spoiler S09:E16 - A Trivial Pursuit

[Goat-kun 2,527]

2 hours ago, StitchandMLPlover said:

 

I re watched the episode on TV today before the new episode to see if I missed anything in my previous analysis. From the very first scene Spike can tell Twilight is already at an usual level of “Twilighting” and her behavior is WAY different from the other 2 times she played “Trivia Trot” and multiple times he tries to bring her back down to earth and talk her out of it, by reminding her she is Princess of Friendship and to focus more on how she herself is playing. Sunburst even tells Twilight she’s “out of the zone” compared to previous games. On a rewatch I did notice Twilight said “This game is special, I’m hoping to win” to Pinkie Pie so she did try to get across to Pinkie that it was important to her but I think Twilight should have said “I need to win” more directly to Pinkie since it seems like Twilight just smiled and told Pinkie not to worry every time she(Pinkie) started to notice Twi having trouble, and we know Pinkie does not read subtle body language well. Twilight also rarely let Pinkie Pie even answer so Twilight kinda sabotaged herself in the end either way. Just my 2 cents again.   

So Twilight was tilting, she wanted to win, and she and Pinkie are not good friends. Tell me something I don't know

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

5 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Hmm... that line actually says a lot. It's possible that she WAS playing just for fun this whole time and she only got all unhinged when she realized she had a chance to break a record. Maybe Pinkie wasn't so much in the wrong here after all.

My thoughts exactly. I hadn't noticed that line when I watched it last week and I really wish I had. Thanks! 

 

4 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

So Twilight was tilting, she wanted to win, and she and Pinkie are not good friends. Tell me something I don't know

 

Or they are both great friends and DO care about each other but the writers did NOT make that clear in "Trivial".  Pinkie and Twilight acted completely different and more like themselves in the new episode that aired today IMHO. 

[Goat-kun 2,527]

11 minutes ago, StitchandMLPlover said:

My thoughts exactly. I hadn't noticed that line when I watched it last week and I really wish I had. Thanks! 

 

Or they are both great friends and DO care about each other but the writers did NOT make that clear in "Trivial".  Pinkie and Twilight acted completely different and more like themselves in the new episode that aired today IMHO. 

If one that tries to prove that cites an episode to disprove the previous one, then how can one decide which episode is canon? The white knights are wrong as per usual. There is no progression. There is only a sinus function. We have witnessed all of this before. Will you join me in forsaking canon? Well, judging from the speculations above, you've all already done that. Just make sure you don't become delusional like some Luna fans.

 

Still, Mane 6 are not friends. They are friendly coworkers. To be a friend does not mean the same as being a good human. A bond needs to be personal, beneficial, and it needs to exist exclusively between two individuals. What can you offer me that resemble such a bond?

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

If one that tries to prove that cites an episode to disprove the previous one, then how can one decide which episode is canon? The white knights are wrong as per usual. There is no progression. There is only a sinus function. We have witnessed all of this before. Will you join me in forsaking canon? Well, judging from the speculations above, you've all already done that. Just make sure you don't become delusional like some Luna fans.

 

 

 

Still, Mane 6 are not friends. They are friendly coworkers. To be a friend does not mean the same as being a good human. A bond needs to be personal, beneficial, and it needs to exist exclusively between two individuals. What can you offer me that resemble such a bond?

 

I consider all official Hasbro released episodes, all of EG and the MLP 2017 movie canon regardless of how much I hate a particular episode. "Trivial" is canon! I'm not one of those weirdos who calls unlikable episodes non canon. I can't stand when fandoms write off parts of a show as non canon because they don't like an episode or spin off. I'm allowed to criticize writing however.  

[MalekPony 36]

With Twilight Sparkle being obsessed over winning in this episode, I really do feel her pain that she may have lost. As you see, I admit that I am also obsessed with winning at games and when I lose, I feel really disappointed.

 

On the other hand, I think I may need to start thinking about how much I had fun playing a game rather than obsessing over whether or not I won or lost.

[CinnamonSwirl 90]

Eh, this makes me realize even more that IMO I think Twilight is a fake friend. and isn't the good friend everyone thinks she is.

On 8/17/2019 at 12:09 PM, Sparklefan1234 said:

This was a weird episode, IMO. 

This episode proves to me that Twilight Sparkle doesn't respect/like Pinkie Pie as much as a "true, true friend" should. 

