Am I the only person here who's not a fan of Twilight Sparkle?

[Cloud Strife 928]

If you have to ask "Am I the only one who thinks this?" chances are, no, you're not.

 

Here's my two cents on Twilight as a character-

 

I'm not quite sure where people are getting this "she's absolutely perfect as an alicorn" impression from. Firstly, she worries and frets just as much as ever (in fact, a huge part of the finale was that she was questioning her purpose as a princess; when people say she's self confident or that she knows the answer to everything, I can't help but feel they've missed that point), and secondly, there are mistakes she has definitely made as a princess. In "Bats!", she made not one but two mistakes, one of which was a catalyst for the plot and ended up nearly getting her friend stuck as a savage Batpony, as one immediate example that comes to mind! Yes, she makes considerably less of them than she used to, but there are two reasons for that which are completely understandable:

 

1 - She's grown as a character. It would be strange if she made the same mistakes over and over again when we'd like to assume she's learned from them. She becomes more well-rounded and balanced as a result, instead of teetering toward one trait, even if that trait still exists to some capacity.

 

2 - She's not the spotlight character in many of the episodes in Season 4. Also note that the other ponies who are not in the spotlight also don't make mistakes, either. This is because they're not the center focus and they're not supposed to grow from that experience.

 

That being said, her preachiness in "Rainbow Falls" is obnoxious and that might be where people are getting this idea from, in which case, that's completely understandable, but that's an episode by itself and it doesn't represent every single one in Season 4. Don't let the addition of wings and power blind you to the fact that she still has intrinsic character flaws!

[NotoriousSMALL 1,984]

I must say that I disagree with that.  All Twilight did was save Ponyville, it was Trixie's own mouth in conjunction with Snips and Snails that ruined Trixie's stage act.  In fact Twilight went out of her way to not show up Trixie, flat out refusing when Spike was literally begging her to do something.  She didn't do anything until the ursa forced her hoof and come to think of it, the thing was about to fall on Trixie at one point and one could argue prevented major injury to Trixie.

 

As far as Sunset Shimmer goes I'm not even sure I understand feeling sorry for her.  Again a lot her her problems seemed to be the result of her own actions.

Trixie didn't tell Snips and Snails to go get the Ursa. Trixie was just trying to make a living entertaining people and the mane 6 had to be hecklers about it.

And I also said that it was all SS's fault, but I don't get why OP even mentioned her.

[sweetolebob18 728]

IMO, Twilight started as Hermione & has shifted to Harry (minus the angst).  This is NOT an improvement.  T was my favorite, but I'm shifting more to Fluttershy.  It's the same reason I like Lancelot more than Galahad in the King Arthur legends

[Cleverclover 1,526]

 

 

1 - She's grown as a character.

 

And I guess the mane five haven't grown at all, considering they still make mistakes and learn lessons just as they always have, despite being at this for just as long as Twilight has. Meanwhile, Twilight did not even need to make a mistake or learn a lesson to receive her key, which is something that the rest of them were apparently required to do. 

 

 

 

2 - She's not the spotlight character in many of the episodes in Season 4.

 

 

I'm pretty sure this is due to her lack of flaws more than anything else. 

 

I honestly believe that the writers want us to see Twilight as flawless and better than her friends in every conceivable way. That's why she's the only one usually capable of solving pretty much anything. That's why she's not called out for what little mistakes she does make. That's why she was allowed to have her own brief moment of heroism in the finale while they were all reduced to helpless damsels in distress. 

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,306]

I don't really dislike Twilight; I even grew to like her more during season four.  But she is my fifth favorite Mane Six. xD  I've always somewhat resented how much the show focuses on and revolves around her.  There are six main ponies with individual personalities and abilities!  Rainbow couldn't have Rainboom'd Tirek?  Not even just once?  Rapidly spun around his head in a colorful, disorienting tornado?  While Pinkie repeatedly blasted him with the Party Cannon and / or played instruments to further befuddle him, Applejack lobbed Zap Apples at or threw ropes around him, Rarity blinded him with sequined fabrics and tripped him with furniture, and Fluttershy summoned her animal friends to distract him?  Or inexplicably went Flutterhulk. xDD  Nope.  It was all left up to Twi.

