Is there perhaps more Alicorns than we think?

[Overlord0909 479]

I kept forgetting to put up this topic, but ever since I noticed a detail, I kept reminding myself at random points about it. Prince Blueblood is Celestia's nephew, right? So, that means Celestia and Luna have ANOTHER sister or brother (unless Luna had a foal, which isn't likely in this series). Celestia and Luna are both alicorns, which automatically makes you a princess or prince, so alicorn could be the usual pony race born (Season 6 premiere proves it's possible). Just throwing that out there...

 

But this actually brings in another reasoning; what if the two princess sisters are sisters to a king or queen? A prince by definition is the son of a king and/or queen. Royal blood is confusing, but the way alicorns are around is moreso.

 

Let me hear what you guys gotta say! I just wanted to get this off my chest.

 

EDIT: Upon reading some comments, I have found some of my statements to have quite a bit of ignorance to them, but that's what forums are for! Anyways, continue to chat on here if you have anything you'd like to say. I think everything has already been said though

Edited March 8, 2016 by Overlord0909

[Once In A Blue Moon 894]

But this actually brings in another reasoning; what if the two princess sisters are sisters to a king or queen? A prince by definition is the son of a king and/or queen. Royal blood is confusing, but the way alicorns are around is moreso.

 

A prince doesn't need to be the direct son - for example, Prince Michael of Kent in the British royal family is a cousin of Queen Elizabeth II by being the grandson of King George V and the son of Prince George (1902-1942, not the current one.)  Now, Prince Michael's son is apparently only Lord Frederick, so apparently he's too far distant to be a prince (he is the first cousin once removed of Queen Elizabeth II, according to Wikipedia anyway.)

 

You're spot on about the nephew bit, though, which hadn't occurred to me until now. Hmm ... let me think ... 

 

 

 

which automatically makes you a princess or prince

 

Have we seen any male alicorns? We've seen princes, but none of them have been alicorns.

 

... so, if Celestia and had a brother who wasn't an alicorn, and they became alicorns the same way Twilight did, then the brother's child would be their nephew, but not royal? But then Blueblood IS a prince, which suggests that he is a non-alicorn descendant of a presumably non-alicorn sibling of Celestia and Luna. Which leads me to believe that Luna and Celestia were born alicorns rather than becoming them through some feat of magic.

 

But if Celestia and Luna are thousands of years old, then their non-alicorn relatives should be long dead, so if Blueblood is really a nephew then Celestia and Luna have an alicorn sibling who had a child recently (well, not so recently, since Blueblood is said child's child.) Since we have seen no evidence for another royal sister, I must come to the conclusion that Blueblood is lying. Or Celestia and Luna's sister (I assume, being an alicorn) is both very discrete and also into much younger stallions.    

 

I think the problem is that royalty as it is conventionally understood is hereditary, whereas in Equestria it can be achieved, theoretically, by anyone without marriage into the royal family. Very egalitarian and all that (apparent female exclusivity notwithstanding) but a nightmare when trying to work out who holds what title. Throw in that Celestia and Luna are thousands of years old and the line of succession must look very strange.

 

 

Of course, what I actually think is that Hasbro are simply copying the British royal family, who had a royal wedding in 2011 (although that one lacked an invasion, as far as I can remember) and lo and behold in 2012 along came Canterlot wedding. 2013 and Prince George was born, followed by Princess Charlotte in May 2015, and then Princess Cadence and Shining Armour had something to announce...

Edited March 7, 2016 by Once In A Blue Moon

[Riganthor 484]

Well seeing that we haven't seen every corner of equestria yet, it is certanly possible that there are more allicorns. Do I want this, eh i am more on the fence with that.

[Metemponychosis 1,238]

I would prefer that if there are more alicorns, they're not related to established characters. Shining Armor and Cadance were jarring enough for me. There is a reason this sort of stuff is associated with bad writing.

 

But I'm not necessarily against the idea, though I would prefer not. A like alicorns being important and special.

