Queen Chrysalis: Truly evil or just misunderstood?

[Hive King 1,998]

@@n00bert,

You haven't seen the thousands of people who "She's just misunderstood" and "The ponies are racist assholes"

@,

Rather selfish for her, but a good explanation. Sort of like a vampire draining life because they can't stand death? 

[Jammo 986]

I never got this either.

Let's say for the sake of sake of argument she just wants to feed her subjects. That's understandable. Why all the deception? Why use violence? Her methods are what make her evil, not necessarily her motives. (Though there is the argument that Canterlot was attacked out of greed and gluttony, not survival)

[Malinter 3,064]

i think its like how if we see a tiger kill a bunny its not evil its nature

but if a human does it he's a complete and utter bastard.

 

i think thats the whole "shes not evil" thing stems from

[Theo 24]

Actually it's possible that Chrysalis isn't evil, not as evil as Sombra seems to be for example.

First, we all know that she tried to invade Ponyville to feed her subjects; Sombra may have tried to get the Crystal Empire for his own benefit and glory (I say "may", because we don't actually know a lot of things about him)

 

She failed the way we know. And she thinks that she owes this defeat to Twilight (I think she's mistaken but that's not the point).

That's why she wanted to destroy her. But having a grudge against somepony doesn't mean being evil.

 

That's why I understand why people think Chrysalis is not evil.

[Castle Bleck 19,183]

She comes across as a Pragmatic Villain ("Food for my subjects = a healthy army for me."), honestly.

[n00bert 18]

@@n00bert,

You haven't seen the thousands of people who "She's just misunderstood" and "The ponies are racist assholes"

 

I see...

 

That is why I am n00bert.

[Castle Bleck 19,183]

@@n00bert,

You haven't seen the thousands of people who "She's just misunderstood" and "The ponies are racist assholes"

@,

Rather selfish for her, but a good explanation. Sort of like a vampire draining life because they can't stand death? 

 

I used to honestly believe the whole "misunderstood" gimmick...then I took an arrow to the knee then she mauled a cat to death just to f*** with the CMC in the comics.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Anti-Villain

[Hive King 1,998]

@,

Not even, she outright says "Equestria has more love than any place I've ever been too. My changelings will be able to devour so much of it, that we will get more powerful than we ever dreamed"

 

The way it is phrased doesn't make it sound like she's starving, she just wants to buff up her army via life draining. @@Malinter,  

Chrysalis killed a kitten just for the sake of it and left someone to starve to death, she's a sadist

[Magic Man 221]

This again? Mate, trust me when you say you are not the first to bring this up. What you point out is a case of the fans using the Draco in Leather Pants trope on her. Let me drop you this quote about her on tvtropes regarding this particular trope:

 

 

 

• Queen Chrysalis. "She just wanted to feed her children!" say the fans. While she did mention feeding her subjects, she put more focus on gathering power for herself, while laughing cruelly, and then proceeds to enslave all of Canterlot; she doesn't display the slightest shred of remorse for any of her actions and seems entirely incapable of empathy. There is also the fact that there is no canon evidence of the Changelings being her children; it is often used by authors in order to cloy as much syampathy as they possibly can from the readers.
  • The Changeling race as a whole also gets the Leather Pants treatment, mostly due to the implications of Blue and Orange Morality that comes naturally with Emotion Eaters, with some Just Following Orders mixed in for good measure.

[FNGRpony 655]

Oh ponies are racist.  Anyone remember that dr from secret to my access?

The zecora thing,  The luna thing.  that being said, the changelings are evil (hi ^^).

 

As for whom ever said malice makes bad guys compelling, why I agree with that, it's not the only truth.

 

I am waiting for a bad guy on MLP who is mis understood.  someone who did get a bad hand and was forced to play it.

It's ironic, it's interesting.

And it doesn't exist right now LOL out side of fanon.  I could see how it might tire on people because of fanon ideas but i'd like to the staff tackel it.

