Do Human beings have free will?

[Envy 6,012]

The way our brains work, I'm not entirely sure that something such as 'free will' would be possible. You know since we really just react to stimuli.

 

BUT I am not qualified to speak on this. It is not something I've looked into, nor is it something I've really thought about. I don't consider it really relevant to my life, since i don't believe in any kind of higher power. I like to think that I make my own decisions, I'll leave it at that. xD

[TwilizzleFoShizzle 95]

But what about if you chose to eat something because somebody did not recommend it or you chose to try something for yourself for the first time despite others saying not to? My personality usually wants me to try different things and while sometimes i do take my friends advice their are other times i ignore it and try something for myself.

What may be happening is that in the absence of a substantial amount of prior events to base decisions off of, the brain defaults to a certain set of deciding factors, most commonly referred to as personality, which it will use to determine the best course of action. For example, your brain may be wired to act against what others are saying and as such you will eat the pizza if they say not to or vice versa. Also a small amount of random number generation may go on, which is what most people recognize as free will, but it really is just picking a random number between 1 and 10. and you dont consciously pick that number, it gets picked for you by a small area of your brain.

[Veronica The Miffvixen 232]

Well, I apparently choose where I walk, what I do, and what I say. If that's not a clear indication of free will, I really don't know what is.

[Commander Urdnot 2,680]

I was thinking about this for awhile. Never thought of making a thread about it though.

 

It's a good question. Do humans really have free will?

 

Let's say that I knock over a soda. Did that soda fall over because I chose to knock it over? Or did it happen because of circumstance? Because it was in the room, and I was talking about free will with another person, and I am the type of person that would knock over a soda can to prove a point, was the soda destined to fall?

 

Are we really in control of our actions? Or does circumstance, and our personality control our actions?

[Alex Kennedy 1,228]

Yes, humans have free will. To say otherwise is to discredit everything we've done as a species, good and bad. Besides, if we don't have free will, what's the point of doing anything? If nothing else, I'd rather assume that I actually have some choice in my actions.

[TailsIsNotAlone 3,694]

I said "somewhat" because having free will is like physical fitness--use it or lose it. Most people aren't using it. Instead they're following some other person or trend, walking into decisions before they know they've made them, and rationalizing those choices after the fact. A beginner's course in hypnosis is enough to knock huge holes in the assumption of self-determination.

 

But individuals with truly free will have their own problems. We've all been around people like that, guys (usually guys, girls think too much) who have a raw primal electricity about them and don't care about behaving "normally." They can be scary, uncontrollable and even dangerous.

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,671]

For me, Free Will is like the God of the Gaps in the arena of human behavior. The more I look into the human condition, the further back the concept is pushed. What I find worse is not the concept itself but the way people think of it. There is a bit of conflict between me and my older siblings about society and people in it. In a nutshell I hate society because it creates an environment that just breeds corruption and depravity of various kinds. When I explain the connection between environment; past and present, and the choices we make, I get completely dismissed (often before I get preached on) often hearing the phrase "we are not robots". The point is, our choices are heavily influenced by what we've been through (in effect, what lies in our memories be they explicit or implicit memory) and the present conditions of the individual. By looking into the interaction between environment and behavior, it is possible to get an idea as to what environmental conditions; by that I mean not only physical attributes like temperature and humidity but also the culture and the quality of social relations, brings out the best in us. The reason why history shows itself to be nothing more than one big embarrassment after the other is that the core social environmental factors have persisted. Civilization is going to have to change fundamentally if we hope to see the insanity gone and the idea of free will seems to be one thing that's getting in the way of that.

Edited March 3, 2013 by SunBurn

[Lady Rarity Pony 4,892]

Free will is so intuitively obvious that if you deny its existence you have a very heavy burden of proof on your end--along side those who deny the existence of the external [extra-mental] world.

 

In all honesty, I'd say everyone [except for mad men] believes in free will in their everyday life. When you sit down at a restaurant and are given a menu I'm sure your first thought upon looking at the menu isn't "what are the neurons in my brain going to inevitably lead me to eat this time".

 

Those who embrace materialism/physicalism, Islam, certain forms of Calvinism, etc. must deny free will. But if anything, the intuitive obviousness of free will simply counts as evidence against those beliefs. Evidence that needs a very heavy rebut to do away with.

