spoiler Is anyone else getting sick of reformed villains?

[Starflite527 24]

I've been noticing recently that almost all of Friendship is Magic's villains are getting reformed, and it's really starting to bother me. At first it was just Nightmare Moon and Discord, which I didn't mind, but then Trixie, Gilda, Diamond Tiara, Starlight Glimmer.... It's really getting out of hand. Does this bother anyone else? Also, who is your favourite reformed villain? Mine is Discord.

[Britney Biskit 55]

Not really. I like, actually like it when they turn good. Plus Me and Witney Might turn good this week. IDK the description was like, vague.

[Untitled Goose Q 5,136]

Trixie, Gilda and Diamond Tiara don't strike me as really being villains, they are really just antagonists.

 

And no, I'm not getting sick of reformation. Few shows tend to reform their antagonists at all.

[Blackshirt Brony 415]

I agree that it is becoming old quickly. But Trixie is my favorite "reformed villain."

[Kapitan zur See Hans (Daz) 883]

I think it does need to end at some point, but Diamond Tiara was a pretty expected reformation to me. I do think they should stop this trend for the most part, but I have enjoyed some of the reformations.

[Kivil 1,721]

Just sayin, wasn't there already a topic like this or am I just crazy?

[Cleverclover 1,525]

Yes, because it implies that nearly everyone can be saved, and that they all have good inside them which simply needs to be tapped into by doing nothing more than introducing them to friendship. 

 

Friendship simply cannot be the solution to every problem. 

[Megas 27,116]

Mainly because 90% they just aren't believable. I understand the show is called "Friendship is Magic", "everyone has some good in them", "it suits the show", yadda yadda yadda. But my biggest issue is that most of the villains being redeemed are more or less supervillain, tyrant, evil god status characters and are incredibly rushed making them even more out of nowhere. I mean with Starlight they had a fucking 30 second montage of her being easily forgiven by literally everyone and dancing happily with the mane 6, right after trying to change history and explaining a really, really bad motive for her ideals and plans. Hell even Sunset Shimmer, one of the better redeemed characters, had to go through an entire second movie to actually work because her initial redemption was horribly rushed and out of nowhere.

Edited January 14, 2016 by TR-8R

[Kerberossz 1,929]

Like it was said above, antigonists like Diamond Tiara and Gilda can be reformed which doesn't bother me, but villains like Discord...well, he was my favorite bad guy, but since he was reformed he is just...boring for me. For the love of god, he is the spirit of chaos. At least he should do something chaotic not just laughing with the main 6 about...things. (Luckily the rainbow power wasn't powerful enough to transform tirek into a pony-lover).

 

It was a relief to see the unreformed villains in the last episode. Seriously, I thought that Starlight remains a bad one, but the outcome was pretty neat i guess. She should be a teacher of magic, since she is more powerful than Twilight.

Yeah, i think not every villain should be reformed, but some should. 

[The Mint Pone 2,292]

Well, it's a show based on horsey friendship so i am personally alright with everyone becoming happy friends. Other than Sombra if he comes back and gets reformed i will scream XD

[Kapitan zur See Hans (Daz) 883]

Well, it's a show based on horsey friendship so i am personally alright with everyone becoming happy friends. Other than Sombra if he comes back and gets reformed i will scream XD

Indeed, as much as I like Sombra outside of the show I would never want to see him be reformed. Tbh if they have irredeemable villians like Sombra every so often then reformations can occur(As long as it isn't too extreme such as Discord who was pushing it, despite me liking that reformation) imo.

[SolyWack 482]

PROJECT: Echo, on 13 Jan 2016 - 4:09 PM, said:

Just sayin, wasn't there already a topic like this or am I just crazy?

 

Even if it was, some topics are good enough to be refreshed to get multiple people's views.

------------

 

The only question I have for the topic itself though is: What else would you have done with them?

 

No one blinks an eye when the bad guy is killed in a mature rated video game, and that has happened WAY more often than a reformed villain.

 

I also think it happens a little too often, but I tell myself, the only other way is to destroy them, imprison them, or else let them escape. Destroying them is hardly fitting for a show about friendship, imprisoning isn't too far behind, and letting them escape isn't winning.

 

The reformations have been less EoH Deus Ex Machina, so I'm okay with reformations like Starlight's or Diamond's.

[Biggybrony 244]

At least Starlight Glimmer took 4 episodes to reform, right?

[Kivil 1,721]

 

 

Even if it was, some topics are good enough to be refreshed to get multiple people's views.

 

No I mean like recently. I dunno I just may have been dreaming or something. 

[KatonRyu 1,026]

Considering this show is called Friendship is Magic it's really no surprise they go for reforming in many of the cases. Honestly, it's not even that uncommon in other series either.

 

 

But who knows, maybe one day there'll be a villain like Envy in FMA who died when Edward showed him pity.

 

 

Oh, and my favorite reformed villain is Sunset Shimmer, by a long way.

Edited January 14, 2016 by KatonRyu

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,401]

Personally I am okay with reformations. It has a sense of forgiveness which is something I really like and I think it matches the overall theme of this show really well. 

[Suukorak 354]

I'm actually for the idea of reforming villains, but the problem is all the reformations thus far have been far too easy. I think that part of this problem comes from the black-and-white simplified morals the show sometimes falls back on (fearing that kids can't handle moral ambiguity).

