S08:E12 - Marks for Effort

[Dark Qiviut 22,379]

1 minute ago, Rising Dusk said:

For me though, Starlight stole this episode with her short scenes.  In similar fashion to when she was a friendship student of Twilight's and getting left behind a lot, she's still playing second fiddle with little role in the new school.  How her bordem has led to cleaning and organizing her office over and over.  But, when she finally got a student to council, her near overzealous interest in getting to do something was so adorable.  Throwing a comfort pillow, security blanket and empathy coco without even knowing the problem yet.  Having to rein herself back in over and over to make sure she was 'listening'.  Best of all though, her slip of interest in the devious plan of Cozy and the face that came from having to rein herself in again.  Priceless.   

The whole subplot with Starlight was great. With her acting as the School's counselor, her role was bound to impact a story one day. Her disappointment, boredom, envy of her friends, and thought that she didn't even belong were quite important. Having to talk with Cozy Glow allows her to use what she learned over time as a way to guide a student who feels lost or regretful. No matter how minimal her role may be, Starlight's still important to the school's health and growth.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

If Cozy Glow turn out to be something relevant in the finale (or even better, a little evil), then i will give this ep a 9.5/10 but for now, i give it a 8/10. This ep is just funny even you dont get what characters are saying (i am talking about the early releases), and that's good, i love good old cartoons can make me giggle even i cant understand what the characters are saying.

I have 3 problems with this ep:

- Twilight get angry with CMC. That scene just irritated me  Maybe i should be happy because she takes her job seriously...

- The episode resolved too fast, i feel a bit dull.

- The episode gave us some unsettling vibes from Cozy Glow but then turned out she is a good kid and that's all. That's a bit disappointing. If they make her something relevant in the second half of the season, i will remove this negative.

Random:

- I know Starlight has some meme potential inside her, she just has to release it. Go, Starlight! Show me your memes!

- I hope Starlight and Cozy Glow can be evil master and apprentice. 

- I guess Cheerilee school is not good enough for CMC anymore. Friendship is the popular major nowaday. Look at Twilight, who mastered Friendship and look at her position right now, a castle, a private school with some funding from Canterlot (my theory). Friendship for the win.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Lambdadelta

[Jonny Music 3,400]

I personally found this episode as a heart-warming reminder of what the show is about at its core: friendship.

No matter how old I may be, I still want to learn things I may never have known before and/or refine the things I knew before, but in other perspectives.

Hence why I immensely love the overall writing by the outstanding writing team over the years.

If you disagree with anything I said here, that's more than fine. I know not many others would see it in my perspective anyway.

[Dragulia 17]

Well we finally know Spike's role, he is "Teacher's Aide".

If Twi leaves the class he is put in charge of teaching. 

This job seems, just right for him.

[GreenGreenWhirlWind 161]

I think it's a neat touch that they're going in depth about how the school works and what exactly each member does, it's not a lot, but it's definately better than nothing. Other than that i generally liked this episode, towards the ending i was expecting Cozy Glow to be a jerk who failed on purpose just to mess with the CMC, but the direction the episode actually went was a lot better. Other than that i guess don't really have much to say about this one.

[Lord Midnight Madness 1,543]

This episode was pretty good. I liked it overall and I haven't seen a CMC episode in a while so that was good.

[Buttonmash1973 1,026]

19 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Yona is her name.

-

Scoots tried to play Buckball in class... Why does that feel so in character of her?

Scoot playing Buckball was oen of the best parts

[YoshiAngemon 223]

15 hours ago, Twilight Luna said:

After Cozy failed her test and Twilight blamed the CMC for it, I was sure that Cozy was a changeling sent to drive a wedge between the CMC and the mane 6.

 

Spoiler

You sure she's not a Centaurette with the power of shapeshifting, who happens to be the niece of Lord Tirek, and daughter of his brother Scorpan?

 

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

Good episode. I knew something was up when Cozy failed. I hate seeing when the CMC get in trouble when it isn't their fault, just the way they feel so down after all the work they did. But everything happens for a reason. Glad they're tutors now. Love that incorporation. 

[The Nth Doctor 662]

Not really a fan of how they dragged Cheerilee's name through the mud for this episode though

How far we've come since Season One when the CMC were eager to learn...

[Abstract 832]

OK - I think this was a fairly lackluster episode - not bad per se, but nothing really special either. However, I have to say - I am officially won over to liking Starlight. I disliked her all throughout Season 6, and most of 7; though I was softening to her by the end of that one. But with her appearances in this season, I have to admit that I'm becoming a fan. Her character is coming together and being defined in the best of ways, really making her standout from the Twiclone she was in Season 6.

