Why do so many people praise To Where and Back Again?

[heavens-champion 1,893]

Seriously, with all the plot holes and bad pacing, it's hardly the ultimate season finale. At least fanfics have the excuse of not having a deadline.

[Jeric 46,835]

Some liked the newness of not having a Mane Six centric finale. Some liked the pacing (not every episode should have an even pace -- it's a creative tool for a writer to play with the audience -- but most people internet can't name the purpose of any element of style so I usually let it go). Some liked the humor. Some liked the interaction between various characters. Some liked the change in status quo. Some it's a mix of all those and more.

Basically, I like vanilla ice cream the best. My kids like chocolate more. One won't eat a delicious dairy treat with fruit on it. 

Tastes, what can you do, right? It's kinda cool that people can take different things from different episodes and freak other people out because they just don't get why. Life baby! 

[GrimGrimoire 4,970]

I did not know that many people praised it? I know the votes are there, but it always in discussions seems to fall below most other finales from what I have seen.

But in my opinion.

Trixie. She is so great and powerful she can make anything work, and that is good enough for me.

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,329]

Because people have different tastes than you? 

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

I wouldn't say its praised, everytime its brought up I hear pretty constant hate and negativity towards it for its plotholes and worfing of the rest of the cast for the explicit purpose of setting up a glimmer team as the only ones to save the day.

 

its got its fans, and alot of people like the idea of having other people besides the six save the day, but it isn't a universally praised piece like episodes like perfect pear or saddle and row review tend to be.

[GeekySonic 1,150]

Is it getting a whole lot of praise? I must not notice. Even so, why not? Entertainment is subjective. I think it was pretty meh. If people like it, good for them.

[KH7672 1,604]

I praise the episode for many of the reasons listed and my own personal and I would never fight another on their feelings for an episode. I understand the different feelings toward the characters involved and the focus on certain aspects not being what others want in a finale. It's all subjective....however there is one thing I want to touch on:

1 hour ago, heavens-champion said:

Seriously, with all the plot holes and bad pacing, it's hardly the ultimate season finale.

This complaint of plot holes. I for the life of me can't see these plot holes. Plot holes are an inconsistency in the storyline that contradict earlier events. If this is seriously about "How did Chrysalis capture the characters?" that is not a plot hole. That is a more of a "plot explanation exclusion." or "an off-screen handwave" due to not being about the characters involved. Still even so there is nothing from any of the changelings previous experience to say they could not have pulled this off. That it is logically impossible for this plan to have happened. Would I and plenty of others liked an explanation? Of course but there is enough to glance from episode and so many of the changeling appearances to have made this work.

You want an actual plot hole here's a plot hole: How does Starlight's first dream have the updated version of the Town when it didn't look like that when she went back in The Cutie Remark. Unless this means she did go back later then logically she shouldn't have any fear of returning if she did to see that appearence.

I understand if you and plenty of others have frustrations with lack of explanations and vaguery but there are no leaps in logic from what I have seen. Unless you have other examples to share.

[Guest]

I thought it was a fine episode. I loved the emphasis on the secondary characters. So-called 'plot holes' and 'bad pacing' be damned.

[SaburoDaimando 1,196]

I loved the idea of giving someone else that isn't the Mane 6(Especially Twilight Sparkle) a chance to shine as the hero of the story: A break from the usual Season Finale status quo

[Jeric 46,835]

1 hour ago, Unlikeable Pony said:

I wouldn't say its praised, everytime its brought up I hear pretty constant hate and negativity towards it for its plotholes and worfing of the rest of the cast for the explicit purpose of setting up a glimmer team as the only ones to save the day.

It gets brought up in the EqD Discord and when that happens, usually the opinions are somewhat mixed. Many many people state what you just did. I think that if there was a majority opinion it is something along the lines of liking the novelty but still having some issues with the episode. 

Finale's are weird like that with this show. Very very few are universally praised. Some are following the episode, but then the honeymoon ends. 

[FlareGun45 2,221]

I don't praise the finale. I do like it! But it seemed weird because everything seemed to happen too soon. Thorax becoming the changeling king just like that seemed off. He should've been developed a little more first. So basically, it was a good finale, but too early!

[Jeric 46,835]

1 hour ago, GrimGrimoire said:

Trixie. She is so great and powerful she can make anything work, and that is good enough for me.

Just everything in Part 1 with her was gold ... I had to pause the episode when she mumbled about peanut butter crackers in her sleep. The laughs ... they almost killed me!

[Tilgoreth 1,915]

2 hours ago, heavens-champion said:

Seriously, with all the plot holes and bad pacing, it's hardly the ultimate season finale. At least fanfics have the excuse of not having a deadline.

