S08:E07 - Horse Play

[Goat-kun 2,527]

2 hours ago, YoshiAngemon said:

What about Celestia & Luna? They need to solve a problem for the Map, as well.

I'm game as long as it has nothing to do with Luna's "tragic" past.

[MalekPony 36]

Am I the only one who thinks that Applejack should've given Twilight an angry earful of a scolding for not listening to her with the way she lied to Celestia in this episode, or am I just letting my angry emotions cloud up my mind?

[Oleks 1,993]

Well, that was an enjoyable lore-enhancing festival of royal silliness. And it is my favorite episode of this season so far.
I especially liked their “black Vikings” and the fact that they didn’t even consider to ask Ocellus to transform into Celestia to save the play.
All in all, it was an amazing episode and another proof that the Royal Sisters need more screen time.

[Ganondox 899]

Loved this episode. Not only was it hilarious, but it made great use of every character. I have to say though, Celestia wasn't the only thing wrong with Twilight's play, the whole thing was kinda stilted. 

[Truffles 2,033]

51 minutes ago, JH24 said:

I can believe Celestia isn't good at acting, but that whole scene when she was practicing and got everything wrong with the actor ponies was just not believable at all. 

This bothered me a bit as well. Like I said in my comments, their are folks who are oblivious to their lack of talent, so that part of it I can understand. But it is true she has shown she can act - she did it in this very episode. And anyone as diplomatic as her would need a basic set of acting skills.

I think they did these scenes for the benefit of Nicole Oliver, just like they did the scenes of Fluttershy in "Fake it..." for Andrea Libman - it let them have some fun with their respective characters and play it up to the max for comedic effect.

It is also possible that Tia is simply terrible at reading lines and she can only act naturally when it's spontaneous.

1 hour ago, JH24 said:

I hated how Spike was basically forced by the others to go on stage and be pelted with tomatoes. Honestly, that was just cowardly. No wonder Spike hangs out with Discord and Big Mac.

That's why I really want to believe he flipped them off before they threw the tomatoes - it's easier for me to stomach that scene if it happened due to him disrespecting the audience rather them doing it just to be cruel to a kid.

At least such things seem to roll off his back like water on a duck, which is why it didn't hurt the episode for me. But that would speak to how much garbage like this he's had to put up with in his life. 

Or maybe it's just a specist thing? Neighsay sure seems to be an indicator there are some problems like that in pony society. Though a lot of those ponies who were booing I recognized and they all should know Spike well. Hm.

24 minutes ago, MalekPony said:

Am I the only one who thinks that Applejack should've given Twilight an angry earful of a scolding for not listening to her with the way she lied to Celestia in this episode, or am I just letting my angry emotions cloud up my mind?

I felt Twilight got enough of a scolding from Tia, and AJ was never insulted when Twilight told her no, so no I don't think she needed more of that from AJ. She'll probably let her know the next time they get a chance to talk, anyway. 

 

23 minutes ago, Oleks said:

I especially liked their “black Vikings” and the fact that they didn’t even consider to ask Ocellus to transform into Celestia to save the play.

Heh, that would have been interesting, though I wonder if Ocellus would have had the shyness issues she had in the premiere? Granted, she's only shy being herself so it might have worked out. Still, I was happy to see Flutters reprise her role as princess and the realization by Tia that she had experience playing the role before.

[Ganondox 899]

4 hours ago, Kyoshi said:

Yes, Twilight made a mistake. You'd think Celestia would be able to forgive a mistake especially when that mistake was made with the best intentions possible. Instead she was written as petty and pouty. Not very appealing in my eyes.

She DID forgive her, it was just after Twilight took the time to explain herself. 

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,288]

5 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

She DID forgive her, it was just after Twilight took the time to explain herself. 

Twilight had to chase her down to do that though. Celestia just flew away after finding it out and it didn't sit right with me.

[Ganondox 899]

1 hour ago, Kyoshi said:

Twilight had to chase her down to do that though. Celestia just flew away after finding it out and it didn't sit right with me.

