The Crystal Empire Or Magical Mystery Cure?

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

 

 

The spell Twilight cast changed the ponies' cutie marks and destinies, not just their cutie marks. It changed pretty much their entire life stories. The Apples didn't question Pinkie's presence, because only Twilight (and by extension Spike) knew that things had been changed from how they were supposed to be; everypony else was none the wiser. Including those effected, and the Apple family, the patrons of Sugarcube Corner, and all that stuff. ((This is my headcanon, but I believe that it's a fairly good explanation of what's going on.)) The Apples didn't question Pinkie's presence, because as far as they knew, Pinkie had been a worker on the Apple farm consistently, effectively replacing Applejack in that role the moment she found her cutie mark, at the Sonic Rainboom. The same could be argued for each of the rest of the Mane 6 who were affected. The lack of foliage on the trees reflects this fact, as far as Pinkie goes. If you notice, as soon as Applejack returns, coming to realize who she is truly meant to be, the leaves return, as if they had been under Applejack's care the whole time, rather than Pinkie's, since Applejack's destiny, as well as her memory and personal history, had been restored.

 

That makes a fair amount of sense. I might wonder if it seemed off to anyone how utterly inept everyone was at well... everything. That can be excused by the spell and by everyone just thinking "Eh, the weather's always been managed like garbage anyway." I'm assuming that you think that once the Mane Six members realized who they themselves were, everyone else's memories of them were restored as well? That would make sense too. I'd question why Spike was left unaffected this rewriting of memories, but that is relatively minor. Could be the radius of the spell or something .

 

As for Sombra, I'd argue that the nature of him as a villain and of the episode in general prevented him from being developed anyway. Due to his power level, he has to be kept apart from the action, otherwise the episode would become about overcoming him. The episode was (I think) more about Twilight facing her own doubts and her belief that not completing Celestia's test by herself was equivalent to failure. Sombra was by and large a means to keep the plot moving forward, and while he could've been essentailly replaced by a snowstorm and little about the episode would've changed, I think he served his purpose well. A looming threat, and a clear consequence of failure. I don't blame you for expecting more out of your villains though. Like I said before, Discord, Chrysalis, Lightning Dust>Sombra, but I was personally fine with him.

[Descant 1,898]

 

 

That makes a fair amount of sense. I might wonder if it seemed off to anyone how utterly inept everyone was at well... everything. That can be excused by the spell and by everyone just thinking "Eh, the weather's always been managed like garbage anyway." I'm assuming that you think that once the Mane Six members realized who they themselves were, everyone else's memories of them were restored as well? That would make sense too. I'd question why Spike was left unaffected this rewriting of memories, but that is relatively minor. Could be the radius of the spell or something .

 

 

I think that, in some sense, each (non Mane6) pony was tied in some way to one of the Mane 6, as far as being affected goes, and began to remember how things were at a rate proportional to how the Mane 6 affects them, in relation to how the Mane 6 remembered things themselves. Since the Apple family has ties more palpable to Applejack than most ponies, hence, it started to come back to them sooner in comparison to ponies like Bon Bon and , who in themselves were only fully restored by Pinkie's ultimate return, since most ponies have relation with Pinkie over the others, considering Pinkie's easily the most sociable of the 6. 

 

Spike was relatively unaffected due to his affiliation with Twilight, who was mostly unaffected directly by the spell itself.

[100 beasts kaidou 321]

As for Sombra, I'd argue that the nature of him as a villain and of the episode in general prevented him from being developed anyway. Due to his power level, he has to be kept apart from the action, otherwise the episode would become about overcoming him. The episode was (I think) more about Twilight facing her own doubts and her belief that not completing Celestia's test by herself was equivalent to failure. Sombra was by and large a means to keep the plot moving forward, and while he could've been essentailly replaced by a snowstorm and little about the episode would've changed, I think he served his purpose well. A looming threat, and a clear consequence of failure. I don't blame you for expecting more out of your villains though. Like I said before, Discord, Chrysalis, Lightning Dust>Sombra, but I was personally fine with him.

I am sorru but how could he be replaced by a storm? could a storm Banish a city for 1000 While facing alicorns? Could a storm make the strongest alicorn shit her pants? could a storm make traps? could a storm Fuck up the royal Gaurds captains Horn? Could a storm turn an entire race to a bunch of emos?