[Truffles 2,033]

2 hours ago, The Nth Doctor said:

How far we've come since Season One when the CMC were eager to learn...

Early-onset senioritis!

Ah, that takes me back...

[The Nth Doctor 662]

"Oh dragon my dragon"

Well, that's quite ominous for anyone who's read Dead Poet's Society and knows how that ends

A lot of foreshadowing going on this episode

[heavens-champion 1,905]

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 12:21 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

Don't think the apology's all that necessary. Twilight realized her mistake and showed remorse. Rewarding the CMCs with honorary diplomas and hiring them as tutors (through SG) works better, because she's acting upon her own mistake and rectifying it.

As someone who technically hasn't watched the episode but has heard about it, I really hope my opinion on Twilight won't be affected in the worst way. I do NOT want to wind up hating one of my favorite characters.

[Truffles 2,033]

1 hour ago, The Nth Doctor said:

"Oh dragon my dragon"

Well, that's quite ominous for anyone who's read Dead Poet's Society and knows how that ends

A lot of foreshadowing going on this episode

I try not to think about that.

 

On a related note, Neighsay would have absolutely exploded had he been standing in earshot of Twilight when she invited a dragon to run her class for her.

Then he would have exploded again upon seeing this:

So, to answer the question asked way back in Feeling Pinkie Keen: Yes Spike - a pony can indeed explode twice.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Truffles

[Toastypk 923]

Damnit girls I love you stop

AAAAAA

Edited June 4, 2018 by Toastypk

[Music Chart Fan 819]

Overall, I'd say that this was an okay episode. I'm not sure that there were many standout moments for me, but for most of the episode, there wasn't anything particularly bad about it, either. The biggest problem is probably Twilight's seeming to believe that the CMC deliberately set up Cozy Glow to fail, even as there isn't necessarily cause to believe that beyond a reasonable doubt, and even as Cozy Glow's test answers seem more like attempts at jokes. But that problem is soon enough resolved, and the episode comes to a nice ending with the CMC being given honorary diplomas, being congratulated by their big sisters and the other Mane Eight, and becoming friendship tutors, which seems like a good fit and which they appear to enjoy doing.

-----

What might be the biggest issue with the episode is the scene in which Twilight acts as though she simply knows that the CMC set Cozy Glow up to fail, and interrogates them as to why they did it. First off, how would Twilight have reached that conclusion? I don't think we see any overwhelming evidence that the CMC set Cozy Glow up to fail, such that any other explanation could be ruled out beyond a reasonable doubt. Twilight says that Cozy Glow told her that the CMC are her "tutors", presumably after Cozy Glow was asked about her failing test grade. But notably, Twilight never says that Cozy Glow said that the CMC taught her the wrong answers, so that may have been an even further assumption on Twilight's part. And the CMC seem genuinely shocked that Cozy Glow failed her test, and seem sincere in saying that they taught Cozy Glow the right things.

There might be a potential motivation in that the CMC have lately been trying and failing to get into the Friendship School as students. But did Twilight consider the possibility that Cozy Glow might have some reason (as was actually the case) to falsely blame the CMC for being intentionally bad tutors? What if, for example, Cozy Glow blanked out on the test, and just put random answers down, but when she was asked why she failed the test, she thought she would get in trouble, so she tried to shift the blame off of herself and onto the CMC?

And one big consideration that Twilight doesn't seem to make is the nature of Cozy Glow's wrong answers. The two examples of wrong answers that Twilight gives are "Five turtlenecks and a cheese grater" in response to "What are the six Elements of Harmony?" and "Your mom" in response to "Who is the Princess of Friendship?". Those don't sound like the kind of wrong answers that a well-meaning student would be misled into believing are correct; those sound like the kind of intentionally ridiculous wrong answers that a student would give when he/she doesn't know (or doesn't care) what the right answers are and is just trying to be funny or random.

So, again, looking at this, I don't see overwhelming evidence to conclude without a doubt that the CMC sabotaged Cozy Glow; this incident looks to me as though it needs further investigation. It seems like Twilight could have told the CMC that they're suspected of telling Cozy Glow the wrong answers, or just said that Cozy Glow told her that the CMC were giving Cozy Glow the wrong answers (if that was actually the case), rather than Twilight's apparently concluding that there's no question that they did it. Twilight could even have still told the CMC the line about staying away from her school and her students, with an additional "until this matter is resolved" or something like that. Was Twilight's acting as though the CMC definitely did it, and trying to shame them, actually an intentional hardball tactic on Twilight's part, in order to intimidate them into confessing? That doesn't strike me as something that Twilight would do.

