Twilight's Kingdom is overrated

[TheAnimatorOfficial 566]

It's not a bad episode but it's not the pinnacle of MLP:FIM.

 

While the visuals are amazing and Tirek is cool in concept the entire thing is incredibly cliched, Discord is a moron, the ending song is terrible, and, yes, Twilight hogs the spotlight.

[Violet_S 783]

I consider it one of the best finales but it's not my FAVORITE either ... I personally loved Tirek's character and would love to see him again (without being reformed, of course)

[GrimGrimoire 4,970]

Admit it, this was a blatant attempt to trigger some people wasn't it? I mean 99% of the time using the word "overrated" in front of whatever you are wanting to talk about is pretty much screaming it while swinging a rubber chicken.

 

Anyway, no.. I don't think it is at all. It was the best of the finales IMO and although it does have plenty of cliches and such, it was really good for what it was. It also has the best fight scene we will probably ever see out of MLP, and that includes the upcoming movie.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,286]

Can't say that I agree with you. The finale did most of what should have happened. It made itself epic, it answered our questions about Discord and Twilight and it ended on a note of progression for the following season to build on. I personally think it is one of the top finales, by far.

[Megas 27,064]

Admit it, this was a blatant attempt to trigger some people wasn't it? I mean 99% of the time using the word "overrated" in front of whatever you are wanting to talk about is pretty much screaming it while swinging a rubber chicken.

 

Anyway, no.. I don't think it is at all. It was the best of the finales IMO and although it does have plenty of cliches and such, it was really good for what it was. It also has the best fight scene we will probably ever see out of MLP, and that includes the upcoming movie.

I also want to say it's a kneejerk reaction to everyone saying the MLP movie sounds like a rehash of Twilight's Kingdom....

 

For the finale itself, it's fine, it's not the best finale ever(Best Night Ever) but it beats the shit out of the last two we've had imo

[TBD 17,228]

you think this is overrated? its one of the life time action in MLP.

 

 

No i don't think  the overall finale is overrated, the only things I don't like about the finale is when the rest of Twilight's friends is completely useless (till the end) 

[chaosprincess 1,064]

I would not say overrated it was not that bad of a finale the fighting scene was I suppose you can call an easter egg to Dragon Ball Z and Lord Tirek is one of my favorite villains so I was quite happy when I saw him in the finale and I do hope he returns it would be nice to see him again he escaped once he could probably do it again and another thing to remember is Hasbro is not catering to the older fans the show will always be for children so from a child's point of view that would be a awesome finale the fighting scene alone makes it so overall I think the finale was fine.

[Castle Bleck 19,167]

 

If anything, it's still the finale that makes me go, "How can they possibly top that?"

[Goat-kun 2,498]

Great. Now tell us more about the true pinnacle of FIM.

[Sovereign Leader Rarity 12,000]

 

 

 

 

 

Twilight's Kingdom........overrated?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ( blood starts trickling from mouth ).

 

 

 

 

 

 

I completely disagree with you. Yes, the episode uses cliches used in other MLP episodes, but it uses them much better than any of the finales previously or since. The characters all feel likeable and relatable and the morals and problems feel realistic. Discord is not a moron. His reformation was heavily rushed and poorly done in my opinion throughout season 4 and this episode finally brings it full circle in a dire situation. Tirek took advantage of what many of the viewers had already seen, his reformation not being fully complete yet. Plus, there was that whole scene in Celestia's castle that proves that Discord initially approached his partnership with Tirek with caution. The same can be said for Twilight. No, the other members of the mane 6 are not very present in this episode, but why would they need to be? This is about Twilight finally coming to terms with her Royal status, which was also implemented into this season poorly, with everyone treating her the exact same as before she became a princess. Tirek is easily the best antagonist that the show has had thus far. Unlike Queen Chrysalis for example, his gloating actually has some credibility to it due to the fact by that point he has already won. He is played very seriously but he never trades this feature out for having a character, unlike Sombra and his ability to draw Discord onto his side by pure charisma alone, and to take advantages of his emotional disadvantages and flaws and use them to help his cause was very impressive.