Other way around. A lot of people hate it.

I love it because the mane six weren't involved. And because Starlight Glimmer takes center stage. I think it's mainly Starlight is why people like it. If you don't like her I think it's harder to enjoy.

[Jeric 46,835]

40 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

This complaint of plot holes. I for the life of me can't see these plot holes. Plot holes are an inconsistency in the storyline that contradict earlier events. If this is seriously about "How did Chrysalis capture the characters?" that is not a plot hole. That is a more of a "plot explanation exclusion." or "an off-screen handwave" due to not being about the characters involved. Still even so there is nothing from any of the changelings previous experience to say they could not have pulled this off. That it is logically impossible for this plan to have happened. Would I and plenty of others liked an explanation? Of course but there is enough to glance from episode and so many of the changeling appearances to have made this work.

You mentioned that and I am reminded of two things ... 

There is a great discussion to be had about whether showing everything is a good idea, or even needed. Growing up and today, my favorite franchises would name drop events with no explanation as to what they were. Clone Wars? Whomp raps in my T16? Bounty Hunter at Ord Mantell? What? Star Wars is full of references to things we never see on screen. 

I don't want to see and know everything. Some things are best left to my imagination. 

 

Also, I think when some people don't like an episode, they sometimes struggle for an exact reason why as to explain it, and sometimes, they pick a few typical flaws just to give it a name. It's weird, because it's okay to say ... I just wasn't feeling this episode. I also believe that some just dislike certain characters, but don't want to engage that particular mess so they find something else to hang their hat on instead of saying -- I am not a Glimmer fan. 

3 minutes ago, Tilgoreth said:

Other way around. A lot of people hate it.

I love it because the mane six weren't involved. And because Starlight Glimmer takes center stage. I think it's mainly Starlight is why people like it. If you don't like her I think it's harder to enjoy.

I enjoyed the heck out that twist. For me this episode made me start to think she might work on this show. Currently I look forward to her episodes more than some Mane Six characters. I admit that my enjoyment of the episode is based around Starlight and the group of misfits saving the day. 

[Thrond 3,257]

Well, I have my reasons, and have stated them in the past a few times. Here is my review from when it originally premiered. Here is a shorter take from my second viewing. Personally, I don't agree with every creative decision in the episode, and I think the mane six being captured off-screen is a pretty obvious plot shortcut, but I don't think either of those come close to cancelling out what the episode does right. And I think it's paced really well.  

To summarize:

• The character interactions are consistently hilarious. Discord being a jerk, Trixie being creatively boastful (but, for once, not entirely self-centred), Thorax being adorable, and Starlight struggling to keep it all together are all highly entertaining to me. 
• Plus, the characters themselves are frequently relatable simply because at least three of them are almost constantly expressing uncertainty and insecurity. This is, in my opinion, perhaps Starlight's best outing, rivalled only by this same season's premiere, and all three of the others have their moments as well. 
• Because of this, the episode is about something. It's not entirely justified by the rest of the season - this finale assumes more serialization than My Little Pony is willing to offer - but I adore how Starlight not only proves herself to those around her, but to herself as well. We know she has reason to distrust herself, but then she goes and saves the world. That gives this episode a sense of purpose which the show doesn't always have. 
• Chrysalis is deliciously hammy, and even creepy at points. I'm finally sold on this show having a recurring villain because of just how thoroughly fun it is to hate her. And having my interpretation of her as a tyrannical hothead basically confirmed was pretty nice. 
• It's so much less pretentious than most other finales. The others want you to take them seriously and feel things because of them, but "To Where and Back Again" just wants you to have a good time. There's no metaphysical claptrap, there's no heavy-handed emotional swells, and there's no intense battle scenes. It's all character-driven adventure, and that's really refreshing. 

So yeah, I like this episode because it's, y'know, fun. Like this show should be. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by AlexanderThrond

[Tilgoreth 1,915]

5 minutes ago, Jeric said:

You mentioned that and I am reminded of two things ... 

There is a great discussion to be had about whether showing everything is a good idea, or even needed. Growing up and today, my favorite franchises would name drop events with no explanation as to what they were. Clone Wars? Whomp raps in my T16? Bounty Hunter at Ord Mantell? What? Star Wars is full of references to things we never see on screen. 

I don't want to see and know everything. Some things are best left to my imagination. 

 

Also, I think when some people don't like an episode, they sometimes struggle for an exact reason why as to explain it, and sometimes, they pick a few typical flaws just to give it a name. It's weird, because it's okay to say ... I just wasn't feeling this episode. I also believe that some just dislike certain characters, but don't want to engage that particular mess so they find something else to hang their hat on instead of saying -- I am not a Glimmer fan. 