 

Also, "Lesson Zero" Twi is best Twi.

[Pastel 7,630]

Since she's had problems along the way (Lesson Zero) I don't even see her as a Mary Sue.

That's the only episode where she got real problems...

[newfrickinshow 100]

 

 

Trixie didn't tell Snips and Snails to go get the Ursa. Trixie was just trying to make a living entertaining people and the mane 6 had to be hecklers about it.

 

No but Trixie did lead them believe that she could take an ursa on.  This is a case of writing checks that her magic couldn't cash.  I agree that there was heckling but Twilight was the only one of the mane 6 there that didn't get do any of it.  Rarity, RD, AJ, and even Spike were far more guilty of that.  While I can see how some people can say it was a bit wrong, I just don't see how anything in the episode is a knock against Twilight.

 

I'd also like to point out that the one common thread through all of Trixie's magic was that it was mean.  Humiliating, embarrasing, and hurting others seemed to be about all she did so I imagine that was her show.  She would instigate hecklers with her attitude and then humiliate them.  It just so happens she did it in a town where one of the locals were able to show her up.

[Pineapple Bloom 511]

Eh, I like Twilight because she reminds me of myself. XD I don't really dislike any character but I'm a-okay with others' opinions.

[Cloud Strife 928]

And I guess the mane five haven't grown at all, considering they still make mistakes and learn lessons just as they always have, despite being at this for just as long as Twilight has. Meanwhile, Twilight did not even need to make a mistake or learn a lesson to receive her key, which is something that the rest of them were apparently required to do. 

 

I'm pretty sure this is due to her lack of flaws more than anything else. 

 

I honestly believe that the writers want us to see Twilight as flawless and better than her friends in every conceivable way. That's why she's the only one usually capable of solving pretty much anything. That's why she's not called out for what little mistakes she does make. That's why she was allowed to have her own brief moment of heroism in the finale while they were all reduced to helpless damsels in distress. 

 

She's the main character.    She doesn't have to make a mistake like everyone else because she isn't like everyone else. She's the one called to solve the main problem because of that, too. She's always been the main character since her debut; while the others get time to shine, they are still supporting characters by comparison.

 

Also, she was called out in "Bats!", so I'm not sure what you mean.

 

It feels like complaining because Danny Phantom gets ghost powers and Sam and Tucker don't (despite them both having character arcs and having developed characterizations), or about Naruto being stronger than other ninjas and coming out on top in the end.

 

Of course she still has flaws. I just pointed out her freaking out earlier. We don't spotlight those flaws because right now that's not what the writers are trying focus on. What they're trying to do is find meaning in her title, which is what critics have said the show is supposed to do when they give her one like that. I'm confused as to why this is a huge problem when it should be what's expected of the show right now.

[cuteycindyhoney 13,335]

That's the only episode where she got real problems...

Lesson Zero

Magical Mystery Cure

Swarm of the Century

It's About Time

Winter Wrap-up

Green isn't Your Color

The Best Night Ever

 

These episodes all showed Twilight having problems and or making errors in judgment. 

[Moonbutt 88]

I agree she does seem to steal the show a lot, then becoming an immortal alicorn princess of magic. But, there usually is a main character in every show, whether official or fan-made. I suppose she just sets the example that knowledge is power.

[NotoriousSMALL 1,984]

No but Trixie did lead them believe that she could take an ursa on.  This is a case of writing checks that her magic couldn't cash.  I agree that there was heckling but Twilight was the only one of the mane 6 there that didn't get do any of it.  Rarity, RD, AJ, and even Spike were far more guilty of that.  While I can see how some people can say it was a bit wrong, I just don't see how anything in the episode is a knock against Twilight.

 

I'd also like to point out that the one common thread through all of Trixie's magic was that it was mean.  Humiliating, embarrasing, and hurting others seemed to be about all she did so I imagine that was her show.  She would instigate hecklers with her attitude and then humiliate them.  It just so happens she did it in a town where one of the locals were able to show her up.