Well give Celestia some time to be pony and feel things.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Ganondox

[Luminance 2,186]

Starlight in regarding her insult towards calling Twilight "not a real" princess must be pretty risky on the writers behave. Why do that...

[AlbaTross 1,586]

Well, other than the liar revealed plot that plays out as predicted, I think it's an enjoyable enough episode.  I guess we should be glad Starswirl didn't join the production to play himself as he might've been just as bad.  Celestia could have handled the situation better given that she supposedly has over 1111 years of wisdom and maturity, but I'm glad it all worked out in the end though and it's good to have another Celestia episode.

[Tacodidra 61,026]

What an amazing episode! The first few season 8 episodes were good if not always representative of the show at its best, but this one was the best I've seen in a while!

This was one of the more comedic episodes, and I don't actually think there are many episodes that have made me laugh more than this one. Celestia hasn't got too many starring roles in the series so far, and this was definitely one of her more significant roles. We again explored her character more – the later seasons have done a great job in making her character more relatable, showing the pony beneath her princess status. Her prancing at the start of the episode was both cute and funny, and she had several other entertaining moments too. Her attempts at acting were priceless, and we finally got to hear her royal Canterlot voice – while it wasn't as unexpected now as it was with Luna in "Luna Eclipsed", it was still entertaining, as were her other attempts at performing her lines (a moment which reminded me of a certain Fluttershy scene many seasons ago ). Speaking of Fluttershy, it was great to see her Celestia costume again, and this episode again showed her character development over the seasons. As with many other episodes this season, the animation was brilliant with a lot of amazing facial expressions. Also nice to see the whole gang (including both Starlight and Spike) appear in fairly prominent roles, though Twilight and Celestia were the stars here. It was nice to see the students again too, even if their role wasn't very significant.

As for criticisms, I don't have a lot. Maybe the audience (most surprisingly Luna) laughing at the school students and their costumes was a little uncharacteristically mean-spirited. But this is an extremely small complaint (if you can even call it that) in a wonderful episode.

It's impressive to me that this was Kaita Mpambara's writing debut on the show – the episode portrayed the characters in a very believable way, taking into account their core personalities and development. While the series' writer changes have been criticized by some, I think when they get it right, they really shine – bringing some new spirit to the show while staying true to its original style. This episode gets a 9.5/10 from me, though I could consider an even higher rating – the best episode in a while and clearly my favorite so far from the current season.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Tacodidra

[Steve Piranha 29,414]

It came to my attention since the leak that Luna was frowning when Celly rose the sun. Plus, who voiced Raspberry Beret? Her name isn't credited  

[Truffles 2,033]

8 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

It came to my attention since the leak that Luna was frowning when Celly rose the sun. Plus, who voiced Raspberry Beret? Her name isn't credited  

Yes. Check it out:

And Raspberry Beret was voiced by Andrea Libman according to Jim Miller.

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

I’m worried about Molt Down. I’ve been hearing mixed things about it.

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

This one had a little more cringe than the last one. Still a good episode. I mean...honesty can hurt sometimes...but you can't wait to say things too late...and I guess people ignored the instant sonic rainboom...

[Victoria Sponge 1,017]

I say it pretty much every week but I'll say it again, this was the best episode of the season so far! Giving Celestia's less formal and true personality a lot more attention was brilliant, her getting all excited and failing to act, it was brilliant. There were great moments between her and Twilight too, as well as all the other characters and it was good to see the student 6 again, and to see them being lucky enough to meet their princess. Fluttershy was great in this episode too and I'm finally starting to accept her new, more confident personality, especially as we see she still struggles a little, the hyperventilating over having to play Celestia for example. Finally, the humour was on point as ever: Pinkie's huge cannon (Big Bertha), the Trixie firework and Celestia messing with them at the end are some of the funniest moments we've had in a while. And of course, Starlight was in the episode which is a plus in my eyes.

I'd rate this episode 9/10, I can't really see any major flaws but nothing's perfect.

[Abstract 832]

I swear, I don't know what it is about me and having nearly the complete opposite opinion of the majority on most episodes : I think "Fake It 'Til You Make It" is the best episode of the season so far, "Grannies Gone Wild" is the worst, and as for "Horse Play", it was OK, but nothing great.

