spoiler Can we please stop hating on Starlight?

[Ninjaed 526]

Encasing Twilight and Spike in crystal and then allowing them to fall to their deaths wasn't trying to kill them?

 

Then Twilight is guilty of this as well, since she used the very same spell... And what did Starlight do when she encased Twilight and Spike? She talked. About how she was suffering - because of Twilight. Not saying Starlight was right, or that she was right to do what she did, on the contrary. But she never intended to kill Twilight or Spike. This is a misconception, so please, don't judge her on the false fact that she attempted murder (and actually regicide, to boot).

 

 

You can explain her actions away if you wish, but it won't change the fact that these actions are what left people feel indifferent or unsatisfied with her reformation. She clearly had a lot to make up for. The mane six clearly needed some time to forgive her and build a relationship. She should not have received forgiveness instantly, especially since Discord didn't. 

 

And there's still the matter that, despite deciding to make a commitment to become a better pony, she decides to squander her goodwill by proving that Twilight had indeed been far too hasty in trusting her by mind-controlling the ponies that she was supposed to be spending time with. Because that was a far more convenient option to her than simply taking the time to get to know them.

 

And I have to say, I don't see why the mane five have to be forced into friendship with her after something like that. I mean, I'd like to think I'm a forgiving guy, but if you're asking me to befriend someone who has willingly stolen away my free will and forced me to become a slave, then you're just crazy. Besides, I don't think Starlight needs them anyway, and vice versa. Especially if she does not respect or care about them. As far as friends goes, she has Twilight, Spike, Sunburst and Trixie. All ponies whom I believe she never would have mind-controlled for her own benefit. 

 

Her reformation was badly handled, I think most agree on that. It was meant to be another case of the butterfly effect, but they failed to highlight it... I just roll with it, but wish it had been handled better. So instead, I'm just hoping for an episode where they'll explore how losing Sunburst made her (I suppose) lonely andemotionaly scarred, and how it led her to become a control freak, so that she'd be sure people wouldn't leave her again.

 

As for the goodwill... Yeah, no defending her there. That's one of her flaws. But then again, it is a character's flaws that make a character interesting. Twilight wouldn't have needed to watch over her if she had understood all that already. Interesting doesn't have to mean likeable though, so if you dislike her for this, I'm fine with this. You'd be disliking Starlight for being Starlight, without misconceptions about her character.

 

And lastly... You're right. I would have trouble befriending someone who stole my free will too, which is why Twilight is a model of friendship and forgiveness here. And you're also right for the next point - Starlight and the Mane 5 are not friends yet. Acquaintances, but not friends. Starlight wouldn't have used her spell on Twilight. I'm expecting dedicated episodes where she'll gradualy befriend each of them. She'll learn that not everyone has the same tastes, meaning that what worked for one pony might not work for another pony. Each is unique, and she should consider them as such. That's one lesson I'm hoping to see her learn, and am eager to see how Hasbro will handle it!

[Limestone-Pie 188]

The fact of the matter is that people in the MLP community have proven time and again that they don't like change of the status quo. Adding in Starlight with the main cast was a risky choice, but I feel that she really does shine as her own unique character that provides many more story opportunities. I personally love Glimmy, but just because Hasbro decided to keep her around doesn't mean people have to like her by default. I just tell people to like what they like and don't like what they don't like, just as long as they're not shoving it down my throat I'm fine.

[Allen 1,387]

Of course I like Starlight Glimmer after her redemption in the 5th season finale. I do want her in the future episodes after the 6th season is finished!

[Ragland Tiger 3,420]

datglim.png

 

She just wants people to like her

Simple and profound is better than shallow and complex

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

Her reformation was badly handled, I think most agree on that. It was meant to be another case of the butterfly effect, but they failed to highlight it... I just roll with it, but wish it had been handled better. So instead, I'm just hoping for an episode where they'll explore how losing Sunburst made her (I suppose) lonely andemotionaly scarred, and how it led her to become a control freak, so that she'd be sure people wouldn't leave her again.

