S08:E15 - The Hearth's Warming Club

[Truffles 2,033]

On 8/4/2018 at 12:04 AM, gingerninja666 said:

this means that the last Feast of Fire would’ve happened in front of EMBER. Meaning she had to listen to someone tell that story. Which is hilarious to me. Or maybe SHE was the one who told it.

If she is the one who told the story, then she's getting quite adept at politics very quickly by getting out in front of the issue of any dragons contemplating a coup d'etat. 

 

Bigger review + replies coming later, but my main takeaway from this episode is related to something I saw on EQD:

Dragons: We're so badass, we kick our kids out as soon as they hit puberty!

Griffons: Hold my beer.

 

So let me get this straight: It's not just that Gallus is an orphan, but the ENTIRE griffon society are all orphans? My reason for thinking this is his confusion over what familial relationships are. If it was just him, I would think he'd know just by talking to other griffons. So for him to not know, then all the griffons in Griffonstone must not have families and just kind of hang together when it's advantageous profit-wise.

Dude, that's like some serious Logan's Run dystopian-level stuff there. So should we assume females lay their eggs and leave them to hatch on their own? Then there must be some members of the community who begrudgingly care for the infants until they're old enough to get food on their own and work for bits? I shudder to think about their infant mortality rates with that system. Seems like the map needs to do some more work and do an all-hooves-and-claws-on deck emergency map mission to expedite a fix for that, because it seems from Gallus' story the work Rainbow and Pinkie did isn't changing things if they're all still miserable and fighting with one another.

At some point in the future, I imagine Gabby could be the key - if she were to become a mother I'd have to believe she'd be the most likely to break that cycle of griffons being so unsympathetic and bit-hungry.

[Sonic5421 423]

Our first Hearth's Warming episode with the Student Six, and I gotta admit, I did like how the students celebrated their own individual holidays in their own unique ways. I think I liked Silverstream's the most due to how we did get a cameo appearance in Flash animation of the Storm King, along with a cameo from Queen Novo.

As for Gallus and his reasons for sabotaging the decorations, I don't blame him for feeling lonely if he went home to Griffonstone for the holidays and wanted to stay in Ponyville instead at the School of Friendship. Seeing him confess to keep his friends from arguing with each other about missing their holidays if they are kept at the school over winter break was pretty noble of him, and seeing his classmates agree to stay with him was very heartwarming.

Great episode, and I'll give it a 9, possibly a 9.5/10 for my score.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

6 hours ago, KatonRyu said:

I would've liked it much more if it had actually been another student, who had then come forward out of guilt at seeing the student six get into a fight over it, and prompting Twilight and Dash to apologize for their wrongful accusations. But hey, to each their own.

I'm in agreement with @Cwanky from here on this particular point, particularly this paragraph:

Quote

I actually am very glad this episode didn’t make Cozy Glow or Chrysalis the villain. Doing so would have detracted much from the meaning and relations the Young 6 share.

Up to this point, the Student Six's friendship was closely knit; THWC is the first time we see it tested, and it was tested really badly. Gallus admitting to vandalizing the room, apologizing for it, and his friends choosing to stick up for him and stay at the school with him while he's at his lowest moment tells us how close they all are and remain so despite facing severe adversity. To have another student come forward instead of Gallus would undercut the premise, the stress they endured, and make the resolution feel really hollow.

And with that, I'll drop the subject.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[Thrond 3,257]

7 hours ago, Truffles said:

I would think he'd know just by talking to other griffons.

I don't think this is a thing that happens much. 

[ImpctR 155]

Y AKA 'Worst Day of Pageantry' ? Whatever the different versions of episode names.

 

The episode was for me one of the two best Heart Warming Eve episodes, the other one being when they went to Pinkie's family and it was a fun combo with the apples and pinkies, considering not much happens in this kind.

At first there was a hooded pony who did a mess, that's what I thought it was and perhaps a villain of the future episodes/finale.