For me, Free Will is like the God of the Gaps in the arena of human behavior. The more I look into the human condition, the further back the concept is pushed. What I find worse is not the concept itself but the way people think of it. There is a bit of conflict between me and my older siblings about society and people in it. In a nutshell I hate society because it creates an environment that just breeds corruption and depravity of various kinds. When I explain the connection between environment; past and present, and the choices we make, I get completely dismissed (often before I get preached on) often hearing the phrase "we are not robots". The point is, our choices are heavily influenced by what we've been through (in effect, what lies in our memories be they explicit or implicit memory) and the present conditions of the individual. By looking into the interaction between environment and behavior, it is possible to get an idea as to what environmental conditions; by that I mean not only physical attributes like temperature and humidity but also the culture and the quality of social relations, brings out the best in us. The reason why history shows itself to be nothing more than one big embarrassment after the other is that the core social environmental factors have persisted. Civilization is going to have to change fundamentally if we hope to see the insanity gone and the idea of free will seems to be one thing that's getting in the way of that.

I think you've misunderstood what exactly free will is. The fact that we have influences or past memories that we will use to base our decisions on does not abrogate free will. If anything, it just goes to show how we use free will. Not whether we have it or not.

 

More importantly, the idea of free will could hardly be said to cause adverse social effects. Studies done on belief in free even show that those who disbelieve in it are more prone to aggression, committing crimes, 'mindless' conformity and find it more difficult to engage in counterfactual thinking (among other bad effects). Sources: [1] [2] [3]

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,671]

 think you've misunderstood what exactly free will is. The fact that we have influences or past memories that we will use to base our decisions on does not abrogate free will. If anything, it just goes to show how we use free will. Not whether we have it or not.

 

More importantly, the idea of free will could hardly be said to cause adverse social effects. Studies done on belief in free even show that those who disbelieve in it are more prone to aggression, committing crimes, 'mindless' conformity and find it more difficult to engage in counterfactual thinking (among other bad effects). Sources: [1] [2] [3]

A few questions come to mind when reading those abstracts. Because I'm not subscribed, I have no access to the full articles. What I'd like to know is how a belief in determinism were induced in the test subjects. What were the slogans used to do that? Another thing, what is it these people know about genetics and environmental influences? To believe that environment influences one's behavior without at least some concrete understanding of how that happens leaves one in a dispossessed, hopeless and possibly paranoid state. I understand that people who don't believe in free will may use that as an excuse to behave atrociously and I am against that myself.

 

While I don't really believe in free will, I don't dismiss it altogether. From what I know of quantum mechanics, the uncertainty principle keeps physics itself from being deterministic. Our free will may be found in quantum interactions in our neurons. Fate isn't something I accept as a belief either or more accurately said, I fail to see the relevance in it. Things require energy to move and change and that idea is enough for me to put energy and resourcefulness into doing things that need to be done. That said, the whole test on the idea of free will on people's behavior is beginning to sound oversimplified.

 

Morals... My idea of morals is centered around health. What is it that promotes good health in people? I'm not only speaking physiological health but also on the psychological and social levels. The study of the interconnection of those levels is called the bio-psycho-social model. Because of this idea, it's important that I understand just how environment influences people on both small and large scales. With an understanding of what promotes positive health in people, it gives me the tools to not just help someone out but more importantly, to do so effectively. Read about how I put that understanding into practice here.

 

The point is, while the idea of probing for moral behavior based on the belief or disbelief of free will may be interesting, I would advice to add at least another dimension to scale. In my case, that is the proper understanding of human behavior, something most people don't really have.

 

Just thought I'd add this; The expression of genes is itself heavily influenced by environment.

[Pony Joe 582]

Even though it's impossible to prove for certain, I think that we do indeed have free will.  For certain things, at least.  There are some decisions that are influenced immensely by signals we get from our bodies, but others (such as exactly how to phrase this post) are made entirely consciously.

 

In other news, this was my 750th post!  My quest for pony status is 75% complete!

Edited March 3, 2013 by Pony Joe

[Vedana Purity 221]

Yes and No.

 

Human beings have the right to Life and Free Will, meaning we can sing, dance, learn, believe in a certain faith we desire, all that sort of stuff you have been properly told by the other good people here in this forum. Since I am a Catholic, God give Free Will to all, blah, blah, blah, you get the mumbo jumbo humbo dumbo, moving on.