 

I've seen the idea that Chyselias use to be a pony alicorn, that some horrible magic warped and twisted her and her people.

Even if that's true i fail to see how that lets her off the hook for being evil.

[takai 1,060]

I'd say she was the most clever of all the villains. I'm still waiting for her return for revenge. It's going to be great.

[FNGRpony 655]

I'd say she was the most clever of all the villains. I'm still waiting for her return for revenge. It's going to be great.

you mean just standing there as she and her subjects are blasted away?

Or not just having shinning armor lower the sheild?

Dismising the power of love despite her and her army of hoozets sustain on the stuff, not to mention the power of love helped her take down celestial?

 

Oh yeah clever that one ^^.

[Hive King 1,998]

@@Magic Man,

Sombra or Nightmare Moon(though Luna does) doesn't get that treatment anywhere near as much though. 

@@takai,

She wasn't really clever, her own sadism and arrogance was only exceeded by Discord's. Her reaction to the love shield "Come at me bro". Her acting as Cadence was also terrible, if any of the ponies had a lick of common sense, she'd be screwed 

[GenderIsAnIllusion 2,177]

Even if she was trying to feed her troops.... Couldn't she have just bucking asked?.... I mean it's not like Celstia would object to it, as long as it could be done with out harming her subjects.....

[Hive King 1,998]

@,

The classic excuse is that the ponies are racist, Celestia is evil(though this is used for Luna fics as well), or it she needed food now 

[Gary S. 102]

To Chrysalis' defence:

On TV, Chrysalis and the Changelings were the bad guys, but it was still okay and passable for a kid's show. I mean, we never saw the harmful side effects of love draining, maybe except of Shining Armor's migraines. I can't clearly tell, if these are just the side effects of Chrysalis' mind control spell. It wasn't clear either, how changelings would treat their captured food source or what Chrysalis was about to do with Celestia.

The whole stuff about kidnapping was dark, though.

 

But then the comics came....uh oh. The draining of love didn't look less than draining of life force. Chrysalis talks about destroying Twilight and kills a kitty. Changelings almost treat their victims like the Aliens of Giger do. I honestly don't see a way to sympathize with them anymore. Kids won't really notice, but the series actually went totally grimdark, if you consider the comics as canon.

Sunset Shimmer wanted to kill either and maybe Sombra (who enslaves, also kills?) and NM (maybe she had tricks for eternal night life? ruling over a dead country sounds weird to me), but it wasn't so explicit as with the changelings.

 

In short: TV Chryssie is evil, but still likable. Comic Chryssie...omg just kill her and her minions like Sombra. Just don't leave her behind, to let her break free again. That's...dumb xD

Edited January 17, 2014 by Gary S.

[pinkiefan1287 610]

Even if she was trying to feed her troops.... Couldn't she have just bucking asked?.... I mean it's not like Celstia would object to it, as long as it could be done with out harming her subjects.....

 

Most likely when the Changelings eat love they are killing the ponies. Why else would they need to attack.

 

 

@,

The classic excuse is that the ponies are racist, Celestia is evil(though this is used for Luna fics as well), or it she needed food now 

 

How are the ponies racist and how is Celestia evil? Where did that come from?

[Hive King 1,998]

@@pinkiefan1287,

For ponies are racist, I have no clue where this comes from. Ponies are cowards, but not racist.

 

As for Celestia being evil, the whole Trollestia thing plus Luna's fandom has to come up with some way to demonize Celestia and praise Luna, the Chrysalis redeemers just took the idea for their own.

 

I've seen a genocidal Celestia, a Celestia who was manipulating Twilight the whole time, and a Ceelstia who hunted Changelings while laughing because she found it funny

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

@@pinkiefan1287,

For ponies are racist, I have no clue where this comes from. Ponies are cowards, but not racist.

