An Openly Gay Character on MLP

[Arctic Night 884]

Someone help me out here. Why is it that whenever somebody talks about homosexuality in children's media, people act like we're showing sex to kids?

Exactly, it's a perfect double standard. Two cute cartoon characters are depicted in a heterosexual marriage, and no one cares. If two male characters married, parents and bronies would view it as "sexual."

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

Because whenever it's brought up the first thing people(usually homophobes)think about is the sex, gee I wonder why, I mean it's not like they secretly wanna take part in it or anything :->.

Well strictly speaking, the defining characteristic of homosexuality (aside from the homo bit) is the sexuality bit. It's not homolove. I love plenty guys. The only point at which something can rightly be deemed "homosexuality" is when it actually involves sex in some way. That may be in a guy fantasizing about another guy, or two girls actually having sex, or anywhere in between. But unless sex is involved in some fashion, it doesn't rightly make sense to call something "homosexuality." Same goes for "heterosexuality," for that matter.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Henny Penny Benny

[Mand'alor Dash 2,224]

I see where you are coming from with that I do. At the same time though if the kid IS gay, which trust me is a thing whether or not you instill your beliefs to the kid, do you want he or she to grow up thinking they are bad or evil for feeling the way they do? Cause thats exactly what happens when you shut out something like this as an Opinion.

How exactly does My Little Pony not explicitly acknowledging gay kids make them feel "bad or evil"? It's just a kids' show meant to entertain and have generally positive messages for all viewers.

 

It's the job of one's parents to support their kid, not the TV. And if parents aren't up to that task, whatever the reason may be, then they frankly shouldn't be parents anymore.

[Buck Testa 5,505]

How exactly does My Little Pony not explicitly acknowledging gay kids make them feel "bad or evil"? It's just a kids' show meant to entertain and have generally positive messages for all viewers.

 

It's the job of one's parents to support their kid, not the TV. And if parents aren't up to that task, whatever the reason may be, then they frankly shouldn't be parents anymore.

that isnt exactly the context of the comment (which was directed to more of the parents being opposed to the portrayal of homosexuality than the portrayal itself). I actually would not mind if they left it as implied and not made a big deal about it cause that is the healthier way of going about this anyway

 

But many times parents like mine and many others go to great lengths to preach against something that is a part of their child. If the kid saw a pony dealing with the same thing as he or she and the parents then make a big stink on how aweful the show is because of this character; how would the child NOT feel bad about it? They get it drilled into their brain that what they feel is wrong and what they like is wrong, its a vicious dispicable thing.

 

I agree the support should come from the parents, but the parents we are talking about tend to be too blinded by religion to do this. Someones got to tell these kids living in these toxic enviroments that they are not in the wrong here.

[Fractured 2,684]

The issue with making a character gay is that you are doing it solely to make a point. It's not like in real life, where one's preferences are dictated by their background, life experience, etc. In fiction, a character's appearance, traits, and even preferences are dictated entirely by the author. And homosexuality, being a massively overexaggerated hot-button issue these days, is something that everyone wants to make a point on. What exactly that point is, and how well it's handled, however, heavily depend on the writer.

 

BioWare, for instance, has become rather infamous for putting gay/bi characters everywhere they possibly can in their games, to the point that even the most progressive of players were pissed off that there wasn't a single straight romance option in DA2. Russel T. Davies, the madman behind the first few seasons of the Doctor Who reboot (which itself seemed to have gay characters just for the point of having them), later created the orientational clusterfuck that is Torchwood.

 

All of this is well and good, though, when you consider context. BioWare makes mature-rated video games for grown-ups. If a grown-up can't handle having homosexuality in a video game (as long as it doesn't get ridiculous), then there is no hope for them. Doctor Who, while a family show at face, is a show with an adult nerd culture that dwarfs even our own, and the writing reflects that. Well, most of the time, at least.

