spoiler season 5 finale

[Yeah ok 80]

Why does everyone hate the season 5 finale. Yeah there where some plot holes but overall I thought it was one of the better finales. What do you think?

 

Edit: I didn't realise that people liked it because all of the posts I've seen have been negative.

Edited February 24, 2016 by coolkid

[PrymeStriker 408]

.................Everyone hated the finale?

[darkshy 68]

Worst finale yet, in my opinion 

[Steve Piranha 28,877]

I liked it, except for the lame redemption of Starlight, but it was a nice finale overall

[PacificGreen 1,163]

.................Everyone hated the finale?

 

Yeah, I thought most people enjoyed it, even more so than the season 4 finale.

 

I personally prefer the season 4 finale, this one was sorta meh for me, but the concept of a twist on time travel was pretty interesting to me.

[TubeSock2018 325]

I was strongly disappointed. I wouldn't say I hated it. The buildup for Starlight was too much and the pay off wasn't that great.

The resolution felt rushed and predictable.

She was mad because she didn't have a friend. Edit: Or to be more precise, lost her one close friend due to a cutie mark taking him away. It seemed too unrelatable. We've all lost friends. But we didn't go insane like she did. It sucked, but we moved on.

 

And then she instantly goes from anti-uniqueness to suddenly singing with the mane 6.

 

If they wanted me to get emotionally invested, they should have developed her story throughout the season and then hit us with an emotional bomb.

 

Now, some people have said to me "but this is a kid's show. It can't be too complex and emotional". To that I say, no.

 

The relationship between Moondancer and Twilight felt much more natural and believable and actually tugged at my heartstrings. All in 22 minutes.

Why?

 

1. We actually saw the friendship, albeit it being a short glimpse.

When we learn Starlight's back story, we are TOLD her back story by Statlight with voice over.

With Moondancer, we got to see flashback footage with them talking. Makes the viewer relate more to see why we should feel rather than being told why we should feel.

 

#2. Moondancer's reaction felt more believable.

Starlight lost only one friend due to a cutie mark and resolved to create a town free from unique talent.

Moondancer practicality lost her closest friend as well and resolved to not bother with friends, effectively becoming a shut in.

Moondancer felt more relatable and Starlight seemed comedically over the top. Even if we never did what Moondancer did, we saw the steps and the motions. It was legitimately saddening.

 

 

So overall, while I didn't hate it (I loved the concept of sampling alternate "bad futures" ala Back to the Future II), the overall arch with Starlight was underwhelming.

Imo, season 2 continues to be the best. Season 3 had a strong end-of-the-series feel (I personally see seasons 1-3 as one story, followed by season 4 and 5 as just extra stories) and season 4's ending had an epic tone that was way better and focused than 5's. And season 1 was simple and to the point with no complaints here.

 

So imo, season 5's finale is not terribl3, but it's the weakest of the 5

Edited February 22, 2016 by pollo20x6

[AlbaTross 1,581]

I loved every minute of it, except for maybe Starlight's reformation, but even that didn't bother me that much considering it's not the most rushed *cough* Sunset Shimmer *cough*. I think it's my new favourite finale as it somehow managed to crank the epicness dial up to 11.

 

I'm pretty sure there was a thread for this same topic before this, but it seems to have been buried and I'm much too lazy to go digging for it, so I'll leave it for now.

[On-Locoweed 108]

The Season 5 finale seemed a little...busy. There was a lot of action, but it didn't seem very high-stakes. It was a little frustrating to watch Starlight fuck up RD over and over again to just have another weird, unlikely scenario unfold each time. I thought the different alternate history scenarios were a little unnecessary, seeming to serve to reintroduce all the villians of the series when, really, I'm not sure if any of them except the Nightmare Moon scenario would have even had the chance to transpire.

 

Josh Haber wrote this episode instead of Meghan McCarthy, who has typically written the Season premiers and finales, and i think this is why it feels less like the other finales and more like a longer, slightly more intense regular episode.

 

I really didn't like the final shot of Part 2, when every character was just looking right at the viewer as if it was just the crowd from Cranky and Matilda's civil union from Slice of Life who just walked out of town hall. This big ensemble shot reminds me of stage musicals when the cast comes out at the end and bows in a row, linking arms. That they are written as if they are aware of an audience is a little too cheesy, too nice for my sensibilities.