I enjoyed the heck out that twist. For me this episode made me start to think she might work on this show. Currently I look forward to her episodes more than some Mane Six characters. I admit that my enjoyment of the episode is based around Starlight and the group of misfits saving the day. 

I think the Starlight hate has died down since the start of season seven. She already had a heavy presence in season six, and even more so this season. There's at least four episodes that can be rightully called Starlight episodes this season. And all the episodes where she played a secondary roll.

I wonder if they'll tone her presence down in season 8. (I hope they don't she's one of my favorite characters).

2 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Well, I have my reasons, and have stated them in the past a few times. Here is my review from when it originally premiered. Here is a shorter take from my second viewing. Personally, I don't agree with every creative decision in the episode, and I think the mane six being captured off-screen is a pretty obvious plot shortcut, but I don't think either of those come close to cancelling out what the episode does right. And I think it's paced really well.  

To summarize:

• The character interactions, which are consistently hilarious. Discord being a jerk, Trixie being creatively boastful (but, for once, not entirely self-centred), Thorax being adorable, and Starlight struggling to keep it all together are all highly entertaining to me. 
• Plus, the characters themselves are frequently relatable simply because at least three of them are almost constantly expressing uncertainty and insecurity. This is, in my opinion, perhaps Starlight's best outing, rivalled only by this same season's premiere, and all three of the others have their moments as well. 
• Because of this, the episode is about something. It's not entirely justified by the rest of the season - this finale assumes more serialization than My Little Pony is willing to offer - but I adore how Starlight not only proves herself to those around her, but to herself as well. We know she has reason to distrust herself, but then she goes and saves the world. That gives this episode a sense of purpose which the show doesn't always have. 
• Chrysalis is deliciously hammy, and even creepy at points. I'm finally sold on this show having a recurring villain because of just how thoroughly fun it is to hate her. And having my interpretation of her as a tyrannical hothead basically confirmed was pretty nice. 
• It's so much less pretentious than most other finales. The others want you to take them seriously and feel things because of them, but "To Where and Back Again" just wants you to have a good time. There's no metaphysical claptrap, there's no heavy-handed emotional swells, and there's no intense battle scenes. It's all character-driven adventure, and that's really refreshing. 

So yeah, I like this episode because it's, y'know, fun. Like this show should be. 

That pretty much covers everything that was good about it. 

I have to agree with the "was just fun" part. I don't think it's impossible for mlp to have serious moments, but most times it's either cheesy or just stupid.

I rember one of the writers saying that they treat emotional moments seriously. Which is true to an extent. But a lot of times they will still throw in a stupid gag. There are only a few instances where they showed emotion as more than just a quick gag or the general over dramtic sappyess of mlp.

[Prospekt 10,984]

I'm a bit tired of all the Twilight-centric season finales. S2 was centered around her brother's wedding and her efforts to out the fake Cadance. S3 was Twilight screwing up big time, fixing her mistake, and then transforming into an alicorn. S4 was her beginning to truly find her place as a princess. Oh, and there was an epic battle with Tirek. And S5 was Twilight and Spike vs. a time traveling Starlight. Not that I think those episodes are bad; S2 and S4 of them are among my favorites out of the entire series. But putting Starlight and her new friends in the spotlight was good for her overall character development. Very nice variety there.

[Babyyoshi309 1,829]

What plotholes and bad pacing? 

[Ivan The Adorable 304]

Had to look up what I said at the airing cause I haven't rewatched since and don't remember everything, but like others have said it's really a great character-building episode that spends its time very deliberately giving Starlight some much needed development.

What I said at the time and what I think is still true is that the main problem with the finale (and all of the show's finales) is that the continuity of the series within seasons has always been kind of trash. Most of the episode's pacing faults, as one might be inclined to call them, occur because there has to be this rush to pull together disparate threads and connect them before something epic can happen. A plot hole is often just a phrase for something the writer decided not to tell rather than an incongruity, and for the big one people bring up of having the mane 6 capture off screen, I say it was a necessary sacrifice for devoting time to the characters who would make up the focus of the story.

All of that accounted for, I think they made the best decisions with what they had.

[Hierok 11,829]

51 minutes ago, MegaSean45 said:

I don't praise the finale. I do like it! But it seemed weird because everything seemed to happen too soon. Thorax becoming the changeling king just like that seemed off. He should've been developed a little more first. So basically, it was a good finale, but too early!

They actually should have started with Thorax in season 5. That would have been the best. 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Who praised this finale? I thought i am alone who praised this finale  How many people who actually PRAISED this underrated finale without some heavy criticisms and what wrong with that? After many months since that finale was aired, i thought you already had answers for your question, that period of times are enough to me to understand why people liked episodes that i disliked, it because people have ... 