 

MLP fanfiction, even, is also written for adults. If you write a fanfic about Twilight and Applejack getting together, then that fanfic was written for a grown-up audience, and so you can cover whatever issues you want in said fanfic.

 

But MLP the show, a cartoon which has already been criticized for even the most minute of nods to the brony community, a show that plays things so safe that a grey horse got censored because she "looked retarded," a show in which every single episode to air thus far has been rated TV-Y (which is the lowest possible television rating in the United States, and second lowest out of all US ratings next to the seldom-used "ec" rating on video games), really SHOULD NOT become a battleground for adult politics.

 

There is a time and a place to make a point. A children's TV show about talking ponies is neither. There are issues I'd like to see covered in fiction, too, but I concede that Rainbow Dash suddenly spitting out a ranty diatribe about media sensationalism would be more than a little ridiculous.

 

Let some things just be for fun without having a political message behind them. Even if it's an agreeable, or even harmless message, it has no place in the canon Ponyverse.

Why do people only brohoof things they agree with? I find this to be a perfectly well formed opinion. Respect,sir.

Anyways, there seems to be an heir of "it's the principle" floating about in your message. In other words, "if we've never done it before, why do it now?" 

 

That's a very dangerous idea.

 

It leads to the propagation of negative and harmful ideas when we use the past to determine how we work with the future. It also leads to stagnation in our society. Things have to advance eventually; can you imagine if science worked on that ideology? We'd still be in the stone ages.

 

Kids aren't stupid, they actually take a lot from television. By choosing to leave this idea out, you're unintentionally creating the idea that it's abnormal and "weird", which causes people to place more attention on it than is actually needed. Imagine if you walked outside and saw a guy with a purple face walking down the street. No one ever told you that men with purple faces exist. You'd call it out, or at least think to yourself "that's strange" if you didn't speak out on it. Same principle applies; had you grown up with it, you wouldn't even care, it's only the fact that it's been kept from you that causes you to take notice. In real world terms, it also causes distrust; people tend to react poorly to things that defy their predefined ideas of the world.

 

I'd also like to point out that being gay doesn't start when you're an adult, it's something you're born with. By keeping the idea out of children's media, you're also leading kids to believe that it's an issue for adults, who become adults that believe it's an issue for adults in a false and self-repetitive cycle of nonsense. For children that actually are gay, you're teaching them that what they feel is dirty and evil, and that they shouldn't talk about it. Again, kids aren't stupid; by the time they're old enough to go to school, they already have ideas of how the world works, and the primary way they get that is by taking what they see on television and using it as a baseline for how the world works.To use another example:

 

There are dogs with one head in the real world on tv, and there are dogs with one head in real life. A dog with one head is "normal" A dog with three heads would be "weird".

Now switch it with:

There are people who love those of a different gender on tv, and there are people who love those of a different gender in real life. Someone who loves someone of a different gender would be "normal". Someone who loves the same gender would be "weird". 

 

Hiding doesn't keep anything from them; they just fill in the gaps. You're merely increasing the chances that kids get called out for being "different" than what other kids have grown accustomed to always seeing. It leads to, again, kids thinking they're different and "evil". 

 

Doing this harms people mentally. That cycle obviously needs to be split. The question is "where to start"?

 

You say "why mlp?" and I say "why not"? It's a very well known kids shows, and it also has a track record of handling social issues well. It doesn't even have to be the focus of an episode, just acknowledged. I'd certainly prefer them to do it over any other show, like say, the trash that tends to frequent Cartoon Network nowadays.

[Eliash147 159]

I Am completley down with that
Although they might wanna tackle something like Asexuality before going that far

Even then it would show kids to respect gays and not diss them or use theyre name as something bad 

HELL YEAH! Im down with that

[ShadowPirateX 600]

I wouldn't mind it. I'd applaud it, in fact (and then proceed to be slightly creeped out). But I think they should keep that character in the background and not give it a speaking role. Remember what happened to Derpy!