 

HOWEVER, when it comes to Political and law terms, then technically we do not. For example, living in the UK, you can't just go running around armed with a shotgun and blasting bullet holes into every single person you meet on the street regardless of how fun that may sound [insert stupid joke here] and also depending on the riot and protest you can be arrested for crime that you believe you have 'the right of free will' to protest about.

 

So in overall context try and think hard and outside the box, looking at all the view points of Free will, that includes Religion, Law, individuality, psychologically, etc.

[Captain Gobblez 55]

Every human being has a free will. The question is if he or she is able or wants to express it. People in Europe and America will have this more strongly than for example an African raised in poor conditions, or to push it to the extreme, slaves even. 

 

Everyone has his or her own views on this. For example I saw "destiny" being mentioned. I don't believe that there is a path made for you and that you have to follow it, and that there are only little things that you can choose for yourself.

 

But again it really depends where you are from, women in Arabic countries have almost no rights and therefore no free will (at least that's what they are told) Free will is something very precious and it is one of the biggest ways to develop yourself as a person.

[Fluffy Pinkie 417]

 

HOWEVER, when it comes to Political and law terms, then technically we do not. For example, living in the UK, you can't just go running around armed with a shotgun and blasting bullet holes into every single person you meet on the street regardless of how fun that may sound [insert stupid joke here] and also depending on the riot and protest you can be arrested for crime that you believe you have 'the right of free will' to protest about.

 

 

But don't you still have free will. I had one of my old high school teachers who told us at the begining of our class we could do whatever we want in our class, but their might be consequences for some of our choices. So in the end can't you chose to do just about anything? while you may suffer consequences you can still chose to do an action. An example would be (Touchy subject) Suicide. Can't you chose weather or not to commit suicide if you couldn't then why or their some who truly think of Committing it but later decide against it?

[Mephala 2,633]

I do think that humans have free will, but that's not to say that we have moral free will, if that makes sense. Our society pushes us to a certain direction; for example, the idea that in order to be "pretty" you need to be thin or in order to achieve happiness you need to have wealth. We can choose what we believe, but the pressure of fitting into society can warp our views on certain subjects and/or make us act in a way that may not be how we normally would.

That's my nonsensical view.

[Lady Rarity Pony 4,892]

A few questions come to mind when reading those abstracts. Because I'm not subscribed, I have no access to the full articles. What I'd like to know is how a belief in determinism were induced in the test subjects. What were the slogans used to do that? Another thing, what is it these people know about genetics and environmental influences? To believe that environment influences one's behavior without at least some concrete understanding of how that happens leaves one in a dispossessed, hopeless and possibly paranoid state. I understand that people who don't believe in free will may use that as an excuse to behave atrociously and I am against that myself.

 

While I don't really believe in free will, I don't dismiss it altogether. From what I know of quantum mechanics, the uncertainty principle keeps physics itself from being deterministic. Our free will may be found in quantum interactions in our neurons. Fate isn't something I accept as a belief either or more accurately said, I fail to see the relevance in it. Things require energy to move and change and that idea is enough for me to put energy and resourcefulness into doing things that need to be done. That said, the whole test on the idea of free will on people's behavior is beginning to sound oversimplified.

 

Morals... My idea of morals is centered around health. What is it that promotes good health in people? I'm not only speaking physiological health but also on the psychological and social levels. The study of the interconnection of those levels is called the bio-psycho-social model. Because of this idea, it's important that I understand just how environment influences people on both small and large scales. With an understanding of what promotes positive health in people, it gives me the tools to not just help someone out but more importantly, to do so effectively. Read about how I put that understanding into practice here.

 

The point is, while the idea of probing for moral behavior based on the belief or disbelief of free will may be interesting, I would advice to add at least another dimension to scale. In my case, that is the proper understanding of human behavior, something most people don't really have.

 

Just thought I'd add this; The expression of genes is itself heavily influenced by environment.

Oh, of course, I agree if you mean to say understanding human [moral] behavior should take into account environmental, social, cultural, genetic, et al conditions. I just meant to emphasize the fact that said influences do not abrogate free will. Not on their own, at least. Any serious explanation of behavior or predicting behavior would require those to be taken into account--lest the answer simply be explanatorily deficient.