Same here.  Ever since I watched the first episode and went on, what I gathered, is that Twilight doesn't care for her friends.  She's always worried about pleasing Celestia, or making herself the center of attention.  Another reason why I can't stand Twilight.

[Senko 459]

Hmmmm  . . .

1) Twilight owns a DJpon3 nightshirt is she a fan of her music?

2) I suppose its a good thing these recent episodes haven't only been exagerating Dash''s bad qualities they did the same thing here with Twilight and Pinkie.

3) Considering Triviatrot is apparently a weekly event I'm surprised winning 3 weeks in a row was such a big deal to Twilight.

4) Those contestants seem rather random as I don't see Sunburst travelling all the way from the Crystal empire once a week to compete much less the others.

5) Cranky was not well presented as someone to live with.

6) I like Applejack hiding and Blushing at Granny's scolding there.

7) Even losing her cool Twilight seemed to be acting rather off there with trying to get other ponies disqualified on technicalities.

8) Speaking of which those rules are bizzare and I have to wonder how they got introduced in a number of cases.

9) I approve of the continuity nod with Daring Do's hat having 20 arrow holes.

10) Considering how easy scoring seemed to be I wonder what traumatized Starlight?

11) How do you even get considred a winner at a game when the teams are randomly assigned each week, I mean you could just be lucky and contribute nothing to your partners wins?

12) We again see ponies using their cutie marks as ID rather than their names which is interesting considering how intwined with who they are those marks are.

All in all I think I'm not a fan of this episode.

[Truffles 2,033]

So yeah, I'm so busy it takes a holiday weekend for me to finally have some time to comment on this episode, lol.

So I said I was interested in people's reaction to this episode after seeing the negative reaction to episode 15. And indeed, reading everyone's comments was actually just as interesting as watching the episode itself. Thanks to all the over-the-top humor, a number of folks enjoyed this episode more than they did that 15. It also didn't help that 15 had a deadly combination of a character acting like a jerk during the same section of the episode being uninteresting. (At least for me.)

My takeaway then is it's OK to regress a character as long as there's enough humor to make the regression worthwhile. And 16 is a lot funnier than 15, so it was enjoyable for me as well. And those who didn't find Twilight's antics funny didn't seem to like the episode.

It will be interesting to see, then, how fans react the next time a character is forced to regress for the sake of humor.

 

On 8/17/2019 at 1:01 PM, Goat-kun said:

If you were my friend and busted into my game of Dota without any interest to actually learn the game, you'd be learning some Russian words instead, if you catch my drift.

Choice Russian words. lol.

Originally, I was going to try to connect this episode's theme to community sports like little league, and specifically to situations where parents become so obsessive over their kids winning that they try to get the less-skilled kids kicked off the team. But your analogy to on-line gaming is actually much more appropriate!

I agree that Pinkie needed to stop being Pinkie for a few hours and just learn the game, especially if she wants to show respect for her friend. But Trivia Trot is more like random assignment in online team games, and there one should never expect every player who is assigned to a team to understand how to be an expert at that game. So Twilight should have been a little more tolerant of her friend since she was new, and it was just Twilight's rotten luck on her 3rd attempt in a row at a win that she got stuck with a pony who only takes things seriously in extreme situations.

It's interesting to note that most team games LET you kick players who are causing more harm than good, or are just being annoying via a voting mechanism. But with these 2-member teams such an arrangement wouldn't work out very well since Trivia Trot has that rule that single-member teams aren't allowed to compete.

 

On 8/22/2019 at 12:03 AM, Music Chart Fan said:

But I think Pinkie could have observed that many other players are taking this game more seriously than she is - particularly Twilight, who told Pinkie that winning this game is very important to her.

On 8/22/2019 at 12:03 AM, Music Chart Fan said:

We also see that Pinkie can't even concentrate on the topic of apples for more than 2 seconds, and is distracted from ringing in by a normal body function. So what are we supposed to take away from that? Is Pinkie just not even trying to concentrate? Is she actually incapable of concentrating on a topic for more than 2 seconds?

Both of these comments hearken back to "Too Many Pinkie Pies," where she had to prove that her friendship to Twilight (and others) was important, and more to the point, that she could settle down and take things seriously for a long period of time. Why she couldn't do that here is a bit of a mystery, though it may have just been an oversight on the writer to not have Twilight, in an effort to reign Pinkie in, remind her of that event and how she was able to focus back then.

