spoiler What if for a major plot twist of Starlight Glimmer...

[SaburoDaimando 1,196]

Personally, I would rather see a scenario with Starlight Glimmer that involves this following for a Season Finale.

 

King Sombra, Queen Chrysalis and Lord Tirek has formed an alliance together, terrorizing Equestria even worse than the three alone.  Twilight Sparkle decided to go after the terrible trio with her close friends(Rainbow Dash, Pinkie Pie, Rarity, Applejack and Fluttershy).  However, she orders Starlight Glimmer to remain in Canterlot for her safety.  Starlight is unwilling to do so, believing that she is not trusted enough, till Twilight reveals that if something bad happened to Starlight, the Princess of Friendship wouldn't forgive herself.  Starlight reluctantly agrees after learning of this.

 

Unfortuantely, despite their best efforts with the Rainbow Power, the Mane 6 are defeated by the Terrible Trio and are stripped of their magic.  When word got out, Starlight Glimmer decides she wants to take action against King Sombra, Queen Chrysalis and Lord Tirek.  Celestia, knowing fully well that she might end up being the last chance Equestria has, called upon her sister Princess Luna and the spirit of chaos Discord to aid Starlight in her fight, with Luna taking on her Nightmare Moon form to prove to Equestria that she has changed for the better.

 

Thus: Starlight Glimmer, Discord and Nightmare Moon have become the Last Champions of Equestria.

 

It would then lead to a final fight between the Last Champions(Starlight Glimmer, Nightmare Moon and Discord) and the Terrible Trio(King Sombra, Queen Chrysalis and Lord Tirek).  Much like the Twilight vs Tirek fight, this fight is on even grounds.  And much like that fight, the Terrible Trio uses the Mane 6 as a bargaining chip for them to surrender their magic.  All hope would be lost.

 

But as the Mane 6 embrace the fallen champions, the Rainbow of Light would ignite, re-energizing the Mane 6 and the Champions of their magic, and even giving Nightmare Moon, Discord and Starlight Glimmer Rainbow forms.  With their power restored, the Mane 6 and the Champions would confront the Terrible Trio once more, and with their magic combined, they would defeat and banish King Sombra, Queen Chrysalis and Lord Tirek back to Tatarus.

 

In the end, Starlight Glimmer, Princess Luna and Discord are declared heroes of Equestria, having redeemed themselves to all of Equestria and standing up to those who would dare to conquer the land.  And Starlight even gets a kiss from Sunburst for becoming the hero that Equestria needed.  Even her friends from "Our Town" (Double Diamond, Party Favor, Night Glider and Sugar Belle) were proud of how Starlight became the hero, and after all she did to them long ago, it was the least she could do.

 

Your thoughts on this idea?

Edited June 22, 2016 by SaburoDaimando

[Jeric 46,880]

I see your twist and raise the the more likely trope of reformed villain as hero in the season six finale. Been there in season four with Discord, but it is what I'm expecting. What I would like to see is Discord, Trixie, Gilda, and Starlight having to save the day against Chrysalis as a mic drop on the whole friendship as a force for redemption while still leaving Queeny unredeemed.

[Lil Pip 775]

cmarston1, on 18 Jun 2016 - 1:51 PM, said:

With how terrible and awful and rushed her "character reformation" was in The Cutie Re-Mark I would accept this.

Plus if it means that she actually gets punished for her actions this time around, than I am all for it.

Why do people think punishment is better than reformation? Punishment only causes resentment and reinforcing the idea that they are enemies, and it sends a message to the rest of the population that if you misbehave expect similar. But getting people to understand is better. How many times do we see America's jails just send criminals out for them to go back to jail shortly after? Its an arbitrary expectation that is without a sense of realism. Not to mention crime occurs more in poor neighborhoods, its just cycling it back to keep itself poor still arguably. The taxes going to jails instead of going to education.

SBaby, on 20 Jun 2016 - 02:44 AM, said:

Starlight turning out to be a villain honestly wouldn't be that impressive, because we've already seen her as a villain in the show.  No, in order to have a Captain Hydra character, Twilight would have to become the villain. 

 

But hey, FiM has a comic series, and one rule of comics as Harvey Dent put it is, 'You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain'.  So who knows?  It could happen if we got a really creative writer in on the show.  Or if they went to the FiM equivalent of Ravenloft.

 

Seriously though, wouldn't it be interesting if some major thing happened that caused Twilight to turn into a Nightmare form (even if only temporarily)?

That was done with SciTwi, so no need to do it now.

