LGBT+ Bronies: Thoughts on "The Closet"

[Eloquence 2,076]

I've heard plenty of this show's fans talk about being "in the closet", "in the brony closet", or what have you with regards to the fondness of this show. I have also heard plenty of people say that it is insensitive and unkind to use these terms, as it makes light of the struggles faced by the LGBT+ community, for whom the term was coined. I personally am still a bit unsure on the matter, so I would like to hear from the queer bronies on this issue, as we are of course the ones most well-equipped to discuss it. 

 

Since this is my thread, I suppose we'll start with my opinion. I was raised in an environment that taught me to be disgusted by my sexuality. It took me a long time to accept my feelings, and once I accepted them I still took a long time to come out, and to a lot of people in my family I still haven't. I have overtly homophobic relatives, and even the supportive ones could use improvement (my mother, for example, initially cried and tried to talk me out of it when I came out). Despite what I've faced as a bisexual, I still cannot find it in me to be upset by bronies using the same terms I use. I've felt like I had to hide my love of My Little Pony as well, and in certain circles I am even more afraid of receiving ridicule and hatred for my fandom than for my sexuality. I cannot in good conscience bar the terms from anyone who feels they identify with them, because I don't believe anyone should be made to feel like they have to hide who they are or what they love, even if it is as simple as a television show.

[RainboomCrash 173]

I'm bicurious (although I do fantasize about men a bit I'm unsure whether I like them) so I guess I could be seen as being "in the closet". I'd have to agree with you; I feel more intimidated by the idea of people mocking me for liking ponies than men due to the fact that I feel that modern society accepts gays more than bronies.

[Discovery Dream 592]

I find the term overused and irritating, as a member of the LGBT+ community myself. It's totally understandable that one would be embarrassed at liking a show for kids--cmon, the whole fandom is pretty crazy thing to exist. But you're not going to be disowned, mistreated, disrespected, or openly mocked for who you are. People will probably laugh at you, sure, but that's nothing compared to the actual issues LGBTQ individuals face. If you have an issue with someone who won't let up because you like ponies, it's easy to dump them and forget about. But unlike a cartoon about technicolor horses, one's sexuality/gender identity stays with them for life, and cannot be changed. I still haven't come out to anyone outside my friend circle for fear of what might happen, but most know of my brony identity because hey, it's just a cartoon.

[Zygen 6,065]

Well, i'm not a part of the LGBT community. I am however still a closet brony, and honestly the whole closet thing is just an easy way to say, "Hey, i'm a brony who hasn't told anyone about it yet" And honestly I can't think of many better terms, I mean unless you want me to use that whole sentence thing every time I refer myself as such.

 

I don't really see why a term like that could be considered offensive, but not having the experience of actually being in the LGBT community, i suppose I could just be lacking in knowledge in the area.

 

But personally I don't see the issue with it, I just find it an easy way to explain things without dragging things on, and when your like me and ramble for ages, anything that can shorten what your saying tends to be useful ;p.

[Dr. Vojislav Seselj 691]

Are you bored out of your mind?

Ultimate nitpick.

 

I agree with just about everything Zygen said.

[Eloquence 2,076]

I find the term overused and irritating, as a member of the LGBT+ community myself. It's totally understandable that one would be embarrassed at liking a show for kids--cmon, the whole fandom is pretty crazy thing to exist. But you're not going to be disowned, mistreated, disrespected, or openly mocked for who you are. People will probably laugh at you, sure, but that's nothing compared to the actual issues LGBTQ individuals face. If you have an issue with someone who won't let up because you like ponies, it's easy to dump them and forget about. But unlike a cartoon about technicolor horses, one's sexuality/gender identity stays with them for life, and cannot be changed. I still haven't come out to anyone outside my friend circle for fear of what might happen, but most know of my brony identity because hey, it's just a cartoon.

 

This does appear to be the most common sentiment of those who oppose the term. I think it's valid, if perhaps a bit oversimplifying.