[BlinkZ 1,151]

To be fair this tpoc has come up many a time.  Mayb there are mroe alicorns but really the only reason we see so few is cause Hasbro tinks that girls wont' buy male toys..ovously they nver seen how popular barbi is..(well when they dont' sell rather rische barbies)

So show wise..it unclear.  Celestia and luna wer born alicorns and thn were given royality statue but yeah kind of weird how no noe rasid an eye brow at Twilight in the finale huh..hell even applejack like "uh what.." and dosn't se the wings.. how hard is that miss. 

joke: hey must be a fandom joke "oh look another Alicorn oc ..meh..you see those everyday."

[Merion 783]

 Prince Blueblood is Celestia's nephew, right?

 

I bet it's the kind of "mysterious nephew" trope that's so popular in the Disney universe. :'D

 

(Googled it! It's called "Nephewism", according to TV Tropes :'D)

Edited March 7, 2016 by Merion

[hollow-shades 129]

the Journal Of The Two Sisters says that there is a place with a lot of Alicorns.

 

Anyways, I don't think more Alicorns will be shown on the series since the main mechanics of nature are already taken (celestia controlling day and luna controlling night)

 

Plus, there is a very small chance that they will be from a King or Queen.

 

King and Queens are depicted as evil Princes and Princesses on the series, so yeah, I don't think so.

[Roughshod 719]

Prince Blueblood is Celestia's nephew, right? So, that means Celestia and Luna have ANOTHER sister or brother

Not necessarily. Cadance is Celestia's niece but only because she was 'adopted' by her after being ascended to an Alicorn. Prince Blueblood may have been adopted as well(but obviously didn't ascend) for whatever reason.

 

Celestia and Luna are both alicorns, which automatically makes you a princess or prince, so alicorn could be the usual pony race born (Season 6 premiere proves it's possible). Just throwing that out there...

I'm not so sure it can be stated that being an Alicorn automatically makes you a prince or princess. As we've seen with Blueblood, Shining Armor and Princess Amore from the Crystal Empire being royalty doesn't require being an Alicorn. So being an Alicorn might not mean you are considered a member of royalty. Celestia and Luna were Alicorns before they were made princesses and just because all the Alicorns we've seen are princesses doesn't mean they're all the Alicorns that exist.

 

 

As for whether or not Celestia and Luna have any Alicorn relatives out and about, that's just speculation at this point. Nothing has been pointed to and the writers have been adamant about not giving Celestia and Luna too much back story. They seem to prefer maintaining a degree of mystery around the Regal Sisters.

 

If and when anything is revealed it will probably take place at one of three points.

1) The season 6 premiere/finale/series finale.

2) The upcoming 2017 feature film.

3) A new book entry/MLP 'encyclopedia' similar to the Journal of the Two Sisters but with more hard facts and details about Alicorns and where exactly Celestia and Luna came from.

[Overlord0909 479]

You all mention quite a few points I didn't think about. You might call it a spur of ignorance. Thank you all for your input. If there is any other evidence I didn't point out or reasons to argue, I guess you can post that here... (Nobody is going to read this update probably, and will just respond to the question )

[Buzz 1,769]

Knowing Larson, proberly!

[Justin_Case001 4,858]

Celestia and Luna are both alicorns, which automatically makes you a princess or prince

It most certainly does not.

 

Which leads me to believe that Luna and Celestia were born alicorns rather than becoming them through some feat of magic.

Let me just clear up any confusion right now.  The sisters were born alicorns, and were appointed as princesses by Starswirl when they were adults.  Princess is an appointed rank, or position of responsibility.  Being an alicorn has nothing to do with it directly.  I.e. one could be an alicorn and not a princess or prince.  Apparently, though, being the offspring or spouse of royalty does make a pony royalty themselves.  Case in point, Shining Armor was considering a prince upon wedding Cadance, and their (stupid) daughter is automatically a princess.  However, Twilight was not made a princess simply because her brother was a prince.  She was appointed as one later.  And yes, she was appointed.  Her alicorn transformation was something that came from within, and she was then appointed as a princess by Celestia.  She could have declined the position of princess, and she'd still be an alicorn.  It's interesting, though, to think that Shining Armor was apparently a prince quite awhile before Twilight.

