S08:E25+26 - School Raze

[Dethde 20]

  On 2018-08-30 at 7:45 PM, RulesofRarity said:

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1. Starlight's backstory is a contravince for the audience to feel sympathy for her and justify her actions. We are given no explaination as to why Starlight couldn't write letters to Sunburst after he left or just go to Canterlot to visit him, it's not like he died. Even worse than that her backstory relies on everyone around her being completely oblivious to this filly's sadness, are we supposed to believe that no one(including Starlight's overbearing father) didn't notice her sadness and didn't try to help her? And if she lost a friend due to a cutie mark, why couldn't' she just make friends with someone who already has their's, that's what she ultimately ends up doing anyway.

2. They were defensive for like 2 seconds, it took an entire season before the rest of the Mane 6 began to trust Discord even with Fluttershy fighting in his corner. Instead of rewarding her with a position of privilege, they should've sent her back to the village to earn back the trust of the ponies she screwed over but instead of them mistrusting her and not buying her turnaround(like how the Canterlot High Students didn't buy Sunset's turnaround despite the fact she was claiming to be a better person) they forgave her as part of a montage.

 

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Now i do agree that her backstory didn't make much sense and was used to make us sympathetic for her, but what Dark Qvivut said was pretty logical, though i feel that you were both right on some points in the second part, the remane 5 definitely should have been more cautious of starlight, as with discord, however as Dark Qvivut stated, extreme punishment and exiling would have worsened the problem, and for a show based on kids, wouldn't make much sense. 

What should have been done in my opinion, was to give her slight punishment, Public Services? Or to at least show the Mane 6 slowly warming up to her instead of instantly forgiving her. 

 

[Dethde 20]

  On 2018-08-30 at 8:17 AM, ShootingStar159 said:

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I see quite a few people throw around the idea that Starlight is some kind of psychopath or sociopath, but Cozy Glow is so much closer to that kind of condition it’s not even funny. She doesn’t care about anyone else, and that’s why she wasn’t reformed.

 

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I don't think being a psycho or a sociopath is funny at all in the first place, if celestia is willing to throw everypony with those mental conditions in hell we should have seen hundreds more tortured souls.

We can't say that cozy's unwilling to change forever due to a 3 minute confrontation, instead of trying to change her for the better, Throw her in hell for eternal loneliness, you can't make her mental condition better by locking her in a small cell in Tartarus.

 

[RulesofRarity 493]

  On 2018-08-30 at 9:47 PM, twichlove said:

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Now i do agree that her backstory didn't make much sense and was used to make us sympathetic for her, but what Dark Qvivut said was pretty logical, though i feel that you were both right on some points in the second part, the remane 5 definitely should have been more cautious of starlight, as with discord, however as Dark Qvivut stated, extreme punishment and exiling would have worsened the problem, and for a show based on kids, wouldn't make much sense. 

What should have been done in my opinion, was to give her slight punishment, Public Services? Or to at least show the Mane 6 slowly warming up to her instead of instantly forgiving her. 

 

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Yes, I agree. I really didn’t like them forgiving her that fast. 

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by RulesofRarity

[Dethde 20]

  On 2018-08-30 at 4:31 PM, The Nth Doctor said:

Can we just celebrate that

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THE ROYAL GUARD WAS FINALLY USEFUL AFTER EIGHT YEARS

That alone makes this episode worth it

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I suppose that Flash Magnus really has trained the guards well.

 

[CastletonSnob 3,079]

I'm being completely sincere when I say I think Cozy Glow might have a mental illness. 

[RulesofRarity 493]

  On 2018-08-30 at 10:19 PM, VG_Addict said:

I'm being completely sincere when I say I think Cozy Glow might have a mental illness. 

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I doubt it. Friendship probably failed her in some way in the past or something. 

 

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

  On 2018-08-30 at 9:52 PM, twichlove said:

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I don't think being a psycho or a sociopath is funny at all in the first place, if celestia is willing to throw everypony with those mental conditions in hell we should have seen hundreds more tortured souls.

We can't say that cozy's unwilling to change forever due to a 3 minute confrontation, instead of trying to change her for the better, Throw her in hell for eternal loneliness, you can't make her mental condition better by locking her in a small cell in Tartarus.

 

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I didn’t actually say she deserved to be thrown in Tartarus, I only said that the fact she sat through all those Friendship classes and all the experiences with the CMC’s, her teachers and her classmates points to a form of sociopathy or psychopathy, one that far more obvious than anything Starlight exhibited. I made zero judgements on whether or not she deserved that extreme a punishment, and I certainly never said it was funny.