 

For the sake of discussion, I'd like to present you with a scenario. Just something I would be interested in hearing your response to, if you don't mind. Say you're a male brony who cannot show his parents that he likes the show because if he does they will assume him to be homosexual and proceed to treat him as they would if he came out as such. This may sound a bit farfetched, but given the stupidity of bigots I don't find it impossible in the slightest. Would a person such as that have any right to the terms?

[Fluttershyfan94 5,738]

It sometimes bothers me when people use the term "in the closet" bronies. I feel like it is undermining the word, it doesn't bother me too much. Except for a few times were I read "closet" something and it's help or advice thread then it's about coming out as a brony. So personally I feel like bronies should use some other word like "in the stables" or something else. I don't see it as offensive, I just feel like it's being overused. I'm bi by the way.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Fluttershyfan94

[Discovery Dream 592]

This does appear to be the most common sentiment of those who oppose the term. I think it's valid, if perhaps a bit oversimplifying.

 

For the sake of discussion, I'd like to present you with a scenario. Just something I would be interested in hearing your response to, if you don't mind. Say you're a male brony who cannot show his parents that he likes the show because if he does they will assume him to be homosexual and proceed to treat him as they would if he came out as such. This may sound a bit farfetched, but given the stupidity of bigots I don't find it impossible in the slightest. Would a person such as that have any right to the terms?

 

A valid point, and one that loops back around to the issue of homophobia. MLP is a feminine show, and in your scenario, the parents believe enjoying something outside of their rigid senses of the gender binary equates to being homosexual. In this case, it is not an issue of the show itself, but rather what people believe about gender norms in relation to sexuality. I'd take it as an indicator of a larger and more complex issue than simply someone being afraid of telling his parents that he likes ponies. This person has a right to the terms, as it is related to the question of sexuality and gender, but not in the exact same way. If this person were to play the victim card and claim it harmed his self esteem, for example, that rubs off the wrong way, as though the thought of himself being homosexual insults his very being. That is an issue in oneself, not others. However, if the concern lies where it ought to, in the way the parents view gender norms in relation to the increasingly flimsy argument of "feminine equals gay", then it's something to think about. That sort of thinking doesn't just harm the person being treated as such, but the entire LGBTQ community as well ,as it reinforces harmful stereotypes.

[-Zephyr- 84]

I was in the closet since I was about 13, I always had crushes / fantasied about doing things with the same sexbut always had that fear of being mocked / outcast by my friends. At about 16 I had my first same sex encounter, just a kiss, but never went further again out of fear of being ridiculed.... I REALLY wish I had come out sooner as a brony and as bisexual but meh, still plenty of time to tell people / explore  

 

At the end of the day, even though i didnt follow it myself, stand up for yourself and if you get mocked them buck them  

[The Dandy 73]

Well as a technically in the closet transgender individual, Bronies saying "in the closet" isn't offensive because it's rude, it's offensive because it's an overstatement. As far as I know, there has been one case of a brony being kicked out of the house for enjoying the show, and one attempted suicide because of that reason. Compare that to the amount of times a successful suicide has occurred, in the LGBTQ+ community or a member has been kicked out of their house (especially trans* and homosexual people), and that is a very unfair comparison to draw. It is sayin the hardships the LGBTQ+ community need to go through are equal to those a brony would need to, which is just untrue.

[Eloquence 2,076]

A valid point, and one that loops back around to the issue of homophobia. MLP is a feminine show, and in your scenario, the parents believe enjoying something outside of their rigid senses of the gender binary equates to being homosexual. In this case, it is not an issue of the show itself, but rather what people believe about gender norms in relation to sexuality. I'd take it as an indicator of a larger and more complex issue than simply someone being afraid of telling his parents that he likes ponies. This person has a right to the terms, as it is related to the question of sexuality and gender, but not in the exact same way. If this person were to play the victim card and claim it harmed his self esteem, for example, that rubs off the wrong way, as though the thought of himself being homosexual insults his very being. That is an issue in oneself, not others. However, if the concern lies where it ought to, in the way the parents view gender norms in relation to the increasingly flimsy argument of "feminine equals gay", then it's something to think about. That sort of thinking doesn't just harm the person being treated as such, but the entire LGBTQ community as well ,as it reinforces harmful stereotypes.