[cmarston1 5,959]

I am sorru but how could he be replaced by a storm? could a storm Banish a city for 1000 While facing alicorns? Could a storm make the strongest alicorn shit her pants? could a storm make traps? could a storm Fuck up the royal Gaurds captains Horn? Could a storm turn an entire race to a bunch of emos?

 

If the storm was an after effect of King Sombres's dark magic after he took over the crystal kingdom and Sombre got like a slight mention he could have easily been replaced by a storm without having a physical apperance in the show or even a second mention of him.

[100 beasts kaidou 321]

If the storm was an after effect of King Sombres's dark magic after he took over the crystal kingdom and Sombre got like a slight mention he could have easily been replaced by a storm without having a physical apperance in the show or even a second mention of him.

Thats only because while the other villains were master minds and Rulers, King Sombra Was a killing machine who has an insane obsession over crystals, however he also was a clever man as His traps nearly defeated someone as smart as twilight if it wasnt for celestia and Spike. Also he has the ability to fuck up Uncorn Magic. he is more of a anime villain than a little girls show villain if you ask me, I a, welling to bet that every girl who watched that episode was scared as fuck

[Jokuc 8,174]

None of them were amazing episodes. But I will have to go with the crystal empire because magical mystery cure had more things in it I disliked.

[Freewave 1,145]

I think now i would have to say TCE but it's still hard to choose as both are really flawed. TCE is padded, the songs are a bit weak, but its got some great dark overtones, and Sombra. MMC has great songs but the pacing is WAY too quick and the transitions and conclusions (new magic=unicorn princess) are awful. Both ahve elements that are really good and a lotta stuff that's really off.

[Righteous Fury 344]

The Crystal Empire, Magical Mystery Cure was just way too cramped.

 

But both are way better than A Canterlot Wedding.

 

THAT'S RIGHT I WENT THERE.

[Dark Qiviut 22,439]

As weak as both episodes are, The Crystal Empire is objectively the better of the two. You can read my review for Magical Mystery Cure here to read the strengths and glaring flaws in the episode. What makes The Crystal Empire better are as follows:

1. Much more expanded characterization of the cast. Despite being very heavily characterized in Twilight's perspective, we got to see how the others handled themselves quite a bit, and each line worked. Outside the lyrics in What My Cutie Mark Is Telling Me, Magical Mystery Cure's characterization of the Mane Six outside Twilight and Spike wasn't that strong.
2. The plot flowed much more. Magical Mystery Cure performed the worse of the two evils, which is cram a needlessly complex plot in one twenty-minute episode. Moreover, MMC opened a gaping plothole by retconning the already established concept of cutie marks being the ponies' predestined livelihoods instead of it being their biggest self-made interests and lifelong goals in order to fit the Twilicorn in the canon. Albeit abruptly introducing Cadance as the current Crystal Princess without any true rhyme and reason, The Crystal Empire, on the other hand, took a much simpler plot and expanded it, in part two really slowing it down to the point of a crawl. While it was more plausible and a hell of a lot more coherent, it resulted in making Sombra a flat, boring character. Sombra isn't anywhere nearly as menacing as Discord or Chrysalis simply because Sombra is a typical cliché with no depth aside from the Door of Illusion.
3. The story, needless to say, is much better told. Magical Mystery Cure crammed it in in one twenty-minute episode, and the songs ate up WAY too much time, only speeding it up further. The Crystal Empire, once more, took its time with more dialogue and less songs that clog up screentime.
4. (More of a consequence from MMC) The foreshadowing of the Twilicorn is much more organically placed in. In MMC, because of the rushed method the episode was written, the Twilicorn (and Princess Twilight) hints were shoved in inorganically and felt like they didn't belong unless Larson severely rewrote it from the ground up. Compared to The Crystal Empire, the foreshadowing flowed. The animated scene of Luna and Celestia with Twilight before the gates shut was a very clever method to hint where she may go once her studies were over. The script didn't dictate it (and if it did, the Twilicorn hint would've been better foreshadowed), but the animated background helped out.