 

it's nice to see a Celestia episode, but other than the universally adored prancing, nearly every moment of Celestia that people are saying "makes her more relateable" and "gives her more character" was just so cringeworthy to me; it felt completely forced and out of place. I found it strange that Twilight tried to fly after Celestia and was tackled and told not to because she would be seen, only to be told moments later to go after her. :/ And then, the entire reason anyone showed up to the play was because they were told Celestia would be in it - and she didn't even make a cameo. I'd be upset if I was lied to like that, even if the play was great in its own right.

 

The episode had its good moments for sure, but it wasn't consistent - it went back and forth from cringe to comedy, and that just kind of spoiled it for me.

[Twilight Luna 31,334]

On 4/28/2018 at 6:19 PM, Kyoshi said:

Twilight had to chase her down to do that though. Celestia just flew away after finding it out and it didn't sit right with me.

Look at it from Celestia’s point of view. She was told by a good friend of hers that she was a good actress. She had no idea until she overheard Twilight talking behind her back saying how terrible she was. How would you feel if a friend did that to you instead of telling you the truth?

Edited November 14, 2018 by Twilight Luna

[FizzyWind 64]

This episode was the one of the most genuinely funny and cute episodes of this show I’ve seen in a long time. Celestia was so adorable  especially when she sat like a human. Her ignorance concerning how acting works and pinkie’s antics were very funny. I think this is the most enjoyable episode of season 8 so far!

Edited April 29, 2018 by The Whiteraven

[Dark Qiviut 22,378]

55 minutes ago, Abstract said:

nearly every moment of Celestia that people are saying "makes her more relateable" and "gives her more character" was just so cringeworthy to me; it felt completely forced and out of place.

If you're referring to her bad acting and incapability of dissecting impromptu stage acting imagination, acting through formal diplomacy and stage acting are very different. She mastered the art of keeping a façade for the sake of her subjects, but she has no experience when it comes to acting during a play, in particular one by a director who has their own creative visions. When they practiced, her rawness is exposed.

55 minutes ago, Abstract said:

And then, the entire reason anyone showed up to the play was because they were told Celestia would be in it - and she didn't even make a cameo. I'd be upset if I was lied to like that, even if the play was great in its own right.

Can't blame the Mane 8 for that. Twi wanted Celly to be the star in the play and tried to work it out, but it just couldn't happen. Fortunately, Celestia's capable of getting through predicaments; after all, she didn't co-lead Equestria for nothing. She used her quick-thinking, experience, and with to figure out how to fix the play in quick time.

55 minutes ago, Abstract said:

it went back and forth from cringe to comedy

Horse Play has a lot of cringe comedy, but it balances the cringe through restraint and lets the characters' reactions and lines create half the jokes.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

I enjoyed this episode very much, a very simple and fun slice of life episode, portray Celestia in much more relatable ways.

Random:

- Celestia always has her joyful side, being a thousand-year-old didn't take it away from her. Look at her jumping animation! It just so cute! 

- For all this time, Starlight never see Twilight as the true princess? BURN!!! 

- Sonic Rainboom is a normal thing now.

- Twilight finally do something that Starlight did it all the time: tell the princesses that they did it wrong!

- Trixie cause havoc even she isn't there.

- I remember Fluttershy used to act like Celestia in Testing Testing...

- Celestia sit like a human is so weird...

- Celestia bad acting is so cringe... but cute as the same time.

- Luna knows what Celestia is doing. How can she use that godly power for something so mundane? Did she make the night shorter than usual? Luna is not happy.

- Pinkie's obviousness ruined everything...

- Applejack honesty lessons never get old.

- Awwww, Celestia and Twilight sit on clouds... Alicorns are OP as F$#K!

- Celestia got me in the end. Good acting, Celestia, you learned really fast.

- Why these student 6 get no speaking role, come on, Hasbro, YOU'RE BROKE!? 

Celestia episode made my day (she raises the sun, obviously). 8/10

 

[heavens-champion 1,905]

We finally get to hear Celestia speak in the Royal Canterlot Voice.

