Can Alicorns be Killed?

[Dsanders 5,746]

This question is basically self-explanatory in the title of this topic. Can Alicorns such as Princess Celestia, Luna, or Cadence be killed? It is never implicitly stated, at least from what I have seen. Though in a couple fanfics that I have read, they can be often depicted as either immortal, ageless, and impossible to kill, or just very durable and extremely hard to kill. If you can clear that up for me, then great.

 

The reason I didn't list Princess Twilight is because the whole alicorn situation for her is confusing for me to understand. I've been hearing so many different theories and speculations in regards to her.

[VitalSpark 1,830]

I don't think it's been dealt with anywhere in the canon, but I believe Lauren Faust said that her intention was the alicorns are not immortal. Born alicorns age a lot slower than other ponies, giving them a natural life span of many thousands of years. Though this doesn't rule out them dying from non-age-related causes, like falling off a cliff.

 

Twilight and Cadence are not born alicorns though. Twilight was originally a unicorn; Cadence a pegasus. Therefore they age at the normal pony speed.

[Castle Bleck 19,319]

Yes; Alicorns like Celestia and Luna can live (and have) for s***loads of time, but they're otherwise just as vulnerable as you and me.

Edited December 12, 2014 by A.V.

[Fractured 2,684]

Depends on how hard you want to kill them. For an ordinary pony, it'd be impossible, and i'm assuming age won't kill a natural alicorn(Celestia's looked the same for milenia). Normal lethal situations like falling and small explosions probably won't do it either. But hit them repeatedly with enough energy, like Chrysalis did , and that should do the trick. (Celestia's been knocked out at least twice that way.) I assume NMM was trying to kill Celestia, otherwise there would've been no point to that fight.

[Snow Frostflame 3,568]

Alicorns are not their own species they are the gods of Equestria or princesses depends how you look at it. Celestia and Luna have been alive since the day Equestria started as for Twilight and Cadence they are pretty young but most likely will live forever, but who knows maybe they can die....... its all up to Hasbro...... but from what I have seen they look Immortal so I'm going with no

[TimeyMarey007 110]

HEADCANON: Not technically immortal in all ways. Immortal in aging, yes, but like the Elves of Middle-earth, they can only die of grief and sadness or be slain.

 

Exposing them to centerpoints of explosions, dismembering, shot in the head, heart etc. will kill them.

Aging will not kill them. Suicide is possible.

 

But then, Twilight and Cadence? They weren't born as Alicorns all from the beginning. They are mortal. They both have their life expectancy expanded to a few decades more, syttitldr (seriously, you think this is too long, didn't read), mortal.

 

But then, they have a powerful connection to magic, and are very strong. This means that it would be hard to kill them. Just like how Jaws in the James Bond series survives crashes that would've killed a normal human for sure.

 

(Man, I sounded so grim with this comment )

Edited December 12, 2014 by TimeyMarey007

[Shanks 10,816]

They are much more difficult to kill than your typical pony because their magic, strength and endurance are well beyond what ponies can achieve but probably can be killed.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

If we go by Journal of the Two Sisters, then they just age really slowly and aren't immortal.

 

They're pretty powerful magic wise though, so it would be hard to take them down.

[Dsanders 5,746]

HEADCANON: Not technically immortal in all ways. Immortal in aging, yes, but like the Elves of Middle-earth, they can only die of grief and sadness or be slain.

 

Exposing them to centerpoints of explosions, dismembering, shot in the head, heart etc. will kill them.

Aging will not kill them. Suicide is possible.

 

(Man, I sounded so grim with this comment )

It's alright, I love hearing people's headcanons about topics like this

 

So according to your headcanon, you think they would be able to survive being stabbed or impaled?

[TimeyMarey007 110]

It's alright, I love hearing people's headcanons about topics like this

 

So according to your headcanon, you think they would be able to survive being stabbed or impaled?

(I already added more, read them)

 

Yes, but just simply one stab ain't gonna kill them. I say, around 20-45 stabs with a kitchen knife would kill them for sure.

Surviving dangerous falls (about 2 km or higher) won't kill them too. But 100 km will kill them for sure too.

Gunshots (if guns even exist in the MLP universe) will kill them, one shot ain't enough. A few more shots, and dead.

 

They can tolerate a lot of pain. Look how Twilight was tossed around in Twilight's Kingdom - Part 2, surely painful, but survived. Strong indeed.