The story that I liked the most was Smolder's but it saddens why the lord didn't just go to get his staff back?

Yona's story was OK, if it isn't about smashing what else. Made me chuckle.

The second best is officially showing the Storm King! If they'd showed even more details of the story it may have become my most fave. I still don't get what was wrong with the whole movie plot fit in there as some criticize it.

Gallus story can be touching but that made him the coolest gryphon of all there. The Gilda and other (forgot names besides Granpa Gruff) appearance.

 

I still think Gallus lied about him doing it and it was to have friends to stay with him. OK maybe it was him but a villain of the future episodes/finale.would have been a better plot like some other past seasons before the finale. Nothing more to say, 5/5 for its type of episode.

Edited August 5, 2018 by ImpctR

[YoshiAngemon 223]

6 hours ago, Truffles said:

If she is the one who told the story, then she's getting quite adept at politics very quickly by getting out in front of the issue of any dragons contemplating a coup d'etat. 

 

Bigger review + replies coming later, but my main takeaway from this episode is related to something I saw on EQD:

Dragons: We're so badass, we kick our kids out as soon as they hit puberty!

Griffons: Hold my beer.

 

So let me get this straight: It's not just that Gallus is an orphan, but the ENTIRE griffon society are all orphans? My reason for thinking this is his confusion over what familial relationships are. If it was just him, I would think he'd know just by talking to other griffons. So for him to not know, then all the griffons in Griffonstone must not have families and just kind of hang together when it's advantageous profit-wise.

Dude, that's like some serious Logan's Run dystopian-level stuff there. So should we assume females lay their eggs and leave them to hatch on their own? Then there must be some members of the community who begrudgingly care for the infants until they're old enough to get food on their own and work for bits? I shudder to think about their infant mortality rates with that system. Seems like the map needs to do some more work and do an all-hooves-and-claws-on deck emergency map mission to expedite a fix for that, because it seems from Gallus' story the work Rainbow and Pinkie did isn't changing things if they're all still miserable and fighting with one another.

At some point in the future, I imagine Gabby could be the key - if she were to become a mother I'd have to believe she'd be the most likely to break that cycle of griffons being so unsympathetic and bit-hungry.

What about Gustave le Grand? He's a successful boulanger in the art of making eclairs. He's probably a selfish griffon when it comes to his money.

Okay, bad example. The Mane Six need to all visit Griffonstone, just to make sure they're importing the Magic of Friendship, or at least forsake them and let any refused Griffons move OUT of Griffonstone and into Ponyville!

Edited August 5, 2018 by YoshiAngemon

[Music Chart Fan 818]

6 hours ago, Truffles said:

So let me get this straight: It's not just that Gallus is an orphan, but the ENTIRE griffon society are all orphans? My reason for thinking this is his confusion over what familial relationships are. If it was just him, I would think he'd know just by talking to other griffons. So for him to not know, then all the griffons in Griffonstone must not have families and just kind of hang together when it's advantageous profit-wise.

When Gallus is describing the Blue Moon Festival, he says that "Families get together...", which might suggest that griffon society has at least some concept of "family", unless that's just Gallus's attempt to describe it to everyone else using a term that they would understand. But yeah, I'm not sure how to explain Gallus's apparently not knowing what cousins are. And I don't know how much to read into Gallus's statement that Grampa Gruff is "not anygriff's actual grandpa". Do griffons not recognize anyone other than immediate family as "family"? Or is it possible that Gallus has been a homeless orphan basically his whole life, and therefore had no parents, siblings, etc. to teach him what cousins are, and he also hadn't interacted enough with anyone else to have learned that either? It's an interesting question of how much Gallus's situation reflects griffon society in general.

