spoiler Is anybody else tired of the whole "villains reforming" concept?

[Sazama Ichida 2,367]

It's ok at times but just once I wanted to have a permanent Trixie archetype character who would remain evil. But both Sunset Shimmer and Starlight Glimmer ended up turning good. I guess it sorta made sense for Discord to reform since he was never really evil to begin with. Just mischievous. And I'm also ok with Diamond Tiara reforming since she wasn't really a villain or antagonist. Just a bully. And it won't really surprise me if Queen Chrysalis ends up being redeemed since Hasbro might decide to cater to the headcanons of all these fanboys that want her to just be misunderstood. But characters like King Sombra are supposed to be pure evil. Characters like him for example aren't supposed to be redeemable. Read the comics for more info if you don't believe me. And I swear if Tirek ends up turning good I just might end up leaving the fandom...He was supposed to be evil incarnate...He disowned his own brother and used deception along with power and destruction to get what he wanted...If they're gonna make Sombra a good guy they might as well make Adolf Hitler a good guy...And if they're gonna make Tirek a good guy they might as well make the devil a good guy...It's ridiculous...Point is there are some villains who just shouldn't be redeemed.

[Sunset's Shimmer 394]

This! So much of this. It's why the finale disappointed me so much.

[Megas 27,624]

Especially when most of them haven't been good. Only ones I ever thought worked were Gilda, Diamond Tiara and Sunset Shimmer, and even then the latter had to be fleshed out in the 2 other movie because it was so poorly executed in the first one.

 

Hell Starlight Glimmer's redemption equally rivals Trixie in how much it reeks of bullshit

Edited December 10, 2015 by Santa Megas

[Lulaypp 2,555]

Yeah guess I agree with you!

[Edgeworth1001 648]

Yes! Yes! Yes!

 

I'm not against the idea of redemption in shows but Jesus Christ does the show execute this trope horribly. Discord and Starlight are the worst offenders of this. Sunset's similarly poor redemption eventually paid off in RR, and Diamond Tiara's is by far the best execution of this trope.

 

The redeemed Discord has so far shown that he might as well still be a villain. He still act like a complete dick who torment others for his own amusement. For crying out loud he helped Tirek escape from Tartarus. And Starlight reached a new low with her half assed backstory on why she became a mind controlling communist who put Equestria in a variety of different post-apocalyptic worlds and somehow was forgiven by everyone in the Mane 6 even though the only one she really has any chemistry with at all is Twilight.

 

Who's it gonna be next? Tirek the warlord? Chrysalis the terrorist who manipulated everyone into thinking she was the real Cadence? Flim Flam the monopolistic business ponies who tried to run the Apple family out of business?

 

[Justin_Case001 4,888]

Ok, well, for starters, don't worry--Sombra and Tirek and not going to be reformed.  I promise.  If they are, I'll eat my computer.  How's that?

 

But I hear you.  In some ways, I was kind of hoping that Starlight would end up being Twilight's ongoing nemesis.  Every heroine needs a nemesis.  But on the other hoof, I was okay with the reform because she was never evil incarnate, like Tirek.  She was a real pony with reasons for what she did.  She didn't just want to watch the world burn, you know?  But I would really like it if the six had just one unredeemable nemesis who's a pony their own size, instead of a faceless dark lord.  Sombra and Tirek are more the faceless dark lord type.  I'm talking about a normal pony; a developed, relatable character, who is also a villain, and who stays a villain.  Yeah, that would be good.  So, while I'm fine with the reforms they've had, I also agree with you to an extent.

 

And, of course, all FIM reforms are far too quick.  We know that, and we just accept it.