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by ShootingStar159

[Dethde 20]

  On 2018-08-30 at 10:35 PM, ShootingStar159 said:

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I didn’t actually say she deserved to be thrown in Tartarus, I only said that the fact she sat through all those Friendship classes and all the experiences with the CMC’s, her teachers and her classmates points to a form of sociopathy or psychopathy, one that far more obvious than anything Starlight exhibited. I made zero judgements on whether or not she deserved that extreme a punishment, and I certainly never said it was funny.

 

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Ah, i understood you wrong then, but.

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I was still making a point about you saying that "That's why she was reformed".

 

[FlareGun45 2,221]

  On 2018-08-30 at 9:38 PM, twichlove said:

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Starlight had no teaching, cozy glow has a messed up head, there's a difference between a stern talk and day to day lessons, starlight wasn't convinced until she was pulled out of her messed up vision, i'm not saying that cozy glow should leave without punishment, my point is that cozy glow didn't deserve eternal suffering in Tartarus, just because you've put a child through an entire semester of honesty classes doesn't mean that they'd get entirely what the teacher is attempting to teach, especially with what Cozy Glow's mentality has been shown to be. It's not entirely certain that Cozy Glow would get the message from first time teachers with how messed up her vision is. Another thing i'd like to point out is that cozy had little to no backstory, there would be much more people sympathizing for her if say, her parents passed away.

In conclusion, i agree that you have a point, her constant stream of lies means that she either completely ignored the lessons, or twisted them in a horrifying way.

 

 

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Actually, maybe there's a reason why we don't know her backstory YET. Maybe she never met her parents and has abandonment issues. She gets friends and she's afraid they'll always abandon her, so she just uses them to gain power, that way EVERYONE will be her friend! Wow... I can relate to this girl!

[Steve Piranha 29,448]

  On 2018-08-30 at 10:02 PM, twichlove said:

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I suppose that Flash Magnus really has trained the guards well.

 

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And since the Royal Legion didn’t give a shit about gender, I suppose he proposed mares to join the Royal Guard, as this is the first time we see in-show canon Royal Guard mares

Also, did you notice that....

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When magic returned to their owners, a magic orb landed on Pinks ? 

 

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

  On 2018-08-30 at 10:37 PM, twichlove said:

Ah, i understood you wrong then, but.

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I was still making a point about you saying that "That's why she was reformed".

 

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Let’s be real, the reason Cozy Glow wasn’t reformed is because the writers want to use her again as a villain in the future. And I’m sure the reason they locked her in Tartarus is because they have already planned out the stories for season nine and have her there for plot reasons.

 

[Dethde 20]

  On 2018-08-30 at 10:56 PM, ShootingStar159 said:

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Let’s be real, the reason Cozy Glow wasn’t reformed is because the writers want to use her again as a villain in the future. And I’m sure the reason they locked her in Tartarus is because they have already planned out the stories for season nine and have her there for plot reasons.

 

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True, but throwing a filly into tartarus? It just feels unnecessary

 

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

  On 2018-08-30 at 11:08 PM, twichlove said:

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True, but throwing a filly into tartarus? It just feels unnecessary

 

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If this was the end to her story, I’d agree, but it clearly isn’t, so I’ll withhold judgement until I see more.

 

[Dethde 20]

  On 2018-08-30 at 11:22 PM, ShootingStar159 said:

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If this was the end to her story, I’d agree, but it clearly isn’t, so I’ll withhold judgement until I see more.

 

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Perfectly understandable, i just think even though it's an obvious attempt at saving a villain for later it's pretty disgusting to throw a filly into tartarus and then make suttle jokes about it.

 

 

[RDDash 19,211]

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I don't know if anyone caught that but Twilight and the co literally trapped themselves in the tomb, in three days time not only Equestria would have run out of magic as well as they would have died long and painful deaths.They would have probably needed Princess Luna's help to rescue them at the last possible second.

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by R.D.Dash

[ggg-2 3,553]

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If this was the real world, Cozy Glow's fate would lead to a major lawsuit.

 

[Senko 459]

Ok my views . . ..

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1) There's something weird going on with the magic here Tirek stole Pegasus and Earth Pony magic but cosy's scheme only seems to affect unicorn magic which is odd.

2) Poor CMC's just a throwaway joke. Same with Starlight being caught off camera and no Discord sigh.

3) With regard to Cozy's fate this comes back to what I've said before about age of responsability. As we've seen with the CMC's there does seem to be a bit of "if you have your cutie mark you're old enough to take responsability for things". The CMC's are being called in by adults to help with their foals cutie marks for example. So Cutie may be getting judged as an adult not a child in pony eyes.