 

The whole episode, while being kind of dark at times or pushing the envelope with some scenes, is still pretty safe. This show can be intense if it wants to be, and I think it ought to have been for this episode; I was expecting some kind of gratification after the lackluster second half of the season.

 

Also, nothing tops the cathartic, action-packed, edge-of-your-seat calamity of Magical Mystery Cure, the best Season Finale so far.

Edited February 22, 2016 by On-Locoweed

[geartree 33]

I think some reason people didn't like it was because it was predictale, boring, and so sappy. I know MLP can usually be quite sappy, but usually I like the light hearted nature of the show. This episode however to me was almost cringe-worthy sappy, and the redemption was so boring compared to some of the other redemptions. Maybe because ut was more predictable then the redemption of other characters, but I still didn't really care for her change in heart.

Edited February 22, 2016 by geartree

[EquestriaGuy 1,074]

I just can't believe how hated it is! You're all such monsters!

 

 

[PacificGreen 1,163]

The Season 5 finale seemed a little...busy. There was a lot of action, but it didn't seem very high-stakes. It was a little frustrating to watch Starlight fuck up RD over and over again to just have another weird, unlikely scenario unfold each time. I thought the different alternate history scenarios were a little unnecessary, seeming to serve to reintroduce all the villians of the series when, really, I'm not sure if any of them except the Nightmare Moon scenario would have even had the chance to transpire.

 

Yeah, this is pretty much how I felt. I mentioned in another thread that I was kinda uncomfortable with the implication that "without the Mane Six, Equestria is helpless and is doomed to either be taken over by a villain or turned into a lifeless wasteland". I mean I get that they beat almost every major villain in the series (or at least played an important part in their defeat), and I'm not saying that the Mane Six never coming together should have no impact on the general well-being of Equestria. But, as another user said in that thread, it's just the fact that there's no alternative, no one else to save Equestria, that is kinda sad. Not even the princesses, other leaders, or any other ponies worthy of bearing the Elements of Harmony can help.

 

I agree with the low-stakes thing, it seemed to only affect Twilight, Spike, and Starlight in the end. Unless altering time meant that the real timeline was erased or something...

[GhostlyPudding 79]

I actually really liked it. But Starlight's reformation felt way too rushed. I loved seeing the alternate timelines, although it could have been a lot better done. C'mon, a  "rainboom never happened" plot had so much potential!

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

I very much disliked the finale. It's probably my second worst episode of the series, right after Magic Duel, for a variety of reasons.

 

1) The alternative time lines. Now first off I completely ignored the whole "How does this time travel make sense?" thing because in all time travel stories you generally suspend that. For instance in Doctor Who, touching your past self causes bat creatures from the fifth dimension to show up and devour everything. Does that make a lick of sense? Not really so I take the time travel as it goes.  The main issue with the alternative time lines is that they are just padding.  Outside of showing us what stakes Twilight has in adverting Starlight, they serve no other purpose than to be cool visuals, but they do absolutely nothing to further the plot and secondly the degrade the world around them. As Silver Quill pointed out, it makes the entire world completely depended on Twilight and her friends and shows us that they are the only important ones.  Now I will admit that these timelines are fun to watch for the spectial, seeing what would have happened if each villain had won, but they don't advance the story at all, making the two-parter have as much actual plot as a 22 minute episode, and ultimately lessens the world around them.

 

2) Starlight is OP.  Now this is plot armor, or lazy writing at it's finest, take your pick.  Starlight is able to rewrite Starswirls Time spell,  knows more about the Map than Twilight, the crazy smart study Princess that's been living there for the past season, is able to fly, AND can match an Alicorn princess in terms of a magic duel, all to make this plot work. Starlight's was touted as being a NORMAL Unicorn, sure she knew a unique spell but she was not played up as someone who could be a physical threat (well magical anyways). Now she's above Alicorn power levels because the writers can't just ax off Starlight and they need her to carry the episode's time travel plots, so she gets to be massively OP for the sake of moving the plot.

