"Its just a kid show" "you are overthinking it" >.>

[Justin_Case001 4,858]

I enjoy a good "who is best pony" thing as much as the next person, but I need MORE sometimes

 

 

But seriously, I agree with you.  I love analysis and headcanons, even those that will and can never be answered by the show.  I myself of guilty of entertaining complex headcanons that were already basically disproved from the get-go, but I enjoy them anyway.  It's fun.  One of the things I love most about this show is that they've managed to create a truly respectable lore and universe that is rich enough to support deep analysis and headcanons.

 

Specifically, I think that the "it's just a kid's show" defense is sort of a cop-out.  Dismissing the show as "only a kid's show" implies that it doesn't matter if it makes sense, has good continuity, or quality in general.  Instead, we should be striving to give kids the best possible experience.  I'd like to reference Lauren Faust's introduction to the Elements of Harmony show companion book.  She explained, very elegantly, how to children, fantasy like this is very special and meaningful, and by writing it off as dumb, silly, or "just a kid's show", adults send the message that fantasy like this isn't worth the time of day.  But this isn't true at all.  It is meaningful.  Upbeat, cute, colorful fantasy is just as important and special as mature, dark fantasy, and I think the rise of this fandom proves that.  Faust's vision for FIM was to make a cute pony show that also takes itself seriously enough to show the world that this kind of fantasy is indeed worth the time and effort, and I think she did just that.

[Dark Qiviut 22,185]

 

 

Do you truly feel as though your (or someone else's) analyses are comparable to the original creative works that they're analyzing?

No, and it's really unfair to compare something like a painting to the review of a painting, because both are completely different art forms. To review or analyze is to think about how you lay out your words and your content. You're creating something in written or semi-pictorial form in response to stimuli. A reviewer's or analyst's job is to convince the audience if what he or she said or wrote makes sense. An excellent analysis may be enough to sway the viewer's opinion to the other side, even if just a bit a bit.

 

Often, it can be really frustrating to write it all down if you don't know how to word it well. You can get writer's block in written analysis just as easily as fiction writing.

 

 

 

And it's not about "right" or "wrong"; you're ultimately stating an opinion.

Expressing an opinion doesn't mean I'm going to give the opinion a pass. Lazy, faulty, nonsensical, or ignorant opinions are wrong opinions. If they're going to cut corners with me, they need to be prepared for me to call them out and explain why their opinions make no sense.

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

There is something that i have learned over the years. Not just with the brony fandom, but from also being in the wrestling fandom and a pretty vocal one at that. No matter what you say, you say it wrong. There is always this guy, who wants to make you go quiet for whatever reason. Be it that your opinion hurts him (for whatever reason,) be it that he is getting sick of the topic, being that he just finds your opinion bad etc. Just hold on to your opinion, you will not be able to make friends with everyone with that.

 

When it comes to the show/fandom itself, i have my certain things that i like to do, which is mostly talking about the show itself, doing roleplays, or just having fun in general. What i don't like to do, is jumping to conclusions or making speculations about the show, because if i do, i feel like most of the time that i will not get the things that i want and i will just go in totally naked into each episode and i think that does me alot of good, because i can rate the episodes for what they are. But what i will never do, is telling people that what they are doing is useless, because by that logic, being in this forum and the internet itself is useless.

 

The only thing that i hope for, is that we will have Lamiaponies one day in the show and if that happens, i will party for 100 days straight.

[Metemponychosis 1,238]

@@Buck Testa,You know what that actually is? That is a "shut up" tactic and it often appears when people disagree, but don't really know how to expose their position. Because when people think that you're wrong and CAN show it to you, they'll talk. If there is one thing I've learned about the internet is that a lot of people don't really want to talk about stuff. Exchange ideas. Have fun learning about what other people think and maybe even finding out that something can be seen with different eyes and can have a different interpretation.They're just looking for an echo chamber where others simply agree with them.

[AlbaTross 1,581]

I was considering moving this topic, as it's related to a strawman argument surrounding the show, but as I think it has more to do with the fandom, I think I will leave it here for the time being. I might consult with my fellow mods to decide whether or not to move it. Either way the conversation should not be affected in any way, ao carry on.

[cider float 2,536]

For example: the only restriction on the "Twilight vs. Tirek" fight was "no punching in the face."

 

Didn't seem to bother them one bit.

But wait didn't Twilight shoot Tirek in the face?

[Jest (Inactive) 875]

On a forum people can post the opposite opinions to what you are posting and don't need the OP permission to do it as long as it's within the topic and the rules. Alot of people watch the show on quite a casual level and think that all this crazy over analysis doesn't do anything but add pointless complexity and negativity to it, I am one of those people.   