It still isn't Trixie's fault. Snips and Snails are just really dumb. Who in the right mind would go and do something as stupid as to put the town in danger? People who actually are that stupid. And it being humiliating, they got what they deserved, they chose to be cocky and tried to one-up Trixie at her own show. But yeah it wasn't Twilights fault.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

It still isn't Trixie's fault. Snips and Snails are just really dumb. Who in the right mind would go and do something as stupid as to put the town in danger? People who actually are that stupid. And it being humiliating, they got what they deserved, they chose to be cocky and tried to one-up Trixie at her own show. But yeah it wasn't Twilights fault.

Anyone who actually believes the "Trixie was being heckled" nonsense needs to actually go watch the episode.

[Justin_Case001 4,933]

It's really getting tiring how the show keeps hitting us over the head with how much better she is than her friends.

 

Poor Twilight.  Pinkie's the only one in her corner.

 

I really don't think she's overly perfect.  I've enjoyed seeing her grow.  But I do agree that she was more appealing and relatable pre MMC.  But I still hold that if we kept getting more Lesson Zeros, people would complain that she's not learning or growing or remembering her lessons.  It's a slippery slope, trying to have characters grow but not lose what made us love them to begin with.

 

My stance is that Twilight was destined from the beginning to become the next ruler of Equestria.  I absolutely think that her becoming an alicorn princess is a good thing, but I think that MMC should have been the series finale.  Most of the episodes in season 4 could be done with her still a unicorn, and nothing would change.  All could be done with her as a unicorn with some minor tweaking.  I think they should have gone along with season 4, and probably five and so on, with her still being a unicorn.  Make MMC the series finale, then have the movie be about her trying to come to terms with this new identity/responsibility.  I've always believed that the season 4 premiere, Princess Twilight Sparkle, could easily be fleshed out into an entire movie.  I would have been tickled to death if they had done it that way.  But I'm alright with it as is.

[Celli 4,349]

Well, she's my favorite character, but it's perfectly fine to dislike her.

 

 

I don't think she's is a Mary Sue. Perfect? Yep, I can definitely agree with that (and no, they aren't necessarily the same thing). It's really getting tiring how the show keeps hitting us over the head with how much better she is than her friends. It's really getting tiring seeing her magic-related incidents go entirely unchecked simply because the writers themselves seem hesitant to portray her as anything less than perfect. 

NO. 

Twilight is NOT perfect, you need to stop saying that. All of your points about that are just WRONG. I'm sorry you feel that way, but they are.

And most of the hatred and "Mary-Sue" is just blind hatred, "I don't like change!" And yes, I am aware that it was still done rather poorly, but even if it was done well, the people who didn't like the change wouldn't have liked it, because some people don't like change because either

A. They keep nostalgia glasses on, or they want a show to stagnate.

I'm sick of seeing this stuff. You can think that all you want, but it's still wrong. She is NOT perfect. End of story. And I'm not saying this because she's my favorite pony. I love Twily regardless of if she has wings or not. Do I want her to become all-powerful? No, then you would be right, and she WOULD be perfect, but again, she isn't, plain and simple. If Twilight lost her wings, I know a lot of people would rage and say, "What was the point of MMC, then?" But I would not care. 

Good day.

Also, the remane 5 have had significant character development, too. Maybe Fluttershy and Pinkie haven't had the best, but as a whole, they have.

[Pastel 7,630]

Lesson Zero

Magical Mystery Cure

Swarm of the Century

It's About Time

Winter Wrap-up

Green isn't Your Color

The Best Night Ever

 

These episodes all showed Twilight having problems and or making errors in judgment. 

Oh you're right...

But most of these episodes are from the first seasons, there hasn't been a single episode like these ones in season 4.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Blobulle

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

You wouldn't really be so heartless as to dislike our good friend Twi, would you?

 

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

 

 

It feels like complaining because Danny Phantom gets ghost powers and Sam and Tucker don't (despite them both having character arcs and having developed characterizations), or about Naruto being stronger than other ninjas and coming out on top in the end.