[Sazama Ichida 2,367]

In my opinion Discord really should've been Neutral instead of Good or Evil. He's basically the show's version of Mister Mxyzptlk.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,464]

You know, I might be in a minority here, but I am fine with redemption's. Are they all handled perfectly? No, definitely not, but as the concept, I am fine with that. Starlight's was...rushed, very much so. Sunset's was a bit more believable because of her emotional spasm afterwards, but still, rushed. Discord's was great overall, Nightmare Moon was typical. Even with a bumpy track record, I would rather see villains be reformed, unless they are an extreme power like Tirek or Chrysalis, which they weren't reformed so it is not like EVERY villain gets that treatment. 

 

I am a person that clings to the concept of forgiveness. To be able to forgive someone for the wrongs they may have done. That is the main reason why I am all for redemption's, because I would rather see a character be forgiven than them constantly being a horrible nemesis throughout, at least in a show like this where friendship is the main focal point. I don't need constant turmoil here like in Game of Thrones or something. 

[Freewave 1,145]

The Batman movies kill off or destroy all the great villains, Hasbro reforms them all. I get why they think there's good in everyone (even villains) but that is something that can ruin a franchise when you run out of antagonists.

[Red Cedar 1,408]

Tirek, Sombra and Chrysalis so far seem pretty unrepentant. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Limeblossom 482]

So... we lost a potential villian again....

[cmarston1 5,959]

Yes!  It's gotten to the point where I can't even get excited much for any more future villains in the series, knowing they are inevitably get reformed eventually.  I'd rather have season 6 premiere be like Princess Twilight Sparkle and not introduce a new villain and for the season to end like seasons 1 and 3 with a single episode so we don't get any new 2 part villains that could even potentially be reformed.

Edited December 9, 2015 by cmarston1

[Malinter 3,064]

Ok, well, for starters, don't worry--Sombra and Tirek and not going to be reformed.  I promise.  

 

Well, Sombra is safe from being reformed as he is too busy being dead. XD

[Limeblossom 482]

Well, Sombra is safe from being reformed as he is too busy being dead. XD

Completely screwed by Spike and Cadence .

[Silver Stream. 708]

I have no problem with it, as I understand that's the show's initiative I guess?

 

My main problem is how some villains/antagonists/even some protagonists are so EASILY forgivable and reformable while others aren't or they weren't really offered the chance.

 

Hinthint DT gives CMC he'll for 4 seasons but is reformed because she has mommy issues. Babs is forgiven easily AND the CmC for nearly killing her.

 

But Lightning Dust makes one mistake that wasn't even intentional and is kicked off the Wonderbolt team like crap.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Silver Stream.

[Vocal Analyst 665]

The notion of villains being reformed regularly didn't really become an issue for me until this season. Both Diamond Tiara's and Starlight Glimmer's 'redemptions' really didn't work for me. While I felt DT was going to see the error of her attitude eventually, I didn't expect it to WHOLLY result in her changing alignment. As for Starlight Glimmer, it would've been fine if she's understood what good friends are, but I didn't want her to be how she was in by the time the episode faded to black. It would've been nice to see both characters struggle with their new found responsibilities as Season 6 opened, to fully expand their characters and prove whether they COULD keep friends or revert back to their previous ways rather than both just become good guys and that's the end of it.

 

I do hope that Starlight is the 'last' major villain to have to go through this moral transformation. It seems that the main characters will find ANY reason to become friends with someone, no matter how far they went to hurt them. It doesn't fully reflect reality and breaks suspension of disbelief very easily. I hope Season 6 has a villain that has a much more prolonged role and isn't so easy to turn. That would be great.

[Guest]

I think the whole villain reforming can perhaps be explained by the show's tag line. Maybe they're trying to show that friendship really is magic and the affect it can have on those who previously lacked it. :s

[Mesme Rize 15,683]

First of all, i don't think that Tirek, Sombra and chrysalis will ever be reformed. Sombra is gone and dead, Tirek is in Tartarus for all eternity and who knows where Chrysalis is.

 

Now, when comes to the reformation stuff, i don't really know where the problem is. Equestria is a land that obviously is much more idealistic then our culture and one that probably dosen't believe in severe punishment. The name of the show is "friendship is magic" and this show is obviously trying to spread a very positive message, instead of a negative one, saying that everybody deserves and second chance and that nobody is truly evil.