 

This is an episode about transformation on both Twilight and Discord's behalf and that is why there is no room for the other members of the mane 6. Twilight is the main character and at some point the show had to treat her as such. You also complained about this episode being cliche, when wouldn't this episode be MORE cliche if the other members of the mane 6 HAD decided to help her, as they have done in many previous episodes? As for the song at the end, song's do not make an episode and we have heard worse song's even in the other two parters.

 

Overall, this episode IS the pinnacle of MLP, and frankly nothing even comes close to matching it.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,152]

While I will agree it isn't the best episode by far (Crystal Empire and There & Back Again are tops for me), it is still a spectacle, serves it's purpose well, and pretty much knows what it wants to do. Really; it left QUITE the impact when it aired and that impact is still arguably felt.

 

Is it flawed? Yes.

 

Is is overrated? No.

[cmarston1 5,951]

While I wouldn't go as far as to say Twilight's Kingdom is objectively the best episode of the show, or even perfect, still after these few years, I would have to say that it still continues to be my favorite finale, and favorite 2 part episode in the show period.

And heck even one of my all time favorite episodes of FIM in general.

To be perfectly honest, I would have to say that The Cutie Map feels a lot more overrated than Twilight's Kingdom ever was.

[They call me Loyalty 1,941]

It skips my perception because there aren't many new ideas in this episode. I don't find it stimulating, from a creative perspective.

[TheAnimatorOfficial 566]

you think this is overrated? its one of the life time action in MLP.

 

 

No i don't think the overall finale is overrated, the only things I don't like about the finale is when the rest of Twilight's friends is completely useless (till the end)

That was literally one awesome part that people use to convince people that this episode is a masterpiece.

 

Quite frankly the best of MLP includes episodes like Sleepless in Ponyville, Return of Harmony, and Cutie Map where visuals are balanced out with great writing and a smart resolution (vs deus ex machina).

Great. Now tell us more about the true pinnacle of FIM.

Here are 12 episodes that are far better:

 

Sleepless in Ponyville (the best episode of the series IMO), Return of Harmony, Cutie Map, Sisterhooves Social, To Where and Back Again, Tanks for the Memories, Princess Twilight, Ain't Easy Being Breezy, Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep, Friendship is Magic, Canterlot Wedding, Cutie Re-Marking.

 

Twilight's Kingdom is in a category with The Crystalling, Legend of Everfree, and Magical Mystery Cure where people think that the standout visuals make up for an average to subpar story.

 

Again, I don't hate Twilight's Kingdom. I think it works very, very well as the season 4 finale as well as a lead up to season 5. However as an episode by itself it fails to stand up to the best episodes of the show.

While I wouldn't go as far as to say Twilight's Kingdom is objectively the best episode of the show, or even perfect, still after these few years, I would have to say that it still continues to be my favorite finale, and favorite 2 part episode in the show period.

And heck even one of my all time favorite episodes of FIM in general.

To be perfectly honest, I would have to say that The Cutie Map feels a lot more overrated than Twilight's Kingdom ever was.

The Cutie Map actually relies on whit and creativity to tell a story rather than grand visuals. It's not as "OMG EPIC" in terms of outsider opinion but in terms of what it's trying to convey it FAAAR outshines Twi's Kingdom.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Its the best Action focused episode we'll get in the show, ever.
There will never be an episode that will focus as heavily on battle and fighting again as this episode, in as serious a tone as this episode. That means that, for AT LEAST a certain niche of an Episode type, it will forever reign in that department.


You can say that another episode is an overall better episode, like that Best night ever is a better finale, which many will agree too: But Its like saying that caddyshack is better than the matrix, they're two different genres, one comedy and one Action. For People looking for an "Action" genre episode, this episode will almost certainly NEVER be topped due to how reluctant to show or have actual high stakes, serious tone fighting in the series, and will remain at the top of that list.