 

To be fair, there're a lot of people who'd also argue that Naruto would've been a better series if it'd toned down the hyperfocus on Naruto and Sasuke and given some more time/relevance to a few of its compelling minor characters instead. I think the lesson is that when the narrative seems to elevate one character so far above others in importance (some kind of chosen one), you've gotta be really careful how you handle it if you want to tell a story of a group of characters overcoming problems together. That's more or less my stance with Twilight and the Alicorn thing, and I can't say I've been completely happy with how they've handled her in the past two seasons.

 

That said, I don't dislike Twily at all. I really like her when they have her tackle a relatable problem and have her struggle a little. She was fantabulous in Rainbow Rocks, and especially in Testing Testing 1, 2, 3, which is my favorite portrayal of her ever. Give me more of that, and more teamwork in whatever crises the finale episodes throw at the girls, and she'll rocket up my favorites list faster than you can imagine.

[Moonlight 7,290]

I love Twilight Sparkle, she's my favorite mane 6 pony and favorite pony overall. She's adorable, funny, relatable, nice to look at/easy on the eyes, intelligent, etc..

 

Obviously not everyone is going to like her, and that's perfectly fine, opinions are opinions. I despise Princess Luna so you could imagine how alone I feel in that regard.

 

Twilight seemed to have shined best in Rainbow Rocks, she had a problem and doubted herself, and while she was fine in season 4, it wouldn't hurt to have more Rainbow Rocks moments.

 

Twilight obviously isn't perfect, as shown in Rainbow Rocks (doubting herself in a problem and basically being saved by Sunset Shimmer), Testing, Testing 1,2,3 (her "perfect" studying methods not working), Twilight's Kingdom (not knowing what to do in each scenario that was thrown at her), and Bats! (screwing up a spell which is something she does a lot) to name a few.

 

So as long as you have valid reasons to dislike a character (her being "perfect" doesn't count since it's been shown multiple times that it isn't true), then go ahead.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

 

 

She doesn't have to make a mistake like everyone else because she isn't like everyone else.

 

Oh, she definitely isn't like everyone else, that's for sure. Where once the mane six all used to be on relatively even terms development-wise, Twilight now towers over her friends as though on a mile-high pedestal. The show clearly wants to portray her as the most appealing character, and it does so fantastically. I really don't see how one could possibly watch through season 4 and not see how much Twilight is obviously superior to her friends. 

 

Because of that, it does not come as any particular surprise to me that she did not have to adhere to the apparent requirements for receiving a key like her friends did. 

 

 

 

Also, she was called out in "Bats!", so I'm not sure what you mean.

 

The episode placed the majority of the blame for Flutterbat on Applejack, and she was the one who actually had to suffer for it. Meanwhile, Twilight wasted absolutely no time distributing the blame so as to take much of the responsibility off of herself, even though, in my honest opinion, she deserved nearly all of it. Had Twilight actually accepted proper responsibility, that would have easily portrayed her in the worst light, which was obviously no one's intent. So when it came time to learn a lesson from the incident, Twilight did not have to learn a damn thing because she was never properly called out for her mistake. 

 

So yes, because of incidents like this, she isn't entirely perfect. I admit that. However, considering that she isn't called out for even massive blunders like this, I honestly feel that's the impression the writers want to leave us with. 

 

 

 

It's a slippery slope, trying to have characters grow but not lose what made us love them to begin with.

 

It's really not that slippery when it comes to the mane five, each of whom have received plenty of growth over the last four seasons, yet I can still see them as largely the same characters they started out as. 

 

Twilight, on the other hand, now makes her season 1 self look like an immature child. She has obviously come miles further than any of the mane five have from who they used to be, and unsurprisingly, the biggest leap for her clearly occurred just after season 3. 

 

 

 

 

Twilight is NOT perfect, you need to stop saying that.

 

 

Regardless of whether you'd call it "perfect" or not, I find the character who she is now to be downright insufferable. Insufferable because of her general inability to show flaws or any other quirks which once made her relatable. Insufferable because of the show's inability to portray her as in the wrong for anything, even when she actually is in the wrong. Insufferable because of her always being the only one capable of solving any problems or issues the mane six are faced with. Insufferable because of how much better she is meant to look to us in relation to the mane five, who now actually look very immature in comparison. 