 

And lastly... You're right. I would have trouble befriending someone who stole my free will too, which is why Twilight is a model of friendship and forgiveness here. And you're also right for the next point - Starlight and the Mane 5 are not friends yet. Acquaintances, but not friends. Starlight wouldn't have used her spell on Twilight. I'm expecting dedicated episodes where she'll gradualy befriend each of them. She'll learn that not everyone has the same tastes, meaning that what worked for one pony might not work for another pony. Each is unique, and she should consider them as such. That's one lesson I'm hoping to see her learn, and am eager to see how Hasbro will handle it!

 

 

To be honest I would not hold my breath on that one. I suspect MLP is going to do another season like 4, where the episodes are going to link up in some subtle building leading up to the film. I could be way off obviously, but I just have this hunch.

 

That being said, even if they don't, I just don't think they are going to want to dive too much deeper into her psyche or state of mind. I know everyone loves to debate Starlight and whether she is awesome or trash, but I just don't see it coming within the context of the show. They touch upon darker issues, and they deal with some stronger issues, but they  deal with it usually either too sloppily or too hastily leading to a sensation they would have been better to just not touch it at all. I don't blame the writers for it overall because I know they have 22 minutes to work with, a lot of people looking over their shoulders questioning this and that, and then the final lord and master over all things MLP Hasbro putting in their two cents about how any one thing aired may or may not affect their product and how it will be received. I think they are pretty generous in how much room they give the writers to work with, but I think dwelling on what makes Starlight tick will just not happen much if at all.

 

For everyone getting upset about how she mind controlled the Mane 5 for example, there were an untold amount of viewers who just laughed at the zany catastrophes that ensued and did not go any deeper than that... and that is what the show and writers are aiming at... sure they want to tell some stories and they want to throw some stuff out there for ALL the fans to enjoy equally but the fact is more often than not they are going to take the road of least resistance and just aim for putting out episodes they feel people will want to laugh with and just have fun, even if that particular story does not necessarily amount to fun with each individual viewer. They have shown they can do solid humor and slice of life based episodes, and they have done pretty solid action adventure episodes as well... but their track record for dealing with character complexity and emotional fall outs is really spotty at best. Mostly it is the fans having to peace it all together and make sense of it to the best of their abilities.

 

I think the only chance anyone will have at getting more deeply into the character of Starlight will be through the comics since they are semi-canon and seem to have a bit more free reign to explore ideas and plot holes not presented in the show.

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,303]

Can we, as a fandom, "stop hating on" the Mane Six first?  Can we, though?  Sure, I see people condemning Starlight, but they've honestly got far more - and better - ammunition than they've ever had for most other cast members.  And yet, I see the condemnation of this or that Mane Six (often depending on which season it is) over the smallest fucking things.  Starlight, during her time-traveling temper tantrum, reduced Equestria to a desolate landscape.  Presumably and possibly devoid of habitation.  And some people are able to reconcile that with whatever development they feel has happened in season six.  "But, oh, this Mane Six member said something mean this one time; I hate them now."  I don't...  There aren't enough facepalm memes.

 

Starlight did something that was actually bad; it would make more sense to me had she never been "reformed."  I think she makes a far better villain.  You can like Starlight all you want; I'm not in charge of how you feel.  But I don't want to see you bashing Rainbow, Pinkie, Fluttershy, Applejack, Twilight, or Rarity over something relatively insignificant unless you preface your criticism with the words, "I am a massive hypocrite."

[bluseymoe 258]

Somebody needs to make a Poochie edit of her at some point, and EQD should use it as the header image for when they stream the finale again. I know they wouldn't because it would probably start a shitstorm, but that image needs to be a thing.

 

Just shut up and let the mane 6 go to the fireworks factory already, Poochie Glimmer. You're people need you back on your home world.

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,303]

 

 

So with such a negative fandom we just have to kind of accept when a new character isn't liked despite not really being that bad...at all.