[Buck Testa 5,503]

On a forum people can post the opposite opinions to what you are posting and don't need the OP permission to do it as long as it's within the topic and the rules. Alot of people watch the show on quite a casual level and think that all this crazy over analysis doesn't do anything but add pointless complexity and negativity to it, I am one of those people.  

 

 Opposite opinions are not what I'm talking about. I welcome opposite opinions and debate, those are always fun. This is specifically talking about derailing a topic because you don't like it with phrases like 'you are overthinking it" and "its just a kid show." You can tell me I'm wrong all day long, and you can make your case on that matter as well, please feel free to obliterate whatever it is with reason and evidence. However when its just one sentence barely reaching the character limit saying one of these copypasted phrases to derail a topic then thats where problems start to arise. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by Buck Testa

[That Guy with the CMB 5,872]

I love to make and share theories and head canons. Its something I've done with many MANY fandoms i've been in. Be it Kingdom Hearts, or an anime I was watching, or whatever, I've had made elaborate theories that connect different pieces of info in a bunch of different ways. It doesn't really matter to me if one of these theories doesn't pan out, or if its disproved by canon later on, because this is just how I enjoy the show/game I'm into at the moment. 

 

And yet, almost invariably, there is always someone who feels the need to roll in with a bucket of cold water on any given conversation. 

"You are overthinking it"

"its just a kid show"

"its pointless"

 

They are adding literally NOTHING to the conversation and they try to stifle any given topic they don't find interesting. The most infuriating thing is their comment actually tends to be the last post because...really, who wants to follow up on a topic after that jarring slamming of the breaks in a conversation the outside person hadn't been interested in the first place. 

 

I'm going to be real here, it's pretty damn triggering for me. 

 

I put a lot of time into a topic, I get pictures, I site scenes, I put all these different things together not because I think that the writers thought of everything, but because the POTENTIAL is there and it could be used. I'm showing my passion for something I love, LIKE mlp, and yet those few people who just wants to have conversations about the most surface level things of the show feel the need to try and kill topics that have some challenge and thought behind them. 

 

I enjoy a good "who is best pony" thing as much as the next person, but I need MORE sometimes, and I know there are people just like me who are now too disheartened to make those kind of topics. Sometimes I want to talk about the theoretical political structure of Equestria even if the things I'm inferring are never going to be entirely answered by the show. Sometimes I want to bring up the implications behind cutie marks and what they mean to a ponies freedom of choice even if every little piece of evidence I bring up could be blown out of the water in a single episode. 

 

If that's not your thing, Golden, Nobody is forcing you to click the topic and forcing you to hear whatever I or others had churned up that day for a discussion. Please though, I'm begging you here, Don't just go in to say "You are thinking about it too much" or "its just a kid show" or "the writers didn't think of that"

 

Its all understood, we all know this, nobody forgot that. You don't want to be dismissed because you like a show about ponies, you wouldn't want your passion brushed aside simply because the other person thought what you liked was dumb. Please extend that courtesy to me and anyone else who wants to weave a theory that may or may not pan out. 

 

I would rather you prove me wrong, clearly and concisely, than posting that the discussion shouldn't even be had in the first place because it shouldn't be "overthought"

 

During your time in this fandom/on this forum, have you ever had or seen a topic killed off by this kind of thing? What do you think about my position on this? 

Yes, my topic has been killed off by something similar. I don't mean to bring it up or offend the people who did it, but I asked a "What If?" question, which is most likely always going to not make much sense - but I wanted an answer as to what people would do. Instead, every single response was some in-depth analysis on why that would never happen.

 

Like, play along, plz.

[geartree 33]

How's this: You do what you want, and I'll do what I want. Realistically, if it's something that "triggers" you, you're better off working on yourself than attempting to change how everyone else behaves. I might dislike or complain about what someone else does (and not infrequently), but I can't actually or consistently make them stop doing it. I've never mistakenly thought that I wielded that sort of power. If you're genuinely shut down by someone pointing out what's kind of obvious (and not necessarily untrue), I'd question just how passionate you were about it to begin with. Keep talking if you wanna keep talking; no one can stop you but you.

 

But, if you are this passionate, I'd suggest channeling that passion into something else. A fanfic, for example. Want to explore something the show hasn't canonically explored? Want to do it without said "buckets of cold water?" Write a fanfic. Write a dozen of them; that's what fanfics are for.