[Nature's Spell 526]

MMC is tops for me but I like musicals and I like Princess Twilight, so for me the choice is clear. It's not even that I dislike TCE, I actually enjoy it a lot, but MMC made me happy and that's big for me. The feelings.

[Anadu Kune 668]

 

As weak as both episodes are, The Crystal Empire is objectively the better of the two. You can read my review for Magical Mystery Cure here to read the strengths and glaring flaws in the episode. What makes The Crystal Empire better are as follows:

1. Much more expanded characterization of the cast. Despite being very heavily characterized in Twilight's perspective, we got to see how the others handled themselves quite a bit, and each line worked. Outside the lyrics in What My Cutie Mark Is Telling Me, Magical Mystery Cure's characterization of the Mane Six outside Twilight and Spike wasn't that strong.
2. The plot flowed much more. Magical Mystery Cure performed the worse of the two evils, which is cram a needlessly complex plot in one twenty-minute episode. Moreover, MMC opened a gaping plothole by retconning the already established concept of cutie marks being the ponies' predestined livelihoods instead of it being their biggest self-made interests and lifelong goals in order to fit the Twilicorn in the canon. Albeit abruptly introducing Cadance as the current Crystal Princess without any true rhyme and reason, The Crystal Empire, on the other hand, took a much simpler plot and expanded it, in part two really slowing it down to the point of a crawl. While it was more plausible and a hell of a lot more coherent, it resulted in making Sombra a flat, boring character. Sombra isn't anywhere nearly as menacing as Discord or Chrysalis simply because Sombra is a typical cliché with no depth aside from the Door of Illusion.
3. The story, needless to say, is much better told. Magical Mystery Cure crammed it in in one twenty-minute episode, and the songs ate up WAY too much time, only speeding it up further. The Crystal Empire, once more, took its time with more dialogue and less songs that clog up screentime.
4. (More of a consequence from MMC) The foreshadowing of the Twilicorn is much more organically placed in. In MMC, because of the rushed method the episode was written, the Twilicorn (and Princess Twilight) hints were shoved in inorganically and felt like they didn't belong unless Larson severely rewrote it from the ground up. Compared to The Crystal Empire, the foreshadowing flowed. The animated scene of Luna and Celestia with Twilight before the gates shut was a very clever method to hint where she may go once her studies were over. The script didn't dictate it (and if it did, the Twilicorn hint would've been better foreshadowed), but the animated background helped out.

 

Its probably not the best way to start presenting your case by saying one episode is objectively better and then present a bunch of opinions on why you think one is better than the other. In the end that's really all any of us can do present our cases(opinions) as best as possible. The only facts we can use are those present in the episode itself, whether those are good or bad is a subjective stance. For example you like the dialog scenes from crystal empire as opposed to the songs which you actually expressed as eating up time in the episode. I know many (particularly animators) who would vehemently disagree with that position and could bring up many valid points as to why you are "wrong". So no its not "needless to say" why either is better than the other, if it were then this topic would not exist. 

 

Edited April 14, 2013 by Anadu Kune

[Dark Qiviut 22,439]

@@Anadu Kune, Just like that, you fall into a trap that's killed so many arguments.

 

You're equating that liking it equals being good and not liking it equals bad; and that mindset couldn't be any more wrong than it already is. I actually LIKE The Crystal Empire a tiny bit less than Magical Mystery Cure because I personally take other things into account a tad bit heavier than others, like Sombra's characterization, my attachment to various moments and songs, and so on. Sombra's really flat personality is one of the reasons why I like TCE less than MMC.

 

But that's viewing it in the form of taste. I'm viewing it here under a quality perspective/litmus, which is completely different. Taste and quality often don't mix, and they don't here. I'm here to dissect why The Crystal Empire is better than Magical Mystery Cure regardless of prejudice. I can like something and know it's bad, and I can dislike something and know it's good. In my review linked in your quote, I explained why Magical Mystery Cure isn't a good episode, even though I do like it.

 

In TCE, the two-parter as a whole is much better handled beginning, middle, and end despite the two main issues being Sombra's flat personality and the slow pace in the first two acts of TCEII. (It also had one minor issue, which is Cadance suddenly being the Crystal Princess.)