Now, with all of that said, the CMC's names are cleared not too much later - by the next day in-universe, and within a few minutes in the episode - so it probably doesn't ultimately matter too much. It just sticks out as likely the most objectionable thing in the episode.

-----

The other line that caught my attention was Twilight's telling the CMC that "I'm afraid I'm gonna have to ask you to stay away from my school. And my students". Now the "stay away from my school" part seems simple enough to understand. Twilight is the owner or the pony in charge of the Friendship School property, so she would have the authority to tell the CMC to leave (or forcibly remove them, if necessary) if they're caught on the school grounds again.

The more complicated matter is the "stay away from my students" part. We see in the episode that students of the Friendship School are not restricted to staying only on the school grounds. One of Cozy Glow's homework assignments is to do something nice for three residents of Ponyville, and Cozy Glow sees the CMC to study or do homework several times without getting in any apparent trouble with the school. So would the CMC be restricted from going anywhere in Ponyville where Friendship School students are, or anywhere students could possibly go? Would Twilight monitor students when they leave school grounds to make sure that the CMC stay away from all of them? Or would Twilight only find out if, say, a student reported to her that the CMC tried to approach or talk to him/her off of school grounds?

And if the CMC were caught too close to one of the students off of school grounds, what would Twilight do about that, and what would she have the authority to do? I wouldn't think that Twilight would have the authority just as headmare of the Friendship School to punish or restrict the movement of the CMC off of school grounds. But maybe Twilight would have the legal/political authority as a princess to order the CMC to stay away from her students, and to punish them for violating that order. But is there any check on that power? Is there any due process or ability to appeal such an order before it's made and enforced?

Now I wouldn't expect the CMC to try to violate Twilight's request, and I would think that Twilight would respect the CMC's good-faith effort to honor her request (rather than, say, trying to catch and punish the CMC on a technicality). I just couldn't help wondering, when I heard that statement, about how the Friendship School works and about what the limits of Twilight's authority are.

-----

Now here are my other miscellaneous observations:

After the CMC try to sit in on Twilight's class, she tells them "You need Cheerilee's classes, not mine. Hurry up. You don't want late marks on your permanent record". But in the scene just after that, Apple Bloom is back at the farm and Applejack asks her "Aren't you supposed to be on harvest duty right now?". So is Apple Bloom supposed to be in school or on harvest duty? How big of a time jump is there supposed to be between those two scenes? Is the second scene supposed to be taking place hours later, after Apple Bloom had already gone to school for the day? Then again, the passage of time in the whole episode seems a little fuzzy.

When the CMC first see Cozy Glow crying under a tree near the clubhouse, Sweetie Belle's immediate reaction is "Aww, she looks so sad. We better go see what's wrong", whereas my first reaction would be "Who is that, and what is she doing out here on the Apple family's property?".

So, for Cozy Glow's homework, she was given three pictures of ponies in Ponyville and told to "do something nice for each of them". But then Cozy Glow says that she doesn't know anything about them. Were students told the names of the ponies in the pictures, or where they could be found in Ponyville, or the things that they generally do with which they could use help? At least some of the students at the Friendship School aren't longtime residents of Ponyville, so are they expected to find these ponies and help them just on the basis of single pictures?

Also, did these pictured ponies agree to having students of the Friendship School try to do something nice for them ahead of time? I might think that not everyone in Ponyville would necessarily want socially awkward students trying to find and help them without any warning. And do these pictured ponies report back to the Friendship School on whether and how students did something nice for them? Or is this homework assignment essentially working on the honor system of students truthfully telling the teacher about the nice things they did?

Why does Starlight have an armoire full of what appears to be jars and bottles in her guidance counselor's office? Is the idea that she's handing out medicine or potions to teenage students for psychiatric problems, even as she has no apparent medical training or certification?

Starlight's meme face has been making the rounds, but Cozy Glow makes a pretty similar face earlier in the episode, and that has seemed to receive essentially no attention.

After Cozy Glow describes her plan to try to get the CMC accepted as students at the Friendship School, she says "I guess I still have a lot to learn about friendship", and Starlight replies "Actually, I think you're doing all right. Sure, that was a really, really bad way to try to help your friends, but what matters is you wanted to", which I find kind of questionable. If "what matters is you wanted to [help your friends]", does that imply that the actual (or reasonably predicted) results of her actions don't matter? If Cozy Glow (supposedly) wanted to help her friends, but she then tried to do that in "a really, really bad way", and the end result is that she demonstrably made things worse for her friends, is it really appropriate to describe that as "doing all right"? Will anything be done to change Cozy Glow's actions or plans for action so that she doesn't harm her friends in the future, even if those actions are done or planned in the name of helping her friends? I'm not so sure that this is good counseling being done here, although in this particular case, it may not end up mattering.