[TransitPony 219]

Great episode here. It was so cool to learn about each of the Student's cultures and customs, a well mannered use of character development. Gallus not having a family and pulling the prank so he can stay behind for a while could mean he was an orphan* as a child and (in a psychological and mental sense) witnessing Griffonstone as a failed state growing up. The arguing at the climax of the episode is something that's all too common in today's society whenever something bad happens and no one wants to claim responsibility. 

*Question: Did Gallus have a guardian or did he live alone? 

[gingerninja666 487]

1 minute ago, Music Chart Fan said:

When Gallus is describing the Blue Moon Festival, he says that "Families get together...", which might suggest that griffon society has at least some concept of "family", unless that's just Gallus's attempt to describe it to everyone else using a term that they would understand. But yeah, I'm not sure how to explain Gallus's apparently not knowing what cousins are. And I don't know how much to read into Gallus's statement that Grampa Gruff is "not anygriff's actual grandpa". Do griffons not recognize anyone other than immediate family as "family"? Or is it possible that Gallus has been a homeless orphan basically his whole life, and therefore had no parents, siblings, etc. to teach him what cousins are, and he also hadn't interacted enough with anyone else to have learned that either? It's an interesting question of how much Gallus's situation reflects griffon society in general.

It also makes me wonder, did Gilda notice Gallus and how alone he was, and she was the one who picked him to go to Twilight's school when Celestia sent out invitations? Because it seems like the Student 6 aside from Sandbar were chosen to come by someone above them. Ember literally dragged Smolder in for instance.

[JCKane 345]

Another surprise of an episode (last one was because I wasn't expecting the season to start back up so soon.) This time it was because we got a 'winter holiday' episode in August.  To be honest, I really felt this was placed in a bad place.  Maybe the movie messed up the timing?  Then again I don't even know when the other 2 hearts warming episodes aired.  So this may be the norm.

As for the episode itself.  It was 'ok'.  I mean it wasn't bad or anything but honestly, But the typical 'Everyone in the group tells a story' type of episodes I'm usually 'meh' about anyways.  Truth be told, I didn't know who was going to be the one who did it.  In fact I was almost expecting it to have been none of them.  And, why'd they do 2 at once at the end?  I mean just because the episode was almost over?

Another thing this episode gets a 'meh' out of me is honestly, we've not really had as much experience with the 'class 6' (or whatever they go by) so I'm not as 'into' these characters.  Granted, I prefer it that way as I'd still rather them stick with the Mane 6 + Starlight.  (with some Discord thrown in )

PS: not that I think every episode there in is 'meh' just it was a combination of things I just am 'meh' about :/ 

[Truffles 2,033]

5 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I don't think this is a thing that happens much. 

It may be they don't talk often, but they must talk enough to get through day-to-day activities. How would the children learn language if they hardly ever spoke? Granted, I'm doing complete speculation here based on what would be the most extreme interpretation of what Gallus said is the state-of-affairs back in Griffonstone, but there hasn't been any proof in the show that the griffons have any concept what a "real" family is. (Though I really need to go back to Gabby's episode and see if there's any details that might shed light on this since she's the most likely one to be aware of social norms regarding family.)

 

5 hours ago, YoshiAngemon said:

What about Gustave le Grand? He's a successful boulanger in the art of making eclairs.

Clearly he decided at some point Griffonstone was a dead end and decided to make a life for himself in pony society where there was lots of opportunity for him to put his skills to use. The same could be said about the Griffonstone team at the Equestria Games. We've never seen them in their hometown; it would be a fitting explanation (and irony) if the team actually didn't live or train in their own hometown.

 

4 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

But yeah, I'm not sure how to explain Gallus's apparently not knowing what cousins are. And I don't know how much to read into Gallus's statement that Grampa Gruff is "not anygriff's actual grandpa".

I took that statement literally (and maybe that's a fault in my argument) - he's not anyone's biological grandpa - or if he is, he doesn't actually know who his children are. I can't think of any other reason Gallus would say that. It seems fitting he would get that "honorary" title from the town because he's the old, cantankerous griffon with the "lame" (as Gilda might describe them) stories from when the griffons had some pride. He's also the town elder, and asserts a fatherly authority due to the other griffons having some minute amount of respect for him.