She brainwashed an entire community because a bookshelf almost fell on her.  But it didn't, and her bestest buddy moved.  Her bestest buddy whom she made no effort whatsoever, for years, to go and see again.  She didn't like that someone didn't like her brainwashing the aforementioned community.  She went on a time-traveling temper tantrum; endangering and potentially dooming numerous futures and Equestrias.  She deliberately and maliciously removed a vital factor from Equestria's present day and its then-uncertain future, resulting in war and, in one instance, a desolate and, at best, abandoned landscape.

 

I don't necessarily mind people liking her.  I mind people acting like she's the nicest and most horribly misunderstood pony in the world.  This is NOT the case.  People like super villains and serial killers in entertainment, but they don't typically go out of their way to paint those characters as misunderstood bastions for good.  The impression I get there is, "This character does awful things, but I like [such and such] about them.  I just can't help myself."  As opposed to, "This character wasn't responsible for the things they were responsible for, ignore that and focus on this other character that didn't come to a complete stop at a stop sign."  Real development and reformation aren't things that occur during a handful of episodes.  We're talking long haul and handled-with-care.  I'm not saying I even expect that from the show, but we definitely haven't seen it.  So maybe everyone stop pretending like we have?

[SunsetBaconDrive 169]

I know people are tired of Transformers comparisons, but both are Hasbro IPs soooo....

 

Starlight Glimmer=Rodimus Prime?

 

I am not hardcore G1 Transformers fan, but I know Rodimus is despised. 

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

It was meant to be another case of the butterfly effect, but they failed to highlight it...

 

 

 Thank you, just for bringing this up. Most people seem to miss this, which I can't even blame them because the episode puts it's sole focus almost entirely on Starlight losing Sunburst, but the rest of the episode very much sets this up. Losing Sunburst alone didn't make Starlight go totally Cutie Mark Crazy over-night, it's just the starting point. An event that affected everything she did as her life continued which eventually lead her to what we see in season 5.

 

 

 

I'm just hoping for an episode where they'll explore how losing Sunburst made her (I suppose) lonely andemotionaly scarred, and how it led her to become a control freak, so that she'd be sure people wouldn't leave her again.

 

 I want this too, an episode giving some more explanation, showing Starlight going a bit more crazy as time goes on, anything to get the point across that it wasn't just that one single thing, even if it was the most notable event to her. Even if it wouldn't make people sympathetic, at least it would be easier to understand then.

 

 

 

But I don't want to see you bashing Rainbow, Pinkie, Fluttershy, Applejack, Twilight, or Rarity over something relatively insignificant unless you preface your criticism with the words, "I am a massive hypocrite."

 

Okay, I love Starlight. But I hate this too. "Reformed villains that tried to destroy Equestria? Sure, I'll forgive you! But Pinkie said a mean thing once, she's unforgivable to me!", like...If you can forgive the legit bad guys, why can't you forgive the ponies who made little mistakes? You can dislike any mane six all you want, and like any villain you want, there's a lot of reasons to like or dislike any character, but despising Rainbow for being arrogant, but being entirely accepting of all Discord's crap just cause he's funny is just strange.

Edited October 10, 2016 by BasementGlimmer

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,303]

 

 

Okay, I love Starlight. But I hate this too. "Reformed villains that tried to destroy Equestria? Sure, I'll forgive you! But Pinkie said a mean thing once, she's unforgivable to me!", like...If you can forgive the legit bad guys, why can't you forgive the ponies who made little mistakes? You can dislike any mane six all you want, and like any villain you want, there's a lot of reasons to like or dislike any character, but despising Rainbow for being arrogant, but being entirely accepting of all Discord's crap just cause he's funny is just strange.

Exactly.  People will say what amounts to, "I expect better from the Mane Six," but it's like everything good about a particular Mane Six pony suddenly melts away the instant they do something that bugs a viewer.  Nopony's perfect, and I'm not expecting perfect, anyway.  I honestly don't even hate or "hate" Starlight Glimmer, but I can't say that I like her, either.  Many of my complaints stem more from how the fandom acts or has reacted to everything.  The meanest, honestest thing I can probably say is: Starlight is fighting an uphill battle that she might never win, and I can't say I'm particularly interested in seeing her win it.  But if I'm really annoyed by someone, they probably aren't a pony.

