I hope the villain doesn't get reformed

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

I really hope the villain doesn't end up being reformed at the end like they have a habit of doing with antagonists and villains as of late; I also hope they don't go the "He's just misguided!" route like they have a tendency to do with characters, like Gloriosa or Midnight sparkle for example, with the characters not being responsible for their actions.



I'm getting a bit tired of the constant reformations and "no responsibility" villainy where a character is acting beyond their control due to magic. I want to see a villain who knows 100% what they're doing and acts fully evil the entire time; the best villains in the show IMO are always the ones who aren't set up for a reformation at the end or have mitigating factors: the sirens from EQG for example are by far the best villains from that series and are fully villains who don't reform, and tirek and chrysalis are seen as some of the best villains for that reason.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,311]

I still find it odd how so many people are vastly against reformations for villains. reforming isn't just simply an evil character becoming good. It is just as much the other characters forgiving that character and with a subtile like Friendship is Magic, forgiveness fits really well. I personally like that a lot more because it is a really positive message and that especially so when it has a good buildup. The fandom cried out to not have Chrysalis be reformed and she wasn't so we have that.

 

Personally I want a very positive ending to the film. All we need is a good enough buildup. I support the reformations.

[BastementSparkle 20,324]

I'd honestly prefer a reformation for the movie, reformations fit very well into the message and themes of the show. Forgiving others for their mistakes and wrongdoings, spreading friendship wherever you go, etc. I think it'd represent the series best for the movie to have a reformation.

 

 It doesn't have to be a character unaware of what they're doing either, they can have a villain who knows what they're doing, but believes they're doing it for a good reason. This doesn't necessarily mean "I thought I was doing good the whole time!" but could mean "I knew I did bad, but I felt it was for a good reason, that the ends justified the means". Something like that.

 

Honestly, "Pure evil" villains tend to be the more boring ones to me. You have to give them a very strong personality to make them interesting. With a character who's just "Evil" to be evil, you really, really have to make them charming.

[Le Trotteur Sauvage 13,051]

Agree. Tired of fake villain changing side and became friend with his nemesis like if they were old pal ! C'mon we need some villain here !

[Ganondorf8 11,283]

While I will admit that the whole reformation thing has been done far too many times throughout MLP, you have to remember that the show revolves around friendship. The idea of a villain reforming is to offer them friendship and allow them a chance to change their perspective in life or else succumb to a fate that involves spending the rest of their lives alone, wallowing in darkness from which there is no escape.

 

Not all villains act the way they do because of being misguided. Granted, Sunset and Starlight fall into this department along with Trixie and to an extent, Diamond Tiara, yet Discord was always evil because of his status as a spirit of chaos. Some act the way they do because they chose to become evil of their own accord, like Lord Tirek for example. He knew what he was doing when he wanted to acquire all of the magic in Equestria. He knew what would happen but he was more concerned with gaining power above everything else.

[Le Trotteur Sauvage 13,051]

 

 

or else succumb to a fate that involves spending the rest of their lives alone, wallowing in darkness from which there is no escape.

That's what I call a real villain life !
I understand what you say, but you have to admit that a villain, is a villain. He has to act, react and live like a villain. If he just get beaten and then become good like nothing happen...there is no interest. Or they should make him good from the begining and just make him became bad (like Twilight in the movie.)
I prefer a good hero that became bad then became good again than a fake villain that gives up on his personality 

[Ganondorf8 11,283]

That's what I call a real villain life !

I understand what you say, but you have to admit that a villain, is a villain. He has to act, react and live like a villain. If he just get beaten and then become good like nothing happen...there is no interest. Or they should make him good from the begining and just make him became bad (like Twilight in the movie.)

I prefer a good hero that became bad then became good again than a fake villain that gives up on his personality 

 

That is very true. A villain needs to have a compelling backstory coupled with the right incentives to be both believable and for the audience to become interested in their character. A fallen hero character would make for an interesting villain but again they would need a compelling backstory. The more tragic their fall the better they will become.