Edited December 12, 2014 by TimeyMarey007

[Castle Bleck 19,319]

Look how Twilight was tossed around in Twilight's Kingdom - Part 2, surely painful, but survived.

 

She actually protected herself with a forcefield.

Edited December 12, 2014 by A.V.

[Fractured 2,684]

Actually, from what we've seen, magic works under Newton's third law. 

 

Basically, magic is not a free process; in order to use magic, you have to have enough personal energy for it. If you can't take the energy requirements of that process, then you can't use that magic. In Boast Busters, you see Twilight straining to lift the Ursa Minor, enough so so that she's actually digging small trenches in the ground. What was happening what was that she was bracing the weight of the magical energy required to hold the bear... with her own body. Cadence and Shining Armor both became exhausted when putting up shields in A Royal Canterlot Wedding and The Crystal Empire because it was taxing their personal energy supply. 

 

What does this mean? It means that for Equestrian magic, the maximum energy you can give is equal to the maximum energy you can take. When at their full magical capacity, a unicorn's/ alicorn's body's ability to withstand forces is equal to the largest magical task that they've done. If the force exerted on them doesn't pass that limit, it won't affect them.(Think Trixie failing to hurt Rainbow Dash in Magic Duel) Basically, it's the same as if we were talking about physical punches; if you took a Mike Tyson's best shot without feeling it, a punch from a guy who can only hit half as hard won't do anything to you.

 

Basically, this means in order to kill any pony, you just have to hit them with their maximum magical energy+1. It's easy to do that with a regular pony(somewhat), but the celestial sisters move celestial bodies. Nothing in Equestria that we've seen has shown the raw energy to match an alicorn, save each other and Discord, so unless their magical reserves are drained, nothing in Equestria can hurt or kill them.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Shimmer5000

[Alia 158]

I guess nopony can ever be killed in show like this. Amn’t I right?

[lomk 20,663]

WARNING: Major headcanon ahead

 

After the introduction of Cadence, I took Alicorns to be separated into two groups: Natural-Born Alicorns and Ascended Alicorns. Natural-borns are those who were born into royalty with the wings and horn. That includes Tia and Luna. Ascended Alicorns would be those who weren't born into alicorn-hood, but they have all the features. 

 

Natural-borns are ageless because of the role they play in the natural processes of the world. Luna and Tia control the motion of massive celestial bodies. We have seen what happens when they are unable to do their jobs. There would always be a need to keep the sun and moon in motion so that would require that the regal sisters don't age. If they do, that warrants a need to reproduce. Are the regal sisters able to do that? I don't know. And it's not something I want to delve into. So for now, I'm going to say the sisters are ageless.

 

On the other hand, the ascended have the lifespans of normal ponies because they were born and hard-wired to be that way. Hence Twilight (formerly a unicorn) and Cadence (formerly a pegasus) would live no longer than Rarity or Rainbow Dash. These alicorns do not have roles in the day/night cycle. Their only roles are to rule their kingdoms, and following the death of one leader, I don't know that it would be too difficult for them to find a new leader. 

 

As far as total immortality is concerned, I believe that the lack of complete invulnerability is universal. I think the regal sisters aren't invulnerable to disease, injury, starvation, etc. If they couldn't be stopped by mere injury, then there wouldn't have been a feeling of danger every time the sisters are under attack. Completely invulnerable would mean they can handle themselves in any possible situation. There would be no need for the Mane Six to "save the day." 

 

So to sum it up, age cannot kill Tia and Luna; however Twilight and Cadence do have limited lifespans similar to that of normal ponies. And all ponies can be killed by famine, pestilence, injury, and so forth. 

 

But then if the sisters are ageless, do they even have a beginning? Do they even have parents? This is all a bunch of stuff that we can argue about for ages. If they're immortal and because the world would not be fine without them but they would not exist without the world can spark a chicken-and-egg debate. Many people think they were at one point young fillies with parents. So that does mean that there is an ability to reproduce. So why, then, don't the sisters have any offspring that they're training to take their jobs when or in case they die? Or maybe they did have sons or daughters but since there are no male alicorns (has anyone else noticed that?) they ended up having half-breed children with nowhere near the lifespans of their own and the two sisters have surpassed the age wherein they can perpetuate so they have no living children? I don't know. See, no matter how much you try to come up with, you can always find a hole in something where it doesn't all add up 100%. 