Then again, the point of Trivia Trot is to have fun, and the point of watching paint dry.... isn't. XD

So then there's this:

On 8/22/2019 at 12:03 AM, Music Chart Fan said:

But the solution that this episode seems to come up with is that Twilight should just give up on her hope and dream of achieving 3 wins in a row, stop taking the game seriously, and conform herself to the way that Pinkie wants to play the game. And that's reinforced by Spike's telling Twilight that this is "just a game"

Perhaps the episode would showcase the message better if it wasn't about Twilight just needing to relax and have fun and instead showcase a message about everyone needing to have fun? In this situation, Twilight was clearly not letting Pinkie have any fun by forcing her to sit there in silence. Furthermore, I would argue Twilight's win streak was just as much a function of luck as it was her skill, even though her skill (and shipping planning chart, lol) did play an important role. In a game where any random citizen can enter, she probably shouldn't expect the same group of ponies to enter every time. Especially since it seems if someone like Sunburst would travel across Equestria to enter, then the whole continent is a potential player pool.

On 8/22/2019 at 12:03 AM, Music Chart Fan said:

Perhaps a point could be made that it's a fool's errand for Twilight (or anyone else) to strive to achieve or maintain records in a game where her teammate is randomly assigned, and could be a total novice who doesn't take the game as seriously as she does. But I would argue that there are potential solutions other than deciding that nobody should take Trivia Trot seriously. I could imagine, for example, having separate competitive and casual games of Trivia Trot, with the competitive games perhaps having stricter rules or standards about who can play or how teams are chosen, while people like Pinkie could just choose to play casual games.

Oh, and look you already said this later, lol. But actually, that's the perfect solution - have a pro session where the players have to have won a minimum number of times so each player knows they're getting a teammate who can play at a decent level. Going back to the online gaming analogy, it's no fun when the matchup server picks a Masters League player to play against you when you're way down in Bronze League, lol. And thinking along that vein, Trivia Trot could do exclusions the opposite way and not allow players who have won a maximum number of games to enter thus giving newbies a chance to have more fun, too.

[Allen 1,387]

This episode is more like Family Feud to me. Twilight Sparkle got what she got to keep this winning streak going in trivial questions with Granny Smith at Trivial Trot. You know what? I will say this episode is good at 80 to 90 percent. 

[doomie-22 19]

On 8/17/2019 at 1:42 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

Cozy Glow is to blame for this. She intentionally failed her test and framed the CMCs to Twilight when she confronted her over it. Twilight takes the care of her students seriously.

Yes, as headmare, Twilight should take the care of her students seriously, but not at the expense of three little fillies who did nothing wrong. She doesn't even bother to get their side of the story first before she goes accuaing them of setting up Cozy Glow and making her fail on purpose as a revenge scheme to get back at her for not letting them attend her school.

[Dark Qiviut 22,382]

@doomie-22 Cozy Glow was tutored by the CMCs for a full week and told Twilight that the answers she wrote in the test were the same answers the CMCs gave her throughout the week of studying. There was nothing to suspect on Twilight's end that Cozy (who had previous trouble in school) lied; the test she gave her and the explanations why were all the evidence she needed, while the CMCs had nothing to prove beyond their own claims. Twilight was justified to ban them.

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

On 8/31/2019 at 11:00 PM, Truffles said:

Both of these comments hearken back to "Too Many Pinkie Pies," where she had to prove that her friendship to Twilight (and others) was important, and more to the point, that she could settle down and take things seriously for a long period of time. Why she couldn't do that here is a bit of a mystery, though it may have just been an oversight on the writer to not have Twilight, in an effort to reign Pinkie in, remind her of that event and how she was able to focus back then.

If it's that bad though, she'd probably have figured out this game wasn't her cup of tea.

And on that note...

On 8/31/2019 at 11:00 PM, Truffles said:

Perhaps the episode would showcase the message better if it wasn't about Twilight just needing to relax and have fun and instead showcase a message about everyone needing to have fun? In this situation, Twilight was clearly not letting Pinkie have any fun by forcing her to sit there in silence. Furthermore, I would argue Twilight's win streak was just as much a function of luck as it was her skill, even though her skill (and shipping planning chart, lol) did play an important role. In a game where any random citizen can enter, she probably shouldn't expect the same group of ponies to enter every time. Especially since it seems if someone like Sunburst would travel across Equestria to enter, then the whole continent is a potential player pool.