 

Personally, I wish that all this flim flam about royalty wasn't a thing.  I wish that they hadn't done the royalty at all, but just invented a completely unique rank for rulers and other special ponies to hold.  Furthermore, I wish that there wasn't any royalty by relation.  It makes it confusing.  It's all because the word "princess" has a stigma attached to it that captivates little girls and sells toys.

 

Anyway, I'd bet that there are several other non-royal alicorns floating around the world (perhaps beyond Equestria, even!), including males.  I think it would be really interesting if they introduced and developed a non-royal alicorn character who's not overpowered.  Just some off the grid, Tom Bombadil alicorn who doesn't have any more magical ability than Sweetie Belle, but has lived for fifty thousand years or something.  I think that'd be neat.

[Once In A Blue Moon 894]

 

 

The sisters were born alicorns, and were appointed as princesses by Starswirl when they were adults.  Princess is an appointed rank, or position of responsibility.

 

It could be that they were appointed as the first royalty, and that all subsequent royalty were given titles by the usual means (which we can't really check without thousands of years worth of family trees) or appointed by the princesses (in the same manner that an apostolic succession bishop is - only a bishop can create another bishop.) 

 

 

 

However, Twilight was not made a princess simply because her brother was a prince.

 

 

She wouldn't anyway, I believe, as having a sibling marry into royalty doesn't make one royalty.

 

 

 

She was appointed as one later. 

 

This does seem to indicate that the transformation and elevation to royalty was simultaneous, and without her consent. Note that she 'looks like a princess' is answered by 'that's because she is a princess.'

 

 

 

Apparently, though, being the offspring or spouse of royalty does make a pony royalty themselves.  Case in point, Shining Armor was considering a prince upon wedding Cadance, and their (stupid) daughter is automatically a princess.

 

It does make me suspect that the drive to have princesses has steamrollered any attempt to be consistent. 

 

 

 

Personally, I wish that all this flim flam about royalty wasn't a thing.  I wish that they hadn't done the royalty at all, but just invented a completely unique rank for rulers and other special ponies to hold.  Furthermore, I wish that there wasn't any royalty by relation.  It makes it confusing.  It's all because the word "princess" has a stigma attached to it that captivates little girls and sells toys.

 

I agree. I'd be more ok with it if it was just a case that Celestia was openly stated as the queen, as then the title of princess would matter less.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Given how the journal of the two sisters talked about there being other alicorns who taught celestia and Luna, I'm pretty much 100% certain that there are other alicorns out there in SOME form or other, even if its just as spectral obi wan style ghosts.


I'm fully 100% expecting the plot of the movie will be finally explaining the lore behind alicorns and what happened to them as a race.

[Roughshod 719]

Personally, I wish that all this flim flam about royalty wasn't a thing.  I wish that they hadn't done the royalty at all, but just invented a completely unique rank for rulers and other special ponies to hold.  Furthermore, I wish that there wasn't any royalty by relation.  It makes it confusing.

 

Anyway, I'd bet that there are several other non-royal alicorns floating around the world (perhaps beyond Equestria, even!), including males.

Agreed. Instead of telling title of 'princess' the should have chosen a term more neutral and geared towards a purpose. Take the word 'guardian' for example. It's simple, strong and to the point. It doesn't reflect any kind of status or relationship nor is it based on an appeal to stereotypical 'girly' tropes.

 

Celestia: Guardian of the Day

Luna: Guardian of the Night

Cadance: Guardian of Love

Twilight Sparkle: Guardian of Friendship

Flurry Heart: Guardian of Shameless Toy Marketing

 

And with idea that there might be Alicorns existing outside of Equestria, that's a strong possibility. From what I've gathered the basic premise is that there's a threat beyond Equestria. I can see how an unknown Alicorn(s) could play into this, friend or foe.

