spoiler So that one Twilight scene...

[Cirrus. 1,088]

So that scene when Twilight snaps at Pinkie...

 

I keep seeing A LOT of people saying that the scene bugs them. I figured it's worth discussing.

Think about it; Twilight DOES NOT DO WELL with FAILING or F@#&ing things up. Now add on top of that the fact the princesses are stone and it seems more likely by the minute that she's going to be next. Then bye bye Equestria. She also really doesn't know what to do anymore at that point in the movie. As their journey has been going on, friendship seems more and more to be an Equestria only thing. So she's backed into a corner and now it seems like her friends are starting to go against her too... BOOM- Involuntary magic reflex.

 

I found the scene fine- But I actually think they could have gone a little further. There could have been more of a magic buildup. She could have been walking more towards Pinkie (with Pinkie crouching down more) and then when she was just about to "zap" her, Rarity could have stepped in, forming a magic shield or something and then yelling at Twilight. I think it would have taken the scene up a notch. I don't think it would have really "realistically" (aka beyond the TV Y rating) been out of character for Twilight given the circumstances. I also think it would have been an even more powerful scene when Twilight realized what almost happened.

 

Too Dark?

 

So what did you think of the scene? Did they go too far? Did you think it was fine? Should they have handled it differently?

Edited May 31, 2020 by Cirrus.

[heavens-champion 1,893]

Honestly, I expected a scene like this would happen. A lot of animated movies have these kind of scenes.

[Flutt3rTree 28]

I have mixed feelings about that scene personally. I felt that she was acting irrationally and illogically which seems unlike her. But then taking into consideration the situation they were in I can't entirely say it's out of character either.

I was bothered less by that than I was with her attempting to steal the pearl just prior to that. That scene still doesn't sit well with me.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,285]

I understand the amount of stress she had, it was immense, but this scene still doesn't sit well with me. It is far too one sided against Twilight. She had all of that stress, understandably, and yet her own friends were going off on her for her own desperation to save everyone. So it both seemed out of character for her to snap to such a level, but it also seemed like she had a right to do it. 

If they would have made both her AND Pinkie snap, it would have been at least a bit better. As it stands, it was the worst scene in the movie for me. 

[CheeryFox 23,811]

She had to learn something...and she did. It sits well with me. 

[Cirrus. 1,088]

16 hours ago, Flutt3rTree said:

I have mixed feelings about that scene personally. I felt that she was acting irrationally and illogically which seems unlike her. But then taking into consideration the situation they were in I can't entirely say it's out of character either.

I was bothered less by that than I was with her attempting to steal the pearl just prior to that. That scene still doesn't sit well with me.

The pearl thing bothered me too until I thought about it some more. After getting invaded and attacked by foreigners, almost sold by a foreigner, almost tossed overboard by foreign pirates, and being turned down for help by some other foreigners, I think she came to the conclusion that friendship outside Equesteria is rare. Celestia told her to go to see Queen Novo. She did- and it didn't help the situation- NOW WHAT? At that point in the movie she is FAILING! (we know what that does to Twilight by now.) I think at that point she finally just has an "F this" moment and then...

Plan B... Have Pinkie distract everyone away so she steal what the queen has, since that must be what they need for help.

In her state of being stressed to the max, and their experiences on the journey so far, she seemed to be really losing faith in "The power of friendship.™" which I think was what the writers were trying to go for.

She did directly say "WE are not enough." in that scene with Pinkie.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Cirrus.

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

I wouldn't call that an involuntary reflex. What she did was like raising a hand at somebody you're arguing with, as if you were going to hurt them physically. Twilight should never think about doing something like that to her friends. That's just fucked up.

Maybe the writers were trying to sell us on the idea that even the Princess of Friendship could lose sight of her own values. While that in itself does make for an intriguing story concept, it still doesn't change the fact that what she did in this scenario, no matter how stressful, was forced, thoughtless and too unlike her. If the circumstances were extreme enough to make her friends fall back into Discorded-mode, but without the chaos magic or some other power dividing them, I could see her snapping at them being justified. All they did was call her out for doing something she knew was wrong, so she had no right.