That... actually would have worked much better. Something I never mentioned about this episode before is that it somehow felt like game night at a retirement home... but is being treated by those involved like it's the Olympic Games. The latter is meant to be ultra-competitive. The former exists as a way of bringing a community together for a nice distraction for an evening. This is NOT what was happening in that episode, and it definitely wasn't just Twilight who was guilty of it. Hardly ANYONE was having fun in there, and it was showing signs of straining friendships all over. What should have been weekly game night was feeling more like fight club. Maybe it didn't start that way, but it was getting out of hand, and EVERYONE needed to be reminded of that, not just Twilight. Maybe Pinkie could have snapped Twi back to reality and once she realized how bad it was, could've made an inspirational speech at the end of the episode. This problem really WAS one for Pinkie though, not Twilight.

What does this mean? Ugh. Back to Pinkie's most famous song, "Smile." TWO characters have forgotten their element in this episode. It wasn't Pinkie's job to help Twilight win. It was her job to clear all the grouchy angst out of that room.

[Truffles 2,033]

53 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Hardly ANYONE was having fun in there, and it was showing signs of straining friendships all over. What should have been weekly game night was feeling more like fight club. Maybe it didn't start that way, but it was getting out of hand, and EVERYONE needed to be reminded of that, not just Twilight. Maybe Pinkie could have snapped Twi back to reality and once she realized how bad it was, could've made an inspirational speech at the end of the episode. This problem really WAS one for Pinkie though, not Twilight.

What does this mean? Ugh. Back to Pinkie's most famous song, "Smile." TWO characters have forgotten their element in this episode. It wasn't Pinkie's job to help Twilight win. It was her job to clear all the grouchy angst out of that room.

That's a great point. (You're on a roll.) I suppose if I want to avoid casting blame on Twilight or Pinkie, I guess I could blame Granny for letting things get to this point. Or blame Mayor Mare or whomever it was that organized Trivia Trot Nights in the first place and then took a hooves-off approach.

Or maybe they all just figured the Princess of Friendship would use her magic and fix things if they got out of hand. Just like she does with weekly monster attacks.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Truffles

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

13 minutes ago, Truffles said:

Or maybe they all just figured the Princess of Friendship would use her magic and fix things if they got out of hand. Just like she does with weekly monster attacks.

Mind control magic is a big no-no. Care Bears do that. Not Ponies.

...usually.

[doomie-22 19]

On 9/9/2019 at 10:19 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

@doomie-22 Twilight was justified to ban them.

No, she was not! 

[BlinkZ 1,151]

On 8/17/2019 at 5:13 PM, bwrosas said:

I, along with likes of Dr.Wolf, seem to speculate and theorize, that this episodes (the first 3 at least of the 2nd half), were stories that the writers behind them wanted to do in pervious seasons, where they would actually fit in continuity with the season they were probably planning to be part of. 

But unfortunaly, they didn't have time to fit them in, until now that is.

I mean, if you want a good example, look at the 2017 movie, Which many feel the context of that fit in more with the season 4-6 continuity, than seasons 7-8.

So perhaps, that's why these first 3 feel a little out of place.

 

Yes, that was my reaction to the alst few wpisdoes. They felt ile they belong in younger seasons rather then Sesoan nine. MLP always had abad conituty issue with in termso fcharacter grotwth sticking.

I"m still mixed about this episode myself. The facial experesions have kind of worn thin for me. They were funny at first but now over used

[PacificGreen 1,163]

From Twilight's "This! Is! TRIVIA TROT!" moment to Applejack dishonoring her family during the apple round, there were so many memeable moments in the show. 

[Jane 123]

I'm bored that Twilight makes mistakes and then she is forgiven as if nothing.

[Jane 123]

On 8/27/2019 at 7:44 AM, CinnamonSwirl said:

Eh, esto me hace darme cuenta aún más de que IMO creo que Twilight es una amiga falsa.  y no es la buena amiga que todos creen que es.