4 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Do griffons not recognize anyone other than immediate family as "family"? Or is it possible that Gallus has been a homeless orphan basically his whole life, and therefore had no parents, siblings, etc. to teach him what cousins are, and he also hadn't interacted enough with anyone else to have learned that either?

I can't rule that out, so my whole hypothesis could be incorrect if the above is true. I guess until we see actual griffon families - with a biological mother, father, and kids, we just don't know. The show staff has already stated that despite celebrating together in the flashback, neither Gilda nor Gabby are siblings; and neither is Gallus with either of them. They all just chose to "celebrate" their holiday together even if they're not a family of relatives, but instead a family of acquaintances. And it sounds like it didn't go very well last year if his main fear was having to go home to a celebration where the "family" members just sit around and fight for the whole day. (Which, if Gabby was also arguing, would be something we didn't know about her personality.)

 

4 hours ago, TransitPony said:

*Question: Did Gallus have a guardian or did he live alone?

Grandpa Gruff is is official guardian according to show staff, so he doesn't live alone. But he's not really his grandpa in any sense of the word.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Truffles

[Senko 459]

This episode gave me a really weird vibe considering I've spent the last few day's reading Rainbow Dash/Twilight Sparkle shipping fics and Rainbow's the friend who stay's behind with her and Spike when he's talking about spending time with family. I'm sure she was just there due to drawing the short straw of which teacher would help Twilight get the boarding students to the train on time still there's a part of me that can't help but see them as a couple right now especially with moments like these.

On 8/5/2018 at 7:03 AM, AlexanderThrond said:

If we take Princess Cadance's backstory from that one book as canon, the show's orphan count is now at 5, counting the Apples separately.

If you count the Apple's seperately do you mean they make up 3 orphans with Cadence as 4 and ? as 5?

Some nice lines and commedy in this one like Silver Stream trying to imiate Yona and smash the bucket only to fail at even damaging it or Ocelus's rendition of the changeling attempt to adopt Hearthswarming Eve. I also rather liked Smoulder asking if Sandbar's story had a tragic ending only to be told by Yona that Pony stories don't work that way.

Of course this is countered by the sadder elements like Gallus being alone and Smoulders story about the former Dragon Lord. The interesting thing about that being if true rather than just a tale it could be why there's now a specific time when the scepter is passed on to the next dragon lord so upstart little orphan's can't just steal it when you're distracted.

Be nice to see a different holiday its not like we don't have them Nightmare Night, Chucklelot, Summer Sun Festival, Summer Parade, Running of the Leaves, Winter Wrap up. On another note this 3 in a row does kind of tie in to what I've come to suspect that we are looking at a 1 season = 1 year in Equestria time frame meaning its now 8 years since Twilight came to Ponyville still I'm only up to season 7 and have quite a few comics before I finalize my work there.

Ah well now to try and find the next episode.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Senko

[Thrond 3,257]

7 hours ago, Senko said:

If you count the Apple's seperately do you mean they make up 3 orphans with Cadence as 4 and ? as 5?

 

Gallus as 5. 

[sci-fi-pony 41]

20 hours ago, Truffles said:

So let me get this straight: It's not just that Gallus is an orphan, but the ENTIRE griffon society are all orphans? My reason for thinking this is his confusion over what familial relationships are. If it was just him, I would think he'd know just by talking to other griffons. So for him to not know, then all the griffons in Griffonstone must not have families and just kind of hang together when it's advantageous profit-wise.

I don't think that's the most logical conclusion to jump to. It seems more likely that griffon culture simply doesn't have a solid concept of extended family. Gallus didn't seem to have any trouble understanding what a cousin was after Ocellus explained it, so it might be that griffons just don't use terms or titles for more distant family. 