 

Regarding your second point, I wouldn't think the uncertainty principle of quantum physics would do much to explain free will, whether it attempts to explain why we have free will or why we have the sense of free will. From what I see, if you're attempting to create a model of free will on the scheme of materialism it would simply multiply the problem for free will (you would have gone from determinism to randomness!). If you reject materialism then the appeal to quantum physics would seem unnecessary and of little explanatory benefit.

 

A materialistic deterministic model that regards the sense of free will as illusion would seem more coherent and of greater explanatory power than any model appealing to quantum physics. [but of course I still regard this model as flawed! ]

 

I take for granted the point that you wouldn't appeal to ourselves being able to influence the quantum states because then you'd have posited a sort of independent mind which of itself would be sufficient to explain free will without need for appeal to quantum physics.

 

Oh, and...I wish I could sub to all those sites! I'd love full access to 'em. I only had access to excerpts from the studies alluded to in other articles. I link those with a sort of hope that someone could get full access!

 

From what I could get, the patients were led to believe in determinism through arguments [not 'slogans'? ]. Their knowledge of environmental factors would seem beyond the point. I wouldn't say they oversimplified anything, although they did make the mistake of not distinguishing between incompatibilistic and compatibilistic forms of free will when displaying arguments against free will. But for my purpose here the lack of distinction wouldn't be much of a problem since my point was to show the possible effects of belief in determinism as opposed to belief in any particular form of free will.

 

That all being said, I think attempting to jetison belief in free will to combat ignorance would be counter-productive. We could very well learn to take into account other factors while maintaining belief in free will.

 

Not to mention that the claim that we should leave behind free will seems to assume we can discern possible outcomes and then make a choice--which would presuppose free will!

[Titan Rising 2,156]

How is this even a question?  I have the choice to make my own decisions.  It was because I wanted to that I'm commenting on this thread.  I make the decision to do anything that I choose, I can't think of any way for anyone to claim we don't have free will.

 

If you think everything is part of a plan and everythings predetermined that's fine with me, whether or not that's true doesn't matter to me.  I'll just keep living my life doing things and believing what I want because it's what I want to do and what I want to believe.

[Agent153 49]

I believe that all people have free will. I mean I believe in god and the way I see it, what would be the point of creating life if it will only follow a set of expectations and have no say in how it lives.

 

That's what makes people so interesting. We all live our lives in any way we see fit, no matter what any other person says. Besides I don't like the idea that at birth everything is decided, that's no way to live.

[Sir.Flutter Hooves 2,953]

Well I believe in God. We have free will. We can either choose to believe in Him, or in any other religion.

 

We have the free will to choose what we want to do with our life. We have the free will to talk about what we want to talk about. We have the free will to choose our friends, school, significant others, pets, housing. I could go on and on.

 

So yes, my believe is that we as humans do have free will.

[Michael DeSanta 258]

I belive in the idea of no fate but what we make. The idea of fate only seems like it wasmeant to be because we are billions of people whos actions cause said effects. Putting the theroies together something that may seem ment to be may be the odds or the choice of several billion peoples causes and effects. You can predict a move a person may make by their simple actions and twitchs. People have paterns they establish to say they do not have free will is going to far. Humans simply like routine and order however just 1 or 2 people going against the grain equals chaos in this world society controls it more or less. the idea that we have no free will is the true illusion. We choose not to use free will due to our standard routines. So in theroy what may seem like fate may actually be the subconscious free will which wehave more control overit then we think.

[hawkflame 3,310]

I think that we have free will in the sense that there's no greater "guiding power" in our lives aside from human effort and chance. However, that's not to say that we aren't entirely predictable. If a person is raised in a particular environment, or come across certain circumstances in his life that color his ability to make certain choices, is that really, truly free will?

 

I think it's a mix.  We're not automatons and we do think for ourselves, but at the same time we are to some degree a product of our environment. 
 

[SagasaPony 122]

Stoic philosophy tells us that reason, logic and free will are what makes us human beings special.

 

After all, existence is shared by all things, whether plant, animal, mineral or human,

 

Life is common to plants, animals and people.

 

Instincts and emotions are common to both animals and people.

 

Reason and logic however, the capability to say "This is what I choose to do.", is ours and ours alone.