[Eliash147 159]

I wouldn't mind it. I'd applaud it, in fact (and then proceed to be slightly creeped out). But I think they should keep that character in the background and not give it a speaking role. Remember what happened to Derpy!

Yeah

Hell i would be happy if they hinted at it with something like 2 stallions in the back round together or something

[GrauWitz 1,010]

Personally, I'd think featuring an openly gay character is a wonderful idea and I'd LOVE to see it come to light (hell, I'm gay ). But as awesome as it would be, it probably wouldn't go well. Remember those stupid moms who were freaking out over Derpy? Yeah.......

Edited August 28, 2014 by GrauWitz

[Nerdy Luigi 2,065]

It could happen, and it really would be a good thing (of course, WBC would be all over Hasbro about that...).

[Arctic Night 884]

Personally, I'd think featuring an openly gay character is a wonderful idea and I'd LOVE to see it come to light (hell, I'm gay ). But as awesome as it would be, it probably wouldn't go well. Remember those stupid moms who were freaking out over Derpy? Yeah.......

I think it should be introduced nonchalantly. Instead of having, say Fluttershy (just an example) come out as gay, they could have a brief moment introducing the characters to two stallions who are married (and who are also relevant to the episode's plot), and continue on the episode.

[TenorSounds 832]

Well the show doesn't focus on relationships much anyway, so it would seem kind of forced. However, a couple of stallions nuzzling noses in the background over a milkshake or something?

 

That would be pretty snazzy

[PoniesPlease 365]

How about, reveal a characters sexuality if it is a plot point. 

 

If there's a show about gay people, then it's prudent to have a gay character.

 

If the show isn't about sexuality, then don't reveal the characters' sexualities at all! It isn't necessary.

 

Apologies if this is worded weirdly, it's really late and I'm incredibly tired.

[Arctic Night 884]

Post while the minimum is still twenty characters. Some cranky mods might move this to the debate pit.

How about, reveal a characters sexuality if it is a plot point. 

 

If there's a show about gay people, then it's prudent to have a gay character.

 

If the show isn't about sexuality, then don't reveal the characters' sexualities at all! It isn't necessary.

 

Apologies if this is worded weirdly, it's really late and I'm incredibly tired.

I agree, if there is to be a gay character they should at least contribute to the overall story.

[PE Brony 1,712]

Again, to the both of you, why would that be?

 Did you not even read my entire post? It was very short...and I had already said that I would come back to give more of my personal opinions once I had more free time. Seeing as I'm at University as a student AND now as a part time teacher, I find myself rather busy in the mornings.

 

Yes, I was raised Christian and I am heterosexual. Every poll I've come across polling with the question regarding sexual orientation has not polled more than 6,000 people (in the USA). A staggeringly small number compared to the ~247,741,000 adults in the USA alone. That's ~0.00242% of the adult population having a poll stereotyped over the rest. From those small polls, an average between 1.6%-5.6% claimed themselves as part of the LGBT community. To geneticists, more than 1% of a population is enough to be considered as a "normal variant" or "polymorphic" in nature. So for me, it really does come down to the question of if sexual orientation is really up for choice or if it is 100% infallibly hard wired into each person.

 

My stance is that if someone is gay, fine. But don't expect me to be supportive of your lifestyle. I feel the same way about people that take drugs, or drink, or smoke or whatever else. It's your life, whatever; but don't try to make me have to be open to it. Whenever this topic is brought up in person, people assume I hate gays because they are gay. I don't agree with their lifestyle, but I'm not going to automatically hate them for it. I've known gay people that don't throw it in my face and their sexuality has not become their deciding factor in every aspect of their lives, it is simply their sexual preference. They behave like "normal" people who don't tie every aspect of their day to the fact that they're doing something a certain way "because [they're] gay."

 

As in: He does interpretive dance because he enjoys the physical challenge of the movements and postures; and not He does interpretive dance because he's gay/feminine/etc. 