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

I guess for me I don't really see the hatred, but I don't know. I honestly like her and found her to be a interesting villain and find her to be a interesting supporting character.

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

 

 

Exactly.  People will say what amounts to, "I expect better from the Mane Six," but it's like everything good about a particular Mane Six pony suddenly melts away the instant they do something that bugs a viewer.  Nopony's perfect, and I'm not expecting perfect, anyway.

 

The show is based heavily around learning lessons and morals, if the main characters never messed up, then what lessons or morals are there to learn? It's just strange to me how mad and unforgiving people can be in general, especially towards fictional characters. I guess the "Good guys" aren't supposed to screw up? They should know how to be "good", seems to be the idea. If they ever fail to be good, it's a problem, even when they learn their lesson.

 

 But if I can forgive Starlight for ripping apart the fabric of time and space to get revenge on Twilight, and forgive Discord for hypnotizing ponies, trying to send a party guest to another dimension, and teaming up with Tirek, it shouldn't be hard to forgive Rarity for pushing her friends to work too hard after getting her fabric stolen, or Rainbow Dash for sabotaging winter to try and keep her beloved pet.

 

 Funny enough, I actually do see some of this aimed at Starlight now too. Some people seem more angered by her more recent mistakes, even her little ones, than her actual past villainous deeds. I guess now that she's reformed, she should always know better, and every bad thing she does, no matter how small it may be is worse because she's supposed to be good now.

[Ninjaed 526]

Haters need 3 servings of hatred a day, morning, noon and evening.

 

It's a bit sad, as it also happens IRL. When someone (a friend, your significant other, ...) makes a mistake, some will react the exact same way. That's part of why I love MLP, they actually do forgive and ponies are just so loving and loveable, it's...! *cuteness overload*

[Celli 4,339]

The fact of the matter is that people in the MLP community have proven time and again that they don't like change of the status quo. Adding in Starlight with the main cast was a risky choice, but I feel that she really does shine as her own unique character that provides many more story opportunities. I personally love Glimmy, but just because Hasbro decided to keep her around doesn't mean people have to like her by default. I just tell people to like what they like and don't like what they don't like, just as long as they're not shoving it down my throat I'm fine.

Wrong.

Change can be surprising yes, and some people may not like what's been changed, but the fact of the matter is that when change is done poorly, it will be poorly received, and rightfully so.

Starlight Glimmer's redemption was rushed, and therefore, it was poorly done, thusly, change that's not good. It has nothing to do with what people don't want to see.

[ChikaChan 7,326]

Is ok to share your opinions about her ^^ just as long as it doesn't get all out of control! Dx like a peaceful protest turns into a full scale riot! D:<

Edited October 10, 2016 by Princess Moony

[Ninjaed 526]

Wrong.

Change can be surprising yes, and some people may not like what's been changed, but the fact of the matter is that when change is done poorly, it will be poorly received, and rightfully so.

Starlight Glimmer's redemption was rushed, and therefore, it was poorly done, thusly, change that's not good. It has nothing to do with what people don't want to see.

 

Agreed. I think the changelings have met far better reception, as it was handled in a much better way. Much as I like Starlight, the butterfly effect of her backstory wasn't explained/stressed properly, it happened too fast, and we didn't see any of her during the season (barring find Waldo cameos), so it kind of came out of nowhere as well. I can understand the raised eyebrows.

 

The worst part of it is that it made people think destroying Equestria was her aim, when in fact, she hadn't considered ANYthing other than: revenge on Twilight. Doesn't make her actions any nicer, but if you recall Frozen, it teaches us that bad deeds with good intentions should be forgiven (e.g. a certain ice princess), and bad deeds with bad intentions should be punished (e.g. a certain prince whose name I can't care to remember). Hence why Twilight chose to extend her hoof.