This isn't the first time she's been in a seemingly hopeless situation either. Starlight was literally just an inch away from destroying Equestria forever. All it would have took for that to happen was for Twilight to say the wrong thing to her, or freak out and attack her like an idiot. But Twilight's beyond that. She always considers every option before doing something totally drastic. And stealing the orb sure as hell wasn't her only option here. If she really felt like there was no other solution, she could have at least talked it over with her friends instead of using them. Her reasons for doing it made no sense. I mean, shit..... Rainbow Dash got the fucking pirates to regain their pride and cover for them when they needed it. Did Twilight really think her friends were incapable of doing the same with the hippogriffs? That they somehow couldn't sway them into being new friends so they'd want to help them? What did she think would happen by the time Novo saw the orb, and their purple friend, missing? Did she think there wouldn't be repercussions? Like her friends wouldn't have been imprisoned or harmed in any way? That's just downright selfish. And for her to make her friends feel worthless after all that, and visibly THREATEN Pinkie on top of it, is contemptible beyond belief. This moment single handedly shot down my enjoyment of the movie for me. And the fact they apologized in the end wasn't enough to make up for it.

[n1029 224]

On 10/17/2017 at 1:57 AM, heavens-champion said:

Honestly, I expected a scene like this would happen. A lot of animated movies have these kind of scenes.

 

That's the big reason it felt so lame to me. The Mane 6 have argued a lot in the series but they've never given in to mopey histrionics like this. This scene reeked of the writers trying to force a cliche "plot-mandated friendship failure" into the story just to make it seem "heavier" and to compensate for the lack of any other particularly compelling character arcs. 

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by n1029

[blackstarraven 142]

One of the reasons the show is so great is because the Heroes are flawed. This is not surprising, its not really out of character.

Is it harsh? Yes. But really tight situations cause people to be harsh, fans who are stunned at this need to re-watch the first two discord epsidoes.

Twilight does not handle huge amounts of pressure well. And she does not handle failure well.

 

Heck if she actually screws up in this, it by not trusting her friends abilities. (Which I'm still irked about how helpless/incompetent the ponies seam in the first 1half of the movie)

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

My interpretation of this scene, and the events preceding it, is that Klugetown is a den of iniquity and profligacy where everything has a price and everything is for sale.  Twilight is not used to seeing this kind of behaviour and the lack of principles weakened her faith in friendship.  The actual scene in the village was rather too brief to fully convey this, as it would in reality have been a far more gradual process, but the film makers have to keep the story rolling so they didn't really have the luxury of spending too much time on it.

I do feel that the whole 'breaking of the fellowship' scene felt a little abrupt and out of place, not to mention being breakingly out-of-character for Twilight, but by reading between the lines and expanding on it myself I can see what they were aiming for.  They needed to get Twilight on her own away from her friends to not only move the plot in the direction it was headed but also to give Twilight and Tempest a bit of time alone together to bond and plant the seeds of Tempest's change of heart.

The scene may have felt a little bit clumsy, but I'm willing to overlook that as I did really enjoy the film on the whole.

[n1029 224]

On 10/18/2017 at 4:45 AM, blackstarraven said:

One of the reasons the show is so great is because the Heroes are flawed. This is not surprising, its not really out of character.

Is it harsh? Yes. But really tight situations cause people to be harsh, fans who are stunned at this need to re-watch the first two discord epsidoes.

 

Her friends had been engineered to turn on her in that episode. And even then, it was more just losing hope in bringing them back to their normal state than any real contempt flaring up towards them. If the intent of the movie was to have their journey to that point breaking Twilight's faith in friendship, it didn't do a particularly convincing job at it. Nothing they experienced was all that demoralizing compared to any of the adversities they've faced in the series.

Edited October 21, 2017 by n1029

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

19 hours ago, n1029 said:

Her friends had been engineered to turn on her in that episode. And even then, it was more just losing hope in bringing them back to their normal state than any real contempt flaring up towards them. If the intent of the movie was to have their journey to that point breaking Twilight's faith in friendship, it didn't do a particularly convincing job at it. Nothing they experienced was all that demoralizing compared to any of the adversities they've faced in the series.