[user1342342 143]

Why do people think punishment is better than reformation? Punishment only causes resentment and reinforcing the idea that they are enemies, and it sends a message to the rest of the population that if you misbehave expect similar. But getting people to understand is better. How many times do we see America's jails just send criminals out for them to go back to jail shortly after? Its an arbitrary expectation that is without a sense of realism. Not to mention crime occurs more in poor neighborhoods, its just cycling it back to keep itself poor still arguably. The taxes going to jails instead of going to education.

That was done with SciTwi, so no need to do it now.

 

Why present the issue in a way that makes us have to choose? Why couldn't both happen? People still need to pay for their crimes, be it through jail or some other form of punishment. Society doesn't accept evil deeds, we remove people like that and punish them. The fact that Starlight was rewarded with friends instead of being rightfully punished is reprehensible. Other characters on the show received far greater punishments for crimes not even remotely comparable to what Starlight did, the double standards are more than apparent. Why not reform Tirek then? No punishment for him, hugs all around!

 

It's baffling how people like you can just accept this shit.

 

Poor people are no exception. While crime is more likely to happen in poor neighborhoods, the people that commit them are entirely responsible for the crime, and should be punished on a scale of how severe the crime was. 

[cuteycindyhoney 13,337]

Wait! What if Trixie, Diamond Tiara, Starlight Glimmer, Luna, and Discord were all faking it? They could team up and become the Equestrian Legion of Doom. They could then end the series with a bloody coup guaranteed to make the younger fans scream and have vicious nightmares fr weeks. 

 

Seriously though. Why would the writes suddenly come up with "Oh, Starlight was faking it." That would be poor writing to the extreme. It would be like ending the season with "And then Twilight woke up."

 

 

Why present the issue in a way that makes us have to choose? Why couldn't both happen? People still need to pay for their crimes, be it through jail or some other form of punishment.

 

Technically, Starlight committed no crime when she manipulated time. Twilight and Spike saw a series of possible futures. Starlight stopped herself, and NONE OF THOSE FUTURES actually came to be.  

[Unlikeable Pony 2,700]

Wait! What if Trixie, Diamond Tiara, Starlight Glimmer, Luna, and Discord were all faking it? They could team up and become the Equestrian Legion of Doom. They could then end Technically, Starlight committed no crime when she manipulated time. Twilight and Spike saw a series of possible futures. Starlight stopped herself, and NONE OF THOSE FUTURES actually came to be.  

According to multiverse theory, she merely moved laterally in time into alternate Timelines instead of actually changing the timeline, so all the timelines were STILL present at the end, they just came back to the Prime timeline at the episode's end.

She could neither alter or fix the timeline because there was an infinite number of timelines in existence.

(I know we're running into "COMICS ARE CANON" territory here, but I like to headcanon the above since Discord states in the comics that its impossible to actually alter the past when you time travel due to timey wimey shenanigans, so alternate timelines neatly fits together with that)

Edited June 23, 2016 by Unlikeable Pony

[King 5,626]

Just a reminder guys, please keep things on topic and civil. I don't want to see any arguments break out.

[Swifty 249]

Before or after she becomes a alicorn?

[Foxy Socks 2,603]

At this point it wouldn't make sense. It sounds like a lame and unrealistic idea for me. Why should she turn against her friends? Honestly it sounds bad.

 

The whole point was for her to be reformed, and learn what to do then. It doesn't make sense.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,700]

Before or after she becomes a alicorn?

LOL

As much as I'm hoping starlight ends up like discord and dissapears into the background as a secondary character after this season, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they made her an alicorn in the finale (just like sunset getting wings in FG)

[The MegaBrony 219]

Having Starlight betray the Mane 6 would be like if Luke Skywalker stole the Death Star instead of destroying it and fired it at the Rebel base. You get the picture.

Edited June 24, 2016 by The MegaBrony

[Megas 28,114]

I'm not the biggest fan of reformed Glim Glam either, but wouldn't a move like this just make people detest her more? 

 

Just gonna toss this out there, the walk cycle was still better than the lost episode itself

[Aurora Glimmer 494]

I'm not the biggest fan of reformed Glim Glam either, but wouldn't a move like this just make people detest her more?

That's what I argued in my post.

[Steve Piranha 29,495]

I'm not sure how's that gonna work. Starlight seems genuinely willing to change for the better, pulling out a Cap being HYDRA would feel forced (just like Cap ). Discord made sense, as he was still untrustworthy 

[Unlikeable Pony 2,700]

Spoilers: Luna was evil all along, she's just been PRETENDING to be good the past 5 seasons!
She kills celestia in the movie!