 

I'm not just some blind Twilight hater. I don't hate her, I simply hate what she has become. 

[AFK 89]

I still wish Twilight will somehow lose her wings and go back to being the humble but cute bookworm she was.

That's the Twilight I am missing a lot.

 

:okiedokielokie:

Edited February 16, 2015 by Noricasy

[Sipenda 66]

Nah your dislike of twilight is cool. We all have our reasons for liking X pony, for me I Love Rarity and despise Fluttershy with a passion.

 

I Find it pretty easy to relate to Twilight (still only no 3 in my book) as I’m unfortunately in her position on a regular basis (I work in a very obscure field of science) and as a result I deal with a lot of people that come in for training that have 2-4 PHD’s and I would not trust most of them with the pointy end of a screw driver. My personal favorite are engineers that say they have extensive training on X piece of equipment and wind up costing me days of frustration because they don’t properly ground an expensive piece of equipment.   So for her to be good in her field (magic) and to continue to try to better herself I understand that burn.    

 

As for Trixie she in my opinion is a VERY dangerous pony. Her willingness to step up and continuously brag about her skills with only marginal ability to perform them is terrifying (been in the hospital with 2nd and 3rd degree burns because of someone like that).

 

Sunset, I’m at a 50/50 on her as to whether or not I like her or hate her. Her obvious flaws have the ability to be corrected with a little guidance. I think I’m on the path to liking her.  

 

 

It’s just like in life, I’m sure you have a friend that likes or dislikes another acquaintance, we all have things we find comfortable or disconcerting. So are you wrong for hating Twilight?   Nope hate the purple pony all you want.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Sipenda

[Alan Crytex 165]

Haha, it's okay. It's your opinion, it's different view from you and I have mine different. But it's kinda odd that someone actually hate Twilight. You know, it's my first time seeing someone that hates her.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Hmmm... This is sort of an experimental idea that I haven't put too much thought into yet, so please tell me if you can maybe agree with this.

 

The problem isn't with Twilight specifically. She's pretty sensible on her own. The problem is with everyone else to Twilight.

Here's what I mean. Those saying that Twilight is better than everyone else have a point, but so do those bringing up that she clearly isn't. The way I see it, Twilight believes that she's not better than anyone else, but literally everyone else does. The way her friends act to her seems to show that they really do consider her better, because in a narrative sense, she really is more important. She may not actually be better, depending on your interpretation, and she may not act like it, quite the opposite. However it's hard to deny that the story and characters often DO treat her like she's better. Heck, the plot of Boast Busters was literally "Twilight is better than Trixie but doesn't want to act like it."

 

It's the same problem I brought up a few weeks ago with her being a princess. Twilight herself has sensible doubts about the whole thing. But everyone else, everyone in the entire series, from her friends and family, to the other princesses, to even the villains, ALL accept her princessdom at face value. She never has to prove anyone wrong because she's the ONLY one questioning it.

 

That's where I think a lot of this disagreement is coming from. From the facts, and Twilight's own assessment of herself, she's pretty modest. But expand that to how the story, the writers, her friends, and even the rulers of the land treat her, and it's very easy to see her as a Mary Sue. She's arguably born the most powerful unicorn ever, is manipulated into important situations, saves the world in relatively mundane ways, is constantly praised and admired by her friends, is constantly given very important roles she doesn't deserve by the ruler of the land, is made a ruler herself for no stated reason whatsoever, ascends to a higher race of being, doesn't have to go through the trials her all her friends do... And the show tells us it's literally all "destiny".

Edited February 16, 2015 by Dulset Tarn

[ponylaces 1,870]

I'm not a big fan of Twilight either (5th on my list), but I do respect her and understand why other bronies like her so much.

 

She was shoehorned in most of the episodes in season 1, and it just didn't feel natural to have her in the spotlight all the time, no matter the situation. People are saying she became a "mary sue" after she became an alicorn, but I have to disagree. She had her own problems while being a princess, and she did have some great episodes in the later seasons too (Testing Testing 1 2 3, Twilight's Kingdom, and even Rainbow Rocks).