 

*Throws bucket of cold water on nothing in particular. Writes a fanfic about a cold bucket of water.*

This post triggered me. Oh I am so oppressed!

[simba86 1,541]

How's this: You do what you want, and I'll do what I want.  Realistically, if it's something that "triggers" you, you're better off working on yourself than attempting to change how everyone else behaves.  I might dislike or complain about what someone else does (and not infrequently), but I can't actually or consistently make them stop doing it.  I've never mistakenly thought that I wielded that sort of power.  If you're genuinely shut down by someone pointing out what's kind of obvious (and not necessarily untrue), I'd question just how passionate you were about it to begin with.  Keep talking if you wanna keep talking; no one can stop you but you.

 

But, if you are this passionate, I'd suggest channeling that passion into something else.  A fanfic, for example.  Want to explore something the show hasn't canonically explored?  Want to do it without said "buckets of cold water?"  Write a fanfic.  Write a dozen of them; that's what fanfics are for.

 

*Throws bucket of cold water on nothing in particular.  Writes a fanfic about a cold bucket of water.*

pretty much this, if the OP wants to spend days pondering something that already has a simple answer that is canon to the show or use every brain cell to try to probe and infer deeper meaning and hidden messages in a Y7 cartoon then go for it, just don't complain about being "triggered" when someone points out the obvious answer or how silly it is to spend days trying to figure out why something was born an alicorn when the answer is simple. if someone is so easily "triggered" then maybe a forum where others have free will and differing opinions is not a safe place for them .

and is "triggered" yet another buzz word people are using now? seems like all of a sudden people are getting triggered over everything LOL

[Buck Testa 5,503]

This post triggered me. Oh I am so oppressed!

 

pretty much this, if the OP wants to spend days pondering something that already has a simple answer that is canon to the show or use every brain cell to try to probe and infer deeper meaning and hidden messages in a Y7 cartoon then go for it, just don't complain about being "triggered" when someone points out the obvious answer or how silly it is to spend days trying to figure out why something was born an alicorn when the answer is simple. if someone is so easily "triggered" then maybe a forum where others have free will and differing opinions is not a safe place for them .

and is "triggered" yet another buzz word people are using now? seems like all of a sudden people are getting triggered over everything LOL

Latching onto a single word to discredit an entire post, classy

 

Once again, as I've said to the guy you responded to, The problem isn't with opposing viewpoints, its attempting to kill a debate with copy pasted statements that have no real thought behind them. I more than welcome being proven wrong, I more than welcome bringing in things to prove/disprove whatever it is I'm talking about. Dismissing it with a pointless post that barely meets the character limit and yet derails the conversation is what I have a problem with. 

 

The point is if you are going to contribute to the conversation, ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE, posting things off topic to the discussion just cause you don't approve of is just not right on a number of levels, including in the rules of this very site. 

[Jest (Inactive) 875]

Latching onto a single word to discredit an entire post, classy

 

Once again, as I've said to the guy you responded to, The problem isn't with opposing viewpoints, its attempting to kill a debate with copy pasted statements that have no real thought behind them. I more than welcome being proven wrong, I more than welcome bringing in things to prove/disprove whatever it is I'm talking about. Dismissing it with a pointless post that barely meets the character limit and yet derails the conversation is what I have a problem with. 

 

The point is if you are going to contribute to the conversation, ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE, posting things off topic to the discussion just cause you don't approve of is just not right on a number of levels, including in the rules of this very site. 

 

Posting that over analysing a show because it is originally a kids show is not dismissing it, it's an opinion, and one that is pretty much based off fact, so it is not off topic, also, telling people what to post and what not to post, isn't that called backseat moderating?

Edited March 6, 2016 by Jestwinged

[Buck Testa 5,503]

Posting that over analysing a show because it is originally a kids show is not dismissing it, it's an opinion, and one that is pretty much based off fact, so it is not off topic, also, telling people what to post, isn't that called backseat moderating?

If I directly pursued those posts yes it would. 

 

That "opinion" is something everyone already knows before entering the conversation. Its implied knowledge. Like I said in the op "nobody forgot that"

 

So since everyone already knows the information, it doesn't need to be said, and thus saying it adds nothing to the conversation and in fact is made to derail and stop the conversation because that person doesn't approve of it. 

 

frankly I don't even believe in the concept of "over analysis" ; If we were to bow to that logic, Lauren Faust would never of been so passionate about MLP to create the series we all watch in the first place, and it would of remained an unchallenged giggle fest that it was originally. Nobody wants that. 