 

I don't mean exacting revenge on someone was well-intentioned But she did try her best to have a peaceful village in harmony, with happy inhabitants, and actually successed for the most part. She did go the wrong way about it, though.

[Victoria Sponge 1,017]

I like Starlight because she's amusing, that's all it comes down to for me. She did bad things, they went way out of control and turned, unintentionally, into much much worse things. But what she needed was a helping hand, a friend and that's what Twilight provided. Once that happened and once she saw how bad the things she was doing were she stopped. She's apologised and now she's just another reformed villain in the show. I personally don't see any reason to hate her.

[Rainbow Dash 1,472]

Besides the fact that she's

NOT AN ALICORN

, she's proven that yes, she can be a likeable and competent character in this season finale. Not only that, but she's probably one of the most clever characters of the series,

not needing a Deus Ex Machina or rainbow laser to defeat the villain

.

Hasbro is not going to get rid of her and yes, she'll 100% be back for season 7, but with a new foreshadowing plot line.

So please, can we actually give her a chance now? She's not exactly Flash Sentry or Derpy where they serve no purpose.

A reformed villain has no purpose. It's lazy writing for one thing. Not to mention the fact this is like the fourth time my little pony pulled the whole "I hate you all, but really I need a friend to be nice" bs. She was over powered when she debuted, her 'tragic' backstory was something from a kindergartener. She could have been a good character but she was ruined before she even got onto the screen. I can hardly start liking her just cause she's a pretty colour. She's more op than an alicorn, and her backstory resembles Sunset's, Sombras, and Nightmare Moon's; Wherein the thing that defeats them is a moment of clarity.

[heavens-champion 1,905]

I do not hate her. I'm simply worried that she might take Twilight's status as the main character.

(Here come the forum-users saying that Twilight's served her purpose or something like that)

[Peppermint Larry 203]

I just don't like her because she reminds me of my mother. Uncannily.

 

I feel like the writers could have done a better job with her, too. My only real complaints are that her backstory and reasoning for becoming a fascist leader of a village is incredibly weak, and that she went from a charming, charismatic "cult leader" to someone who is socially inept. 

 

She was the leader of an entire village, where ponies were not permitted to have talents. Where you have to have your cutie mark removed. You have to be a strong, charismatic leader to lure ponies into that situation. We have seen her while she ruled over that village- despite her being evil, she was welcoming, cheery, and most importantly, in charge. Now that she's been reformed, she is spineless and socially awkward. While reformation should have pushed her evil tendencies back, I see no reason at all why it would have made her socially inept.

 

But I don't hold that against her, I hold that against the writers.

[Ninjaed 526]

I feel like the writers could have done a better job with her, too. My only real complaints are that her backstory and reasoning for becoming a fascist leader of a village is incredibly weak, and that she went from a charming, charismatic "cult leader" to someone who is socially inept.

 

It's actually understandable. Season 6 finale reminds us that she is in fact a good leader. The thing is, she's scared of acting like one because she believes "[she] should never be put in charge of anything ever again". She's afraid she would slip back to her evil tendancies and waste this chance given to her. Her trauma was to lose her friend, and now that she's made genuine friends again, the last thing she wants is to disappoint them. And so, she's relying on magic, her only redeeming quality in her mind.

 

Also to be noted she had control over them and believed VERY strongly in her ideals. Now, she has no control over their reactions and is insecure about what to even believe in, out of fear of being wrong again and hurting others - leading her to be abandoned again. You'll notice she hardly questions Twilight and will just do as told... while trying to avoid the friendship lessons. Much like a child you're trying to teach.

 

At least, that's how it appears to me.

[The Crimson Cross 7,532]

Here I was thinking that Starlight Shimmer was the new favourite after Equestria Girls.

Since when have people hated on her?

 

Lol

[Connie 320]

Um...Excuse me? I mean, Starlight is my favorite pony, but I don't like how you're shoving your opinion down everyone's throat. Not everybody has to like her.

 

 

/Though I can agree that she's getting a lot more hate than she should be getting/