 

As as been said before by a couple here, MLP is a show for kids' entertainment--not a stage for political bullet points or controversies. I don't mind having a gay couple in the show Modern Family because it's aimed towards adults and frankly, it's similar to how our society is currently shifting towards. But the people arguing that they feel "left out" or ostracized simply because a show doesn't show their lifestyle, in my opinion, are looking for ways to be offended. To me, it comes down to egocentric-ism and selfishness. We have a choice to take offense or not. I will make a broad assumption that a number of you will take offense at my post, but that's not going to affect me at all; I don't know you and it's not my fault that we see things differently. I don't expect you to agree with me and you shouldn't expect me to agree with you.

 

I don't think that 1.6%-5.6% of a population should be grounds for so many waves pushing through politics, seeing as a majority is supposed to be needed. I honestly think that a lot of people are so indifferent on these kinds of topics simply because they know if they take a stance, the other side will call them bigots or closed-minded (typically aimed at conservatives in my experience); or call you a socialist, commie, or hippie if you're on the other side.

 

Bring it. I'm not a bigot, but I am confident in my personal opinions and I know I probably could have spent more than the 20 minutes I did on this to have more expertly presented my stance, but frankly, I'm getting a headache thinking about the repercussions coming my way anyway. I've got to get ready to referee a game now and do some physiology homework after. I'm out. PM me if you want to say more, but I'm not coming back here to follow the debate. Too hard to keep up with all these notifications! I got 30 more while typing this out. Peace!   

[Unr3alGamer 230]

The issue with making a character gay is that you are doing it solely to make a point. It's not like in real life, where one's preferences are dictated by their background, life experience, etc. In fiction, a character's appearance, traits, and even preferences are dictated entirely by the author. And homosexuality, being a massively overexaggerated hot-button issue these days, is something that everyone wants to make a point on. What exactly that point is, and how well it's handled, however, heavily depend on the writer.

 

BioWare, for instance, has become rather infamous for putting gay/bi characters everywhere they possibly can in their games, to the point that even the most progressive of players were pissed off that there wasn't a single straight romance option in DA2. Russel T. Davies, the madman behind the first few seasons of the Doctor Who reboot (which itself seemed to have gay characters just for the point of having them), later created the orientational clusterfuck that is Torchwood.

 

All of this is well and good, though, when you consider context. BioWare makes mature-rated video games for grown-ups. If a grown-up can't handle having homosexuality in a video game (as long as it doesn't get ridiculous), then there is no hope for them. Doctor Who, while a family show at face, is a show with an adult nerd culture that dwarfs even our own, and the writing reflects that. Well, most of the time, at least.

 

MLP fanfiction, even, is also written for adults. If you write a fanfic about Twilight and Applejack getting together, then that fanfic was written for a grown-up audience, and so you can cover whatever issues you want in said fanfic.

 

But MLP the show, a cartoon which has already been criticized for even the most minute of nods to the brony community, a show that plays things so safe that a grey horse got censored because she "looked retarded," a show in which every single episode to air thus far has been rated TV-Y (which is the lowest possible television rating in the United States, and second lowest out of all US ratings next to the seldom-used "ec" rating on video games), really SHOULD NOT become a battleground for adult politics.

 

There is a time and a place to make a point. A children's TV show about talking ponies is neither. There are issues I'd like to see covered in fiction, too, but I concede that Rainbow Dash suddenly spitting out a ranty diatribe about media sensationalism would be more than a little ridiculous.

 

Let some things just be for fun without having a political message behind them. Even if it's an agreeable, or even harmless message, it has no place in the canon Ponyverse.

This. ^

 

For the sake of the show, leave gay relationships out. At the end of the day, you'll be causing more harm than good.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

I would be 100% fine with it, as long as they do not make it a focal point. It could work as a simple background reference, and would not detract from the show at large. The issue with making it a focal point is that it would then politize the show. If they were to make the character homosexual, and have somthing of a "gay rights" episode, it would take a rather innocent children's show that has so far stuck to universal morals, and thrust it into the shit fest that is modern politics. This would inevitably change the entire atmosphere of the show (just like having episodes devoted to the explicit sexuality of the mane 6) and remove from it it's innocent charm that has brought so many to it.