4) Related to the above lot of people are saying its bad throwing a filly in prison for life but there's a few things we don't know. One is she there for life, for a period of time (it does seem to be the only pony jail) or just being held in a safe place until her trial. Ponies might be putting more emphasis on true remorse in judging someone than any legal methods and Cozy has shown she feels none as demonstrated at the end. Starlight and the others were saved by the flying members of their class but the magic just vanished for all we know dozens of ponies could have been injured or even killed by her scheme. They use a lot of magic in their construction work as just one dangerous field where a sudden failure could easily kill someone.

5) Tartarus was a bit of a dissapointment as aside from Tirek and the bugbear its pretty much all animals. Animals we've seen are capable of living free (everfree forest) or even being domesticated (the manticore bowing next to Trixie in her show). They could have at least had shadowy figures off in the distance. Also what is going on with letting young ponies be pen pals with one of the worst villains Equestria has seen?

6) Those school ponies have a LOT of apologizing to do, I see many remedial lessons in their future. Also everyone now know's about the sub basement with the friendship tree in it. We also know why his teleporting looked different it wasn't his magic doing it but an artifact.

7) Nice that Neighsay's apology came about as a result of being directly shown ponies can be evil and teaching other races about friendship can have long term benefits.

8) The student 6 trying to graduate as they saved Equestria puzzled me as well where was Spike getting those graduation scrolls from as Celestia was standing right there.

9) Interesting new filly with that rainbow hair at the start.

10 Cozy really wormed her way into Twilight's graces weird she had a student as an assitant.

 

  On 2018-08-30 at 10:53 PM, Steve Piranha said:

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And since the Royal Legion didn’t give a shit about gender, I suppose he proposed mares to join the Royal Guard, as this is the first time we see in-show canon Royal Guard mares

Also, did you notice that....

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When magic returned to their owners, a magic orb landed on Pinks ? 

 

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Yep I noticed that as well curious though it makes sense for her. Then again there were a lot of balls just floating around in random places which was strange as well.

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Another difference is Starlight's big revenge scheme was preventing Twilight and the others from being friends nothing more, when she found out how big a change that made she backed down. At which point only she, Twilight and Spike even know about it and Twilight says she's not a bad pony.

 

Cozy on the other hand tried to steal magic from all Equestria, committed treason and tried to set herself up as Queen. When she was stopped her response was "I will have my revenge and everyone knew it was her Including Celestia and Luna.

 

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Senko

[ggg-2 3,553]

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So, wait. From what i can tell, most of Tirek's screentime is basically slapstick at his expense. ......I'm actually extremely okay with this. After what he caused in season 4, him being reduced to a chew toy is perfect karma.

 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Ok, done watching S8 finale and read some delicious comments about...

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How Cozy Glow deserve the harshest punishment of the entire Equestria and she is just a kid.

This is definitely the most crazy thing happens in the entire series lifetime. We never see a pony is being imprisoned in Tartarus ever. Why is this happening now? Did every attempts to fix her failed? Do they think this horrible punishment will fix that child? Or they don't think about fixing her at all, just throw her to a cage with bunch of scary monsters and they just happy with it... Where are her parents? Who are responsible for this child's mental illness? If this child was born from a demon's womb to release the hell upon the world then I am happy to see that child burn in hell but … this... this is a problem child... A pony . I don't know, maybe I need some time to think about it.

This finale has problems and it is just one of them.

 

 

[Clever Hoof 18]

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Am I the only one who wondered how sun could rise when magic was gone? Celestia wasn't using magic later but sun rised like nothing happened. Also why pegasi could fly? When Tirek drained their magic they couldn't.  How Starswirl knew that they have three days? If somehow Celestia could manage to raise sun why she have done this? I mean no sun rising = no day = everything's fine 'cause there will be no 3rd day. Huh? What do you mean by "time does not work this way"? Why did Ocellus didn't use any form of her magic? Was it drained too? It was drained only in Equestria?

Where was Discord? Where he was?! Was his magic drained too and he get stucked somewhere?

About Cozy Glow. How did you know? Some of you seemed to know it but how? I admit I was fooled. She was mastermind. Cunning, dangerous, not-a-unicorn. TBH I think it would suit her better if she was an earth pony. And I think I understand why she was sent away to Tartarus. If adult would have done things she did, they would be send to Tartarus without questions. But a child? Well, she clearly understands consequences of her actions and she acts like that on purpouse. It was all carefully planned. Usually innocence protects children and often they aren't even aware of the results of their action. This is way we treat them differently. And she knew. She's a child just in body. 

