S09:E01+E02 - The Beginning of the End

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

6 hours ago, Truffles said:

I enjoyed the premiere well enough - it's a fun romp that works better if you don't look too closely at the details. Some aspects didn't sit well with me, however:

Why didn't the Crystal Heart keep Sombra out? I thought it provides a shield against all dark magic trying to entire the kingdom? While others have offered explanations of his now being corporeal, I don't feel like that would have made much difference since he reached that level by the end of "TCE" in S3 and he was destroyed by the Heart anyway. A better explanation can be made in that Grogar's magic is much more powerful than anything the Crystal Heart can stop, and thus Sombra could simply be teleported into the middle of the kingdom. It would make some sense since Grogar was able to teleport Tirek and Cozy out of Tartarus with ease.

That still doesn't explain these dark magic clouds, however:

That is the kind of magic attack the Crystal Heart is designed to prevent. So I'm still not entirely comfortable with my theory. I would have preferred some exposition where Grogar said he can teleport anyone, anywhere, and Sombra would have been teleported right next to the Heart - allowing him direct access to damage it before encircling the kingdom with dark magic.

 

Next I wondered why the Tree of Harmony didn't try to protect itself? It was capable of doing so in "The Mean 6" but it didn't even try to put up a fight here. I suppose Sombra did have the element of surprise, and it's also possible it was drained after helping the Mane 6 disintegrate him in part 1. But the ease at which evil was able to overcome what are supposedly major obstacles was not particularly satisfying.

 

Also, I had expected there to be a little more of a tie-in with Sombra's defeat back in S3. He didn't really acknowledge what happened the last time, either due to his foppish attitude or because he was too embarrassed to admit the details of his previous two defeats. While there might be some good reason for it, it also wasn't particularly satisfying. He even  inexplicably (apparently) left Spike's statue standing - which one would think would be a major target for him to dispose of.

 

Finally, Sombra's personality wasn't anything like I expected him to be. As @SasQ said, Sombra reminded me nothing more than an evil version of Blueblood, with a little bit of cunning thrown in that he tricked the Mane 6 into revealing the location of the ToH. S3 Sombra was scary and he h0ad presence. This guy doesn't seem like someone who the citizens of his kingdom would refuse to remember as to what it was like under his rule.

It's kind of funny he felt he had to trick the mane 6 into revealing the location of the Tree. If he had just listened to Grogar and worked as a team, he could have learned that from Chrysalis.

 

Other minor things would have helped move me from the "like" to "love" category for this 2-parter:

I feel like the episode could have opened with a storybook exposition explaining who Grogar was and how he fits into the overall scheme of history. He doesn't seem to be following quite the narrative set by G1 Grogar, since this one is far more ancient.

The pacing is a bit off, rushed in part 1 before settling into a more comfortable stride in part 2. I liked the twist in how Sombra tricked the Mane 6, but having it required the Empire's conquest to be rushed (and led to the problems listed above) and just felt wonky overall.

What's up with Cadance in this scene:

This was right after Sombra was disintegrated, and it's not clear why she still thinks he's around, only to realize she was wrong. Just an odd scene.

 

I did enjoy a bunch of parts of this episode, however:

The Discord "death" scene got to me - and subsequently fooled me.

There was a nice Easter Egg with a Spike toy "horse" for Flurry. She seems to like dragons in general, though, as she apparently has replaced her Whammy with an orange dragon:

 

The distraction the Mane 6 used to defeat Sombra (initially) gave me a Guardians of the Galaxy vibe. I almost expected Twilight to refer to Sombra as "turdblossom."
But does that make Spike the new Rocket?

Also, Spike can add freeing Cadance, Shining, and Flurry to his list of Times He's Saved the Crystal Empire.

Speaking of the way he saved them, it's interesting that even though Sombra's dark crystals may be impervious to magic, they apparently are very susceptible to dragonfire since Spike only had to briefly breathe on them to make them weak enough for the ponies to break free. I guess he never imagined ponies and dragons could ever be friends? (Again, though - he saw Spike back in S3 - you'd think he'd plan ahead for this.) Twilight should double her efforts to fully ally with Ember and the other dragons seeing how there's more trouble ahead for Equestria if all this magic really is useless against dragonfire.

 

 

Wow, good catch! I totally forgot about that detail in the series premiere. Heck, the Mane 6 even figured out that believing in themselves made it possible for the stones to repair and put themselves all back together.

 

 

 

12

The Crystal heart was never said to just naturally repel King Sombra or dark magic in general, what it does do is repel the magic of the frozen north. It only stops Sombra when the ponies activate it, the reason why it didn't stop him when Cadence activated it was because only she did it and not the whole empire. Also the reason Sombra couldn't get in in s3 was because of Cadence, not the heart

The Tree of Harmony only protected itself because the mean 6 were basically setting it off that something wasn't right and the elements destroyed them as they were fakes. This was a sneak attack from Sombra that it didn't predict.

Sombra has nop real reason here to bring up his prior defeat. It would just make him look bad as last time he was just a rage filled monster that wanted his power back, here he is fully restored and believes he can do it now. It makes sense he wouldn't mention it if the excuse is actually pretty solid.

Grogars backstory being told to the villains is more unique than another storybook opening imo, we have gotten that twice in Fim now and once in EQG.

Again i do not agree with part 1 being "rushed" that would imply the writers unintenionally made things happen too quickly in a way that makes no sense or hi incoherant, but the quick nature of the plot mostly only happens during Sombra taking the empire and thenmlosing, which makes sense as that was his entire plan Before thee Sombra attacking the Empire part of the episode it flows pretty naturally and slowly.