 

3) Focus only on Twilight. Now this is a problem that isn't just confined to this episode but it is far more abused here than in other two-parters.  The Mane 6 only appear in these episodes as acceded extras in the alternative time line to showcase how bad they are and at the very end to just show up and talk to Twilight. Compare this with the season opener, where ALL of the Mane 6 play a role in. Heck even Spike doesn't do much in these episodes outside of just being someone for Twilight to talk to. 

 

4) The Redemption. And this is in my mind the absolute weakest point about these episodes. Starlight's redemption is the worst in the series thus far.  Now I'm not saying Starlight couldn't have been redeemed but they way they handled it was atrocious.  For one thing, the pacing was so bad I think my neck broke from the emotional whiplash.  Starlight Glimmer, for the vast majority of these episodes as well as the entire length of The Cutie Map, was presented to us as a villain with little redeeming about her. Then we are presented with a massively weak explanation as to why Starlight turned evil, one which is too relateable for people to buy and is shown to be the ONLY reason, and suddenly we're expected to do a 180 on how we feel for Starlight and is meant to completely absolve her of ALL of her wrongdoing.  And then after all of that, she is given no punishment for what she has done, no consequences for her actions, AND is all of a sudden super-mega-ultra best friends with the Mane 6 in an over the top sappy montage that would better belong in G3.  No it doesn't work like that, especially after all the work Discord, someone who did things very similar to Starlight, had to do in order for the Mane 6 to respect him.

[GeekySonic 1,150]

I loved it. I think there were a couple missed opportunities when it comes to the alternate universes. I think it would have been a nice touch to include Trixie somewhere.

 

 

Also, how amazing would it have been to see demon Sunset Shimmer/Sci-Twi in Equestria? I'd pay money to see that.

 

The montage at the end was really cute. Made me tear up a bit. I can't complain about the episode at all.

[On-Locoweed 108]

Yeah, this is pretty much how I felt. I mentioned in another thread that I was kinda uncomfortable with the implication that "without the Mane Six, Equestria is helpless and is doomed to either be taken over by a villain or turned into a lifeless wasteland". I mean I get that they beat almost every major villain in the series (or at least played an important part in their defeat), and I'm not saying that the Mane Six never coming together should have no impact on the general well-being of Equestria. But, as another user said in that thread, it's just the fact that there's no alternative, no one else to save Equestria, that is kinda sad. Not even the princesses, other leaders, or any other ponies worthy of bearing the Elements of Harmony can help.

 

I agree with the low-stakes thing, it seemed to only affect Twilight, Spike, and Starlight in the end. Unless altering time meant that the real timeline was erased or something...

While I could headcanon all day to try to justify why Equestria would or would not function without the Mane Six, I think one must accept that "Friendship Magic" is always going to trump any threat (and is the only legitimate defense against any threat) because the moral of the show is that friendship, having friends that complete you as a person, is both necessary and desirable in one's life. This is not to say that without the Mane Six there is no such thing in Equestria as friendship, but rather the point of the Mane Six (and their being friends) being so essential to the destiny of Equestria is because the magic of friendship saves all.

 

Community, camaraderie, and faithfulness are virtues that exist in Equestria and so friends will always defeat evil, disaffected, friendless villains. The Mane Six, because they are such true, true friends, are also more powerful than Celestia because she has no friends; Luna likewise has no friends, and it seems like she's on some sort of magical probation, having little more besides mentoring fillies in their dreams. Cadance and Shining Armor aren't friends--they're lovers. The show isn't about romance, so being married is symbolic more of maturity and procreation than about advanced friendship (if you call marriage that).

 

I wouldn't call it sad that the Mane Six are Equestria's only hope (nor am I accusing you of making that argument), but I would say that it's just necessary that they are the most powerful, unstoppable force in Equestria because friendship will always win because its a good thing. Equestria, sans-Mane Six and Twilight's leadership, may not turn into a wasteland, but arguably it would be a far less desirable place to be because everyone would be empty and solipsistic- which is not a good thing.

 

In the end, I'm always skeptical to criticize the show on issues that concern friendship, because, as the title of this show would imply, making friends is good. It's magic, even. So, what better way to make friends with an enemy (an enemy who is finally another pony not unlike the main character) than to kill her with kindness. I don't agree with the narrative of Starlight's reformation, but the formula is to make friends, not punish enemies, so everyone is going to be on the same page at the end of the day.