Edited December 12, 2014 by Space Woona

[GXPBlast 597]

Gunshots  will kill them, one shot ain't enough. A few more shots, and dead.

 

 

 

So you mean like this type of gunshot, or maybe multiple ones of them.

 

(yes I am a big fan of battleships lol)

 

Edited December 12, 2014 by GXPBlast

[WindyParadise 59]

WARNING: Major headcanon ahead

 

After the introduction of Cadence, I took Alicorns to be separated into two groups: Natural-Born Alicorns and Ascended Alicorns. Natural-borns are those who were born into royalty with the wings and horn. That includes Tia and Luna. Ascended Alicorns would be those who weren't born into alicorn-hood, but they have all the features. 

 

Natural-borns are ageless because of the role they play in the natural processes of the world. Luna and Tia control the motion of massive celestial bodies. We have seen what happens when they are unable to do their jobs. There would always be a need to keep the sun and moon in motion so that would require that the regal sisters don't age. If they do, that warrants a need to reproduce. Are the regal sisters able to do that? I don't know. And it's not something I want to delve into. So for now, I'm going to say the sisters are ageless.

 

On the other hand, the ascended have the lifespans of normal ponies because they were born and hard-wired to be that way. Hence Twilight (formerly a unicorn) and Cadence (formerly a pegasus) would live no longer than Rarity or Rainbow Dash. These alicorns do not have roles in the day/night cycle. Their only roles are to rule their kingdoms, and following the death of one leader, I don't know that it would be too difficult for them to find a new leader. 

 

As far as total immortality is concerned, I believe that the lack of complete invulnerability is universal. I think the regal sisters aren't invulnerable to disease, injury, starvation, etc. If they couldn't be stopped by mere injury, then there wouldn't have been a feeling of danger every time the sisters are under attack. Completely invulnerable would mean they can handle themselves in any possible situation. There would be no need for the Mane Six to "save the day." 

 

So to sum it up, age cannot kill Tia and Luna; however Twilight and Cadence do have limited lifespans similar to that of normal ponies. And all ponies can be killed by famine, pestilence, injury, and so forth. 

 

But then if the sisters are ageless, do they even have a beginning? Do they even have parents? This is all a bunch of stuff that we can argue about for ages. If they're immortal and because the world would not be fine without them but they would not exist without the world can spark a chicken-and-egg debate. Many people think they were at one point young fillies with parents. So that does mean that there is an ability to reproduce. So why, then, don't the sisters have any offspring that they're training to take their jobs when or in case they die? Or maybe they did have sons or daughters but since there are no male alicorns (has anyone else noticed that?) they ended up having half-breed children with nowhere near the lifespans of their own and the two sisters have surpassed the age wherein they can perpetuate so they have no living children? I don't know. See, no matter how much you try to come up with, you can always find a hole in something where it doesn't all add up 100%. 

 

@Space Wonna: More Headcanon incoming and possibly some minor ranting.    Warning! Large slight-off topic rant.

 

 I have similar thoughts on Alicorns, but it's more related to the magic in Equestria. So let me explain the latter first.

 

There are several kinds of magic in the MLP Universe: Earth Magic(Earth Ponies), Sky Magic(Pegasus), Unicorn Magic(Unicorns duh), Celestial/Unity Magic(Related to Space, Stars, and Uniting things), Dark Magic(King Sombra/NMM type Magic), and finally Harmony Magic(Elements of Harmony). There might also be a magic for the Crystal Ponies but I'll get to that.

 

 The Earth Ponies indirectly affect the world around them by being able to tend to say... an apple tree better than a unicorn could. This is why you see many Earth Ponies working in more physical jobs such as farming, mining or heavy lifting. Their bodies are more naturally built for such work and their races magic is more easily used in those situations.

 It is similar for the Pegasus more or less.  -_-

 

 The Unicorns however have a more focused and direct way to channel their inner magic. Instead of an aura that affects the world around them in a natural way, they focus their magic to levitate a baby dragon or discover buried gems. They can also focus their magic as a weapon and shoot charged balls of energy from their bodies through their horns. This is why we see some Unicorns in scientific related positions, by working to increase their science/magic they can also increase their own abilities.