[El Duderino 879]

I really hope the villain doesn't end up being reformed at the end like they have a habit of doing with antagonists and villains as of late; I also hope they don't go the "He's just misguided!" route like they have a tendency to do with characters, like Gloriosa or Midnight sparkle for example, with the characters not being responsible for their actions.

 

 

 

I'm getting a bit tired of the constant reformations and "no responsibility" villainy where a character is acting beyond their control due to magic. I want to see a villain who knows 100% what they're doing and acts fully evil the entire time; the best villains in the show IMO are always the ones who aren't set up for a reformation at the end or have mitigating factors: the sirens from EQG for example are by far the best villains from that series and are fully villains who don't reform, and tirek and chrysalis are seen as some of the best villains for that reason.

I agree. I don't mind the idea of a villain being reformed, but doing it every time is just bad writing. You can't reform every villain, or have them be just misunderstood. Sometimes a villain needs to be just plain evil.

[Le Trotteur Sauvage 13,051]

That is very true. A villain needs to have a compelling backstory coupled with the right incentives to be both believable and for the audience to become interested in their character. A fallen hero character would make for an interesting villain but again they would need a compelling backstory. The more tragic their fall the better they will become.

I feel like it's something that bother only me. To me, a villain cannot be reformed because of what I personaly think in psycology. I don't think people can change, not deeply in any case. So I apply this view to the pony.

Sometime I forget that this is just a tv show, originaly made for children furthermore ^^

[Ganondorf8 11,283]

I feel like it's something that bother only me. To me, a villain cannot be reformed because of what I personaly think in psycology. I don't think people can change, not deeply in any case. So I apply this view to the pony.

Sometime I forget that this is just a tv show, originaly made for children furthermore ^^

 

And there's nothing wrong with having that opinion. You think about such thoughts from beyond the scope that the show is fixated on and in a way most probably wouldn't even notice.

[Le Trotteur Sauvage 13,051]

And there's nothing wrong with having that opinion. You think about such thoughts from beyond the scope that the show is fixated on and in a way most probably wouldn't even notice.

Eeyup that's me. Always trying to make everything logical and understandable. What a boring person. 

[Ganondorf8 11,283]

Eeyup that's me. Always trying to make everything logical and understandable. What a boring person. 

 

Nothing wrong with using logic.

[Ninjaed 526]

Wait, not reforming a villain in a movie which is meant to embody and convey the very message of the franchise to possible newcomers?!

 

Maybe you are tired of it, but it's a good part of the show! Those new viewers wouldn't know about there being "a lot" of reformations in the show. It'd be new to them, they'd be seeing it differently from fans. Besides, as has been said, the "villain" can actually be a good person who did wrong then became good again.

 

I don't know, it could be a mistake, then trying to cover up that mistake but that ends up creating new ones, and so on and the cycle continues until all goes downhill and they're stopped. Besides, that's how a good part of real life villains come to be. The first step is always the hardest, after that it becomes easier and easier.

[Goat-kun 2,527]

Will this movie be made in the spirit of FIM? Who knows. It needs to demonstrate to the masses that ponies are so awesome that every parent of little kids out there must BUY THEIR TOYS! It is my humble opinion that this narrative which puts friendship and forgiveness above all only inhibits MLP from focusing more on compelling characters, humor, and story. Valiant messages are all good, but when they consume the world you’ve made to such extent, it becomes a little creepy and predictable. Not to mention how memorable villains are known not for their reformations but for their evil deeds and demeanor.

 

As one would sing it:

No. One. Schemes like Gaston! No one memes like Gaston! No one’s falling from roofs with loud screams like Gaston!

Gaston: As a villain yes I am exhilarating!

Ah what a bad guy Gaston!

No. One. Brags like Gaston! No one rags like Gaston! No one stomps through the woods shooting stags like Gaston!

Gaston: I use alicorns in all my fanfic writing!

You monster!

 

Since it would seem that this movie shall have more emphasis on action and adventure, its villain needs to steal it, and I ain’t talking about charming Bronies with tragic past and psychological issues. Dank memes and songs need to follow in his/her wake. Plus the audience needs to feel satisfied when a big bad gets rekt.