Cadence thought Sombra was still around because she didn't see the mane 6 disintegrate him yet, and he literally kidnapped and muzzled her baby so I am sure she was ready to attack him herself. It is actually a really nice detail imo because it shows mama bear being ready to attack, just like earlier when he was holding Flurry

 

 

After watching the episode a couple dozen more times.
Yeah... I love Sombra here, he isn't as menacing sure. But he is the perfect embodiment of an MLP villain to me. He is dark and dangerous in contrast to the shows deceptively happy looking shell, he is over the top and cocky while still being intelligent and powerful, and while he wasn't as "scary" I still think his "You should be" line to Twilight is his most chills-inducing line yet, his voice was even much deeper in that moment than the rest of the episode. He helped make the episode for me as well as the other villains.

[Senko 459]

Ookkkk I'm probably going to need to think about this (been really busy with work and only now noticed 3 new episodes and an EG special). Still this 2 parter really does put Celestia's behaivour over the past 8 seasons in a different light. After a thousand years of protecting Equestria she was done and she finally had an heir who seemed capable of passing her tests so she always LET herself be defeated to see if her hope of a replacement could handle it. I'm really not sure how i feel about this . . .

[CypherHoof 26,482]

1 hour ago, Senko said:

Ookkkk I'm probably going to need to think about this (been really busy with work and only now noticed 3 new episodes and an EG special).

Still haven't managed to find the latter; there is a copy on youtube but it is horribly chopped up and unwatchable. hoping applegeek will do a react to it

1 hour ago, Senko said:

Still this 2 parter really does put Celestia's behaivour over the past 8 seasons in a different light. After a thousand years of protecting Equestria she was done and she finally had an heir who seemed capable of passing her tests so she always LET herself be defeated to see if her hope of a replacement could handle it.

Was stated in some of the comics too - to Spike, for example.

I find it amusing that discord effectively did the same thing in this episode though

1 hour ago, Senko said:

I'm really not sure how i feel about this . . .

Read that in the appropriate voice from fame and misfortune...

[Senko 459]

I'm not sure about the legality so all I'll say is I found the EG special on a site that shows 2 unskippable adds every five minutes when your watching it online which may be of help or it may not depending on if you know the site I'm refering too. Well that and it was a pain to watch with those constant interruptions.

I really need to resume reading those too much to do, too little time.

Discord was interesting here and it is in character for him. I did like that he was in the episode but not using his obviously overhwelming power (and that's another thing which makes me suspect Celestia of throwing the fights she was in recently).

I am going to be thinking about these episodes for awhile and my final reaction may not even be decided till the season finale to be honest. Still there was a lot here to think about, a lot. For one thing is the tree of harmony dead after it got revealed as having a mind last season or was that just a shell with the mind relocated to a shiny new home .  . .

[Steve Piranha 29,419]

Why doesn’t anyone is talking about McFlurry NOT messing around tho 

[Senko 459]

I said when she first showed up that she'd grow up to be the princess of destruction. Though back then her magic was pink with a gold core and this is all gold I wonder if she's gotten greater control or is still supressed by that spell?

Edited April 8, 2019 by Senko

[Metemponychosis 1,259]

7 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

I'm not even a massive Discord fan generally, I just thought he was really well done here.

Fair enough. I don't disagree that it was well done, if not for my problem with the use of the episode's time.

7 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

As long as the tree existed and was giving them things, they had reason to hope. When they recieved the box there was this sense of optimism. The box was a mystery, but it was something to work towards. In their darkest hour they could think about the box and hoped it contained the answers they needed. The cutie map is the tree's will guiding them to wherever they're needed, and they believe that the tree picked them for a reason.

You're right, they learned this in episode 1. That was what Discord was saying. They'd lost sight of that. They knew all this once, but over the years the tree and ofshoots of it's power became more and more embroiled in their lives. It's not just that they lost the elements. The lost the thing powering the elements too. I guess I just saw them needing to be reminded of an early lesson they lost sight of to be appropriate for the final season.

But it is AGAIN. And you're still ignoring that they didn't have a clue what that thing was. No to mention that the only reason that they got the last key as dumb luck. They weren't even working towards getting those keys. They just came to them and the characters didn't even know that they had the keys. The map only appeared after they had defeated Tyrek, and even if I would agree that your argument is sound (which I kind of do, because it's about more about opinion, liking or disliking), the cartoon is still repeating a theme, over and over. There are better things it could be doing.

Come on. It's not the first time characters have relearned lessons.

With all respect, we're talking past each other now. And the more I talk about this episode, the worse it gets. So I'm going to stop.

[Hierok 11,831]

Grogar was epic, Discord was amazing, but Sombra's voice was not fitting at all. It wasn't scary and it was nothing like the voice in s3. But overall a very good episode. 

[Truffles 2,033]

9 hours ago, RyanMahaffe said:

The Crystal heart was never said to just naturally repel King Sombra or dark magic in general, what it does do is repel the magic of the frozen north. It only stops Sombra when the ponies activate it, the reason why it didn't stop him when Cadence activated it was because only she did it and not the whole empire. Also the reason Sombra couldn't get in in s3 was because of Cadence, not the heart

I guess I was left with that impression because of how many times the princesses (and soon to be princess Twilight) said the Heart protects the Empire - meaning threats in many forms - even if it wasn't explicitly stated it would prevent Sombra or any other evil alicorn from invading. I admit, though, after just now rewatching the flashback Celestia showed Twilight at the beginning of "TCEpt1," it also didn't show him doing anything special to take over the first time. I still find it unsatisfying as to how easy this kingdom fell to him. No sieges, no subterfuge - just do a smash-n-grab and you're the new ruler.

9 hours ago, RyanMahaffe said:

Again i do not agree with part 1 being "rushed" that would imply the writers unintenionally made things happen too quickly in a way that makes no sense or hi incoherant, but the quick nature of the plot mostly only happens during Sombra taking the empire and thenmlosing, which makes sense as that was his entire plan Before thee Sombra attacking the Empire part of the episode it flows pretty naturally and slowly.