Now, I grant that Discord's reformation has had some rough patches, and Nightmare Moon/Luna I think kind of wanted to be reformed. But Starlight Glimmer? No way that should have been as easy as "Hey, try again." I'm sure she'd heard that before. What would have been more believable was if, after hearing the story, Twilight went and got Stardust and had him convince her to stand down. Then they might have begun to reform her. It still would have to be rough though.

But if a character *has* to be either completely good or completely bad, then a reformation would have to work like flipping a switch. Which is what we've seen in everyone but Discord.

... so make of that what you will.

[CrystalRarity 119]

incoming struggle

 

Reformation of villains is the shiniest, most lovely idea..  You know, like, isn't it the ideal?  For there to be a real villain that, rather than having to kill or imprison them, they become good.  This isn't a thing that happens but that MLP is going after it pretty much every time it has a villain is a sweet formula.  Sweet formula.  As multiple posts have already expressed, the actual carrying out of these reformations, and then proceeding with the reformed villains, isn't so wonderful.

 

 

 

I'm actually for the idea of reforming villains, but the problem is all the reformations thus far have been far too easy. I think that part of this problem comes from the black-and-white simplified morals the show sometimes falls back on (fearing that kids can't handle moral ambiguity).

 

 

Well, eeyup.  Still, imo, it's worth it...losing good villains for boring good characters.... mind is considering changing now that that's been typed...  Perhaps the show makes it too idealistic.  It's unattainable how it's shown, and while that applies in multiple places (Handling bullies, for example.), this is such a large, desirable thing, that to resolve it so unrealistically (See: Unhelpfully, 100% fantasy, 100% magic), is...is awful, i'm so articulate.  

 

To present a real, very real problem, and solve it unrealistically, and in a medium that's supposed to be teaching morals and good life lessons, is lazy and anti-inspiring (To those who recognize the occurrence in question), and.. what is it, helpless, and useless.  Ponies are happy, but the people watching with real problems, little kids even, are still stuck with their plights, and the pretense of helping with magic hurts because we can be generous, honest, kind, loyal, and giggle at the ghosties, but apparently still not solve this problem because there's no magic  (inb4 somepony saying the previous elements create or are magic.)

 

'Course there's a lot of value in presenting questions and withholding answers in entertainment, but again, MLP's got a pretense of giving advice and ending episodes having happily learned how to deal with something.  And when the writers either don't know how to really solve a problem or can't given some parameter of the show, well, mine immediate thought is don't lie and act like you can with a cardboard imitation of a solution.  but then recall the topic at hand and reformed villains, and is it worth it, for that?  a little?  ooh unsure.  in general, no (not worth it).  but on mlp, for this particular thing, is it so harmful?  would have to ask a kid.

[Suukorak 354]

@@CrystalRarity, agreed. Of course it's not good to present a false solution to a real problem, but given that most other solutions would be jail, or exile (Chrysalis!) or death, maybe it's all right.

I think the main problem is that it's treated as a G-rated equivalent of death or exile - thrown in at the end, to demonstrate that this won't happen again, rather than actually woven into the plot as a part of defeating the villain. Most of the times, the villain's already defeated when they are reformed. I was actually kind of excited when I saw (just yesterday, yeah I'm way behind) that Starlight Glimmer had to be reformed from a position of power, but that turned out to be kind of a cop-out. Ah well.

[Mr. Blue Sky 28]

I think it also depends on how likable an villain is. In cases like Discord where I actually like him better as a villain, it was disappointing to see him reformed. Diamond Tiara on the other hand, desperately needed a reformation. And she got one, since the show crew is so aware of its fanbase and what they want...which by the way is very admirable. 

 

Have they overused this reformation thing? No, not really, nor do I dislike the idea of an reformation. I can see why it bothers people (or should that be ponies) but for the most part, I'm cool with it.

[cmarston1 5,952]

Pretty much as it ruins any suspense that any future villain the show would have because all I will be thinking is that they are just going to be inevitably reformed by the end of the season.

[cybershocker455 324]

I'm fine with forgiveness as long as it makes sense.

[Shamira 13]

The show is for little girls and called Friendship is Magic, so it's fairly obvious that they'll prefer to redeem the antagonists and villains rather than continuously fight them. But, the problem comes in when they do reform the characters, the reformations are so rushed and sloppy, and it's the same for every one of them except for maybe Gilda. And the worst of these cases is Diamond Tiara, we've had to put up with over four seasons with her acting like a b****, and then they suddenly pull a 'sympathetic' story from nowhere so we feel sorry for her and forgive her for what she's done. With the other reformed characters we only see them in one episode, two parter or movie before they're getting reformed the next time we see them, not over four seasons worth of time to build up enough hate to want to burn them at the stake.

[EverEverOn 346]

I like it because it shows that people (and ponies) do change. We don't stay the same throughout our lives, and those of us who become angry at the world can eventually learn how good the world can be and that being angry isn't the way to go. Sure, not every villain should be saved in MLP, but it is a good way of showing little kids that not every villain should be hated and that they just need some help seeing the good in others and themselves.

[Riganthor 484]

I don't mind it too much as long as it is well done in the episode