 

:comeatus: The Alicorns are a combination of all three natural races and likely represent either the original race or the future evolution of ponykind. Their magic can be used in replacement of any of the three normal pony races, but instead of being a magic focused on their direct surroundings or channeled like a Unicorns it is far reaching and can unite three very different races together.

 

It is commonly used alongside Harmony magic when such magic is available due to it's similarities. Their magic(and thus cutie marks) are usually related to far-reaching and stabilizing/unifying things such as raising the Sun, Moon, or representing the combination of the two in a moment of Twilight(pun intended).

 

Dark Magic is mostly a corruption of the original magic and could possibly represent a far darker force at work in the world. King Sombra embraced such magic and used it to his advantage to establish his own personal Empire. Other's like NMM are affected by it through temptation, fear, and insecurity; it also creates a desire to cause these emotions in other ponies. To me, this is why NMM wanted Eternal Darkness as it would create huge amounts of fear and uncertainty for the ponies had she succeeded in slaying Celestia.    

  It is similar to the Wendigo's yes and I'm unsure about the connection between the two.

 

We now reach Harmony Magic which I'm sure your all far more familiar with. I see no reason to explain much here other than it's connections with Dark Magic and Celestial Magic.

 It's the direct opposite of Dark Magic and likely represents the 'Holy' magic of the world and Harmony can help establish Unity and vise versa.

 

TO THE ALICORNS and actual topic at hand. 

 Natural Alicorns like Luna and Celestia are Immortal in the sense that they can not die from old age but their bodies will continue to age as if they were simply long-lived. I would not be surprised if there were other Alicorns who had existed or will eventually exist. Alicorn Cutie Marks are usually related to a Celestial topic such as Twilight, Moon, Sun, etc...  

Ascended Alicorns on the other hand represent a pony who had done something to fully represent Unity at a massive or important scale such as Twilight's own ascendance event. 

 They age at a slightly slower pace than their original race but are not immortal like Luna and Celestia. Every Alicorn also has the ability to simply 'wish' themselves to die if they desire, this is usually only used by Natural-Alicorns when they have found a successor of sorts or when they have reached such an age where it would be better for the world to find a new Alicorn to take their place. Alicorns are able to die from battle, disease, starvation, and many other causes of death. 

 Natural Born Alicorns are unable to have children due to being born so differently and having long lives which makes birthing a successor a less interesting prospect. Ascended Alicorns can have children as it is more likely for them to marry and have time for such things since Natural-Alicorns are usually in a position in of power.

 

However this is where Crystal Ponies and Cadence(and Fluttershy as an example). While a ponies natural magic can be a focus for their Cutie Mark, it does not always have to be as Cutie Marks are actually part of the Harmony Magic tree(  Pun not intended. lol) but that's for another time.

 

Cadence, while being an Ascended Alicorn had a strange cutie Mark representing her special ability to channel a sort of 'love-spell'. As we do not have her Cutie Mark or Ascendance story that's what I'm going with right now since she was an Alicorn at such a young age.

 When the Crystal Empire returned, Cadence was uniquely suited to rule and maintain the Empire due to her personality and special ability. We discover the Crystal Heart is a focus for some kind of magic that the Crystal Ponies have. 

 

I believe this magic would be the 'other side of the coin' as it were, it is the balance to Alicorn Magic much like Harmony Magic is the balance to Dark Magic.

 Crystal Pony Magic is simply this: Love. Love and Friendship are very similar and yet very different and that's why their are paired opposites in my Headcanon.

 

 Here's a list for those who would like one.

Dark Magic - Harmony Magic

Alicorn Magic - Crystal Magic

Unicorn Magic - Pegasus/Earth Magic.

Discord is an anomaly since he is the opposite of no magic and simply represents Chaos.

 

Anyway, I'm to off topic right now. lol I blame this rant on Space Woona for making me want to type it all up.

 

 

 TL:DR? Different Magics in Equestria rant and Alicorns can die. Discord is an anomaly since he represent Chaos.

So did I miss anything Space Woona? 

Edited December 12, 2014 by WindyParadise

[sweetolebob18 728]

Replying to Snowflake Frostflame.  Even if you assume Celestia & Luna are gods (and that's a BIG if), that does NOT mean they are immortal, invincible, or invulnerable.

 

Many mythologies assume gods are born & age.  If you've ever watched Class of the Titans, Saturn is from the previous generation of gods & is father to Jupiter & grandfather to Hercules. (At least, if they follow the original myths). 