[Flutterbattyyy 330]

That was my all time favorite episode.   I do not think it was overrated. "The Return of Harmony" and "Pinkie Pride" were far, far more overrated, imo.

 

I will admit, I give it far more praise than any other episode; but to be fair, it also felt more like a movie than any other episode, too. It's production value (songs, animation, writing, and fight scenes), were top-tier. 

 

I mean, that fight scene, man! Soo epic! O.O

Edited February 16, 2017 by ElementalFluttershee

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Overrated? Yes, it is, the reason this ep is praised to sky is the first introduction of the true epic fight scene and the most impassable force. Its beyond people expectations so its deseved all the praised... the plot itself is not that great but the fight scene made up for that.

 

Ah wait, there is one thing, the mane 5 are useless in that finale, go around and do nothing significantly and are just components to activate Rainbow Power. Some people have problem with Mane 6 capture in S6 finale, i dont have any problem with that, at least the focused characters in S6 finale do something interesting and useful, Starlight without her companion and her magic is just a useless unicorn but that what teamwork is, no one shines too much. Twilight in Twilight Kingdom without her friends can still fight Tirek like a badass powered Alicorn, the fight will continue until one of them die, no matter the outcome at least they are equally strong, Starlight alone cant beat Chrysalis for 100 years trying, but teamwork can make it works, yeah, S6 finale values teamwork than S4.

[LeafFerret 3,382]

I thought I was the only one who thought this, it was no doubt one of the most overrated episodes I've seen. The reason it had so much hype was because of Tirek, take him away and it's just you're usual finale and the final scene was just a rehashed version of The Return of Harmony, there was no effort or creativity, just the Mane 6 forming a rainbow and while the villain makes no attempt to stop them. Even The Crystal Empire was more creative than this finale. All they did was use the same ending from previous two parters and just changed the theme and villain to make it look different. I thought this finale was the reason for the show's decline and led to Twilight's downfall after this episode.

 

It was a disappointing finale to a somewhat great and memorable season. Here's hoping that the battle between Starlight and Chrysalis will be much better than this.

Edited February 16, 2017 by RDashie89

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

I still see Twilight's Kingdom as being my favourite season finale mainly because of how Lord Tirek was implemented, Discord finally coming to understand friendship, and Twilight embracing her title as a princess despite struggling to figure out what her purpose was to be. Is it a perfect episode? No as there is no such thing. All episodes have flaws whether or not we choose to see them with our own eyes, and this particular finale does have issues. I still have trouble accepting the Rainbow Power designs for instance.

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

Twilight's Kingdom is overatted in MY EYES too... but Canterlot Wedding is much more so...  while the Cutie Map is deeply underrated ultimately it really doesn't matter everyone's favorite episode is their own favorite episode for their own reason.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

Here are 12 episodes that are far better:

 

Sleepless in Ponyville (the best episode of the series IMO), Return of Harmony, Cutie Map, Sisterhooves Social, To Where and Back Again, Tanks for the Memories, Princess Twilight, Ain't Easy Being Breezy, Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep, Friendship is Magic, Canterlot Wedding, Cutie Re-Marking.

 

Twilight's Kingdom is in a category with The Crystalling, Legend of Everfree, and Magical Mystery Cure where people think that the standout visuals make up for an average to subpar story.

 

Again, I don't hate Twilight's Kingdom. I think it works very, very well as the season 4 finale as well as a lead up to season 5. However as an episode by itself it fails to stand up to the best episodes of the show.

 

The Cutie Map actually relies on whit and creativity to tell a story rather than grand visuals. It's not as "OMG EPIC" in terms of outsider opinion but in terms of what it's trying to convey it FAAAR outshines Twi's Kingdom.