 

I admit that Starlight reformation was kinda cheesy. But it's certainly nothing to get the pitchforks out.

[retrobakon 57]

I can say that, in my personal opinion, I feel reformation can be excellent if handled well. There're definitely villains who should NEVER even have a chance at redemption, whilst others are better off being redeemed. I think it's really just situational. I do, however, feel like they should lay off of it for a while, before things get too crazy.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

Yeah, I'm tired of it simply for the fact that far too often, it comes on the back of incredibly lazy writing. 

 

I think the only reformation that was at least somewhat done well was Discord's, simply because it took the mane six some time before they trusted him fully. And as it turned out, they were definitely right not to trust him right away.

 

Meanwhile, Starlight Glimmer forcefully took the mane six's cutie marks and held them captive for days just prior to attempting to destroy their friendships via time travel. And yet, after a few quick "friendship is good" speeches and nothing more, we're apparently supposed to believe that she is now 100% good and that the mane five will presumably have no trust issues with her whatsoever, unlike with Discord. 

 

Sorry, but that's ridiculous. 

[cider float 2,538]

Even till this day Starlight Glimmer's reformation and her backstory were the most crap I've seen in this show. So until then nobody told Starlight Glimmer to get over it and that they will be her friend? Seriously? Equestria is not painted like a hellish dimension with apathetic creatures after all... how in the world could Starlight Glimmer have lived that long like that?

[Megas 27,624]

Mark my words, soon we'll see Tirek frolicking in a field of flowers and having tea parties with other beloved villains and antagonists like King Sombra, The Flim Flam Bros, Abacus Cinch, Prince Hans, Bendy, The Crust Cousins, Broly, that one guy from the Hey Arnold Movie, and Vince McMahon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alright that was mean, King Sombra's alright now

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

What if Lightning Dust and/or Wind Rider got reformed?

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

What if Lightning Dust and/or Wind Rider got reformed?

That actually seems 100% likely to me.

 

Gilda got Reformed, Sunset shimmer got reformed, Trixie got reformed, Even Freaking Diamond tiara got reformed... I actually would be MORE surprised at Lightning dust NOT reforming than her staying evil.

 

I could possibly see Wind rider not being reformed, but Not in any way shape or form lightning dust, sadly. If they can have far more evil characters like Sunset and Starlight reform in less than 60 seconds, they won't be troubled at all by reforming LD.

 

 

Mark my words, soon we'll see Tirek frolicking in a field of flowers and having tea parties with other beloved villains and antagonists like King Sombra, The Flim Flam Bros, Abacus Cinch, Prince Hans, Bendy, The Crust Cousins, Broly, that one guy from the Hey Arnold Movie, and Vince McMahon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alright that was mean, King Sombra's alright now

 

 

Eh, I only like King sombra in the comics (Where, ironically, he looks to be about to do a Heel face turn into being good due to the power of love). Even in the finale he didn't come off as any better, he still didn't talk, still had no personality besides "stand and look menacing" and just kind of was a puppet for all intents and purposes.

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

That actually seems 100% likely to me.

 

Gilda got Reformed, Sunset shimmer got reformed, Trixie got reformed, Even Freaking Diamond tiara got reformed... I actually would be MORE surprised at Lightning dust NOT reforming than her staying evil.

 

I could possibly see Wind rider not being reformed, but Not in any way shape or form lightning dust, sadly. If they can have far more evil characters like Sunset and Starlight reform in less than 60 seconds, they won't be troubled at all by reforming LD.

 

 

 

 

Eh, I only like King sombra in the comics (Where, ironically, he looks to be about to do a Heel face turn into being good due to the power of love). Even in the finale he didn't come off as any better, he still didn't talk, still had no personality besides "stand and look menacing" and just kind of was a puppet for all intents and purposes.

How would they even reform Wind Rider?