[Fractured 2,684]

 

I would be 100% fine with it, as long as they do not make it a focal point. It could work as a simple background reference, and would not detract from the show at large. The issue with making it a focal point is that it would then politize the show. If they were to make the character homosexual, and have somthing of a "gay rights" episode, it would take a rather innocent children's show that has so far stuck to universal morals, and thrust it into the shit fest that is modern politics. This would inevitably change the entire atmosphere of the show (just like having episodes devoted to the explicit sexuality of the mane 6) and remove from it it's innocent charm that has brought so many to it.

I actually think that's how they should work it. Not as an episode, but just a thing that happens. No need to make a big deal over it.

[SparklingSwirls 21,398]

I wouldn't really care one way or the other about it if that was shown. Just like gay people in real life; it's your life, not mine.

 

I'm not sure if they should actually do it though, even if just because it would spark so much controversy. The Derpy Hooves thing is a good situation that can be compared to this, and we all know how that went. :/

[Twilight The Creator 298]

I'm down but I'm not sure about others

*inb4 soccer moms*

[Visual Spectrum 1,932]

I don't think a lot of you understood what I was saying. 

 

We know Mrs and Mr Cake are married. Their marriage does not affect the plot. 

 

Let's say Big Mac and Caramel got married. We know they are married, but they don't go into the marriage. It's just a side thing, nothing more.  Would that affect your views of the show?

 

I do not mean an episode about them getting married or anything. We know they got married, and that's it. 

[Eliash147 159]

I don't think a lot of you understood what I was saying. 

If we understood this it wouldnt be a gay/religion debate

[Visual Spectrum 1,932]

If we understood this it wouldnt be a gay/religion debate

 

Good point. 

 

How about this...

 

If you practice a religion that is against gay marriage, do not get married to someone of the same sex. Do not prevent others from getting married because of your religion or because you are against it.

 

I hate spicy food, but if someone else likes it, it is none of my business.

 

Saying someone else's marriage is against your religion is like me saying you shouldn't eat a donut because I'm on a diet. (Something like that.)

[Fractured 2,684]

If we understood this it wouldnt be a gay/religion debate

To be fair, this was already destined to be a gay vs. religious debate. We were headed down that route before the first comment. People just don't understand...

[TenorSounds 832]

Just wanted to touch on something becoming increasingly relevant to this discussion, to those of you who can't understand why some people don't approve of homosexuality: The thing when it comes to religion is that the principles are dogmatic by nature; you're not going to change anyone's mind, at least not in some grand way. If someone believes that homosexuality is a sin well...that's all there is to it. We can say it's not till we're blue in the face and there's no point because it's part of the doctrine, something so intrinsic to themselves that they would have to have a world-view-changing experience to change their mind.

 

We're sad because the negativity towards homosexuality seems completely and utterly baseless, and they're sad because they can't get us to understand that we're falling out of the grace of god. The perspectives are just too different, and at some point you just need to respectfully agree to disagree on certain things.

 

 

I don't think a lot of you understood what I was saying. 

 

We know Mrs and Mr Cake are married. Their marriage does not affect the plot. 

 

Let's say Big Mac and Caramel got married. We know they are married, but they don't go into the marriage. It's just a side thing, nothing more.  Would that affect your views of the show?

 

I do not mean an episode about them getting married or anything. We know they got married, and that's it. 

 

Yeah, that's what I figured you meant. That's kind of what I touched-on with my first post, I think a whole episode or something would seem really forced and obviously feel like it had an agenda, but just showing that it exists in the world without highlighting it would be completely fine in my book. I mean, it's never going to happen considering the controversy, but still.

Edited August 28, 2014 by TenorSounds