Twilight tells the CMC that "I think Starlight has a place for you at my school after all", and has Starlight offer to make the CMC friendship tutors on staff, rather than Twilight just saying that herself. I jokingly wondered if that's what Twilight meant by "And that's why this school needs you as our guidance counselor" - that Twilight just wants Starlight to handle recruitment/hiring of staff (which we've seen done this one time so far), rather than handling it herself.

I wonder what the age difference is between the CMC and at least some of the students at the school, and whether that age difference could lead to older students not necessarily respecting the CMC as tutors. But that potential problem could be avoided if the CMC only tutored students close to their age or younger.

Finally, the CMC seemed to originally want to get into the Friendship School as students because they wanted to get out of going to school with Miss Cheerilee, and the Friendship School looked like more fun. But now the CMC seem to have tutoring duties in addition to still having to attend school with Miss Cheerilee (unless being "friendship tutors on staff" is a full-time thing, although that doesn't seem to be the case for the teachers, so I wouldn't expect it to be the case for the tutors either). But the CMC do say that tutoring is fun, maybe even more so than attending the Friendship School would be, so at least they have something to work forward to doing when not in school themselves.

[gingerninja666 487]

1 hour ago, Music Chart Fan said:

 Cozy Glow describes her plan to try to get the CMC accepted as students at the Friendship School, she says "I guess I still have a lot to learn about friendship", and Starlight replies "Actually, I think you're doing all right. Sure, that was a really, really bad way to try to help your friends, but what matters is you wanted to", which I find kind of questionable. If "what matters is you wanted to [help your friends]", does that imply that the actual (or reasonably predicted) results of her actions don't matter? If Cozy Glow (supposedly) wanted to help her friends, but she then tried to do that in "a really, really bad way", and the end result is that she demonstrably made things worse for her friends, is it really appropriate to describe that as "doing all right"? Will anything be done to change Cozy Glow's actions or plans for action so that she doesn't harm her friends in the future, even if those actions are done or planned in the name of helping her friends? I'm not so sure that this is good counseling being done here, although in this particular case, it may not end up mattering.

Starlight admitted it was a bad way to help her friends. I think she was just trying to tell cozy that she was on the right track, and taking proactive steps to help your friends is a good thing. Even if this particular plan is bad, she shouldn't be discouraged from trying to do nice things for them in the future. In Star's mind, Cozy was motivated for nigh entirely alturistic reasons. Meaning that her methods are whack, but she's still well on her way to understanding what friendship is all about. Which is leagues better than how she was at the start of the story.

 

"You're doing alright," to me communicates not that Cozy has nothing to learn, just that she's not as off the mark as she might think.

Edited June 4, 2018 by gingerninja666

[Luminance 2,186]

Starlight's listening face. The animators are so proud right now. This is all I'll ever remember in season 8.

[YoshiAngemon 223]

On 6/3/2018 at 1:24 AM, Lambdadelta said:

- I guess Cheerilee school is not good enough for CMC anymore. Friendship is the popular major nowaday. Look at Twilight, who mastered Friendship and look at her position right now, a castle, a private school with some funding from Canterlot (my theory). Friendship for the win.

Maybe because Cheerilee's School is a PONIES-ONLY School, funded by the EEA, with generous donations from Filthy Rich. Was Diamond Tiara REALLY written out of the show when the CMCs finally got their Cutie Marks?

[KH7672 1,604]

7 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Starlight's meme face has been making the rounds, but Cozy Glow makes a pretty similar face earlier in the episode, and that has seemed to receive essentially no attention.

Ah so you would like a lesson on what qualifies as a "meme face" or "faic" very well but I shall add a third entry for comparison as well:

1. Starlight's-

2. Cozy's (apologies for the marks I had to physically screencap this on my phone)-

And finally Fluttershy's (from "Make New Friends but Keep Discord")-

So the first and foremost secret to the perfect "faic" is the element of surprise; the suddenness of it's appearance. That is immediately why Cozy's does not get attention, because the context is all there why she is making such a face. Oh sure it's cute and so is she but the context is clear she is thinking real hard and as such scrunches up her cheeks. Fluttershy and Starlight's caught the viewer off guard. Fluttershy is telling a boring story but ends by ending it with a "faic" that story becomes perfectly memorable and meme-able to work with any awkward moment or even when your lips are sealed (hence the tag on ). Starlight's literally comes out of nowhere and coupled with robot delivery makes it extremely memorable.