[SteveMorison 404]

Probably the most flawed season finale, what with the time travel inconsistencies and how bastardised the character of Starlight Glimmer was. Still enjoyed the episode though.

I very much disliked the finale. It's probably my second worst episode of the series, right after Magic Duel, for a variety of reasons.

 

1) The alternative time lines. Now first off I completely ignored the whole "How does this time travel make sense?" thing because in all time travel stories you generally suspend that. For instance in Doctor Who, touching your past self causes bat creatures from the fifth dimension to show up and devour everything. Does that make a lick of sense? Not really so I take the time travel as it goes. The main issue with the alternative time lines is that they are just padding. Outside of showing us what stakes Twilight has in adverting Starlight, they serve no other purpose than to be cool visuals, but they do absolutely nothing to further the plot and secondly the degrade the world around them. As Silver Quill pointed out, it makes the entire world completely depended on Twilight and her friends and shows us that they are the only important ones. Now I will admit that these timelines are fun to watch for the spectial, seeing what would have happened if each villain had won, but they don't advance the story at all, making the two-parter have as much actual plot as a 22 minute episode, and ultimately lessens the world around them.

 

2) Starlight is OP. Now this is plot armor, or lazy writing at it's finest, take your pick. Starlight is able to rewrite Starswirls Time spell, knows more about the Map than Twilight, the crazy smart study Princess that's been living there for the past season, is able to fly, AND can match an Alicorn princess in terms of a magic duel, all to make this plot work. Starlight's was touted as being a NORMAL Unicorn, sure she knew a unique spell but she was not played up as someone who could be a physical threat (well magical anyways). Now she's above Alicorn power levels because the writers can't just ax off Starlight and they need her to carry the episode's time travel plots, so she gets to be massively OP for the sake of moving the plot.

 

3) Focus only on Twilight. Now this is a problem that isn't just confined to this episode but it is far more abused here than in other two-parters. The Mane 6 only appear in these episodes as acceded extras in the alternative time line to showcase how bad they are and at the very end to just show up and talk to Twilight. Compare this with the season opener, where ALL of the Mane 6 play a role in. Heck even Spike doesn't do much in these episodes outside of just being someone for Twilight to talk to.

 

4) The Redemption. And this is in my mind the absolute weakest point about these episodes. Starlight's redemption is the worst in the series thus far. Now I'm not saying Starlight couldn't have been redeemed but they way they handled it was atrocious. For one thing, the pacing was so bad I think my neck broke from the emotional whiplash. Starlight Glimmer, for the vast majority of these episodes as well as the entire length of The Cutie Map, was presented to us as a villain with little redeeming about her. Then we are presented with a massively weak explanation as to why Starlight turned evil, one which is too relateable for people to buy and is shown to be the ONLY reason, and suddenly we're expected to do a 180 on how we feel for Starlight and is meant to completely absolve her of ALL of her wrongdoing. And then after all of that, she is given no punishment for what she has done, no consequences for her actions, AND is all of a sudden super-mega-ultra best friends with the Mane 6 in an over the top sappy montage that would better belong in G3. No it doesn't work like that, especially after all the work Discord, someone who did things very similar to Starlight, had to do in order for the Mane 6 to respect him.

But remember Starlight is a cute pony and Discord is a scary dragon-like thing so of course that's how it works.

[cuteycindyhoney 13,284]

I loved it. I thought the causality erosion displayed in the multiple time jumps leading to a final wasteland was quit effective. I'm now reading Stephan Baxter's "The Time Ships".  I think the writers may have read it too. They did a nice job of bringing the multiplicity of unchecked time travel down to a level understandable to the base audience.

(I'm a huge fan of time travel stories!)

Some didn't like it, but I love a good redemption story as well!

 

(I think I may have over analyzed things, but so be it!)

[Singe 2,109]

My only main issue was making the point that Twilight Sparkle is the chosen one being greater than the world.

 

I alongside some others was expecting other ponies to stand up when TS wasn't there. Heck, we weren't even treated to what failed Twilight Sparkle was doing in those other timelines.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Singe

[EquestriaGuy 1,074]

There need to be a Cutie Re-mark part 3, where Starlight goes on trial for bringing a dozen parallel universes to war, chaos, and extinction. Sure Twilight's timeline is fine, but we saw something like 7 others get turned to shit. Those worlds are absolutely still there, and the random, mysterious purple alicorn who said would save them hopped into a portal and never appeared again. What's also thought provoking is that the universe we know isn't an ideal universe itself. It's technically just another tainted one, this one's imperfection being Starlight was able to come to power and do the damage she did. 