 

Magical Mystery Cure, on the other hand, rushed so much in the first two minutes of the episode and only increased in tempo to the point where it made zero sense logically and realistically, more so than Keep Calm and Flutter On. MMC had big issues in plot, coherency, logic, and plausibility, many of which are explained in my linked review.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Dark Qiviut

[WWAPD 126]

I have to say, I think the two-parters are a little overrated, mainly because they always introduce new concepts and characters. I think magical mystery cure was an excellently spaced season finale, and it was pulled off in one episode. It didn't add yet another secondary character, or antagonist that will only remain important for that episode.

 

The Crystal Empire just seemed long, drawn out, and less relevant to the rest of the show.

[Homura Akemi 974]

Neither are on my top 10 best episode list, and neither are the worst episode of season 3 but I'd choose The Crystal Empire, even if so much of it had to do with Cadence, a character I dislike a lot. Magic Mystery Cure was was too cramped for an episode that is one of the most important of the entire series. I could go on forever about it, but I won't. 

[Descant 1,898]

 

Neither are on my top 10 best episode list, and neither are the worst episode of season 3 but I'd choose The Crystal Empire, even if so much of it had to do with Cadence, a character I dislike a lot. Magic Mystery Cure was was too cramped for an episode that is one of the most important of the entire series. I could go on forever about it, but I won't. 

 

Cramped? Like I explained above, I prefer the word 'dense' to the word 'cramped'. Saying it was cramped makes it sound like it's a bad thing. Personally, I think it was well pulled off the way it was. Tell me, if they'd made MMC a two-parter, how would that have worked? The Cutie Mark Crisis as Part 1, and the transformation and coronation as Part 2? It simply wouldn't have worked, nor would have been practical. People would have called it poorly done, or too stretched out. No, I prefer MMC the way it was.

 

 

 

It's a lot more subtle of a thing for me to explain, but the density of MMC in itself is an art. The fact that it makes you think, I think, is what makes it such a turn-off to some bronies. It's like the argument of a novel vs. a short story; in a novel, there's a bunch of meaningless banter that is out of place, while in a short story, every little action, every little detail means something; it has to, due to the short length. Therefore, a short story is so much more dense than a novel in its storytelling and its intrinsic value. To me, that makes the shorter works; the denser works infinitely more enjoyable, and as such, I think the pacing and length of MMC were utter perfection.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Glaceon

[Homura Akemi 974]

Cramped? Like I explained above, I prefer the word 'dense' to the word 'cramped'. Saying it was cramped makes it sound like it's a bad thing. Personally, I think it was well pulled off the way it was. Tell me, if they'd made MMC a two-parter, how would that have worked? The Cutie Mark Crisis as Part 1, and the transformation and coronation as Part 2? It simply wouldn't have worked, nor would have been practical. People would have called it poorly done, or too stretched out. No, I prefer MMC the way it was.

 

It wasn't a bad episode, but not my personal liking, I suppose? I didn't really like or dislike it, more like meh. Fine if it was awesome for you, though.

[Anadu Kune 668]

 

 

You're equating that liking it equals being good and not liking it equals bad

When did I do that? I'm objecting to your use of the word objective. The main point of that whole post wasn't which episode was better than the other, but that either view is not objective. I never said liking it was good and not liking it was bad. Either is a view to have and it is a subjective one. We can discuss points of the the show that are presented and are objective (crystal ponies) but our views on whether those points are good or bad are subjective ones. I read your review, and whilst I may disagree with certain points of it I think it is well structured. However it is not objective no review can be. Another example is you view the pacing as too fast, a view which many share however not all do and they could make compelling arguments as to why. You find the concept of twilicorn stupid, but others could make compelling arguments otherwise. Many animators in my class argued compellingly that musical numbers conveyed plot and character elements better than dialog. Conversely you could make a compelling argument for dialog being better at doing so. You may hold your view on why the cutie marks are a contradiction in MMM to be objective fact, compelling arguments can and probably have been made as to why it is not so. Does this make your view and argument objectively wrong? I don't think so.