Lack of context is one of the key reasons a "faic" will take off. Cozy's context makes it difficult-not impossible-to create a meme from. The best it is is having her think deeply about what she's looking at but there's not much more to it. Fluttershy's on the other hand is perfectly malluable to fit any situation because at how simple and yet complex her "faic" is. This is the face of "awkward silence" or "screaming internally." The wide eyes and pinched cheeks give the perfect appeal of cute and innocent to be hyper exaggerated or twisted into any reaction to an opposing out of context situation. All of these reasons also apply to Starlight's "faic" however there is one more component to a perfect "meme face"- the adorable ugliness of it.

This goes back to the early days of the show when Twilight reigned supreme as the "faic" queen because most episodes involved her reacting to other character and as such would give her not so flattering faces to make. That is where Starlight has an advantage over Fluttershy. Fluttershy's is cute and perfectly her but that's about it. Starlight has the straight eyebrows and dilated pupils with add a harshness to the face. A kind of face that is relateable in reality (relatability can also effect the meme potential of a face but not necessarily) and can be twisted to fit that narritive. The straight eyebrows do sell the "faic" appeal the best though because the emotion becomes very vague and easily malleable. Is she mad? Is she firmly content? Is she fighting depression with some coff-I meam cocoa? Is she feigning ignorance confidently? Is she disappointed in you (with just a little shifting of her eyesight easily because of the white background)? The face is off-putting yet charming in its appearance and thus makes it much easier to use in any context and more.

I hope you enjoyed this lesson, now feel free to go back to discussing the actual episode. Sorry for taking up your time with this diversion.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

4 hours ago, YoshiAngemon said:

Was Diamond Tiara REALLY written out of the show when the CMCs finally got their Cutie Marks?

Instead of a Diamond Tiara episode with Babs Seed's comeback, they will keep release more 'cool' friends for CMC. 

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

I’ve been seeing a lot of people say that Twilight acted out of character by just assuming the CMC’s were responsible for Cozy Glow’s test answers. Except that Cozy is the one who told Twilight the CMC’s were her tutors, and she probably also told Twilight they were the ones who taught her the wrong answers. She was trying to convince Twilight they all needed to learn about friendship, after all. This feels like yet another example of people jumping to conclusions (how ironic) because episode time limits prevent every single little detail from being spelled out for them, and for some reason they don’t just stop and think for a reasonable answer.

Anyways...

Yet another outstanding episode for the season, if the second half holds up to the same high standard this will easily be my new favorite season. Anyone else feel like Cozy Glow is a bit familiar? From the awkward laugh to questionable thinking and a complete misunderstanding of friendship, she’s really reminding me of someone...

In a completely, totally unrelated topic, watching Starlight struggle between being a guidance councilor and being, well, herself was hilarious, and is exactly what I was hoping to see from her in her new role. Here’s hoping we get even more moments like this.

 

 

[ImpctR 155]

I liked Surf and/or turf because of Mount Eris and the hyppos, so CMCs in that was fine by me. I couldn't be bothered for another CMC episode so soon. There were some nice things but not much to say about the episode.

Nice to see Spike in his new form now getting acknowledged by all. Particularly the way the CMCs wanted to get in the school was a bit childish for them perhaps as well. Once again they were back in the barn and 'Repeaty Belle' was funny a little.

Of course, it was nice to see Bon Bon and she even talked but I would have preferred this to be Lyra instead.

The rest with this filly didn't impress me, I get why it was nice and all but I don't really care. In the end it was my thought, 'Why don't the CMCs become some lesser teachers?" Since they were not new to friendship. Because AJ and Rainbow Dash are the sports teachers, some of the rest subjects the Mane 6 teach could be seen as boring or too much, like RD didn't want to spend time teaching, CMCs are a chance some of the Mane 6 to have some time off.

Starlight and the new filly, was an okay scene. I liked how the filly had written 'your mom' for teacher or whatever the question to that answer was lmao. So I dont know if CMCs becoming tutors is a big topic for the show but it felt so sudden and rushed, like in a moment all their spending school time with Cheerilee for seasons has been scratched off with a quick 1/4 of an episode resolution? 

Oh and the 'pleeeeease' faces dont impress anymore.  Not more to say 4/5 for this.

[MAIKUN 262]

I never wanna say this but: Cozy Glow could be the next Diamond Tiara.....