[Justin_Case001 4,876]

This was good.  Which means I have to write lots of stuff.    One thing about bad episodes--they're really fun and quick to review.  Lol.  I wanted to find a quick, few second clip I could embed to illustrate my reaction to this episode, but I can't find the right thing.  My reaction was just like Rhett's reaction to Skittle Milk.

I loved it.  This is first episode this season that I've been really excited by.  We finally got a Tia spotlight!  A freaking Tia spotlight!!    And it was great!    I've been waiting for a Tia spotlight ever since the show started.  That's been number two on wishlist for years.  (Number one is a Zecora spotlight.  A man can dream...   a man can dream.... )

Anyway, this was spectacular.  Lots to say.  Right off the bat, we've got a big reveal: it's been exactly 1111 years since the Sisters first took over with the sun and moon.  This is a big deal, as we've never gotten specific numbers before.  All we've known is that Luna was gone for 1000.  So, this means that the Sisters didn't rule for all that long before Luna went nuts.  Only about a century.  This feels a bit wrong to me.  It's not a continuity error at all, but it just seems like it should have taken Luna longer than 100 years to go cuckoo for cocoa puffs.  I had always imagined that they co-ruled for several thousand years before Luna snapped, but that was just speculation.  So, only a century, huh?  Oh well.  Just adds credence to my theory that Luna's dark side is more of a problem than anypony realizes, and it takes surprisingly little for her to jump the trolley.  I think her darkness needs more attention, lest it pop up again in another 100 years.  I'm not so sure that A Royal Problem and Magic Sheep sorted everything out.  I think Luna needs something more, perhaps regular counseling in order to understand her dark side and prevent it from resurfacing.  Perhaps Starswirl can provide that, now that he's back.  Maybe his absence contributed to her loneliness and dark decent the first time.  And this also means that the Sisters have been separated for the vast majority of their lives, which is weird to think.

(I just love the lore of the Sisters.  I get really excited about this stuff.)

So, back to the timeline.  I always wanted to know exactly how old the Sisters are.  Unfortunately, we still can't say for sure, but we can make a pretty good guess.  The Journal of the Sisters doesn't give any exact numbers, but it seemed to me to imply that they were pretty young when they were crowed princesses by Starswirl.  Perhaps adolescents.  The only real clue in the journal as to their age is when Tia explains that alicorns age differently, and thus it's normal for them to be blank flanks at a later age.  She said that it never felt strange to her before, but then after being crowned a princess, it began to feel awkward being surrounded by much younger ponies who already their cutie marks.  But how much younger?  We really don't know.  But the Sisters had to have been pretty young, since we know that they weren't fully grown at the time of Starswirl's disappearance, and, according to Tia, weren't old enough to fully understand the consequences of the Pony of Shadows and all that stuff.  So I'm betting they were teenagers at the time that they began raising the sun and moon.  They took over the job of the sun and moon shortly after being crowned princesses, so I'm going to say they were about 16 when they raised the sun and moon for the first time.  Add 1111 to that, and today the Sisters would be 1127 years old.  However, there's so much uncertainty, here.  Tia says alicorns age differently, so it's normal for them to be blank flanks much later.  (We're assuming natural born alicorns here, which we're still assuming they are, as they were born before Equestria was founded.)  So, if alicorns age so differently, then perhaps their physical growth and mental maturity takes a hundred times longer than normal ponies.  With no exact numbers, they could have already been hundreds of years old when they met Starswirl.  We just don't know.  But I think ~1130 years old is a fair guess for their current age.  Then again, we don't know how seriously we can take these passages from the Journal, since they completely contradicted it with the ToH origin reveal in Shadow Play.  That was a good move as well, in my opinion.  The journal's explanation of the tree was much flimsier.  They just found it, and it already had the cutie marks on it.  What sense does that make?  But since Starswirl and the Pillars seeded it, then we can theorize all kinds of magic that was put into it, including indirect influences from the Sisters.  It's a way better explanation.  So, the Journal may be a little shaky.  I've always taken it as B-canon, and official canon unless otherwise stated on the show.  (I'd love for them to put out an official, big, fold-out book timeline of every major event in the FIM universe from the birth of the Sister until now.)