[PacificGreen 1,163]

While I could headcanon all day to try to justify why Equestria would or would not function without the Mane Six, I think one must accept that "Friendship Magic" is always going to trump any threat (and is the only legitimate defense against any threat) because the moral of the show is that friendship, having friends that complete you as a person, is both necessary and desirable in one's life. This is not to say that without the Mane Six there is no such thing in Equestria as friendship, but rather the point of the Mane Six (and their being friends) being so essential to the destiny of Equestria is because the magic of friendship saves all.

 

Community, camaraderie, and faithfulness are virtues that exist in Equestria and so friends will always defeat evil, disaffected, friendless villains. The Mane Six, because they are such true, true friends, are also more powerful than Celestia because she has no friends; Luna likewise has no friends, and it seems like she's on some sort of magical probation, having little more besides mentoring fillies in their dreams. Cadance and Shining Armor aren't friends--they're lovers. The show isn't about romance, so being married is symbolic more of maturity and procreation than about advanced friendship (if you call marriage that).

 

I wouldn't call it sad that the Mane Six are Equestria's only hope (nor am I accusing you of making that argument), but I would say that it's just necessary that they are the most powerful, unstoppable force in Equestria because friendship will always win because its a good thing. Equestria, sans-Mane Six and Twilight's leadership, may not turn into a wasteland, but arguably it would be a far less desirable place to be because everyone would be empty and solipsistic- which is not a good thing.

 

In the end, I'm always skeptical to criticize the show on issues that concern friendship, because, as the title of this show would imply, making friends is good. It's magic, even. So, what better way to make friends with an enemy (an enemy who is finally another pony not unlike the main character) than to kill her with kindness. I don't agree with the narrative of Starlight's reformation, but the formula is to make friends, not punish enemies, so everyone is going to be on the same page at the end of the day.

 

I see where you're going with this, but one would think friendship can survive (and ponies being friends could still be a powerful force) in Equestria even if the Mane Six never got together.

 

I dunno, maybe the Mane Six getting their marks at the same time and being Equestria's constant saviors is some magical destiny/prophecy thing, or divine intervention.

 

But it still kinda makes the whole "it's not just my friendships that are important" that Twilight said, kinda moot.

[Zeal Crown 194]

Of what I could pick up from, people seemed to not like the finale because it wanted us to feel for Starlight Glimmer, but we had nothing about her to feel. It was meant to be super tragic, but it wasn't exactly set up properly.

 

I still loved it though, and I love Starlight Glimmer anyways.

[On-Locoweed 108]

I see where you're going with this, but one would think friendship can survive (and ponies being friends could still be a powerful force) in Equestria even if the Mane Six never got together.

 

I dunno, maybe the Mane Six getting their marks at the same time and being Equestria's constant saviors is some magical destiny/prophecy thing, or divine intervention.

 

But it still kinda makes the whole "it's not just my friendships that are important" that Twilight said, kinda moot.

 

Friendship would most certainly exist in Equestria otherwise, but so far only the Mane Six have a bond of friendship powerful enough that enables them to wield the Elements of Harmony and play off one another's strengths to be a team of superheroes (and I'm not talking about Power Ponies here), and this is something not everypony is capable of--particularly, because other ponies were not fated to do so.

 

You hit the nail right on its head, mentioning destiny there. The logic of the fictional universe in MLP:FiM relies on destiny to dictate every significant action that occurs in the series. One may think this brings into question the legitimacy of the Mane Six's friendship, since it appears to be artificially sewn together by fate rather than happening naturally. However, if you believe in destiny anyway, then their becoming friends makes perfect sense and was supposed to happen as easily as water flows downhill.