[Moon Sugar 532]

 

There was an alicorn in the Hearts and Hooves day book. 

[Justin_Case001 4,858]

Flurry Heart: Guardian of Shameless Toy Marketing

Ain't it the truth, ain't it the truth!

 

But I like your idea for a more generic term.  Ooh, I'll tell you what their titles should be!

 

Celestia, the High Seraph

Luna, the Darkening Cloud

Cadance, Walker of the Wheel

Twilight, Keeper of Precepts

Flurry Heart, the Corrupt

 

   Oh, mercy, me and my stupid Final Fantasy jokes.  I'm sorry.

 

 

I'm pretty much 100% certain that there are other alicorns out there in SOME form or other, even if its just as spectral obi wan style ghosts.

Ooh, y'know something?  That actually might be a cool thing to explore.  Ancient spectral ponies.  But only if it was done really well.

 

Oh no, here it comes....can't....stop....CROSSOVER!

 

"I can't do it, Spike.  I can't go on alone."

"Celestia will always be with you."

*Enter cloaked spectral unicorn*

"...Starswirl...  Why didn't you tell me?  You told me Sombra betrayed and murdered my father."

"Your father was seduced by the dark

 

Okay, I'll stop now.

 

 

I'm fully 100% expecting the plot of the movie will be finally explaining the lore behind alicorns and what happened to them as a race.

Hmm!  Another cool idea.  I never thought of that.  It would be pretty cool if they were a super common race...some, like 100,000 years ago, and there's some interesting lore as to why they are so rare now.  That would be a really cool thing to explore.  Potential up the wazoo there.

[Swifty 249]

Agreed. Instead of telling title of 'princess' the should have chosen a term more neutral and geared towards a purpose. Take the word 'guardian' for example. It's simple, strong and to the point. It doesn't reflect any kind of status or relationship nor is it based on an appeal to stereotypical 'girly' tropes.

 

Celestia: Guardian of the Day

Luna: Guardian of the Night

Cadance: Guardian of Love

Twilight Sparkle: Guardian of Friendship

Flurry Heart: Guardian of Shameless Toy Marketing

 

And with idea that there might be Alicorns existing outside of Equestria, that's a strong possibility. From what I've gathered the basic premise is that there's a threat beyond Equestria. I can see how an unknown Alicorn(s) could play into this, friend or foe.

If they ever find a city full of alicorns, the alicorn=royalty theme would have to be dropped. Otherwise it would be weird, because why would a plumber or baker alicorn be royal?

 

Maybe Celestia and Luna would be more useful as bodyguards for more competent unicorn/pegasus/earth pony leaders.

Twilight should be merely a bouncer lol

Edited March 8, 2016 by Swifty

[cmarston1 5,952]

Well maybe the plot of the movie could have something to do with some kind of lost Alicorn civilization of some sort.

Or give out some more lore about Alicorns and their history.

Maybe even we could get a little bit of that in the season 6 premiere.

Edited March 9, 2016 by cmarston1

[Steve Piranha 28,890]

Given how the journal of the two sisters talked about there being other alicorns who taught celestia and Luna, I'm pretty much 100% certain that there are other alicorns out there in SOME form or other, even if its just as spectral obi wan style ghosts.

 

 

I'm fully 100% expecting the plot of the movie will be finally explaining the lore behind alicorns and what happened to them as a race.

Yeah, The journal elaborated very little of those alicorns, maybe to use the lore later. I think the movie will elaborate about them, considering...