 

What I'm opposed to here isn't to "protect my precious feelings" or that I need a "safe space" , I'm defending the exchange of ideas regardless of its source, because that is where creativity stems from. Saying its pointless and not worth it kills creativity in general. 

[Jest (Inactive) 875]

@@Buck Testa,

 

You can word it however you want, but you are still telling people what and what not to do which isn't your place. If you already know the opinion then surely you expect it, and if you are so used to it why does it matter if it comes up again? Like I said earlier everyone has different opinions, if they want to make a comment like. ''I think this is just way over the top overanalysing'' so what? If it is truly off topic / against the rules then report it in the correct way by sending moderators a message or report button, not by demanding what people type.  

[Buck Testa 5,503]

@@Buck Testa,

 

You can word it however you want, but you are still telling people what and what not to do which isn't your place. If you already know the opinion then surely you expect it, and if you are so used to it why does it matter if it comes up again? Like I said earlier everyone has different opinions, if they want to make a comment like. ''I think this is just way over the top overanalysing'' so what? If it is truly off topic / against the rules then report it in the correct way by sending moderators a message or report button, not by demanding what people type.  

Because I'm hoping to at least change one persons mind on this matter and help them to understand what they are doing to a conversation and creativity. This isn't from a place of demanding, its a request for understanding and respect, and to see where my frustration with this kind of thing comes from. 

 

I don't want to have to get mods involved when an open dialogue can potentially fix it before it happens. I'm not saying these opinions aren't valid, I'm saying they are mutually understood and ultimately unnecessary to state.  

[Jeric 46,836]

There is a lot of 'meta' discussion going on here that I'll allow due to how the OP framed the discussion. Just remember to not get too personal when talking to another member in here about their approach to the mentality behind analysis.

 

Also, we do allow the conversation to organically shift in non debate topics. Spoon posted an announcement about this last year.

[Guest]

Honestly I resort to that mentality when it feels too much stock is being put into something and it's grabbing at straws or insanely overreacting. Like when people act like an episode is going to kill the fandom, you do need to chill and and realize it's a kids show. One episode has not killed the fandom and it would be very difficult to kill off the entire fandom. In those cases, yes you're overreacting.

 

Also in instances where people are grabbing at the tiniest straw and say that some really out there shit is proven by some very insignificant evidence. Such as when people get headcanons of stuff like characters being romantic with each other because they had 30 seconds of air time. At that point: yes you're overthinking it. But stuff like debating if changelings are truly the victims of circumstance or evil has enough grounds to form an actual theory to where I say "go nuts". However it's when people come up with these ridiculous ideas that are based upon absolutely nothing and are grabbing at every straw they can is when I say it's time to stop over thinking it.

 

 

 

it's immediately labeled objectively wrong

 

Yeah, as much as I love you DQ, you have to be VERY careful when using the word "objective" because that is speaking in an absolute. It also kind of emits an aura of superiority.

 

I will say that everyone thinks they are a critic, but Harlan Ellison said it best:

 

"A critic has a job".

 

And what he means is that a critic is not just someone who is critical of something and picks it apart. He is informed enough and professional enough to know what is a good point to attack and what is not. At the end of the day, everyone thinks their critique and criticism is the best and that it's spot on, but the truth is that no one's is spot on because that would imply that one person out there knows what is universally loved by all. 

 

 

As a critic and analyst, I do expect people criticizing my opinions. To publish a review is to publish on a public forum. I wouldn't be publishing them without expecting feedback, whether it's on here or in the EQD comments section. Much of my content has been criticized, and plenty of the criticisms have been, to put it lightly, ridiculous. I get a lot of people telling me, "you're overthinking it," "it's a kids' show," or some other dismissive crap. But they don't put in the effort to refute my points. In fact, they enforce my points because they tell me they don't have an argument and instead vie for shortcuts.

 

Errr... I know for a fact that isn't always true DQ. Sometimes when people propose a long and thought out counter point to your points... You never respond. I know because I've done it several times where I refute a point you've made and you never respond to it...

 

 

 

I'm going to tell them, "You're objectively wrong," and explain why because lazy opinions are wrong opinions,

 

Being a lazy opinion does not instantly mean it's objectively wrong. On top of that, it is your opinion that opinions are lazy. :I

 

 

 

Your sentence here shows you don't understand media analyzing and reviewing.

 

See this is not a good tactic to resort to. You're discrediting him by saying he basically doesn't understand the subject.

 

 

 

Expressing an opinion doesn't mean I'm going to give the opinion a pass. Lazy, faulty, nonsensical, or ignorant opinions are wrong opinions. If they're going to cut corners with me, they need to be prepared for me to call them out and explain why their opinions make no sense.