They could have done different things you may say. But what? Talk to her? She was too mad to do it right then. What, gave her extra friendship lessons? Crimes cry for just punishment. It's not like she's going to spend whole eternity then. She can be redeemed someday. 

 

Walking guards... They have pegasi. They could fly there why they didn't? They want all Eguestria to be doomed, right?

 

[Dethde 20]

  On 2018-09-01 at 1:05 AM, Senko said:

Ok my views . . ..

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

1) There's something weird going on with the magic here Tirek stole Pegasus and Earth Pony magic but cosy's scheme only seems to affect unicorn magic which is odd.

2) Poor CMC's just a throwaway joke. Same with Starlight being caught off camera and no Discord sigh.

3) With regard to Cozy's fate this comes back to what I've said before about age of responsability. As we've seen with the CMC's there does seem to be a bit of "if you have your cutie mark you're old enough to take responsability for things". The CMC's are being called in by adults to help with their foals cutie marks for example. So Cutie may be getting judged as an adult not a child in pony eyes.

4) Related to the above lot of people are saying its bad throwing a filly in prison for life but there's a few things we don't know. One is she there for life, for a period of time (it does seem to be the only pony jail) or just being held in a safe place until her trial. Ponies might be putting more emphasis on true remorse in judging someone than any legal methods and Cozy has shown she feels none as demonstrated at the end. Starlight and the others were saved by the flying members of their class but the magic just vanished for all we know dozens of ponies could have been injured or even killed by her scheme. They use a lot of magic in their construction work as just one dangerous field where a sudden failure could easily kill someone.

5) Tartarus was a bit of a dissapointment as aside from Tirek and the bugbear its pretty much all animals. Animals we've seen are capable of living free (everfree forest) or even being domesticated (the manticore bowing next to Trixie in her show). They could have at least had shadowy figures off in the distance. Also what is going on with letting young ponies be pen pals with one of the worst villains Equestria has seen?

6) Those school ponies have a LOT of apologizing to do, I see many remedial lessons in their future. Also everyone now know's about the sub basement with the friendship tree in it. We also know why his teleporting looked different it wasn't his magic doing it but an artifact.

7) Nice that Neighsay's apology came about as a result of being directly shown ponies can be evil and teaching other races about friendship can have long term benefits.

8) The student 6 trying to graduate as they saved Equestria puzzled me as well where was Spike getting those graduation scrolls from as Celestia was standing right there.

9) Interesting new filly with that rainbow hair at the start.

10 Cozy really wormed her way into Twilight's graces weird she had a student as an assitant.

 

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Yep I noticed that as well curious though it makes sense for her. Then again there were a lot of balls just floating around in random places which was strange as well.

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Another difference is Starlight's big revenge scheme was preventing Twilight and the others from being friends nothing more, when she found out how big a change that made she backed down. At which point only she, Twilight and Spike even know about it and Twilight says she's not a bad pony.

 

Cozy on the other hand tried to steal magic from all Equestria, committed treason and tried to set herself up as Queen. When she was stopped her response was "I will have my revenge and everyone knew it was her Including Celestia and Luna.

 

 

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You're making starlight's crime sound way too light.

She would have destroyed all of equestria had her plan succeeded.

 

[Dethde 20]

  On 2018-09-01 at 9:06 PM, Clever Hoof said:

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Am I the only one who wondered how sun could rise when magic was gone? Celestia wasn't using magic later but sun rised like nothing happened. Also why pegasi could fly? When Tirek drained their magic they couldn't.  How Starswirl knew that they have three days? If somehow Celestia could manage to raise sun why she have done this? I mean no sun rising = no day = everything's fine 'cause there will be no 3rd day. Huh? What do you mean by "time does not work this way"? Why did Ocellus didn't use any form of her magic? Was it drained too? It was drained only in Equestria?

Where was Discord? Where he was?! Was his magic drained too and he get stucked somewhere?

About Cozy Glow. How did you know? Some of you seemed to know it but how? I admit I was fooled. She was mastermind. Cunning, dangerous, not-a-unicorn. TBH I think it would suit her better if she was an earth pony. And I think I understand why she was sent away to Tartarus. If adult would have done things she did, they would be send to Tartarus without questions. But a child? Well, she clearly understands consequences of her actions and she acts like that on purpouse. It was all carefully planned. Usually innocence protects children and often they aren't even aware of the results of their action. This is way we treat them differently. And she knew. She's a child just in body. 

They could have done different things you may say. But what? Talk to her? She was too mad to do it right then. What, gave her extra friendship lessons? Crimes cry for just punishment. It's not like she's going to spend whole eternity then. She can be redeemed someday. 