All I can say is the last half of part one left my head spinning on the initial viewing. It reminded me too much of new Dr. Who where most of the stories do the same thing. I've always been more of a fan of classic Who where the stories are slower paced, allowing secondary characters to develop and letting the mystery of the episode reveal itself more gradually over time. It's unfortunate new Who is limited to 1-hour episodes instead of the serial format of the old show.

 

6 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

Why doesn’t anyone is talking about McFlurry NOT messing around tho 

I was going to bring that up, but my initial comments were long-winded enough (and I had too many things to say to all keep in my head as it was, lol) so I decided to let it drop.

I am amused as to how much she seemed to enjoy zapping the floor in front of Sombra's minions - who are actually her future subjects so it's good she didn't decide to attack them directly. XD

And finally there's Spike standing there, satisfied with the outcome, and even more amusing is the change in his expression during the last few frames where he seems to be thinking, "Now there's a ruler who isn't afraid to wield her raw power." XD

[Steve Piranha 29,419]

44 minutes ago, Truffles said:

.

 

I was going to bring that up, but my initial comments were long-winded enough (and I had too many things to say to all keep in my head as it was, lol) so I decided to let it drop.

I am amused as to how much she seemed to enjoy zapping the floor in front of Sombra's minions - who are actually her future subjects so it's good she didn't decide to attack them directly. XD

 

XD, she’s probably going to be the Princess of Evil Bane or some shit, because she seems to be a little TOO eager to fight . She also displayed high degree of intelligence for her age once again, probably taken from her aunt 

[Alex2002ita 60]

I don't know if someone noticed yet, but the order in which Discord names the mane6 in his speech it's the same of when he corrupted them in the premiere of season 2

This is an awesome detail

[DonMaguz 1,023]

1 hour ago, Alex2002ita said:

I don't know if someone noticed yet, but the order in which Discord names the mane6 in his speech it's the same of when he corrupted them in the premiere of season 2

This is an awesome detail

AJ was first then, not Fluttershy.

[Jonny Music 3,400]

This Season Premiere is by far one of my top favourites, and it could possibly be one of the top 3 (if not #1) of the best season premieres of the entire show!

I'm glad they are raising the stakes to make this season the best one it can possibly be. Especially with Grogar (a throwback from G1) being revealed to be the final antagonist of the series.

I have a really good feeling the final season will turn out great.

[Misty Shadow 7,845]

19 hours ago, RyanMahaffe said:

The Crystal heart was never said to just naturally repel King Sombra or dark magic in general, what it does do is repel the magic of the frozen north. It only stops Sombra when the ponies activate it, the reason why it didn't stop him when Cadence activated it was because only she did it and not the whole empire. Also the reason Sombra couldn't get in in s3 was because of Cadence, not the heart

Good point, Sombra was actually not even defeated because of the heart itself either. It was the light and love that Cadence and the crystal ponies poured into the heart that dispelled him into the ether, since you can't make a shadow glow with light from the inside. This is supported by Sombra still needing to be defeated by the elements despite the heart being put back in place. 

[Senko 459]

Just now, CloudMistDragon said:

Good point, Sombra was actually not even defeated because of the heart itself either. It was the light and love that Cadence and the crystal ponies poured into the heart that dispelled him into the ether, since you can't make a shadow glow with light from the inside. This is supported by Sombra still needing to be defeated by the elements despite the heart being put back in place. 

I vaguely recall in the comics the heart did repell him until he was redeemed. Which is odd given how different the show is where as you point out it was the outpouring of love that drove him off and not the heart itself.

[Misty Shadow 7,845]

Just now, Senko said:

I vaguely recall in the comics the heart did repell him until he was redeemed. Which is odd given how different the show is where as you point out it was the outpouring of love that drove him off and not the heart itself.

That's true...but this premiere completely threw comic canon out the window and proved that the comics take place in a parallel universe. XD That doesn't mean there won't be anything inspired by the comics later on, like what happened in Season 7, but right now, we just have to watch and wait. 

[Music Chart Fan 819]

Overall, I just feel kind of "meh" about these episodes. There are amusing/entertaining moments here and there, such as Rainbow's eagerness to be the one to enter everyone's dreams, or how Starlight's ploy to get Twilight to calm down almost appears to work before Twilight rejects it. But then there are also a lot of moments that are probably supposed to be emotionally impactful, but just come and go with little to no impact on me, and I don't like, for example, the repetition of the trope where the heroes and the villain take turns just standing around when the other monologues or whatever. I'll talk below in more detail about a few issues I have with these episodes. I feel like Twilight's fretting, freaking out, and hyperventilating are being taken too far. But at the same time, I really don't buy into the confidence that everyone else has that the Mane Seven are ready to lead Equestria, either. And I think that skepticism is validated by what I see as the Mane Six's astoundingly terrible judgement in the crucial aftermath of Sombra's incapacitation of the Tree of Harmony, when he's just starting to enslave people and accumulate power.

-----

First, it feels to me like Twilight's fretting, freaking out, and hyperventilating are being dialed up too much. I can't help thinking that, in comparison to these episodes, Twilight seemed more composed, clearheaded, and even leader-like in "Princess Twilight Sparkle" - way back at the beginning of Season 4, five seasons ago. That was at a time when Princesses Celestia and Luna were missing (and, for all anyone knew, perhaps gone for good), and Twilight was acting as the only princess in authority. Twilight was still nervous, but she was able to overcome that in order to assess the situation and act decisively. In these episodes, though, Twilight repeatedly screams, makes faces, and breathes into a paper bag; she seems unable to articulate her concerns such that anyone else will take them seriously; and she's being pressured and dragged into assenting to what the others want to do.