To use a real-life example of different cultures understanding family differently:
I have never met any of my cousins and barely know my grandparents, uncles, aunts, etc. When I was little, I didn't even understand that they were actually related because they rarely visited and there was always a feeling of "guests for a week" rather than actual family whenever they were around. So, for me, family was parents and siblings and that was it. Then I married a guy who grew up in a very rural community where a random neighbor down the street is still considered family and everybody hugs everybody else all the time because they're all "one big happy family". It was a very foreign concept to me, to say the least, and one I'll never get used to. 

So, it's easy for different people to have different definitions of "family" depending on how they were raised and how their particular regions/countries/cultures interpret familial relations.

[MangoFoalix 24,898]

I have updated the episode link in the OP. Hopefully this saves some of you the trouble of finding the episode yourself.

[MangoFoalix 24,898]

Now, on how I think of this episode. I enjoyed it quite a bit. Even if the episode premiered in August it still brings a good lesson. To tell the truth even if it may hurt people in the short-term it will bring you their trust in the long-term.

Good moral, I like!

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

39 minutes ago, TheTaZe said:

Now, on how I think of this episode. I enjoyed it quite a bit. Even if the episode premiered in August it still brings a good lesson. To tell the truth even if it may hurt people in the short-term it will bring you their trust in the long-term.

Good moral, I like!

That's one moral. The other ones are to help friends less fortunate than themselves and stick with them when they feel vulnerable. Each really great morals that fit the episode's context.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[Truffles 2,033]

11 hours ago, sci-fi-pony said:

I don't think that's the most logical conclusion to jump to. It seems more likely that griffon culture simply doesn't have a solid concept of extended family. Gallus didn't seem to have any trouble understanding what a cousin was after Ocellus explained it, so it might be that griffons just don't use terms or titles for more distant family.

By itself, Gallus' confusion may have been the reaction of his that started me wondering, but the scene of him spying on Grandpa Gruff with Gilda, Gabby, and the unnamed griffon child do add to the evidence that griffons don't seem to know who their actual primary family members are:

It doesn't make any sense for Gilda and Gabby to be hanging out with Grandpa Gruff if he's "not any griff's actual grandpa." They would be celebrating with their own families. Furthmore, it doesn't even look like any of them want to be together - and for that to be the case with Gabby is really saying something.

Now it is possible Gallus just happened to be peering though the window the one year these two characters were celebrating with Grandpa Gruff as an act of kindness because he's a lonely old man - so this scene is by no means definitive. But after reading several comments on YouTube, a lot of viewers came away with the same impression I did: Because of the way griffon society works, children are considered a burden so they get pawned off on any griffon who is willing to take them in and raise them. Thus many young griffons end up getting raised by strangers who become their defacto family who don't really like each other.

Another possibility is griffons do get raised by their parents, but in this case Gilda, Gabby, and Gallus are all orphans and Grandpa Gruff is this one griffon who is willing to take in the orphans. But even learning that tidbit about Gilda and Gabby would be pretty newsworthy as well. It doesn't, however, square with Jim Miller in a Q&A session the other day stating neither Gilda, Gabby, nor Gallus are related to one another. So that just takes me back to my original notion that all these griffons spend this one day together, even if they are only known to each other as acquaintances.

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Truffles

[Senko 459]

5 hours ago, Truffles said:

By itself, Gallus' confusion may have been the reaction of his that started me wondering, but the scene of him spying on Grandpa Gruff with Gilda, Gabby, and the unnamed griffon child do add to the evidence that griffons don't seem to know who their actual primary family members are:

It doesn't make any sense for Gilda and Gabby to be hanging out with Grandpa Gruff if he's "not any griff's actual grandpa." They would be celebrating with their own families. Furthmore, it doesn't even look like any of them want to be together - and for that to be the case with Gabby is really saying something.