 

Well said. I agree 100%.

 

It sometimes bothers me when people use the term "in the closet" bronies. I feel like it is undermining the word, it doesn't bother me too much. Except for a few times were I read "closet" something and it's help or advice thread then it's about coming out as a brony. So personally I feel like bronies should use some other word like "in the stables" or something else. I don't see it as offensive, I just feel like it's being overused. I'm bi by the way.

 

It's interesting that you bring this up, because the only time I've heard someone use "in the stables" was when I heard people discussing how abhorrent that term was, and how it made a mockery of being in the closet as a queer person. Personally, I quite like what you have to say here. If the terms were different it would eliminate confusion such as what you brought up. In fact, it reminds me very much of "in the broom closet", a term commonly used by pagans, witches, and occultists.

 

I'd be very interested in getting more opinions on this piece of terminology and it's potential use.

[Thrashy 2,799]

One thing I've noticed is that whenever someone declares something to be "offensive" towards a minority, it's usually not even a member of that minority making that assertion; just an ignorant majority member speaking on the minority's behalf. Which I find to be a mixture of amusing and frustrating.

 

Word to the wise, straight/"cis" supporters of the LGBTQ community: It's commendable of you to lend your support to their cause wherever you can, but their voice is uniquely their own. Please stop trying to talk over their voice by being an opinionated loudmouth on matters that, frankly, you could never experience firsthand. It is up to them as to whether or not something is offensive to them, not you.

Edited May 13, 2014 by The Thrashy One

[Nine 707]

It's just a word, with an understood meaning that you're hiding something about yourself. I guess the default meaning (unless you specify) is that you're gay, but the LGBT community doesn't own the word.

 

Besides, I'd think that if being taken seriously and achieving meaningful change is the goal, it's worth it to pick your battles, because I think a lot of people would consider it very petty to get upset because someone else "took their word".

[FlyBunny 57]

We are in the age of political correctness everything offends everyone for some reason. 

[Eloquence 2,076]

One thing I've noticed is that whenever someone declares something to be "offensive" towards a minority, it's usually not even a member of that minority making that assertion; just an ignorant majority member speaking on the minority's behalf. Which I find to be a mixture of amusing and frustrating.

 

Word to the wise, straight/"cis" supporters of the LGBTQ community: It's commendable of you to lend your support to their cause wherever you can, but their voice is uniquely their own. Please stop trying to talk over their voice by being an opinionated loudmouth on matters that, frankly, you could never experience firsthand. It is up to them as to whether or not something is offensive to them, not you.

 

+500 brohoofs for this comment. I am very much not interested in people telling me what I am and am not to be offended by. Honestly the only times I've taken issue with people not liking it when bronies use the terms (aside from the usual assertions that bronies are gross and worthless blahblahblah) is when they insist that I have to be personally offended. While I respect that other people dislike the term, I as a queer person do not have to hate someone or scream at them for something that's really pretty 'meh' to me, nor do I have any interest in my problems being used as a soapbox for some angry kid on an ego trip looking to prove that they're better than everyone  :okiedokielokie:

[Hamp 10]

  I'm not on the LGBT community, but I'll drop an opinion anyway.

 

  People make use of getting offended way more than they should. I mean, it's absolutely natural to get offended by something that isn't a direct insult, (feelings have never been rational), but that doesn't mean the other person is invading your rights. As long as it doesn't objetively affects anything in your life or your rights, a posture is an opinion and nothing more. You cannot complain about people using 'get out of the closet' for mlp going out. Well.. actually, complaining is the only thing you can do. It is what they think vs. what you think it's good, and objectively you can't say anything is better than the other.