I think certain episodes are good because I think they present the subject matter well. I can talk for days about why, citing the intent of the message and all the corresponding visual ques and dialog. I can talk about how the animation expresses the mood of the scene and better conveys said message. I can talk about how amazing that transition shot was or anything else. Conversely someone can argue the opposite or from a different angle or perspective. Are they wrong? They may be misinterpreting the scene's intent and I can argue that point, but they can just as easily argue that they felt the message was unclear and was presented poorly. I might not feel that way and would list why. It can go back and forth. Are either of us objectively wrong? I don't think so. I could make an argument on why Sonic Rainboom is a terrible episode, I could also make an argument for why it is a great episode. Which view is right and which one wrong? In my book neither. Its all in how you present your stance. 

My whole point here is that saying this is objectively this or that, implies that anyone holding the opposite view is by default wrong. After all you are stating your view is the true objective one. At best any opponent you have is just blind to what is really there. This to me is not a good way to present your stance. Im not objecting to your views here nor did I make a point to really argue them at this time, just the use of the word objective. 

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,632]

Honestly, I choose MMC. Yes, it was rushed. Yes, it should have been a two-parter (which makes this a slightly unfair comparison). Yes, the Alicorn thing came out of nowhere, in terms of the episode itself. Yet, despite this, I loved it. The songs were nice and seeing the 'Hall of Memories' was very touching. It was fantastic to see Twilight come this far in her adventures, which is one of the many reasons to why I love the Alicorn concept.

 

The Crystal Empire was also really good in my opinion. I loved the overall tone of it. The idea of mystery and the looming danger getting closer just felt so....entrancing. It was very well done, except for Sombra. He just had much more potential and it wasn't really shown.

 

I loved Magical Mystery Cure, but I can see why it has so much hate. I can guarantee that if it were a two parter, it would have been far to more to most people's likings, like The Crystal Empire. The Crystal Empire had a good amount of singing as well, but it was more spaced out thanks to lesser time constraints.

 

Still, like I said, I loved MMC, so it gets my vote.

[Wingnut 7,000]

I liked The Crystal Empire more than Magical Mystery Cure mostly for the reasons well expressed by DashForever and Dark Qiviut.  MMC became a blur several times.  The indistinct amount of time that passes between the time their cutie marks are switched and when they are fixed disturbs me.  I somehow doubt that Twilight would have taken SO LONG to figure out the answer that Pinkie Pie would've killed all those apple trees.  And what happened to Granny Smith and Big Mac?  Did they think Pinkie was their relative?  Maybe she was just a hired farm hand?  They were able to run the farm themselves when Applejack was in Manehattan and they still ran it until she was old and educated enough to assume the management end of things.  The whole twilight zone (no pun intended) of altered lives is almost a timeline anomaly of Star Trek proportions.  Even though Twilight originally seemed to think time or reality was altered, the way the problem is resolved seems to indicate that it was a glorified memory spell after all. 

 

Moreover, MMC opened a gaping plothole by retconning the already established concept of cutie marks being the ponies' predestined livelihoods instead of it being their biggest self-made interests and lifelong goals in order to fit the Twilicorn in the canon.

 

I personally thought this was a minor plothole.  Careers, interests, and lifelong goals all go hand in hand.  People...and ponies...are happiest when they have jobs that involve their most cherished talents and dreams.  The five ponies with the mixed up cutie marks were mislead into thinking the other ponies' intended jobs would lead them to happiness.  But because they were never cut out for that kind of work, they were miserable and unfulfilled. They were baffled and frustrated because, according to their cutie marks, this is what I'm supposed to do. This wasn't corrected until Twilight showed each one the activity where their heart truly lies.  The best part of MMC is when each pony joyfully rediscovers her originally intended vocation.  "Yes, this is what I was born to do!" 

Edited April 14, 2013 by Wingnut

[~Starlight~ 764]

Am I the only one who liked the musical? I loved all the singing and I think that was the point, because it was a MUSICAL!!! I liked the crystal empire but Sombra was not shown enough, but I love the magical mystery cure because all the ponies had a great part!   

[Sunny Fox 5,952]

I liked The Crystal Empire more than Magical Mystery Cure mostly for the reasons well expressed by DashForever and Dark Qiviut.  MMC became a blur several times.  The indistinct amount of time that passes between the time their cutie marks are switched and when they are fixed disturbs me.  I somehow doubt that Twilight would have taken SO LONG to figure out the answer that Pinkie Pie would've killed all those apple trees.  And what happened to Granny Smith and Big Mac?  Did they think Pinkie was their relative?  Maybe she was just a hired farm hand?  They were able to run the farm themselves when Applejack was in Manehattan and they still ran it until she was old and educated enough to assume the management end of things.  The whole twilight zone (no pun intended) of altered lives is almost a timeline anomaly of Star Trek proportions.  Even though Twilight originally seemed to think time or reality was altered, the way the problem is resolved seems to indicate that it was a glorified memory spell after all. 