 

I cannot stress enough destiny, destiny, destiny, fate, fate, predetermination. This is the fuel for all things in the connections between the Mane Six from the Cutie Mark Sonic Rainboom onward. It was all supposed to happen just the way it did and continues to. Some episodes along the way have emphasized that friendship is awesome, sometimes magic one might say, and sometimes magic can't be explained (tough shit, right?). The Mane Six share a friendship that other ponies can aspire to, yet will always be a little different because it serves a grand function in the history of Equestria. Not only are the Mane Six agents in the fate of Equestria, they are the fate of Equestria now. 

 

The model of fate controlling all actions and events in Equestria will inevitably raise problems and exceptions sometimes for which there is no easy or believable answer. In fact, whole narratives in the show can potentially be unraveled by finding holes in the logic of predetermination as it is presented in FiM. But, this show is fiction, and mistakes will come up because it is authored by a number of people who have varying interest in keeping a consistent continuity and writing fate as hand-waving any illogical blemish that might come up. I think destiny, or "divine intervention" as you put it, is the best way to make sense of the events in the show, the special friendship of the Mane Six, and, hey, friendship in general. Equestria is a weird place and putting it under a microscope proves it weirder and weirder.

 

For all this effort and all this energy, I still feel like my arguments are only educated guesses at best. The story of Friendship is Magic is not yet done being told. There is still a lot of ground to cover and a lot of questions that may not get answered or even need answers (But hey, what are headcanons for?). After the show and movie are both complete we can look at the whole body of work and make sense of it, but for now I feel like some of what we know to be true could get undermined in a flash and that's the way it is. I'll stop before I get too fatalistic.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

I'm in a weird situation here.
I overall found it a decent episode but a TERRIBLE finale.


What i mean is that I found to be a good "normal" type of episode, like I could see this being a Twilight episode for the season. But for a finale? HELL NO. A finale should be far better than this; A finale should celebrate the mane six and what they've learned over the season, touch on how they've grown, and what makes each of them special and how they've grown. Like how in the S4 finale they touched on how they'd helped others learn about friendship with the keys, they had the mane six interact a good bit, and they did some nice continuity building, focusing on the relationships of the mane six with discord and each other.

 

This one just did not deliver on anything that a finale should do. This was a giant glorified Twilight episode; And while twilight epsiodes aren't BAD, they should NOT be what a finale is about! I mean, come on, Even twilight's kingdom was better than THIS. The other 5 were cameos at best :/

 

As such, it feels like the season had no finale; like there's a giant hole at the end and we're just waiting for the missing piece.

 

Adding onto that, I HATED how they gave starlight super plot armor to make her a threat. I HATE plot armor. Contrast the premier where she's running scared at the end and not a threat without her OP hax cutie mark removal spell and here where she's suddenly Magical Goku "BECAUSE REASONS" just to make her a match for twilight. Bleh.

 

 

 

snip

agreed on pretty much all point.
While I actually found it decently entertaining, I still agree with all the issues you had, and find it rubs me the wrong way in a number of ways.

 

 

 

The rumors about Josh Haber taking over for McCarthy REALLY are putting me at unease for S6, because this coupled with FG doesn't make me think he can do big 2 parters (or movies) very well.

[manic 121]

I didn't hate it. I think it could have used an episode or 2 more, or heck could have been the running story arc for the entire season.

[Odyssey 5,713]

The reason I dislike The Cutie Re-mark is for two things -- Starlight's redemption and the alternate timelines.

 

So with Starlight's redemption, it's not so much that I don't want to see her reformed. As a matter of fact, I don't care whether she gets reformed or not. Rather, it's the execution of how it's played out. Her backstory wasn't bad per se, but with how indirect it is, it gives the audience an idea that Starlight is overreacting. If they've given more time or perhaps given her another bad memory about cutie marks, then Starlight's actions would be a little more justified.

 

I really dislike the alternate timelines more so than the redemption, however. Sure, it's progressive for the franchise and all, but here's the thing. One of the core things in the My Little Pony series is magic and spells, as well as many other fantasy elements. To see ponies in garbage like the Sombra timeline where everybody is sad and the opposite of magic doesn't capture how special MLP:FiM is. If I were to give a newcomer a first episode to watch, it would definitely not be this one, because if I did, it would give them a misleading idea on this is what the series is like and would set them up for failure.

 

However, not everybody hates the finale. It's something I don't want to ever watch again, but if people like it, then that makes me happy. You can't do other people's thinking for them and feel saddened that there are people who don't like it.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Odyssey