One problem here is that it's never specified what exactly Celestia and Luna are retiring from, and what the Mane Seven would be expected to do in taking Celestia's and Luna's place. There's more to Celestia's and Luna's "jobs" than just protecting Equestria from big bad villains. At one point, Rainbow asks if the Mane Seven will get all of Celestia's and Luna's powers, and calls dibs on showing up in everypony's dreams, but Rainbow is never answered about those things. Will Celestia and Luna in "retirement" still raise the sun and moon? Will Luna still oversee and intervene in Equestrians' dreams? Will Celestia still act as a formal or informal ambassador for Equestria? Furthermore, how large of a government do Celestia and Luna currently oversee, and how much power does it wield? How many of the appointments, and how much of the decision-making, is made by Celestia and Luna themselves? To what extent are Celestia and Luna held responsible for the decisions and actions that the government takes? Getting more information on things like these would help to clarify how justified Twilight is in not feeling ready to (co-)lead Equestria.

Another issue I have is that I don't find the others' confidence in the Mane Seven's ability to lead Equestria particularly convincing, and I don't find their attempts to try to reassure Twilight about that particularly convincing, either. For example, Applejack says that the Mane Seven are "not a bad choice" to take over for Celestia and Luna because "we always have Equestria's best interests at heart". But that doesn't, in itself, mean that they'll do a good job. One could have Equestria's best interests at heart, but do an utterly incompetent job, or even be actively harmful in attempting to do the job. Besides, I'm sure that there are many Equestrians who would have Equestria's best interests at heart; that doesn't seem to me like a particularly exceptional or distinguishing factor.

Or when Twilight, in panicked fashion, says that "there's gotta be a guide or a rulebook!", Luna responds that "the friendship journal you wrote yourselves is a better guide than any we could provide". But doesn't the friendship journal, by and large, contain lessons that were learned about how to lead one's personal life, or how to handle one's personal friendships? I wouldn't see that as a guide for the responsibilities of ruling Equestria, and how to handle them.

I could also see cause for concern in how running the School of Friendship has gone for the Mane Eight thus far. Cozy Glow, as a student at the school, became Twilight's personal assistant and "right-hoof pony", all while corresponding with Tirek and scheming to drain Equestria's magic in order to take over. And Twilight (and the rest of the Mane Eight) apparently had no idea that all of this was happening right under everyone's noses. If Twilight & Co. become the new rulers of Equestria, what would they do to prevent the next villain from doing something similar - ingratiating him/herself with them while obtaining valuable information and positioning him/herself in the government to do a power grab, inflict major damage on Equestria, etc.?

So the thing is that, at least in the absence of clarifying information, I would probably take Twilight's side - that she and the Mane Seven aren't ready to take Celestia's and Luna's place, especially in a matter of days - over that of everyone else, who seem dismissive of Twilight's concerns and have little or no apparent concern of their own. I just wish that the likely legitimate concerns of Twilight could be communicated more effectively - such that they would be taken seriously - or channeled into more productive action, rather than Twilight's fretting and freaking out and hyperventilating, just to be dragged into going along anyway.

-----

Next, I want to talk about how the Mane Six acted in the crucial aftermath of Sombra's incapacitation of the Tree of Harmony, when Sombra was just starting to enslave people and accumulate power. After the Mane Six observe that the residents of Ponyville are enslaved, and the Mane Six can't think of any immediate way to stop them, Pinkie points out that the Everfree Forest is growing out of control into Ponyville. So Twilight says "Even if we figure out how to defeat Sombra and bring everypony back to Ponyville, if we don't stop the forest, there won't be a Ponyville to come back to!". And therefore, the Mane Six grab gardening tools and decide to try to stop the Everfree Forest from growing into the buildings and physical infrastructure of Ponyville.

But it certainly seems to me that they have their priorities backwards. Shouldn't their first priorities be to try to stop Sombra from enslaving anyone else, and to try to free the enslaved residents of Ponyville? Saving the buildings and physical infrastructure of Ponyville would be nice, but that seems less important than saving actual people and stopping Sombra from just doing whatever he wants. And this occurs right after the Mane Six were devastated to see their families and friends enslaved and doing Sombra's bidding. I might have thought that that would motivate the Mane Six to want to stop Sombra and free their families and friends.

If the argument is that none of the Mane Six have any ideas of how to stop Sombra, then they could start with observing what Sombra is doing and plans to do, and at least trying to stop that. Enslaved Starlight said right to Twilight that "We must lay siege to Canterlot", and it would probably be fairly easy to observe that that's where all the enslaved residents of Ponyville are going. And later in the episode, Twilight teleports the Mane Six from Ponyville to Canterlot without any apparent issue. So why couldn't Twilight teleport the Mane Six ahead to Canterlot and warn Celestia and Luna, the royal guard, the Wonderbolts, and/or any other capable people to prepare for an incoming invasion by Sombra and his army of enslaved Ponyville residents? And after that, perhaps Twilight, Rainbow, and/or others could teleport/fly/travel ahead to other cities in Equestria to warn them, in case Sombra can't be stopped at Canterlot. With the relatively slow pace at which the enslaved ponies of Ponyville are walking to Canterlot, there might be a fair amount of time to do that, and Twilight and/or Rainbow might even be able to return in time to assist in the defense of Canterlot.

But instead of doing anything like this, the Mane Six, in a collective act of astoundingly terrible judgement, spend hours futilely fighting the outgrowth of the Everfree Forest - by themselves, and making no progress toward stopping it - while doing nothing to stop (or even slow down) Sombra and doing nothing to warn anyone else that he's back. So what's the plan for how to succeed here? If they've spent hours trying and failing to stop the outgrowth of the Everfree Forest, are any of them thinking of anything different to try to do? More importantly, during these hours, did any of the Mane Six think "What is Sombra doing right now? What are the enslaved residents of Ponyville doing right now?"? If Celestia, Luna, and Starswirl hadn't miraculously appeared, would the Mane Six have just fruitlessly continued to fight the Everfree Forest until they passed out from exhaustion, while Sombra just carried out his plans unimpeded by them?