[Megas 28,114]

Spoilers: Luna was evil all along, she's just been PRETENDING to be good the past 5 seasons!

She kills celestia in the movie!

 

 

"IT'S ME CELESTIA! IT WAS ME ALL ALONG CELESTIA!"

Edited June 25, 2016 by Sideswipe

[SBaby 660]

Why couldn't both happen?

 

The simple reason for this is because a major protagonist turning evil can really only happen once.  If you start doing it too many times, it becomes stale, and the audience will very quickly realize they're being railroaded into a running gag.  And something like this should not be taken lightly.  If they're going to do it, they should do it decisively, but it isn't a good idea to abuse this kind of a plot twist.

 

The same can also be said for a villain that was turned good.  Take Nightmare Moon for instance.  If Luna lost control and turned back into NMM again, the audience would be like 'Well, here we go again'.  Same thing for Starlight Glimmer.  It won't have that shock value to it, and it really wouldn't be that interesting.  So if you're going to have a character turn evil, it should be someone who hasn't yet.  That's the best way to do it.

 

 

 

 

The fact that Starlight was rewarded with friends instead of being rightfully punished is reprehensible.

 

Punished for what?  Nothing she did actually happened. 

Edited June 27, 2016 by SBaby

[Daring_Do 552]

She's been faking her friendship with the group the whole time as a new revenge tactic against Twilight Sparkle. She knows she couldn't win with the time travel trick, so she surrendered to bide her time for another way of revenge.

I would love that, but the chances of MLP doing this are nil.

[user1342342 143]

The simple reason for this is because a major protagonist turning evil can really only happen once.  If you start doing it too many times, it becomes stale, and the audience will very quickly realize they're being railroaded into a running gag.  And something like this should not be taken lightly.  If they're going to do it, they should do it decisively, but it isn't a good idea to abuse this kind of a plot twist.

 

The same can also be said for a villain that was turned good.  Take Nightmare Moon for instance.  If Luna lost control and turned back into NMM again, the audience would be like 'Well, here we go again'.  Same thing for Starlight Glimmer.  It won't have that shock value to it, and it really wouldn't be that interesting.  So if you're going to have a character turn evil, it should be someone who hasn't yet.  That's the best way to do it.

 

What I meant was, why couldn't she have been punished, and then reformed? It had nothing to do with her turning evil again.

[Nash 0]

Anyway, at this point, I think the notion that Starlight could relapse back to evil is a possibility that probably shouldn't be ignored. She has yet to make a single appearance in which her past as a villain wasn't brought up in some way. For whatever reason, she's not allowed to move forward, which I think is highly troubling since there's really nothing to gain from her past being brought up. The only reason I can think of why it continues to hang over her head is because we actually haven't seen the last of Starlight as a villain.  

 

I feel like Starlight temporarily relapsing back into a villain could be interesting, but the writers already did the whole villain relapsing thing with Discord.

[SBaby 660]

What I meant was, why couldn't she have been punished, and then reformed? It had nothing to do with her turning evil again.

 

The thing is though, nothing she did actually happened outside of what happened in the premiere of S5, which she was already punished for (by being run out of town).  If you punish her for things she did in an alternate timeline then you start going into the whole 'future crime' territory, questioning the morality of whether it's acceptable to punish someone for a crime they haven't committed.  And it also questions just how far they'd allow something like that to go.  For example, if they allow that to happen, what's to stop them from punishing someone who's simply thinking about committing a crime?

 

 

 

I feel like Starlight temporarily relapsing back into a villain could be interesting, but the writers already did the whole villain relapsing thing with Discord.

 

Exactly.  And I distinctly remember a majority of the people who watched that say it wasn't all that interesting and it felt forced (which it did).  I have to imagine the same thing would happen if they had another former villain turn evil again temporarily.

Edited June 28, 2016 by SBaby

[Dark Qiviut 22,588]

I feel like Starlight temporarily relapsing back into a villain could be interesting, but the writers already did the whole villain relapsing thing with Discord.

 

 

Exactly. And I distinctly remember a majority of the people who watched that say it wasn't all that interesting and it felt forced (which it did). I have to imagine the same thing would happen if they had another former villain turn evil again temporarily.

Discord's relapse makes sense. He had a history of not being a team player, not being trustworthy, and playing games just to get under others' skins. In PTS, he didn't reveal to being the one who planted the seeds until the end. In What About Discord?, he got others sick and put both Cadance and Twilight in harm's way. Even though he reformed, he wasn't showing effort. So when he joined Tirek in Twilight's Kingdom, it was the icing on the cake. OTOH, Starlight has the faith of the others, established a close friendship with Spike, puts in the effort to change, and doesn't want to return to her pre-reformed ways. If Starlight reverts into villainy, it comes across as DHX quitting.