 

 About the act of 'Getting out of the closet' itself, I think it must a difficult experience to get through. Look, I'm scared to make myself look like I know about something I don't really have experience with (non-conventional sexuality), but let me relate to something I do have experience with, which is dealing with other people's attitude about those kind of things. If you belong to any minorty, be it homosexuals, bronies, atheists, or whatever, you'll eventually have to tell somebody who you are. Hopefully you'll recieve some level of acceptance, but that's not assured. What is assured is that at least one person is going to be irrationally harsh at you. And though telling everyone the truth about who you are may seem like a nice idea in the first thought, you may want to think again before you have to deal with harmful personalities. I think that's why getting out of the closet may be kind of a dilemma, or a difficult experience overall for any minorities (with greater or lesser consequences depending on the social context your minority is in)

 

 Did I deviate too much from the 'expected answer'? My forum skillz are outdated, specially the english ones.

[Winterbass 763]

I honestly don't like the term as it is used by bronies. While sure, both aren't that liked by the general public, the troubles I've heard people have gone through by coming out for their sexuality are often so much more bigger than those of bronies. The same goes for me, a few of my best friends left me after I came out recently yet they were completely fine with me watching the show, my father and stepfather are pretty homophobic as well, it made a little piece of me die on the inside. 

 

I'll have to agree with @Alice, the comparison is rude, and for the people who are in difficult situations, it can be downright offensive. While people are making a big deal out of an interest, there are still countries who jail and execute LGBTQ people, other countries who do give rights to LGBTQ have a population that is still very conservative. Violence and criminal activity geared towards LGBTQ is far, far bigger than towards bronies. Therefore, the use of the term or anything similar to that term (For example, "In the stables") can be pretty offending. The struggles a brony goes through do not compare to those of LGBTQ, I think we can all agree on that. 

 

In the end, hiding an interest of yours in fear of getting mocked or losing friends doesn't compare to hiding who you are in fear of being judged, disowned, beaten up, losing friends or being potentially executed at all.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Winterbass

[The Dandy 73]

@Hamp just regarding your first paragraph, I understand what you are saying , but I am concerned. Saying "people make use of getting offended way more than they should", is just closed minded. This is known as victim blaming. People do this because they have a good or at least non-hateful intention (such as using "coming out"), and when they get corrected, rather than take that correction on board they simply say someone is "impossible to please". Because they feel they have done everything in their power to not hurt a certain person, but yet they did. But, intentions mean nothing, crashing a tanker full of oil in Antarctica and saying "oops didn't mean to do that" or doing that and saying "yeah, suck it penguins!" Causes the same problem. So although it may seem people are just being too easily offended, they correct with good reason, and simply because someone feels they have done nothing offensive, doesn't mean they have not.

 

@FlyBunny I also direct you to this.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Alice

[Hansel 1,511]

I think the closet thing was just a tongue-in-cheek term, much like the term "Brony" itself, and it just stuck. I do think it's kinda dumb that people use it, (just like I think it's pretty ridiculous  that people live in environments where they feel they need to hide liking the show in the first place) but I'm not "offended" by it at all. I just wish people would stop using it coz it sounds ridiculous.

 

People need to chill.

[multifacetedbrony 88]

 

  People make use of getting offended way more than they should. I mean, it's absolutely natural to get offended by something that isn't a direct insult, (feelings have never been rational), but that doesn't mean the other person is invading your rights. As long as it doesn't objetively affects anything in your life or your rights, a posture is an opinion and nothing more. You cannot complain about people using 'get out of the closet' for mlp going out. Well.. actually, complaining is the only thing you can do. It is what they think vs. what you think it's good, and objectively you can't say anything is better than the other.

 

 

 

It's a bit offensive to say people are "making use of getting offended", as if it was just an excuse to be awkward. Often times when someone says they have an issue with something, it's a genuine issue which might not seem that big to you because you're not living their experiences, but is still valid to them. In fact, using "coming out of the closet" for telling people you're a brony could have an indirect effect on LGBT people by devaluing the term and making it sound like it's not a big deal, when really it can be a huge deal.