I can easily see how Twilight got to the point she is when she tries to steal the pearl and then lashes out at her friends. First Canterlot is attacked and completely taken over, all 3 of the Princesses turned to stone, then they're forced to leave Equestria, their home to find help, all the while being chased down by Tempest and the others. In the first place they come across, Pinkie immediately draws attention to them like...well, Pinkie does. Then her friends trust Capper, who ends up trying to sell them into slavery. Pinkie almost dies when she misses the jump to the airship, Rainbow Dash again get's the villains attention with her stupid Sonic Rainboom, and then even when they get to the Hippogriff's, they refuse to help outright.

 That's a lot of horrible stuff to happen in one day, so far mostly her friends, particularly Dash and Pinkie have just caused problems, the few people they tried to trust and get help from either betrayed them or just refused to help, and they have no idea what's happening back at home. Twilight doesn't always take pressure well and she's under a ton of pressure here. I didn't take the scene with her and Pinkie as her "Losing faith in Friendship" though, just...well, friends having a fight. Twi screwed up after all that stress and now everything's worse, she's angry and scared and ends up lashing out. She likely didn't mean anything she said to Pinkie at all, and they all probably would have made up with each other no problem had she not been captured so quickly after.

[n1029 224]

Sorry, I still can't buy her lashing out. Everything that happened still had gotten them to where they wanted to be and she was the one who ultimately screwed everything up. With how disappointingly cliched the scene was I'm not particularly interested in thinking real hard to try to justify it.

Edited October 21, 2017 by n1029

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

2 hours ago, n1029 said:

Sorry, I still can't buy her lashing out. Everything that happened still had gotten them to where they wanted to be and she was the one who ultimately screwed everything up. With how disappointingly cliched the scene was I'm not particularly interested in thinking real hard to try to justify it.

Yeah, got them to where they wanted, and then the people they needed help from said no. She is the one who screwed up in the end, but that probably only fueled her anger even more. She's been trying her hardest all movie, with nothing going right, and then at the most crucial moment it's her who screws it up. That's exactly the kind of thing that might make someone lash out. Didn't take a lot of "Hard thinking" to justify the scene to me, all  of this I just thought up while watching.

[TBD 17,228]

So what? It's not like Twilight is a perfect friend to have jeez.. so you guys who are upset about this,  never yelled at a friend when you are under a lot of stress? I'm sure I have before. It's normal.

The only thing I feel neutral about is the fact she try to steal the pearl. Well that's twilight being honest for ya.  At least she wasn't trying to to be a friend to them then use their kindness in advantage. *applaud. I mean it won't be that easy right? They were already off the hook with capper and the pirate crew.

Edited October 22, 2017 by TBD

[tazmy 23]

I am late joining in on this, but I have thought a lot about this scene and after a  second viewing, I came to the following conclusions:  (I hope this isn’t too long.... sorry)

1)  Twilight and Tempest both suffer from the same issue.  Neither of them feel they are enough as they are.  Twilight has entered a world much darker than her own and she is starting to buy into that darkness.  She isn’t perfect and this happens to us all from time to time.  With Dash alerting their enemies, Pinkie Pie not staying covert, and her friends blindly leading them into a ponyknapper’s lair, she’s not just stressed, she is falling into despair.  She is buying into the lie that she is not enough. (Hence the point of the song “We got this together.”)

I gasped the moment she told her friends to have fun with the mermaids because I knew she was going to try to steal the pearl.  Should she have seen another way?  Yes.  But at this point she doesn’t because she’s forgotten the most important fact:  When she is not enough, her friends will lift her up and together they will be enough.

Should she have known this?  Yes.  However, everypony messes up and forgets this from time to time.  

This is the plot of the movie and why Tempest is such a great foil for her.  Since they both believe they are not enough, they each are making poor decisions.

In this light, this scene isn’t just about the trope being overplayed with friends fighting, it is about Twilight having to reach a breaking point and then realize how her insecurities have led to this.