 

Norse mythology, the gods are not immortal but need to eat the magic apples grown by Can't-Recall-Her-Name to renew their youth.  Tyr (god of war) had his hand bit off by Fenris (long story) & Odin traded an eye for a drink from the Fate's Well of Wisdom.  They can even die, Loki tricked Hogun  (? god of winter) into slaying Baldur (god of summer) & almost all the gods were doomed to be slain in Ragnarok (battle at the end of the world).

 

So, even if you assume they are gods (or at least demigods), they can still die.  Admittedly, it takes a LOT to get them to take a dirt nap (season 4 finale, for instance), but IMO it can be done.

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

I assume if someone cut Celestia's head off she would die. I get the feeling that her magic has kept her alive so long. But if her head's cut off, I assume her magic abilities would not be strong enough to keep alive at that point. Same goes for any sort of fatal mutilations you can think of

[WindyParadise 59]

I assume if someone cut Celestia's head off she would die. I get the feeling that her magic has kept her alive so long. But if her head's cut off, I assume her magic abilities would not be strong enough to keep alive at that point. Same goes for any sort of fatal mutilations you can think of

 

Hence the Royal Guard? lol 

 Hmm... I wonder if Canterlot has a secret service that helps protect Equestria? 

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,302]

I hope you aren't planning an alicorn assassination. o_O

 

On topic: I'm gonna say no.  Why?  Because the likelihood that an alicorn will ever be offed in canon seems highly unlikely.  And until an alicorn is killed in-show, there's no solid evidence that they even can be killed.  But then, I think of the ponies as being immortal in general. xD  This isn't necessarily logic-based; leave me alone lol.  And even the concept of logic, where Equestria is concerned, is fairly loose.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Ziggy Belongs to RD

[WindyParadise 59]

Oh shoot, I forgot to mention the Changling. 

 The Changlings are possibly a (Discord-made?   Dark-Magical?) perversion of the original pony races and use a (Dark-Magic?) tainted version of the Crystal Ponies magic. Instead of using their own Love for others as their magic, they leech off of other ponies(Queen Chrysallis and Shining Armour) to provide them with a magical 'boost' so to speak. 

 

While they sometimes use their original auras it is much weaker than say a normal Pegasus' ability to fly. This is why they have so many wholes and bits(agh, bloody puns ) of their bodies missing. To 'lighten' the load on their weakened Magic.

[They call me Loyalty 1,948]

Sure they're mortals. Why wouldn't they?

Do you remember when Celestia was shot down by Nightmare Moon? Twilight was kinda assuming Celestia was done for good. Nightmare Moon was probably assuming the same thing, since she said there could only be only one princess in equestria, while she was Luna.

Otherwise, why wouldn't she make sure Celestia was dealt with for good? You know, shooting few more times at her sister.

Giving her sister the chance to use the elements of harmony? It doesn't make sense, from the simplicity this story plot offers.

[MozillaToast 233]

Yes, if you use a marshmallow cannon and tinfoil wrap you will deteriorate their minds, causing them to explode into confetti kittens.

[raritybelle 58]

I'm pretty sure they can be killed by a weapon of some sort but it will be hard. I mean Queen Chrysalis beat Celestia in the Canterlot Wedding part 2 and I'm pretty sure she could've killed her right there.

[WindyParadise 59]

I'm pretty sure they can be killed by a weapon of some sort but it will be hard. I mean Queen Chrysalis beat Celestia in the Canterlot Wedding part 2 and I'm pretty sure she could've killed her right there.

I got the impression Queen Chrsalis wanted to kill Celestia in a more public setting in front of any surviving ponies(and possibly the Mane 6) in Canterlot.

 

Sure they're mortals. Why wouldn't they?

Do you remember when Celestia was shot down by Nightmare Moon? Twilight was kinda assuming Celestia was done for good. Nightmare Moon was probably assuming the same thing, since she said there could only be only one princess in equestria, while she was Luna.

Otherwise, why wouldn't she make sure Celestia was dealt with for good? You know, shooting few more times at her sister.

Giving her sister the chance to use the elements of harmony? It doesn't make sense, from the simplicity this story plot offers.

I think NMM was living in a moment of satisfyingly glory at defeating her sister in battle. But you're right, the story had to be a little more simple due to it's audience that isn't an older Brony.