Near the end of the episode, Celestia states that "a good leader knows when to ask for help, but a great leader has the courage to admit when they've made a mistake and the strength to make it right". And that's fine and all, but we could also say that good leaders should have a certain minimum competence at handling emergencies, especially when time is of the essence. More specifically, it could be argued that good leaders ought to be able to triage particularly catastrophic situations; to assess and prioritize multiple simultaneous crises; and to act effectively to prevent smaller, more manageable crises from growing into large ones that could spin out of control. But instead, the Mane Six exhibited tunnel vision on a crisis of lower importance while doing nothing about crises of higher importance. And, to add insult to injury, all of the Mane Six except Twilight were essentially totally confident that they're ready to lead Equestria. So the Mane Six's handling of this whole situation does not convince me that they've "definitely got this", as Twilight was pushed into saying.

-----

Now here are some other larger observations I had about these episodes.

Luna tells the Mane Seven that "Equestria is currently enjoying its longest period of harmony in recent years", and Celestia says that it's all thanks to Twilight and her friends. We might think that the events of the show - including all the battles with villains, the times when Celestia and Luna themselves were captured or incapacitated, the times when Equestria was nearly destroyed, etc. - have occurred "in recent years", especially from the point of view of Celestia and Luna, who have lived for well over 1000 years. So if the time period of the show is considered a "long period of harmony", what was Equestria like before the Mane Six became the Elements of Harmony?

If Grogar has spent millenia biding his time and waiting for the perfect opportunity to seize control of Equestria, why is now the perfect time - when Celestia and Luna are both around and have their powers, Discord is free and (nominally) on the "good" side, and the Mane Six are the Elements of Harmony? Was there not a more opportune time back before the events of the show - before the Mane Six became the Elements, when Luna was banished to the moon, when Discord was still a stone statue (and not turned to "good"), and Celestia was alone in ruling Equestria? Or what about other times during the period of the show when villains were wrecking havoc and had incapacitated some or most of the main protectors of Equestria?

It was kind of funny to see Starlight "trick" Twilight into telling her the same reassuring words that everyone else is telling Twilight, just to have that ploy fail because Twilight makes a (not necessarily wrong) point that "running a school and running a country are two very different things". But, the way I see it, I don't just believe everyone else's trite reassuring rhetoric about how the Mane Seven are ready to run Equestria, and similarly, I don't just believe Twilight's trite reassuring rhetoric about how Starlight is ready to run the school, either. I almost wish that, when Starlight said in panicked fashion that she's not ready to run the school, Twilight replied "You know what? You're right. If you don't feel ready to run the school, then I shouldn't pressure you into doing so against your own judgement. That's what I've been trying to say - that if I don't feel ready to lead Equestria, then I shouldn't be pressured into doing so against my own judgement, either. So it looks like we can both agree that it's better for everyone if I just stay here and continue to run the school".

So when King Sombra returns and invades the Crystal Empire and starts enslaving residents, is there just nothing that Cadance and Shining Armor and all their guards can do about it, other than sending Twilight a letter saying that they need her and her friends to defeat him? I also can't help wondering why the Crystal Heart apparently didn't stop any of this from happening. When the Crystal Heart was restored in "The Crystal Empire", it expelled Sombra, his magic, and any physical results of his magic. And the Crystal Heart constantly keeps the "Frozen North" out of the Crystal Empire, seemingly without the residents paying active attention to it or needing to constantly "activate" it. So I was under the impression that the Crystal Heart would work the same way against Sombra or other potential threats. It just feels like the utter ease with which Sombra strolled into the Crystal Empire and subjugated it makes Cadance, Shining Armor, and the Empire in general look incompetent unnecessarily.

When Cadance and her family are trapped by Sombra in their throne room, Flurry Heart blasts some magic in between the physical crystals surrounding them, but there appears to be some magical shielding above and beyond the physical crystals themselves. So it's interesting that just a little of Spike's dragon fire breath appears to disable the magical shield, even without destroying the physical crystals, thus allowing Cadance and her family to escape. Also, considering how well Spike's fire breath disabled Sombra's magical shield in that case, Spike could have gotten everyone out from Sombra's trap down at the Tree of Harmony without all the digging if he had tagged along. I guess the Mane Six didn't think that Spike needed to come, and/or Spike just didn't feel like going with them?

When Star Swirl appears with Celestia and Luna, he says that he felt the Tree of Harmony being incapacitated, and that he alerted Celestia and Luna as soon as he could. So did the other Pillars feel that, too? If so, did they recognize what had happened? And did any of them attempt to alert authorities as to what happened? Flash Magnus works as a drill sergeant for the royal guard, so could he have alerted Celestia and Luna himself more quickly than Star Swirl could? Or, if not Celestia and Luna, could Flash have at least alerted the royal guard in Canterlot? Could Mistmane in the Crystal Empire have alerted Cadance and Shining Armor and their guards? Could Rockhoof, if he lives in or near Ponyville, have alerted Spike or Starlight (or others in Ponyville), since the Mane Six were gone at the time?

-----

Finally, here are the rest of my miscellaneous observations.

I noticed that when the Mane Seven are together hurrying to the castle to answer the summons, Rainbow, Twilight, and Spike all fly, while Pinkie, Rarity, Applejack, and Fluttershy all run. We would expect flying to be faster and easier for Rainbow, but apparently it might be easier and/or faster for Twilight and Spike to fly also, whereas Fluttershy just sticks with running.

Rainbow shouts "Race ya!" to Pinkie and appears to zoom ahead, but in the next cutaway shot, Rainbow's seen entering the throne room with everyone else except Pinkie, who tumbles in last. So I guess Rainbow ended up waiting for most of the others before barging in.

Did Tirek just never particularly like Cozy Glow, even when the two of them were corresponding and planning to drain the magic from Equestria? Did Tirek just not realize when writing Cozy Glow letters how obnoxiously cloying she is in person? Or is Tirek just annoyed with Cozy Glow for failing to successfully carry out their evil plot?