 

More generally as regards the thread:

 

I don't find using coming out of the closet to be offensive per se, but I do find it to be a huge overstatement and that's where I have a bit of a problem with it. I realise that people do get mocked for being a brony and that the fear of how someone will react is genuine, but it's not the same as people fearing losing jobs, their home, or a relationship due to being LGBT. Also, being a brony is great but at the end of the day you don't have to wear brony shirts. You could leave the jewellery at home. You don't have to tell people in order to live your life comfortably. At the end of the day, you're telling someone you like a TV show that they might find hard to understand or make assumptions about, which can be hard, but it's not the same as saying "I want to be with other girls" or "I am male on the inside". For an LGB person, they have to risk coming out if they want to get married (if they're legally able to), live with someone, or even hold hands with their partner in public. For a T person, they have to risk coming out if they want to be able to present as their real gender without having to hide inside their biological gender for ever. So yes, I do think it would be better if bronies didn't use the term.

Edited May 14, 2014 by multifacetedbrony

[FlyBunny 57]

I think this conversation needs to be left alone before it turns into something it was never meant to be. This is a very touchy subject for so many and while I do agree being offended is over used. I think it goes a little something like this. Lets say Bob is gay and is truly offended by something he heard. The problem isn't Bob being offended, the problem is the eight million people jumping on the offended band wagon who by the way probably don't know why they are offended but they are. So what ends up happening is when someone has a legitimate complaint it is watered down by those jumping on the i'm offended band wagon. I think that is what Hamp was referring to. 

[Nerdy Luigi 2,064]

I'm pansexual, I'm not in the closet about being a brony or BISEXUAL. I didn't ever say I was attracted to (transexxes).

 

But I am in the closet about being transsexual, as well as having gender dysphoria.

 

The closet is cramped, let me tell you. It's not that comfy either. Everyone knocking on the door, telling me to come out, was quite painful to do. But I had to. I partially did. They stopped calling me to the door, though I go back in on occasions. The wonderful thing about the closet that keeps me coming? Several things. Secrecy of my effeminate traits, the inside of it is a hot pink, and secrecy of my life. It's not comfortable, but it's better than the corner. That makes me seem depressed.

 

How's that for an extremely long metaphor?

[FlyBunny 57]

@twill f. sniper  That was fantastic for an extremely long metaphor

[Envy 6,004]

I will agree with those who think that Bronies referring to having to come out of the closet is an 'overstatement'.

 

Honestly, the matter of being a Brony is FAR different from being LGBT. LGBT individuals have 'traits' (for lack of a better term) that they really can't avoid having to talk about. Bronies... Bronies watch a TV show.

[Shanks 10,811]

I mostly like women but do have occasional thoughts about other guys that tend to come and go so at the very least I a bit bi curious. I can understand where gays are coming from in one sense that being a brony is indeed not the same as being gay as being a brony is a choice while being gay is not but at the same time what they both have in common is that they are both only a big deal because society makes a big deal out of them. The fact that someone chooses to watch a harmless cartoon shouldn't earn them outright hatred and bulling anymore than having an attraction to the same sex even if one is a choice and the other is not. For those that complain that bronies shouldn't say they are "in the closet" about it I am open to suggestions on what other terms would be better. I will agree that some bronies treat the fandom too seriously and some do play the victim a bit more than they should but at the same time there is very real bullying going on against bronies even if there isn't as much of it as there is against gays.

 

 

One thing I've noticed is that whenever someone declares something to be "offensive" towards a minority, it's usually not even a member of that minority making that assertion; just an ignorant majority member speaking on the minority's behalf. Which I find to be a mixture of amusing and frustrating.

Yes as someone on the Autism spectrum it really pisses me off how so many "normal" people assume Derpy is offensive and try to speak on their behalf without even bothering to listen to what they have to say and understand how someone who is gay would be a little annoyed and irritated at someone trying to speak for them about what they are supposedly offended by.