Igual que aquí. Desde que vi el primer episodio y continué, lo que deduje es que Twilight no se preocupa por sus amigos. Siempre le preocupa complacer a Celestia o convertirse en el centro de atención. Otra razón por la que no puedo soportar a Twilight.

I thought I was the only one who didn't like Twilight.

is that, if you look at them well, they have nothing in common, and if you have nothing in common with a person you cannot have a conversation topic, and if there is nothing to talk about, you practically waste your time trying to be a friend of that person , because your can't empathize. And that is exactly what happens in the Mane Six, there is none that resembles the other, no one likes to fly like Rainbow, none is interested in magic like Twilight, none likes fashion like Rarity , none like parties like Pinkie, and none like animals like Fluttershy, none like the family like Applejack. And I know that they have tried to justify these differences several times in the series, but the one that I highlight is the time they went to the village of Starlight and that these ponies were right, You cannot be friends with someone who has nothing in common with you.You have nothing to talk or hang out. The only real friendship for me is that of Starlight and Trixie.

Edited November 10, 2019 by frida

[Dawn-Sunlight 1,228]

On 11/9/2019 at 12:59 AM, frida said:

is that, if you look at them well, they have nothing in common, and if you have nothing in common with a person you cannot have a conversation topic, and if there is nothing to talk about, you practically waste your time trying to be a friend of that person , because your can't empathize. And that is exactly what happens in the Mane Six, there is none that resembles the other, no one likes to fly like Rainbow, none is interested in magic like Twilight, none likes fashion like Rarity , none like parties like Pinkie, and none like animals like Fluttershy, none like the family like Applejack. And I know that they have tried to justify these differences several times in the series, but the one that I highlight is the time they went to the village of Starlight and that these ponies were right, You cannot be friends with someone who has nothing in common with you.You have nothing to talk or hang out. The only real friendship for me is that of Starlight and Trixie.

How do you feel about Pinkie's friendships, since she's friends with pretty much, if not all of Ponyville.

[doomie-22 19]

On 11/8/2019 at 11:44 PM, frida said:

I'm bored that Twilight makes mistakes and then she is forgiven as if nothing.

That's nothing new. That's been a peoblwm with not just her, but the entire main cast, throughout the entire show. 

[Stardust 641]

I found it sooo boring. I felt sorry for pinkie pie and twilight was soo irritating. I guess I don't really like quizzes that much or at least seriously. 

[JMTV99 1,352]

I'm sorry, I don't like this episode. I feel the whole "Twilight goes crazy" gag was ran into the ground down to the point it becomes tiresome very quickly. Also, Twilight was very annoying and her craziness wasn't as memorable compared to Lesson Zero. At least with Lesson Zero, you can understand why she's acting all crazy due to her being desperate to finding a friendship lesson for Celestia. But this was over a trivia game? Are you serious?

Plus, there's a lot of fan pandering moments in this episode that I just can't stand. Twilight said "This is Trivia  TRROOOT!!!" Don't tell me that's a Sparta remix reference? Because you know the fans are gonna take that and use it as a remix it anyway. The shipping names like TwiPie or AppleDash becoming officially canon in the show. Honestly, I'm getting sick and tired of the fan pandering during the later years because it just soil the whole story that the writers wanted to tell.

Finally, I wasn't too crazy about the new animation style. It's way too over the top for my liking.

[Moony the Cat 3,702]

" HES ASLEEP!!! " 

Oh my god, this Episode had so many great facial animations and was soooo funny! I enjoyed all of it! I dont even care if Twilights acting in this episode would contradict her character arc, i dont care a single bit, people make mistakes, how Twilight behaved was normal in my eyes.

This whole Episode was just to funny to me to criticize one bit. Definitely one of my faves.

[Gale Wind 82]

On 2019-08-24 at 8:47 PM, StitchandMLPlover said:

I consider all official Hasbro released episodes, all of EG and the MLP 2017 movie canon regardless of how much I hate a particular episode. "Trivial" is canon! I'm not one of those weirdos who calls unlikable episodes non canon. I can't stand when fandoms write off parts of a show as non canon because they don't like an episode or spin off. I'm allowed to criticize writing however.  

I don’t think it makes people weird to do it though. Fans don’t have to like every single thing a fandom puts out.  It’s just an individual reaction. Everyone deals in their own way and there’s nothing wrong with those of us who deal with it that way at times. I’m one of them in some fandoms.