If Cozy Glow hasn't heard of Grogar, then does that mean that he wasn't covered (yet) in any of the classes at Twilight's School of Friendship? After all, Cozy Glow seemed to be a particularly studious student.

One question that comes to my mind about the league of supervillains is what each of the members wants to do once Equestria is conquered. Perhaps they all want to defeat the Mane Six and conquer Equestria, such that they could work together to do that, but then what? Would there not be near-immediate infighting as soon as they've accomplished that one common goal?

The fact that Chrysalis and Tirek say that they were defeated because the Mane Six "cheat" or are "annoyingly lucky" would indicate that the lecturing at Chrysalis, Tirek, etc. about what they did wrong, and about the power of friendship, didn't really teach them anything or change their minds.

Twilight asks Starlight if she can "stay here and take care of the school", and Starlight replies "I've got you covered" while levitating Twilight's rulebook. But Starlight said earlier that the school is closed for the summer, and that she didn't expect anyone to be at the school. So why exactly does Starlight need to "take care of the school"? Is she just acting as a watchman, looking out for potential vandals or thieves? If so, is that something that Twilight and the Mane Six would normally do themselves? And what would acting as a watchman have to do with Twilight's rulebook for the school?

Why does Cadance call Sombra's attention to the Mane Six charging into the throne room? Wouldn't it be better for her to distract him while the Mane Six do a sneak attack?

So apparently Sombra wasn't killed by the Elements-of-Harmony rainbow laser, which had appeared to disintegrate him. But that raises a question: in a world of magical beings, like Equestria, how does one confirm that a magical being is dead if there's no physical body, or if a magical being can exist independent of a physical body? Is there some of magic detection spell that could confirm that the constitutive magic of a magical being no longer exists?

Sombra declines to put the Mane Six under his control because he says that "my conquering Ponyville is already your greatest fear!". Is it, though? I thought Twilight's greatest fear, at least, was disappointing Celestia. That's what I thought was depicted back in "The Crystal Empire", and that's what I thought was depicted in Part 1.

It does seem a little weird that Rainbow's first thought isn't to worry about Scootaloo being enslaved by Sombra, but rather, to worry about Spike and Starlight, when we might think that Twilight would be the one to first worry about them.

Why is Twilight trying to dig a way out of Sombra's crystal/magic shield by hoof when she has magic? Can Twilight not just telekinetically pick up and move a big pile of dirt, or teleport it somewhere out of the way? And of course, it's very convenient that Sombra's magical shield apparently doesn't extend below and around the Mane Six like a bubble.

When Fancy Pants & Co. are trapped in their own net, the net is only secured by a single rope for each of the four corners. That doesn't seem like it would remain secure for long against nine or so ponies struggling against it. I guess the enslaved ponies must not be trying very hard to escape.

When the enslaved pegasi wearing helmets are tricked into flying into each other, it doesn't seem like they run into each other that hard. But after they hit each other, they don't appear to move at all as Twilight levitates them into a pile on the ground. Are they supposed to have knocked themselves out from hitting each other?

Finally, if, as Twilight says, the Tree of Harmony was destroyed, then is there anything stopping the continued encroachment of the Everfree Forest on Ponyville? Is Star Swirl still slaving away off-screen to contain it? But, given what we've seen about the next episode in the trailers, we're almost certainly going to see more about this.

[Justin_Case001 4,881]

What's poning, ponles?

I'm back.  It's me, everyone's favorite little neighsayer, the infamous wet blanket, stick in the mud, everyone's favoritest dark thundercloud of darkness and buzzkillingness.  I love this show, (primarily because of the charming and magnetic characters), but I am also highly critical of it at times.  If that's not your cup of joe, if you don't want anyone ruining your funky good time and raining on your parade, then it's simple: go away.  *Chuckles*, no really, not in an insulting way, but seriously, if my angry ejaculations cause you upset, then just don't read.  Leave now.  If, however, you were frustrated by this episode, and feel like it might bring you catharsis and vindication to read the rantings of someone who was also frustrated, then party on.

Oh, Pony, Pony, Pony... what am I going to do with you?  I have long had a love-hate relationship with you.  I want it to just be love-love, but sometimes you make it so hard!

Spoiler

So, I didn't much care for this episode, as you can tell by now.  Firstly, I am annoyed by the fact that they didn't give any explanation as to how Sombra wasn't dead.  At least Rarity acknowledged this issue a bit, but I wanted an actual explanation.  Yeah, Goat Man brought him back.  Great.  Anything else?  Anything even remotely explaining how he seemed to be completely dead but wasn't?  Nope.  I hate that kind of stuff.  I should be used to this trend by now.  Pony has a habit of not explaining things like this.  Last time, Sombra was dissolved in a flash of light.  Apparently he wasn't dead.  This time, Sombra was dissolved in a flash of light.  So... should we assume he's not dead?  What is Sombra exactly?  He's a unicorn, but obviously much more than that.  A unicorn that was transformed by some dark magic?  Kinda like Stygian perhaps?  I want an explanation of exactly what he is and how he can be dead but not.

I also didn't care for this whole Sisters retirement thing.  I'm not really sure what about this is grinding my gears.  After all, it seems to have been foreshadowed from day 1 that Celestia has been training Twilight to be her replacement.  That does seem like the logical endgame, but for some reason, I'm really soured about it.  I think I always wanted it to remain speculation--something that will probably happen in the distant future, after the show has ended.  I don't think it's a good fit for the show, which I understand is probably why they're saving it for the finale.  Meh.  Still soured.  I realize that Celestia is probably tired and can't do this job forever (insert joke about how her "job" is sitting on her haunches and watching Twi save the world), but I guess I never really wanted Twilight to take over.  I think Twilight is perfect as headmare of the school, and that's where I want her to stay.