[SBaby 660]

He had a history of not being a team player, not being trustworthy, and playing games just to get under others' skins.

 

This part is true, but this is also why he would never bow down to anybody.  He isn't a team player, and he isn't trustworthy.  So why would he ever join Tirek?  He wouldn't.  That in and of itself is what is out of character for him.

 

People like to bring up 'fear' when explaining why he turns on the characters.  Let's take a look at this 'fear' then.

 

Discord has the ability to change the laws of physics on a whim, which he's demonstrated very liberally.  If he wanted to, he could have just snapped his fingers and completely reversed or stripped Tirek's powers away (he's demonstrated this ability before, at great length, against multiple opponents simultaneously; it's pretty much instantaneous when he does it).  That's why this turn feels forced to most people.  Discord could just say, 'Oh, guy who can absorb powers?  Let's make those powers cause him to spontaneously combust.'.  Kaboom.  Story over.

 

More likely, he'd just make Tirek explode and then just take over Equestria for himself, since there'd be no resistance.

 

The only way Tirek would ever get Discord to join him is if his powers of Chaos didn't work on him, which is impossible, since Chaos exists everywhere and is more prominent in evil characters.

 

This is the thing about face/heel turns.  Not only do you have to pick a good time for it to happen and make it happen in an unexpected way, but you have to pick a scenario where there's clearly no other alternative, or a scenario where things are so screwed up that there is no way around it happening.  It has to make sense, or else it doesn't work.

Edited June 30, 2016 by SBaby

[Prince Firemane 309]

Eh, her having been faking it this whole time wouldn't make sense as she does seem to be genuinely trying to learn what she can about friendship. However, I can see her relapsing as she's already been shown to have poor impulse control. She's also been shown to be frustrated with Twilight's methods of teaching friendship and she's being constantly beat over the head with snide comments about what she's done in the past. I wonder if she's gonna have a snapping moment.

 

I think that people are wondering about her reformation and how genuine it is because it doesn't feel genuine. Remember how we all felt about Sunset Shimmer's about-face at the end of Equestria Girls? Yeah, that. The point is that Starlight Glimmer has never had to earn anything. She didn't earn her friends, she didn't earn her power; everything about her was just handed to her by the writers in an attempt to give us yet another foil to Twilight. At least Twilight has been shown earning her friendships with others, at least she's been shown acquiring new skills with her magic, it all feels real because we're able to see her highs and lows. With Starlight, all we see are her highs. She doesn't feel real because, as I said, everything is handed to her by the writers. People are so invested in seeing her punished for her actions because it would be a shred of realism to a character that is so wholly unrealistic. Everyone who as a former antagonist has had to earn their redemption. Luna, Discord, Sunset Shimmer; even Gilda and Trixie. But of course, Starlight gets to sidestep all that mess. I'm so sick of seeing Starlight in the series because ever since The Cutie Re-Mark, we've had this bitch constantly shoved down our throats all to remind us that she exists and she so goddamn powerful and perfect and awesome because she exists.

[user1342342 143]

This part is true, but this is also why he would never bow down to anybody.  He isn't a team player, and he isn't trustworthy.  So why would he ever join Tirek?  He wouldn't.  That in and of itself is what is out of character for him.

 

People like to bring up 'fear' when explaining why he turns on the characters.  Let's take a look at this 'fear' then.

 

Discord has the ability to change the laws of physics on a whim, which he's demonstrated very liberally.  If he wanted to, he could have just snapped his fingers and completely reversed or stripped Tirek's powers away (he's demonstrated this ability before, at great length, against multiple opponents simultaneously; it's pretty much instantaneous when he does it).  That's why this turn feels forced to most people.  Discord could just say, 'Oh, guy who can absorb powers?  Let's make those powers cause him to spontaneously combust.'.  Kaboom.  Story over.

 

More likely, he'd just make Tirek explode and then just take over Equestria for himself, since there'd be no resistance.

 

The only way Tirek would ever get Discord to join him is if his powers of Chaos didn't work on him, which is impossible, since Chaos exists everywhere and is more prominent in evil characters.

 

This is the thing about face/heel turns.  Not only do you have to pick a good time for it to happen and make it happen in an unexpected way, but you have to pick a scenario where there's clearly no other alternative, or a scenario where things are so screwed up that there is no way around it happening.  It has to make sense, or else it doesn't work.

 

Obviously discord isn't the omnipotent god people thought he was, his powers have limits and Tirek proved that by making him his bitch.