"Putting your Hoof Down" had a very similar scene. When Fluttershy realized she's gone too far and returns to her cottage, it rapidly becomes run-down and boarded up, and even the river goes from clear to a muddy brown. And this is implied to happen in a single night and day (Fluttershy returns at twilight, it changes to day and then Rarity and Pinkie Pie show up) Since there is no evidence that it took any longer than that to happen, we can conclude that it changed overnight. I always interpreted it as a form of "emphatic scenery", and I think something very similar is behind what happens to Sweet Apple Acres when the cutie marks were switched. So I don't really see it as a plothole, because we have a precedent.

 

Despite this, I enjoyed TCE more than I enjoyed MMC. Although I guess I find myself cast as a Twliicorn supporter (My stance is more "I'll wait and see how they handle this" than "this is the greatest thing I have ever seen in my life!", but that's bye the bye) and I can find many reasons to argue against bad things people may say about the episode (although Dark Qivuit has a definite point about the cutie mark switch being a little odd in that it affected their jobs and roles in Ponyville - which compared to the flaws of "A Canterlot Wedding" I find entirely forgivable), I had to vote for TCE.

 

That's mainly because of Rarity, I admit... ("Crystal ponies!" Squeee! "There are crystal ponies?!") but I also found myself reassessing King Sombra. Sure, he wasn't as "in your face" as previous villains, but he still had a menacing presence, had a really good plan already laid down from 1000 years ago, and was pretty scary overall. Think about it. His plan is not only clever, it is diabolically so. His "doorway of fear" relies on somepony using Black Magic to open the door. Which is really devious, since the only way to get to that door in the first place is to use black magic, and is naturally the first thing somepony would attempt to do. Then the delaying staircase (overcome by "gravity control", which just seems way overpowered), and finally, the trap to capture the pony who managed to get this far, when they would be exhausted and not thinking straight after climbing all those stairs. And the trap even includes a counter-mention for any pony who tries to teleport away - something only two ponies have ever been known to do. Face it, Sombra was Crazy Prepared and would have won if not for Spike... and even then, Sombra would have gotten to the Crystal Heart first except for the "wife-javelin", which - credit where it's due- no one could have predicted. 

 

Song-wise, while I like the MMC songs and I don't think they were out of place, I enjoyed the songs in TCE more... particularly "Save the Crystal Ponies."

 

Overall, TCE is just more enjoyable, and that's not an opinion coloured - as so many are these days - by Twilicorn.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Full Spectrum

[pinkiefan1287 610]

If I had to pick my favorite one I would have to pick Magical Mystery Cure. The songs were great and kinda better then the ones we have had this season. I liked the simple story it had and Twilight gaining more power and having a bigger role.

 

Also I voted for the wrong one. 

[Scootalove 10,689]

I liked the Crystal Empire for the very funny Star Wars reference and the boss battle with Sombra. But I like Magical Mystery Cure for the very catchy good songs.

 

So I'd have to say Crystal Empire.

[Winona the Dog 1,984]

Both episodes could have been better but I have to go with TCE.

 

The season opener is better in my opinion mainly because you'd never expect Spike to be the hero of the day. Versus Magical Mystery Cure you could pretty much tell what was going to happen as soon as the problem was revealed. I don't give two bits about Twilicorn but I did like her self sacrifice near  the end of the opener. 

 

To be honest i almost didn't like MMC because it was a musical. A different way to tell the show but it doesn't appeal to me IMO.

 

Of course King Sombra kind of sucked as a villain because he wasn't involved enough. I know he was suppose to be a looming threat but i think it would have been better if he could have been able to mentally torture the mane 6 while behind the shield.

[Dusty Soul 2,611]

For me it was the Crystal Empire.  Though it was lacking in the songs, it made up for it by not feeling rushed and having some dark scenes.