 

However we are talking about something subjective a lot of the time. Opinions are subjective. That is why they are opinions. So to say someone's opinion is "objectively wrong"  basically is saying your opinion is 100% without-a-doubt fact and I am pretty confident you can not back that up in every instance where you've claimed someone was objectively wrong.

 

There is an old saying that I am blanking on, but it more or less translates to: "He who screams in the face of his opposition does not turn as many to his will as he who calmly explains his side to them."

 

In other words: a review is meant to get people to form an opinion or look at things differently. If you spent the review or your critique insulting anyone who disagrees or being to aggressive about opposing opinions all you do is make people not listen. You could be saying the most right shit anyone has ever said, but what difference does it make if it changes no one's mind and no one listens because you're basically saying it like "HOW CAN YOU IDIOTS NOT SEE THIS!?" No one likes to feel like they are being insulted and DQ, you know I love you but I do have to say... Sometimes your critique comes off as insulting to people. It makes them get defensive because you don't bring your critique in a way that is non-hostile sometimes.

 

If you approach someone saying "I see your points, and I respect that, but have you ever considered this?" you'll get a lot better reaction than coming in like "You're wrong, here is why". I mean we're all guilty of doing that from time to time and it's a hard habit to break, but maybe you should consider being controversial while also being respectful? You pretty much are saying that anyone who criticizes your points must meet a list of criteria before you respect them and that is the fastest way to gain no traction. The reviewers we all know and love online generally respect their fans regardless of disagreeing with them.

 

Respect at the end of the day is the ticket to turning heads.

 

Just something to think about. 

[KatonRyu 1,026]

There's nothing wrong with overthinking and overanalyzing shows like MLP, or really any other show. Sometimes, however, a plot hole is so glaring that any attempt to reason it away chips away at what little sanity I possess. In those cases I usually repeat to myself 'it's just a kids' show, it wasn't mean to be analyzed like this' in order to not immediately start foaming at the mouth and twitching. I agree that some people say it far too early, but phrases like these do have their place whenever a show starts to be taken too seriously.

[simba86 1,541]

Latching onto a single word to discredit an entire post, classy

 

Once again, as I've said to the guy you responded to, The problem isn't with opposing viewpoints, its attempting to kill a debate with copy pasted statements that have no real thought behind them. I more than welcome being proven wrong, I more than welcome bringing in things to prove/disprove whatever it is I'm talking about. Dismissing it with a pointless post that barely meets the character limit and yet derails the conversation is what I have a problem with.

 

The point is if you are going to contribute to the conversation, ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE, posting things off topic to the discussion just cause you don't approve of is just not right on a number of levels, including in the rules of this very site.

 

yeah, except it's not off topic it's my personal view and opinion on the subject matter, maybe you should be the one to prove me wrong when I ask what difference it makes? Edited March 7, 2016 by simba86

[Buck Testa 5,503]

yeah, except it's not off topic it's my personal view and opinion on the subject matter, maybe you should be the one to prove me wrong when I ask what difference it makes.

Just to clarify, you are talking about your personal opinion of these theoretical topics and not this particular one right? Cause you are on topic here, that's not what I mean. 

 

If you do mean the types of topics and discussions I mean, the difference  it makes is that it discourages people from continuing the conversation and derails the topic entirely more often than not. These kind of thoughtless posts (as in the "You are overthinking it" "this is pointless" "its just a kid show" type posts) have killed off way to many topics on this and other sites, which is frustrating since a lot of it is things that are already understood by the people going into the discussion and is unnecessary to state. It doesn't add to the discussion, it attempts to end it because the poster doesn't like the discussion. 

 

Think about it like this, You are out with your friends and you are talking over theories on this movie you saw and what the sequel could be like, and then someone wanders in and says "this conversation is pointless, why are you even talking about this?"

 

Would you want to continue that conversation you were enjoying when someone so rudely interrupted? More likely than not the conversation ends or you get into a heated argument with the person who interrupted. What you are basically saying is to ignore the person who randomly came into the discussion they didn't like and told everyone involved that its pointless and not worth discussing.

 

Its an opinion, but its one that is purely toxic to the discussion at hand (whatever that may be) and ultimately doesn't need to be voiced since everyone involved already knows its just for entertainment purposes.  

Edited March 7, 2016 by Buck Testa

[Gestum 2,493]

Honestly, sometimes it needs to be said. I don't see the point of discussing the references to the Congo Crises or the bubonic plague. Mostly because there isn't any, but that doesn't stop people.