan did this, they all do. Which is akin to saying because one Mexican is lazy, they all are. Because one black guy stole, they all do. Because one white guy did drugs, they all do. See how that doesn't work?

Edited March 24, 2014 by HeroSparks

[Denim&Venöm 18,890]

Definitely not shun. Just because you disagree with someones tastes doesn't give you the right to pick on them for it. That makes you little different than the douche wads who pick on Bronies in high schools and colleges for wearing their hearts on their sleeves. How would you like it if it happened to you? Seems cliche, but relevant nonetheless. We all like My Little Pony regardless. Why can't we take solace in that fact?

[Diva Pony 345]

I brought it up because posters were doing their best to avoid it and saying "we should accept EVERYPONY no matter what". No matter what? Even if they're potential child molesters?

 

 

 

I understand what you are saying but I think there is an overlapping of meaning here.

 

This particular conversation is over accepting people for their preferences or shunning and condemning them.  We do need to accept everypony on this forum no matter what their beliefs or interests are just as we expect everyone to accept our own beliefs and interests.

 

But when a person or pony chooses to hurt another, that doesn't mean we are all for it. 

 

Your story is very sad and very unfortunate.  If you have a way to communicate with that young woman I think you should suggest that she report what happened to wherever that meeting was held- if it was at a school then the school needs to know what kind of behavior went on during that meeting.  All it takes is one overactive hormonal jerk who has influence over the rest of the group to turn a seemingly nice meeting into sexual harassment of a minor and they could get into a lot of trouble for it.  And even if all that happens is that someone teaches them that this is not "cool" or acceptable behavior, she could be helping someone else down the road who might otherwise get into trouble with these same guys.

Thankfully at least they did not go further with it.

[SFyr 1,982]

 

 

 

There was this one time I got to go to a brony meeting. I was the only girl among men in their middle twenties (I was 17 at the time). Through the meeting I’ve seen nothing wrong, talking about the show and everything until I realized there was this guy who tried to take a picture up my skirt. When I called him out on it, he said that I obviously was there because I’m seeking male attention, because that’s expected from a girl in a “male” community and because I was wearing ‘such a short skirt’. That sort of caught me off-guard as I realized they were so nice because they tried to flirt with me. I stated clearly, that I’m in relationship, only to hear them joking about that it’s ‘not going to last long’. Because I was loud and cheery and because my skirt was knee-high somehow I became a ‘whore’ in their eyes. One of them proposed that we ‘go to his place’. One of them actually tried to lift my skirt and the other one put his hand around my shoulders when I specifically stated not to touch me, while I was waiting for someone to pick me up. Later they posted pictures of me (mostly with the guy who hugged me without asking) and declined taking them down.

I know, this is not nightmarish. I just wanted to talk about it without being ridiculed.

Is this behaviour OK to you? Because it isn't to me or to wider society.

EDIT: No, those probably aren't the people to blindly accept, but again, it doesn't really reflect on cloppers, just horrible people that have little to do with MLP, clop material, or anything of the sort~

Just people with behavior problems, unrelated to their interests.

Yes, these are bad people to include in the fandom, and turning a blind eye to them and accepting their horrible actions doesn't seem to be the best thing to do. However, until that point, I don't see why they should carry a red mark.

Basically, I believe we should accept cloppers as a general rule, until an exception must be made for an individual. 

 

* I originally wrote something long thinking you were criticizing cloppers, not the problematic minority. Sorry.

Edited March 24, 2014 by SFyr

[DerpyFanatic 114]

On the subject of clopping, though, I think there's way too much rule 34. It makes me wish for a moratorium on new clop because there's just so much of it. Would it kill anypony to turn it down a little?

[Celli 4,338]

Well, Bronies are supposed to be kind and caring, so we should be accepting of everybody.