3 hours ago, ChikoritaCheezits said:

Because people have different tastes than you?

... and they actually explained them.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Lambdadelta

[Sly 236]

I have already expressed the effects this finale had on me about a million of times, no need to get there again. This time I will limit myself saying that is my most hated episode of the entire series beating Stare Master who was my most hated since my very first times on this show.

[Jade Fire 7,036]

i find that most of the people that hate on these episodes are starlight haters that are butthurt she was the star of the finale xD

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

3 hours ago, KH7672 said:

Plot holes are an inconsistency in the storyline that contradict earlier events. If this is seriously about "How did Chrysalis capture the characters?" that is not a plot hole. That is a more of a "plot explanation exclusion." or "an off-screen handwave" due to not being about the characters involved.

If we use a similar example from Gargoyles here, we can classify what happened with Twilight et al as a plot hole, too:

Quote

Gargoyles had one in the final episode of the third season. Broadway automatically knew that Angela and Bronx were in jail despite the fact that he had not yet been told about it, and otherwise had no way of knowing about it happening.

What happened in that episode is a plot hole, because the episode required Broadway to be informed Angela and Bronx were in jail prior. The plot hole is worse, for Angela and B'way are soulmates.

Chrysalis kidnapping Starlight's friends and the Royal Family drove Starlight into forming that hodgepodge team. How they were kidnapped is actually very vital to TWaBA, because it's the glue that holds everything together. Since they were caught so easily, Chrysalis admitting to Starlight that she wasn't worth being kidnapped in Part 2 (while Spike, who's objectively much weaker than her, is), and the increased stakes in the two-parter, it requires explanation. With it missing, the entire story makes no sense.

2 hours ago, Babyyoshi309 said:

bad pacing? 

A couple of reasons explaining why.

1. To Where requires the background to be fully realized prior. Unfortunately, FIM's habit of piecemealing seasonal arcs hurts the episode massively.
   
   Following Tail, Starlight only had two major appearances leading up to it: Times, and Every Little Thing She Does. That's way too few episodes with arc as important and game-changing as hers. ELTSD is one of her worst episodes, because she chose to hypnotize Twilight's friends and strip them of their free will when she was really composed. It took Twilight scolding and being disappointed in her to realize her awful mistake. Also, S6 had many opportunities to plug her in somewhere, including Dungeons & Discord as a silent cameo, but she was treated as a character to be written when the arc demanded it.
   
   Both Thorax and Trixie only appeared once prior to the finale. To Where treats Thorax's change as an arc that will build up into something even bigger during the season. One big problem: The audience won't fully buy into Thorax's arc and ascension as king unless they see him actually grow into his own. To go from Times to To Where is way too big of a leap to be convincing. The same applies to Trixie's appearance from No Second Prances (where her manipulation of Starlight caused a fallout and her near-death) to here.
   
   Because the arc was was written sporadically, exposition was required to fill in the gaps, leaving behind unrealized arcs. Quite frankly, they were way too important to be this empty.
2. For their entire lives, the changelings were raised to fight and steal the love from others. In the last five minutes, Starlight was able to verbally convince a brainwashed hive into changing their ways permanently. This isn't like what happened with both The Cutie Map or Re-Mark, where TW was partially inspired by. In the former, Fluttershy caught Starlight not practicing what she preached and outed her in front of the entire village next morning; when they realized she lied to them, they were stunned, confused, and betrayed. In the latter, Twilight showed Starlight the consequences of her actions, and those actions caused her to eventually become angry and delirious; TS had to treat her like equal to convince her to change her ways and give the Magic of Friendship another chance.

44 minutes ago, Jade Fire said:

i find that most of the people that hate on these episodes are starlight haters that are butthurt she was the star of the finale xD

1. Starlight has been one of my favorite characters dating back to S5. However, her critics had very solid arguments against her in S6, and many of her roles in S6 suck. The Crystalling, Tail, and Times were her best appearances, but they could've done far more to write her a whole lot better and make her an inclusive part of the cast.
2. "Butthurt" is an ad hominem with homophobic and misogynistic implications. You're only hurting your point and helping the OP's by using it.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Dark Qiviut

[LeafFerret 3,382]

Because it was something that was different and was going in the different direction, the problem with previous finales was that they use the exact same formula which was use the Mane 6 grouped together using overpowered rainbow magic to defeat a villain without them even attempting to stop it, this is the same case with EG movies as I refuse to watch any of that. Unfortunately all the hype that Starlight got for this episode ended after the third episode of S7 when the show decided to go back to it's old ways and not wanting to let Twilight go as the series' main character and put her as a supporting character.