[cmarston1 5,959]

If Rescue from Midnight Castle could kill off G1 Tirek, I don't see why the 2017 MLP couldn't do the same with its villain.

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

I agree.

I think for the film they need to go bigger... and that means the villain as well. There are all sorts of ways they could approach this, but at the end of the day the villain needs to feel like an actual threat, have actual identifiable motivation to be the villain (whether we agree with it or not) and be utterly unapologetic about their villainy. That have to be bad, and know what they are doing, whether or not they fully see it as bad that way themselves.

Although the show does preach friendship and placing the open hand before the closed fist, sometimes that is just not possible. Not every villain wants to be reformed, not ever character is open to it... some are just evil... some just want power... and nothing you can say or do will change that mindset. In this sort of situation, you hit a wall so to speak... you want to show them the "right" way or a "better" way that can lead to some sort of change of heart or an act of reformation, but they just are not interested. In such a case, at the end of the day they have to be stopped... and that is where the rest of the messages come into play, about relying upon each other and standing by what is right in the face of tyranny. They don't have to make friends with the villain to spread positive messages and you can easily still promote friendship in many other ways... for example by uniting other characters to work together to help in the defeat of said foe.  

Furthermore, I want to see a villain that truly frightens the main characters... I want to see them struggle not just against the villain, but with themselves.... I want to see an adversary that does more than just show up and stomp around for a few minutes before Twi and the rest get sick of it and bond together power ranger style and blow them away with a rainbow. We already know the villain is going to lose... it would be kind of a pointless film if they didn't. But just use Tirek for example... for the whole series he seemed like an actual threat... until the end... and then he was just so ridiculously overpowered it was almost embarrassing. I was not expecting him to win, but I seriously did not expect him to get so utterly and casually swatted away, especially after that titanic fight between him and Twilight. It just made it feel so lackluster and rushed that it sort of spoiled a lot of what came before. I don't want to see a repeat of that... I know they will win, but I want to see an actual struggle for them all in there, with what feels like an actual battle and defeat of the villain and not just distract them long enough to hit them with the power of super-kawaii-love-friendship and blast them over the next hill for a quick wrap up. In other words I want to feel like they could lose even when deep down I know they won't.

A  villain relies upon heroes to stand against them, but even more than that heroes need a "good" villain to test them and make them truly stand out as heroes. I think this is exactly what we need for the film. What we will actually get remains to be seen.
 

[Anonymous Old User Who Has Left 599]

I'll say this:

 

If you don't want a villain to be reformed, then you've got a heart of stone. How can you portray friendship by making the heroes give up and lose hope? Enough with just heroes fighting bad guys "boom everything's happy and okay yay!" and saving the day. (that's so cliched I feel like puking just typing it)

 

This is 2016 for god's sake. It's time to stop simply fighting evil guys and start conversing with them to change their mindset and see the error of their ways. It's not about negative physical conflict per say, but about healing corrupted mentalities.

 

Have you forgotten Despicable Me? or how about How To Train Your Dragon?

Edited November 17, 2016 by Shabb3r

[heavens-champion 1,905]

Can at least some of the henchmen get reformed?

[snowflame 189]

There has not been villain reformation in a episode we meet the villain in the show since the first premiere (and the first Equestria film, then there was some magical personality change with other charcaters). Since then they have took longer so I would expect the trend to continue. But then again MLPs thing is friendship which first great with reformation and the film should represent everyrything that makes MLP what it is. So I would not mind reformed movie villain truly. I rather would not since I prefer something more epic and actual death for the film, but that is to me more of a personal choice than a real flaw in the film if that were to occur.

 

However Season 7 better have a new unreformed premiere villain(s) and hopefully new finale one as well (who Crysalis can team up with) as well as some new antagonists in other episodes.

[ChB 18,550]

I still find it odd how so many people are vastly against reformations for villains. reforming isn't just simply an evil character becoming good. It is just as much the other characters forgiving that character and with a subtile like Friendship is Magic, forgiveness fits really well. I personally like that a lot more because it is a really positive message and that especially so when it has a good buildup. The fandom cried out to not have Chrysalis be reformed and she wasn't so we have that.