2) So when her horn sparks when arguing with Pinkie, I think she really has just lost it.  She is angry at herself and her friends and the whole situation.  She hasn’t even really processed what she’s done.  I realize it is up to interpretation whether it was on purpose or  not, but I think it was just a  sign of her losing control.  I don’t think she meant to threaten Pinkie Pie but I think Pinkie felt threatened.  I half expected Rainbow Dash to fly between them and protect Pinkie.  Regardless, it is the moment she needs to face her failings and come out the other end.

Edited October 27, 2017 by tazmy

[Denim&Venöm 16,510]

I'll say the same thing I said in an earlier thread. 

 

To be honest, I don't think it was out of of character for Twi. When you're out of your comfort zone, under a stressful situation, and your friends appear to not be taking things seriously, even abandoning common sense, it would be out of character for Twi not to have lashed out. I'm glad they addressed all her friends shenanigans in the end, instead of glossing them over as 'ponies will be ponies, lol.' 

Heck, even Twi trying to steal the hypogriphs pearl makes sense. Normally she wouldn't break such a cardinal rule, but then again, she normally isn't in hiding, trying to save her civilization from being conquered. Desperation, drives everyone out of character. And that's to be expected. 

[StormBlaze 991]

i dont do well with failing or screwing up, so I know how it feels and how horrible of a person I become x.x 

BUT This scene felt so out of character with Twilight. In fact the whole movie did. Its like she was written a few seasons behind. She's still understanding friendship instead of knowing it all. It's kinda weird and almost like an outdated version of her. 

So there was going to have to be a rift of conflict to make the film carry on, but i just dont like how they did it here. 

 

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,152]

Personally, I thought was a natural path to take. Twilight doesn't deal with failure that well, and considering that...

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 6:34 PM, Cirrus. said:

 After getting invaded and attacked by foreigners, almost sold by a foreigner, almost tossed overboard by foreign pirates, and being turned down for help by some other foreigners

...she was going to snap at some point. Twilight felt the burden of leadership after Canterlot was invaded and ponies enslaved. Her friends weren't doing much to help in her eyes, and it all just piled on in time. After the failure with Novo, it just became too much.

[Jeric 46,835]

Best scene in the movie. 

[takai 1,060]

I think this goes back to the first song of the movie, "We got this together!". In the song, Twilight even says "It all comes down to me".

Twilight was so transfixed on the idea of doing everything herself because she's a princess, that she forgot to rely on her friends in the process. I personally like the scene, but I can understand Twilight's frustration at the time. Her friends continually goofed off and made things worse, eg Rainbow Dash and her Sonic Rainboom. But also because the amount of stress Twilight was under, because Equestria hung in the balance, and if she was captured there would be no chance of saving it. At the time, Twilight made the decision that she thought was best. As everyone said before, she doesn't handle failure well. And the queen was straightforward with her answer.

The more I think about it, the more natural the scene felt leading up to that point.

Edited October 31, 2017 by takai

[Brainstorm 4,092]

In Twilight's defense, the pressure got to her, and said things she didn't mean.

[Tom Gallagher 33,521]

Regardless of anything, it is the single saddest moment in all for MLP for me personally. We've seen Twilight get stressed before (a lot) but the whole situation had become much more serious. The Mane Six were being the Mane Six but for a scenario like that, Twilight didn't want them to be, which is understandable because that is what ultimately got them into trouble. 

The bit that breaks me is when Twilight Sparkle says what she says right in Pinkie's face and you can just see it in Pinkie's eyes. What Twilight just said has sunk in. Add to that, the moment with Twilight and Spike on the rocks is the most genuine crying scene in the series or outside it. It is just a heartbreaking moment. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by TomDaBombMLP
Sinked is not a word.

[TotallyNotNyx 15,563]

Didn't seem too bad to me. Just makes Twilight more human for a change lolllll

Heh she really looks mean in this picture. That's a first for Twilight, and I have to say I like that they made her face have this expression. It really added more meaning to her snapping at Pinkie.

[CameoShadowness 251]

I don't blame her AT ALL for that. Seriously everyone else was treating this as if they didn't see their rulers turned to stone- as if they wren't chased OUT OF EQUESTRIA! She had every reason to pop off on them.