 

The leaks making a huge emphasison alicorns, including a sibling of Celly and Luna named "Cosmos". Who knows if they'll keep many of those things, but I doubt they'll take away the alicorn involvement in the movie  

 

[ManaMinori 4,144]

I hope the mysterious Alicorn race vanishing doesn't end up like FMA, where the government uses an entire town as human sacrifces for a Philo. Stone. I hope nothing like that happened to FiM's alicorns, to forever maintain the tree of harmony's powers, or somethig

-shudders-

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

I hope the mysterious Alicorn race vanishing doesn't end up like FMA, where the government uses an entire town as human sacrifces for a Philo. Stone. I hope nothing like that happened to FiM's alicorns, to forever maintain the tree of harmony's powers, or somethig

-shudders-

And thus the secret behind the creation of the alicorn amulet was revealed as an inumerable number of pony sacrifices was needed to create the crimson gem at the center of it;

State friendship maker Applejack and her sister applebloom would end up uncovering the horrible secrets behind its creation after a misguided attempt to bring their mother back to life cost her her hoof and applebloom her body, leading them on their journey.

[Buck Testa 5,503]

Yeah, The journal elaborated very little of those alicorns, maybe to use the lore later. I think the movie will elaborate about them, considering...

 

The leaks making a huge emphasison alicorns, including a sibling of Celly and Luna named "Cosmos". Who knows if they'll keep many of those things, but I doubt they'll take away the alicorn involvement in the movie  

 

Could I have a link to that spoiler? That's interesting as hell. 

[Vixor 80]

I'd assume not, but given the way Cadance and Shining Armor were introduced so suddenly, I may be speaking too soon. At the very least though, I'm comfortable in assuming we've seen most of them.

 

Have we seen any male alicorns? We've seen princes, but none of them have been alicorns.

 

I don't necessarily expect to see one in the show itself, as long as Hasbro's marketing division is somehow convinced that it couldn't make them enough money.

 

That being said, it's total nonsense to suggest that alicornhood would be restricted to one gender. Alicornhood has been shown to be a position given to those who are good and benevolent leaders, and that sort of thing, and thus gender has no relevance whatsoever. Denying candidates alicornhood based on something as irrelevant to such a position as the genitals they are born with would be incredibly insulting, among other huge problems and issues, and would completely destroy the alicorns legitimacy and image. There's just no way.

 

I'd say Starswirl, like Sunset, almost became one, but he didn't understand friendship, as Celestia said. And the only reason Shining Armor and Blueblood aren't ones is because Shining Armor is a prince consort, and Blueblood is generally assumed to have inherited his title (not certain, of course), sometimes with the added assumption that he is in fact the descendant of Princess Platinum. As others have noted, princesses and princes aren't automatically given alicornhood for title alone. Shining Armor is an obvious candidate for alicornhood, though, since he's a good guy and surely has leadership skills from being captain of the guard. The writers could definitely do it, too, it was just take an amount of focus that characters other than the Mane Seven and CMC aren't usually given, screentime wise.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Vixor

[Once In A Blue Moon 894]

 

 

That being said, it's total nonsense to suggest that alicornhood would be restricted to one gender.

 

It is ridiculous, but that is what we have observed so far. Male alicorns cannot be ruled out, but I would expect any alicorn to be a fairly prominent figure, and we have seen neither hide nor hair of them.

 

 

Especially in ' Twilight's Kingdom ', where Celestia, Luna and Cadence transfer their magic to Twilight. Given that they were trying to hide all alicorn magic from Tirek, their efforts would be in vain if there were other alicorns about.

 

 

If they are being consistent, then there really shouldn't be any alicorns unaccounted for - at least, not anywhere in or even vaguely near Equestria. Pulling any more out of a hat would be somewhat disappointing, not to mention that having more of them around is 'cheapening the brand' a bit, so to speak.

[KatonRyu 1,026]

I hope the mysterious Alicorn race vanishing doesn't end up like FMA, where the government uses an entire town as human sacrifces for a Philo. Stone. I hope nothing like that happened to FiM's alicorns, to forever maintain the tree of harmony's powers, or somethig

-shudders-

 

That would be pretty awesome, actually. Could even be the origin story of the Tree.

 

I think the alicorns live in a distant land, though. Celestia and Luna were born as alicorns and nothing in their Journal suggested that was anything unusual so I'd imagine at least some of them are still around given their long life spans.