 

Personally I want a very positive ending to the film. All we need is a good enough buildup. I support the reformations.

Hear Hear! 

I understand where people are coming from when they say that reformation has been overdone in this series, to the point of being cliche. But to me, the alternative is even more cliche. I've seen enough of it in almost every (if not every) series I've watched. To me, the reformation theme is one thing that makes MLP so unique.

 

Don't get me wrong. If the villain doesn't get reformed, it's not something I'm going to "lose faith in the show" over.

 

I want to see a villain that truly frightens the main characters... I want to see them struggle not just against the villain, but with themselves.... I want to see an adversary that does more than just show up and stomp around for a few minutes before Twi and the rest get sick of it and bond together power ranger style and blow them away with a rainbow. We already know the villain is going to lose... it would be kind of a pointless film if they didn't. But just use Tirek for example... for the whole series he seemed like an actual threat... until the end... and then he was just so ridiculously overpowered it was almost embarrassing. I was not expecting him to win, but I seriously did not expect him to get so utterly and casually swatted away, especially after that titanic fight between him and Twilight. It just made it feel so lackluster and rushed that it sort of spoiled a lot of what came before. I don't want to see a repeat of that... I know they will win, but I want to see an actual struggle for them all in there, with what feels like an actual battle and defeat of the villain and not just distract them long enough to hit them with the power of super-kawaii-love-friendship and blast them over the next hill for a quick wrap up. In other words I want to feel like they could lose even when deep down I know they won't.

Like. Very good and contructive analysis.

 

 

Can at least some of the henchmen get reformed?

Beat me to it!

Edited November 20, 2016 by ChB

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Friendship can be the central focus of a series while still having your villains Stay evil and not requiring the heroes to redeem every single person they run into.

Look at one piece for example: the straw hat's friendship is the core strength of the group and the reason why they keep winning, but that doesn't mean that the villains aren't treated as the heinous individuals that they are and get beat down.

[Ninjaed 526]

Friendship can be the central focus of a series while still having your villains Stay evil and not requiring the heroes to redeem every single person they run into.

 

Look at one piece for example: the straw hat's friendship is the core strength of the group and the reason why they keep winning, but that doesn't mean that the villains aren't treated as the heinous individuals that they are and get beat down.

 

Thing is, this belittles so many aspects of the characters. It is hardly ever so clear-cut, with on the one side the "good guys" and on the other side the "evil guys", and the "good guys" are always good except when they make honest mistakes and the evil guys are always evil and will always kick the puppy whenever they can, just because they can.

 

I'm sorry, but this kind of villain is quite plain and boring. They can have a personality to go with it, great for them. It doesn't change their plainness. I mean, is Tirek really that interesting a villain? Don't you find Nightmare Moon, Chrysalis or Discord much better already? Or heck, even minor antagonists like the Flim Flam brothers are more interesting than Tirek!

 

The only advantage such plain villains have is to allow the viewers to endulge in enjoying seeing a villain suffer and lose. That's not really a good message, and since shows/books/etc shape people's minds and values, it's dangerous to have that. Want proof? Look at how many here want to see villains get banished to Tartarus or killed, sometimes in what comes close to torture. Pray tell how is that a "good" thing?

 

 

PS: might as well throw in an example of a non-MLP former villain that got redeemed and that is widely loved and acclaimed - Prince Zuco from Avatar: The Last Airbender. Now that is a character with a real personality. Compare with Tirek now.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Ninjaed

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Thing is, this belittles so many aspects of the characters. It is hardly ever so clear-cut, with on the one side the "good guys" and on the other side the "evil guys", and the "good guys" are always good except when they make honest mistakes and the evil guys are always evil and will always kick the puppy whenever they can, just because they can.

 

I'm sorry, but this kind of villain is quite plain and boring. They can have a personality to go with it, great for them. It doesn't change their plainness. I mean, is Tirek really that interesting a villain? Don't you find Nightmare Moon, Chrysalis or Discord much better already? Or heck, even minor antagonists like the Flim Flam brothers are more interesting than Tirek!