Now it is possible Gallus just happened to be peering though the window the one year these two characters were celebrating with Grandpa Gruff as an act of kindness because he's a lonely old man - so this scene is by no means definitive. But after reading several comments on YouTube, a lot of viewers came away with the same impression I did: Because of the way griffon society works, children are considered a burden so they get pawned off on any griffon who is willing to take them in and raise them. Thus many young griffons end up getting raised by strangers who become their defacto family who don't really like each other.

Another possibility is griffons do get raised by their parents, but in this case Gilda, Gabby, and Gallus are all orphans and Grandpa Gruff is this one griffon who is willing to take in the orphans. But even learning that tidbit about Gilda and Gabby would be pretty newsworthy as well. It doesn't, however, square with Jim Miller in a Q&A session the other day stating neither Gilda, Gabby, nor Gallus are related to one another. So that just takes me back to my original notion that all these griffons spend this one day together, even if they are only known to each other as acquaintances.

 

Alternatively he isn't their grandfather he's their father named grandfather and wont be a grandfather till one of them actually has kids of their own hence the grumpy expressions as he's just told the two girls they better get started on grandkids soon as he's not getting any younger.

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,809]

Dang...who knew that Gallus was so hurt by being alone at Hearth's Warming. No wonder why he has that cynical and sarcastic nature, because he doesn't have a family to be with to show him the love and kindness that is needed through Hearth's Warming. Great episode. 

[Buttonmash1973 1,024]

On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:20 AM, Senko said:

Be nice to see a different holiday its not like we don't have them Nightmare Night, Chucklelot, Summer Sun Festival, Summer Parade, Running of the Leaves, Winter Wrap up.

I hope for more different holidays too.

[Cash In 21,516]

This was actually good.

To be honest, I thought that the culprit was gonna be a minor villain. I'm happy with the way that the episode went. The student 6 talking about their hearth's warming traditions was actually my favourite part!

Also yes, I'd hug Gallus.

[Purple Pharaoh 23]

Is bad story telling the reason Sandbar needs to be at the friendship school? 

[Justin_Case001 4,857]

Not bad.  Pretty basic.  Not much to say.  I like the student 6, but I don't want the show to revolve around them too much.

I felt sorry for Gallus, but I constantly notice how on TV, as well as in real life, so many problems would be solved, or never be a problem in the first place, if people were just honest.  What do you think would have been the reaction if, in the very beginning of the episode, Gallus had given the same basic speech that he did at the end?  Y'know, minus the prank confession.  Like, if he had told his story, told the others how lucky they were to have families, and told them how he wished he could just stay at school with them, how do you think they would have reacted?  They probably would have all offered to stay at the school with him and celebrate Hearth's Warming in Ponyville, and the Mane 6 probably would have invited him to celebrate with them as well.  That, or each of the student 6 would have offered to take Gallus to their homes and spend the holiday with their families.  The end result would have been exactly the same, minus the fear, headache, and upset of the prank, the interrogations, and the cleanup.  (Yeah, I know, I know, then the episode would have been two minutes long.  I get it.)

The ponies like to pretend that each of the elements of harmony are created equal, but one clearly stands above the rest.  Honesty is the bedrock foundation from which all relationships are built and maintained.  Healthy relationships cannot exist without it.  The other elements (or if we're talking real life here, let's just say positive character traits) can be worked on, achieved, improved, or will helplessly be pulled along for the ride if everyone is simply honest.  Sometimes people will feel angry, or act selfishly, or be unkind to their friends and family.  It's not the end of the world.  These things can be forgiven, so long as trust remains.  Honesty is paramount above all else.  Congratulations, Applejack: you win.

[Dethde 20]

I'm extremely glad to finally see a great episode after the past.... Questionable episodes.

This episode is great at capturing the character's emotions and makes it easy to sympathize for gallus.

Rating: 8/10 (Mostly because the previous ones were just.... Ugh.)