 

As for Celestia being evil, the whole Trollestia thing plus Luna's fandom has to come up with some way to demonize Celestia and praise Luna, the Chrysalis redeemers just took the idea for their own.

 

I've seen a genocidal Celestia, a Celestia who was manipulating Twilight the whole time, and a Ceelstia who hunted Changelings while laughing because she found it funny

When was Celestia hunting changelings? I don't remember such a thing. What would Celestia gain from having Twilight replace her?

[Hive King 1,998]

When was Celestia hunting changelings? I don't remember such a thing. What would Celestia gain from having Twilight replace her?

No, I'm referring to the fanfics where Chrysalis is painted as an innocent and misguided victim of circumstance and Celestia is an evil tyrant.

 

For some reason, Luna is always the good guy but never the bad guy in fanfic

Edited January 17, 2014 by Evil Dragon Master

[Scootalove 10,684]

I don't understand why they say that Chrysalis isn't evil at all. I really think that she had no sympathy, also her actions to take over all of Equestria with her army of Changelings justified that all she wanted to do was feed on love and take over. Call it what you want.

[FNGRpony 655]

No, I'm referring to the fanfics where Chrysalis is painted as an innocent and misguided victim of circumstance and Celestia is an evil tyrant.

 

For some reason, Luna is always the good guy but never the bad guy in fanfic

 

Because on the show they never let luna do anything.

The season premere was an event about her,

and she never even got to speak.

[Singe 2,109]

They're parasites, which makes them natural enemies of the ponies and any other thing that is their food. When they eat, it tortures the being by weakening and inflicting pain.

 

I'm going on a limb and say that Chrysalis and the Changlings are likely designed from a monster concept in Dungeons and Dragons. They're just evil by nature and have no place in the natural order of the world.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Singe

[Guest]

No, I'm referring to the fanfics where Chrysalis is painted as an innocent and misguided victim of circumstance and Celestia is an evil tyrant.

 

For some reason, Luna is always the good guy but never the bad guy in fanfic

Considering we don't know the back story between Celestia and Chrysalis or ponies and changelings at all, it is plausible to say that they could be victims of circumstance, or they could be assholes. There's not enough evidence to say definitely either way. However one thing is certain: they eat love. This being a fact; it's more than likely they need it to survive, so regardless of any specific dialogue from Chrysalis (who may just be acting the way she is out of bitterness and jealousy. I mean it's made quite clear that ponies live in a paradise in comparison to her "kingdom") changelings want to devour love to survive one way or another. I wouldn't say they are evil for that reason. I mean it seems like thirsting for love is instinctual to them, which probably is what drives them to thirst for more.

 

Building an army when you have to feed on such a thing becomes crucial to getting more food. When your only food source is love, people are not just going to let you "have" that, you more or less have to take it. Is what she doing "right" by our standards? Probably not, however she and her kind can not help their design. They do not wish to die, which is natural.

[Shadow Raikou 3]

Okay. If you've seen Lion King 2, do you know the Outlands? Yes, these changelings do not live in a paradise, as mentioned above. Okay. Ponies are scared of changelings, this must be sure. Even before they attacked, an insect pony will creep anypony out. Added with the fact that they eat love, Changelings would've been shunned as monsters in ancient and modern Equestria alike. Regarded as monsters, to extend. To live in isolation from the rest of society, it would be hard. No actual ponies would equal no actual food. It is unknown if love can be extracted from animals, so I'm going with the fact they need ponies to survive. This all leads to one point.

 

Changelings do not get much food. Now, if they were animalistic hive minds, the Queen would send the workers to find food. Even if she did, they must have come to know of Equestria. But we know changelings are sentient, so they must have looked AT the Queen to give them food. This is seen in Equestria too, as ponies ask the Princesses for help in times of need. 

 

She had to feed herself and her subjects. The way she did it was indeed evil, but the fact remains that she HAD to. 

Edited January 18, 2014 by Shadow Raikou