 

The only advantage such plain villains have is to allow the viewers to endulge in enjoying seeing a villain suffer and lose. That's not really a good message, and since shows/books/etc shape people's minds and values, it's dangerous to have that. Want proof? Look at how many here want to see villains get banished to Tartarus or killed, sometimes in what comes close to torture. Pray tell how is that a "good" thing?

 

 

PS: might as well throw in an example of a non-MLP former villain that got redeemed and that is widely loved and acclaimed - Prince Zuco from Avatar: The Last Airbender. Now that is a character with a real personality. Compare with Tirek now.

 

 

Being Pure evil doesn't mean a character is shallow or Weak: Freeza from DBZ for example is a pure sociopath with ZERO redeeming traits, but is absolutely incredible. I likewise HIGHLY enjoyed tirek as a villain despite him being just there to be evil and wreck stuff: That's his JOB. I'm not looking for him to give me shakespear, but provide an evil roadblock to reflect the heroes off of as a foil.

[20% Cooler Than Cake 161]

I think that either route has the potential to create an interesting story.  Either way, a villain has to have strong motivation for what they're doing, and must be fully aware of their actions.  However, whether these motivations skew their perspective so much that they refuse to be shown another way by the protagonists will be different from villain to villain.  For some characters, the motives are so strong that they block out any ideas that might challenge the reasons behind the character's actions, whereas other villains understand the protagonist's viewpoint more easily, and still have the ability to be reformed.  Though I have to add, if and when a character undergoes reformation, the process should be more than Twilight giving a four-sentence-long speech and/or rainbow cannons.  There should be some more... difficulty.
 

That's what I would like to see in the upcoming movie: an antagonist who gets reformed, not during the last two minutes of the story, but instead throughout the majority of the movie.  The villain should appear completely malicious from the start, seemingly only acting the way they are for the sake of gaining power or seeing others suffer.  But as the story progresses, the audience as well as the main characters begin to learn more about the villain, slowly piecing together their backstory and their motives, and eventually beginning to empathize with them.  We should see that the villain themself is conflicted, struggling with emotions that they can't quite understand.  Perhaps there will be moments in which the main characters reach out to the villain, and it seems that the villain is going to turn to them for help, when something happens that causes the villain to once again give in to their selfish temptations.  Then, when the character does get reformed at the end of the story, the reformation carries a lot more meaning because we already understand the character and can see how far they have truly come.  The idea of a hero-turned-villain character is a great option as well.  (Am I the only one who wants Evil Sunset Shimmer 2.0? )

 

My point is, the movie would be really good if the fight against the villain causes the main characters to develop and grow closer together, but it would be great if the villain's mentality is also emphasized just as much as, if not more than, the protagonists.

[Ninjaed 526]

Being Pure evil doesn't mean a character is shallow or Weak: Freeza from DBZ for example is a pure sociopath with ZERO redeeming traits, but is absolutely incredible. I likewise HIGHLY enjoyed tirek as a villain despite him being just there to be evil and wreck stuff: That's his JOB. I'm not looking for him to give me shakespear, but provide an evil roadblock to reflect the heroes off of as a foil.

 

That's precisely what I meant when I said that this belittles the villain. They're a foil and nothing more. Freeza had a bit more going for him than Tirek - the Saiyan were a menace to him. He actually had a reason to act like he did. Sure, he was a a cold-blooded murderer and all tht, but he had a minimum of depth. Not that much is needed to have a compelling villain, in fact.

 

Now this is where it becomes a matter of opinion: to me, MLP shouldn't follow that "villain (with ot without depth) is evil, defeat is the only option". However, I can't deny a (very) few people on earth cannot actually be redeemed, whether because they love what they're doing or because they're suffering from some mental illness. Tirek alone doesn't cut it, there needs to be a repeat of this lesson.

 

Yet, I can't find the movie being appropriate to do that. Its job is to reel in newcomers. Either it stays in their comfort zone by offering an average villain, or it shows them a specificity of MLP. Both could go, but my opinion is that they should give them a taste of reformation, MLP-style.