Which leads me to my next point: According to the Journal, the sun and moon were handled by a council of unicorns headed by Starswirl until they exhausted their magic and the Sisters took over.  (The Sisters later helped them regenerate their magic.)  So, Horse Play solidified this as canon, much to my delight.  Some people have theorized that the sun and moon raising is a unique power than only the Sisters can do--something completely unique to them.  I have always argued that it's simply a feat of massive telekinesis that any sufficiently powerful magic user could do.  My theory seems to have been proven correct, as it was previously done by a team of unicorns.  (Apologies for tooting my own horn. :/)  And sorry for tooting my own horn again, but this episode seems to have proven another of my long standing arguments, which is that princess and alicorn are not the same thing.  Alicorn is a species, and princess is an appointed rank/position of responsibility.  I always thought that this was obvious and didn't need any more proving, but some people still say that they're one and the same.  Celestia disproved this when she said that she was going to relinquish her crown and step down in order to pursue theater.  Even thought it was a joke, I think it's still sufficient proof.  She could step down and stop being a princess if she wanted to. 

Incidentally, I always thought that the term "princess" was a poor choice, and was only used as a marketing gimmick due to the connotations and prestige attached to the word.  They should have called them "guardians", or something similar.  Their jobs (day, night, love, friendship) have never implied royalty at all, but rather guardianship, stewardship, teaching, and guidance.  The only literal, royal princess on the show was Platinum, the daughter of a king.

Okay.  I'm nuts for the Sisters stuff.  Sorry.  On to the rest of the episode.  Tia was surprisingly adorable prancing and getting excited.  (I wish adults could stuff like that irl and not look awkward and creepy.  Well....some can, I guess.  Let me rephrase: I wish I could do that and not look creepy and awkward...)  It was a mind blower to hear Tia use the Royal Canterlot Voice.  We always just assumed she could, but we've never heard it.  Until now!     ...That said....Luna's is better. 

I loved the characterization here.  I think they did a great job of creating a conflict and showing some shortcomings without forgetting everything that they've learned.  I thought that Twilight had a believable reason for not wanting to tell Tia the truth, and I really liked that AJ kept pointing out what a bad idea that was.  And I especially loved that Tia pointed out what AJ had said.  I liked Twilight's resolution speech, as well.  In episodes like this, in which somepony is obviously going about things the wrong way and we all know it, there's always a predictable resolution speech where they finally get it all out in the open, which is fine when it's well done, and this time it was.  Twi's little speech was genuine, and the scene between them in the clouds was touching, and felt like an important moment to underline and solidify the importance of their relationship throughout the series.  I give it two hooves up.  I also love how we finally got to see some real emotion from Tia.  I like that she felt genuinely hurt.  That sounds kinda terrible when I put it that way, but what I mean is that she's always just been proper and composed all the time, as is her role.  Luna has struggled greatly, but we haven't seen that kind of genuine emotion from Tia until now.  We got to see that she's just a real pony, like anypony else, and Twilight's friendship matters a lot to her.  That was great.

I love that Tia chose Fluttershy to play her.  It was a nice moment where we got to see Fluttershy's fears cropping up again, while also seeing her remember what she's learned and overcome them.

Random rainboom was cool.  I love how Pinkie bought back-alley fireworks from Trixie.  Also, I really loved how Pinkie remembered all 327 times that AJ asked her not to mess with her sets.  Now THAT'S the Pinkie I know and love.  That's season ONE Pinkie, right there.  That's eccentrically brilliant Pinkie.  I was wondering if we'd ever see her again.  I'm glad she's back.  I love her.