Want to hear my suggestion for Celestia's successor?  You're not gonna like it...

Spoiler

That's right.  The little monster.  I know, I know--she's a parasitic little sh*t right now, but someday she's gonna look like that ^, and when she does, she might be f*ckin' awesome.  Consider this: I believe that natural born alicorns (as I still believe the Sisters are), are immortal, or at least age very, very slowly.  Transformed alicorns, on the other hoof, I believe still have the lifespan that they had before transformation.  We've seen no evidence as of yet that Twilight will outlive her friends by thousands of years.  So, I believe that the logical choice for ruler of Equestria is a natural born alicorn who can do the job for a long, long time.  I believe that Flurry should attend Twilight's school when she comes of age, and then be trained to rule one day.

But that's just one pony's opinion.  I could be wrong, and if I am, I know you're gonna let me know in the comments section below.  As always guys, thanks for reading.  I love ya very much, and I'll speak with you again... soon.

Um... no wait... nevermind.  I'm not done yet.  ;P  Lol.

So, what else....  Um... Goat Man.  So, I was initially excited to have some ancient new villain, but could they have made him any stupider looking?  And I was also disappointed with Sombra's voice.  I've long thought that Sombra was one of the most intriguing and best villains, probably because he was largely mysterious, had no speaking lines to my recollection, and not much screen time.  Therefore, he was largely left open to interpretation, speculation, and headcanon, which I happily filled in.  Incidentally, the Sombra war scene in The Cutie Re-Mark was one of my favorite scenes in the whole series.  But what they did with him today was disappointing.  He seemed....silly to me.  He voice was silly, and his personality was silly.  I couldn't really take him seriously.

Most of these two-parters suffer from rushed pacing and cramming too much in, and boy howdy did they outdo themselves here.  It was so crammed full it was exploding at the seams.  Didn't really care for that.

Another thing that bothered me was whole way the climax was done.  Firstly, I have always hated the moments in any story where the heroes are down and out, beaten, all but destroyed with seemingly nothing left to give, and then they hear some inspiration speech or remember some inspirational words from earlier in the story, and then they power up like Goku and defeat the villain with determination.  (This is why I hated the climax of the much beloved Wonder Woman movie.)  It's just so contrived and lame.  Gimmie some kind of reason.  Don't just make the heroes suddenly start brimming with power because they got inspired.  Maybe it sounds cynical, but that trope always annoys me.

On a related note, I have long argued that friendship is not literal magic; it's figurative magic.  Friendship is not a literal force that can be summoned, powered up, wielded, deployed, exploded, and used to create villain-destroying, land-restoring, pony-healing shockwaves.  Friendship is not literally magic.  Magic is magic.  Friendship is metaphorical magic.  Today, it would seem that the show has proven me wrong, and my opponents would probably say "checkmate" and enjoy being the mayor of I Told Ya Town.  No elements, and yet they do the Super-Saiyan power up anyway, and all they had to do was shout those cliché words.  Seems like proof, eh?  I still disagree.  Ponies cannot just be friends hard enough and expect that to happen.  There's a lot of ponies in Equestria that are great friends and have strong bonds.  Are you telling me that the Mane 6 are simply the only ones with bonds strong enough to cause rainbow shockwaves?  Minotaursh*t.  If a group of all Earth pony friends tried that trick, you think it would do anything?  I think not.  Like, what if Bright Mac and Pear Butter had tried doing that.  You think it would have done sh*t?  I highly doubt it.  Shiny and Candy did that at their wedding, but that's because they are a unicorn and alicorn, so they have real magic.  Actual magic has to be present for this to work.  Just being friends doesn't do it.  The reason the gang pulled this off is because Twilight is a f*cking alicorn with f*cking magic, and she channeled it through them.  She thought her magic wasn't strong enough to defeat Sombra, but the inspiration from her friends (and Discord) gave her the strength.  It's possible that friends can actually strengthen magic, but somepony's gotta have a horn to begin with, or ain't nuthin' gunna happen, b*tch.  That's my stance unless proven otherwise.

But moreover, why does this friendship and magic thing seem so important to me?  Why is it such a sore spot?  I'll tell you--it's because I have always argued for a naturalistic worldview of Pony in which magic makes logical sense for what it is, and can be studied, learned, cast, and so forth.  I believe that a world in which simply "being friends" hard enough can explode villains is a silly and unbelievable one with a ramshackle and unmaintainable continuity.  But that's just one pony's opinion.  I could be wrong, and if I am, I know you're gonna let me know in the comments section below.  As always guys, thanks for reading.  I love ya very much, and I'll speak with you again... soon.

...

The thing that upset me the most, however, was the destruction of the ToH.  Now, if they plan to address it in upcoming episodes and do something good with it, then it might be fine.  With the next episode title being "Uprooted", I have high hopes, but Pony has a notorious history of introducing characters, events, plotlines and such, and then just abandoning them.  I have a dreadful fear that not only is the tree well and truly dead, but that we'll never even hear of it again.  If that's the case, then that would be... well that would just be the worst thing ever.  How could they destroy the tree right after revealing that it was sentient and intelligent?  My single biggest and most important wishlist item for S9 was that Twi, the Sisters, and Starswirl would get to talk to the tree.  But I'm trying not to flip out here before I even know.  Maybe it will turn out okay.

I was surprised that they actually made the self-aware joke that the Sisters never help.  I should have loved that joke, since we the fans constantly make the same joke, but it didn't sit well with me.  I'd have preferred that they just gave the Sisters a more important role, rather than just openly acknowledging that they're useless.  Didn't really care for that, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't funny as well.  I was really glad to see that they actually did help, finally.  And I was even more glad to see that they included Starswirl.  That kinda salvaged it for me.  If Starswirl didn't show up, even after the Tree's destruction, I think that there would have been no hope for the episode, or the rest of the season.  Thank Celestia that Starswirl showed up, and thank Starswirl that the Sisters fought alongside him.  That's was a great moment.