 

Walking guards... They have pegasi. They could fly there why they didn't? They want all Eguestria to be doomed, right?

 

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A child can calm down after a while, sending a child who's possibly mentally handicapped into hell is much too far, kids aren't always just oblivious to their actions, they also don't care about the consequences, only after they've received them do they realise, they've done something horrible.

Is there no better punishment than banishing her to hell? She doesn't even have magic to defend herself say something goes wrong.

Didn't starlight also have the benefit of the doubt? She was assumed to not understand the consequences of her action, and was let free immediately.

 

[Clever Hoof 18]

  On 2018-09-01 at 9:21 PM, twichlove said:

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A child can calm down after a while, sending a child who's possibly mentally handicapped into hell is much too far, kids aren't always just oblivious to their actions, they also don't care about the consequences, only after they've received them do they realise, they've done something horrible.

Is there no better punishment than banishing her to hell? She doesn't even have magic to defend herself say something goes wrong.

Didn't starlight also have the benefit of the doubt? She was assumed to not understand the consequences of her action, and was let free immediately.

 

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Starlight was sorry for her actions. Cozy wasn't. That's huge difference. And Tartarus isn't really a hell. Just magical prison. And she will calm a little bit there.

And why should she protect herself? Cage protects her from Cerberus. If she was an unicorn her magic would have to be silenced or something. She could escape otherwise.

Somepony grew faster than the others. I always thought that while age when someone is considered mature is useful in the eyes of law it's stupid in any other. Some will became adults at that age, some will sooner, some will later. What it have do with Cozy? Well, you said child do not care for consequences. Yet she knew that suggesting RM7 Tirek will result in their trip to Tartarus. One may say Tirek influenced her in many ways but she wrote to him. Even before she was in allegiance with other villains. And still smart enough to not being caught for such a long time. She clearly sees consequences. Hence her cutie mark. And her age? Let's see... how old could CMC be? 14 now? Less? More? She's in similar age. One's look may be pretty deceiving. And looking young works in her advantage. 

Really, she's genius. Using crowd to do dirty job. She knew what she need to say, when she need to do it.

 

[Dethde 20]

  On 2018-09-01 at 9:53 PM, Clever Hoof said:

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Starlight was sorry for her actions. Cozy wasn't. That's huge difference. And Tartarus isn't really a hell. Just magical prison. And she will calm a little bit there.

And why should she protect herself? Cage protects her from Cerberus. If she was an unicorn her magic would have to be silenced or something. She could escape otherwise.

Somepony grew faster than the others. I always thought that while age when someone is considered mature is useful in the eyes of law it's stupid in any other. Some will became adults at that age, some will sooner, some will later. What it have do with Cozy? Well, you said child do not care for consequences. Yet she knew that suggesting RM7 Tirek will result in their trip to Tartarus. One may say Tirek influenced her in many ways but she wrote to him. Even before she was in allegiance with other villains. And still smart enough to not being caught for such a long time. She clearly sees consequences. Hence her cutie mark. And her age? Let's see... how old could CMC be? 14 now? Less? More? She's in similar age. One's look may be pretty deceiving. And looking young works in her advantage. 

Really, she's genius. Using crowd to do dirty job. She knew what she need to say, when she need to do it.

 

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Starlight was sorry for her actions after being reformed, Cozy never got an option to get reformed, Tartarus is still pretty much hell, for the pony world, a place where you're trapped alone in a cage, along with Demons.

Tirek escaped anyhow, we don't know if it confines only teleportation magic or all magic, what if say the bugbear escapes again? how would she defend herself? 

Intellect =/= maturity, there's a difference between a full grown well matured adult and one of those kids on youtube. I think you misunderstood what i meant by a child not caring about consequences, a child may know about consequences, but not care about them, you ever see one of those kids who attempt to stand on walls and then fall down head first? Cozy Glow plays others as fools, sure, you can say she's a manipulative genius, but again, Intellect =/= Maturity. We don't even know for sure the CMC's and Mane Seven' age, Granny Smith looks 40 years older than celestia, just because Cozy is a genius doesn't mean she deserves suffering in Tatarus.

She's a filly that can play innocent and manipulate people, doesn't understand friendship, and is possibly a sociopath, SEND EM TO TARTARUS.

 

 

[chronos911 22]

Lol sorry the writing in this show is getting a bit on the absurd side...

 

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Locking up a filly in demonic pony hell is the last thing you'd expect from the princesses.  

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Also Cozy Glow as a villain was just kind of weak and her motivations made no sense.