 

It's a pity not many people use it. 

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,671]

 

From what I could get, the patients were led to believe in determinism through arguments [not 'slogans'? ]. Their knowledge of environmental factors would seem beyond the point. I wouldn't say they oversimplified anything, although they did make the mistake of not distinguishing between incompatibilistic and compatibilistic forms of free will when displaying arguments against free will. But for my purpose here the lack of distinction wouldn't be much of a problem since my point was to show the possible effects of belief in determinism as opposed to belief in any particular form of free will.

 

That all being said, I think attempting to jetison belief in free will to combat ignorance would be counter-productive. We could very well learn to take into account other factors while maintaining belief in free will.

 

When you look at certain problems or recurring problems as nothing more than a result of decisions, it makes one blind to any possible solutions. For example, let's say someone is depressed. People do not choose to become depressed. Much of depression is rooted in self-loathing, feelings of inadequacy, feeling not wanted, bad relationships, failing what one set out to do, feeling like one's presence nor actions matter... Those are just what I can name at the moment.

Under the idea of free will, the person is fully responsible for their actions and only have themselves to blame. This often leads to people becoming judgmental of them which is more likely to exacerbate the problem than anything else because it makes such people feel even more inadequate and looked down on. Intentions may be all well and good but you must also be effective instead of counter-productive.

Even worse is how this blaming of people's choices makes people turn a blind eye to pressing problems that affects large groups of people or promote the tackling of symptoms of problems which ends up doing little and at worst; exacerbate the problem. 

 

Let me show you a quote by Dr. Gabor Maté on the topic of addiction

 

These patients of mine die young. They get diseases from HIV, the get infections of their brains, of their heart valves, of their spines. They get crippled, they commit suicide, they get killed violently, they overdose, they get cancer, they die of liver disease and few of them live into their fifties. And the question is "why". Why do people keep doing these terribly damaging things to themselves which has such negative consequences in their lives where they lose their health, they lose their lives, they lose their families, their children, their dignity, their bodies, their teeth, their earthly possessions and still they persist. It's not possible to answer that question if we see it as weakness of will, if we see it as moral failure, if we see it as some kind of a bad decision that people make. It's much deeper than that.

 

That's my point on the damage the idea of free will can cause. Damage in the form of appropriate research, development and action not taken, the result being in the form of sustained suffering that could instead be stifled.

 

 

Going to your other points, my idea of free will is that part of human behavior where even a complete model of the bio-psycho-social model as well as neurology cannot account for. This is why I described it as "the God of the Gaps in the arena of human behavior". Determinism means that a strict, rigid path is followed, which is what we call destiny. The fact that there are more than one outcome to a particular setting in physics alone refutes the idea of destiny outright. 

The problem I have with the idea that environmental influences do not refute free will is because I don't see people putting it into practice as they still act as though people are exempt from environmental influences.

 

Speaking of people's choices, to a certain extent, I am able to predict what a person might do under circumstances but expect me to ask a lot of questions. What kind of family was the person brought up in, were one's attachment needs fulfilled in those tender years? The mother's well-being during pregnancy, the person's experiences and their connections to their biases and philosophies. The challenge being presented and the potential reward or punishment. Does the person even care about the challenge or the rewards? I could go on... 

Fun fact: The bacteria in your gut influence your behavior as well

 

Please understand that I'm not trying to refute free will nor promote determinism or even say people shouldn't believe in free will. Let's just not let it get in the way of bettering people's lives.

[Lunas Husband 2,777]

No I don't think we have any. Because I think that everything happens for a reason. Sure it sounds wrong or odd to some but that's what helped me a lot thinking, that everything has to happen for a reason. but odds are I'm wrong but oh well.

[Kelario 95]

Human beings have free will, but I think of it as one of God's worst ideas. We wouldn't have any issues whatsoever if we had no free will.

[Irish Mist 119]

I believe that humans have the concept of freewill but don't understand how little we actually have since a lot of our choices are made from past experiences given to us by outside parties. Like a you're a lego tower built by other people. So our decisions are just a bi-product over outside influences that we have no control over. You can also tack on how advertising using manipulative means to get you to buy something and then it further ties into the idea. 

 

If this is just a matter of Fate vs. Freewill however, yes, humans do have freewill because the concept of fate almost seems rather silly when you look at it.