There was good humor and great lines throughout.  The whole thing felt well paced, and everypony had just the right amount of screentime.  The one and only thing I didn't like was the fact that the audience were jackasses.  Pointing and laughing a bunch of kids in a play?!  Throwing tomatoes at Spike?!  The f*ck, man?  Seriously?!  Who does that?!  What kind of sick f*cks go to see a play and throw tomatoes and heckle some poor kids who are trying their damnedest??  If somebody did that in real life, it would be shocking and unacceptable.  More than that--it would probably be terrifying.  Imagine if you were at a play, and somebody started yelling and throwing tomatoes.  You'd probably start running for emergency exit.  I would.  You just don't do those kinds of things in public.  Luna should have yelled at them in the Royal Voice and kicked 'em out.  They need security at these things.  This isn't the first time the general public have been a**holes.  Remember Fame and Misfortune?  I'd rather not.  Equestria is supposed to be this nice, wonderful place, but whenever the plot calls for it, the crowd just turns into a seething, pitchfork and torch waving monster.  What is with these townsponies?

All the real characters were great, though.  Great episode.  Satisfying Tia spotlight.  And there were just so many wonderful moments!  Tia's adorable little hoof wave, Twi's brilliant facial expressions, the way she said "Do I wanna know?"  That Tara!  What a genius!  Stuff like this is the reason I watch Pony.  The best part by far was Starlight's line: "Well, yer not a 'princess' princess."  Omg.    I was cracking up.  I was absolutely rolling.  It's so true!  That's why it's so funny!    I mean, there's Princesses, and then there's Twilight.  Sure, she's a "princess", but, I mean, pffft, c'mon, right?  LOL!!!  Best line in the series.  Best line in the whole series.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Justin_Case001

[JH24 385]

 

Quote

That's why I really want to believe he flipped them off before they threw the tomatoes - it's easier for me to stomach that scene if it happened due to him disrespecting the audience rather them doing it just to be cruel to a kid.

At least such things seem to roll off his back like water on a duck, which is why it didn't hurt the episode for me. But that would speak to how much garbage like this he's had to put up with in his life. 

Or maybe it's just a specist thing? Neighsay sure seems to be an indicator there are some problems like that in pony society. Though a lot of those ponies who were booing I recognized and they all should know Spike well. Hm.

I like your interpretation about Spike disrespecting the audience because he has enough of it. Yeah, I can totally see him throwing some sarcastic comments or gestures towards the audience.

True, I liked how Spike just "goes along with it," still bothers me though the others just used Spike like that. And of course they waited until Twilight was gone. I also noticed how the audience was pretty mean toward something that was more like a children's play.

Edited April 29, 2018 by JH24

[CypherHoof 26,482]

6 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

Right off the bat, we've got a big reveal: it's been exactly 1111 years since the Sisters first took over with the sun and moon.  This is a big deal, as we've never gotten specific numbers before.  All we've known is that Luna was gone for 1000.  So, this means that the Sisters didn't rule for all that long before Luna went nuts.  Only about a century.  This feels a bit wrong to me.  It's not a continuity error at all, but it just seems like it should have taken Luna longer than 100 years to go cuckoo for cocoa puffs.  I had always imagined that they co-ruled for several thousand years before Luna snapped, but that was just speculation. 

well, that timeframe wouldn't work anyhow. We now have a narrower timeframe, but we know that starswirl himself was gone "over a thousand years" - that's a pretty vague number, but only within a few hundreds of years, not thousands. Further, we can assume that Celestia took up her duties before Starswirl left, and that the Tree had time to grow and produce the Elements, so that Celestia and Luna together could use them against Discord, and Celestia could use them to banish Luna for a thousand years. Oddly, it was said it was the thousandth year of the summer sun celebration (which you would think would start when Celestia started raising the sun, not when she banished luna, but....

 

 

6 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

 

So, only a century, huh?  Oh well.  Just adds credence to my theory that Luna's dark side is more of a problem than anypony realizes, and it takes surprisingly little for her to jump the trolley.  I think her darkness needs more attention, lest it pop up again in another 100 years.  I'm not so sure that A Royal Problem and Magic Sheep sorted everything out. 

I would assume Luna agrees - hence the issue in Magic Sheep, and her growing discontent as seen in Royal Problem. That said, she now has the love, respect and admiration of a number of ponies, not least the CMC, so may have much more emotional support now than she had then.