I did like the bit about making Twilight a verb.  That was cute.

For me, the best parts of this episode were Discord.  Basically every moment that he was on screen was great.  I was also surprised to hear Twilight ask him to deal with Sombra.  That's the first time that anyone has openly acknowledged that Discord could basically solve just about any problem with a snap of his fingers if he was so inclined.  That was pretty funny.  I know Discord is kind of a walking plot hole, but I've always loved him, and I'll freely admit that it's just because I'm a Q fan.  If I didn't love Star Trek, I imagine I'd likely be just as annoyed by Discord as youtber DWK is.  Anyway, I loved Discord in this episode.  His inspirational speech seemed way too sappy and feel-y to really be him, but the fact that he was faking made it perfect.  It's not that he was lying, per se.  He meant that stuff, but he was partly acting and just putting on a show to try to inspire them.  That made it work for me.  The reveal that he was faking was one of my favorite Discord moments.  Also, even though he's not totally omnipotent like Q, I really didn't think that he could be so easily hurt by a unicorn blast.

I'm not that keen on the fact that we basically already know the end.  I guess Twilight will take over Tia's job in the finale.  Eh...just.... not what I really wanted.

What annoys me more than anything in the episode is the fact that anything annoys me at all.  I'm also annoyed by the fact that, if the poll on this thread is any indication, this episode was beloved by the fans.  And it annoys me that that annoys me.  I feel like I'm the one with the problem, here.  I probably am.  I feel as though I should really like this episode, and I'm not really sure why I don't.  I freely admit that I'm an autistic weirdo with a pathetic and screwed up relationship with this show.  It's nobody's problem but my own.  I started out just loving the show for what it was.  Didn't matter what they did or didn't do.  Everything was just perfect as is.  I just loved seeing it.  It didn't have to be anything except exactly what it was.  But over the years I inadvertently made some kind of unhealthy divide in my mind between what the show is, and what I want it to be in my head.  And then I get all bent out of shape when the show doesn't do what I wanted it to.  What is wrong with me?  Why can't I just like it again?  Ugh.  What the buck.  Holy macaroni.  Sweet merciful Gandhi.  Good lord of all hells.  Geezus tap-dancing Krighst on crutches.

Well, at any rate I'm absolutely thrilled that the series is ending now, not because I'm a frickin' weirdo with a toxic love-hate relationship with the show, which I am, but because I have long wanted my precious, stupid, wonderful, irritating, beautiful, god-damn, beloved Pony to end before it plummets off a cliff and gets The Simpsons treatment.  Hopefully it will end with dignity and grace.

Alright, catch you guys on the flippity flip.

[Music Chart Fan 819]

4 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

I'm also annoyed by the fact that, if the poll on this thread is any indication, this episode was beloved by the fans.  And it annoys me that that annoys me.  I feel like I'm the one with the problem, here.  I probably am.  I feel as though I should really like this episode, and I'm not really sure why I don't.

I feel you about this. Over the years, there have been quite a few episodes that it seemed like just about everyone loved and raved about, but that I just didn't like, and in some cases, really didn't like. And I felt like I just couldn't see what everyone else was seeing.

For me, at least, I could chalk that up to a few things. I might just really be an idiosyncratic person who has a different mindset when watching the show than a lot of (or even most) other people have. Also, my own personality, personal experiences (or lack thereof), etc. will probably mean that some episodes just won't resonate with me, even if they do with many other people. Or I'll be inclined to see things, or have things bother me, that other people just don't notice, or don't particularly care about, or are more willing to give a pass.

I'm not sure that I'm being particularly insightful or helpful here. But I just wanted to say that you're not alone in sometimes just not liking episodes that seemingly everyone else loves.

[FlareGun45 2,221]

Discord: "Use the friendship, Twilight! Use the friendship!"

Twilight: "I can't! I lost the elements!"

Discord: "Forget the elements! The elements are bupkis. I found them in a Cracker Jack box. The friendship is in YOU, Twilight! It's in YOU!"

[ImpctR 155]

On 4/7/2019 at 4:50 AM, oregon said:

Spoiler

 

 

Now I see again why I never watched the G1 ponies and I feel the same, besides giving the 'lil girls show' kind of message. They look like depressed autistic introverts ugm no "uffsense". And Spike looks like a prematurely born dragon welp. They look terrible, I would have never watched MLP like that. Grogar on the other hand, is how he had to look now.

 

Some extra thoughts:

- Missed opportunity, Starlight could have been used while mind controlled to turn against the Mane 6, not enough episode time I guess. Two 2-parters in a row she seems pretty defenseless for her power.

- DISCORD... the lord of Chaos... either has to be controlled in some way to turn the Mane 6-7 against each other like Return of Harmony or be neutralized. His OP state makes Villains look useless!. Being friendly and around the Mane 6 all the time is not something I like, he is better off more neutral,

Edited April 10, 2019 by ImpctR

[oregon 170]

 

4 minutes ago, ImpctR said:

 

They look like depressed autistic introverts ugm no "uffsense".

Lol what? The ponies?

[MangoFoalix 24,944]

Just now, oregon said:

Lol what? The ponies?

He is talking about the way they are drawn in. I kind of have to agree to an extent. Not the biggest fan of the drawing style.

[ImpctR 155]

^ Yes, their look. When I first saw this MLP we have now, Rainbow Dash, Fluttershy, just recalled how Luna looked in Season 1 too,  didn't take long to like these cuties.

And one more:

- Why did the Tree of Harmony not fight back and stop Sombra with its tentacles like in the Mean 6? It got ambushed?

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by ImpctR

[Senko 459]

My theory its conciousness now resides in the castle/school and that is a largely empty shell used to store the element of harmony gemstones.