Are you stating this as your personal opinion or is there something that can support your claim that this is indeed the sentiment of the viewers? Cause if it's the former, then any opinion in this thread carries just as much weight as yours and this conversation is pointless. I don't think any who like it as the best episode enjoy it because of fancy "creative writing" but because they think it's awesome. You can say it's overrated if someone tries to portray it as the pinnacle of creativity, but I do not think you can say it's overrated when it comes to public affection and that carries far more weight than all creative writing on this world.

[Cleverclover 1,525]

I think Twilight's Kingdom is massively overrated. It remains my least favorite two-parter and among my least favorite episodes in the show.  

 

I've seen it probably about 2 or 3 times, and I can't say that I'll ever care to watch it again. 

 

One of the things I hate about it is how purely incompetent Celestia is. McCarthy has not treated Celestia well since Lesson Zero. Nearly every single additional time she's written Celestia, it's pretty much just for the express purpose of dragging her into the ground while simultaneously making Twilight look better. Where once Celestia was believed to be the equivalent god among the fandom, that perception has been utterly shattered, and McCarthy is entirely to blame. 

 

In Twilight's Kingdom, McCarthy took things to a whole new level. She painted Celestia as easily the most incompetent ruler I have ever seen, bar none. Celestia's decision-making in this episode is flat-out ridiculous and certainly does not give indication that this character has been ruling a nation for more than a milleniuum. 

 

For starters, Celestia's first major blunder is sending out a recently-reformed villain to stop a new villain, without any backup plan whatsoever.  Without any good reason whatsoever, she put complete and unwavering faith in Discord to stop Tirek. Because how could that possibly go wrong? It's certainly not as though Discord hasn't proven himself to be entirely trustworthy, you know, by the way he deliberately misled the mane six in Princess Twilight Sparkle and how he deliberately pitted Twilight and Cadence against a giant worm that could have killed them. How could Celestia have ever expected that Discord would betray her and instead help Tirek gain power, effectively rendering her at fault for the fact that Tirek was able to drain magic from just about every single pony in Equestria? I mean, come on, you'd have to be a strategic genius to have seen that one coming! 

 

And of course, Twilight ends up looking all the better after this massive blunder of Celestia's, because she had offered to stop Tirek herself before Celestia chose Discord, and Lord knows that if Celestia had actually allowed Twilight to do so, Tirek never would have been able to gain power and would have been quickly been sent back to Tartarus. So yes, score one for Twilight, and minus about 10,000 for Celestia. 

 

But unfortunately, Celestia's poor decision-making doesn't stop there. I truly, truly wish it did, but unfortunately, McCarthy was not at all finished running her into the ground. Because once Celestia realizes "I dun goofed!", her very next step is to deliberately render the three ponies who stand the greatest chance against Tirek utterly powerless, and transfer all of their power to Twilight to keep it safe from him. 

 

Why....just....why? 

 

This one just makes no sense. At all. I mean, thinking logically, if you're trying to protect alicorn magic from Tirek, wouldn't transferring it all to a single pony just make it easier for him to get to it, because he would only need to draw from ONE source instead of four? Is there any good reason why Celestia decides to do this instead of taking a stand against Tirek alongside the other three alicorns, which is quite clearly the best chance they had to stop Tirek at that point? And another thing, Celestia makes this decision under the belief that Tirek will not know of the existence of a fourth alicorn, and thus the magic will be safe. But this makes no sense, because Celestia has no reason whatsoever to believe that Discord would not have already told Tirek all about a fourth alicorn, which, of course, he does. And lastly, once their magic is transferred to Twilight, what exactly is she supposed to do then? Celestia doesn't even give Twilight any further measures for keeping it safe--she doesn't advise her to go into hiding or anything. So what the hell makes her think that Tirek isn't going to find her? I'm sorry, but under no logical circumstances does this plan make any sense whatsoever. 

 

But unfortunately, that's still not the end of Celestia's incompetence. Because she then advises that Twilight not tell her friends about this magic transfer under the impression that doing so will simply get them captured by Tirek and pressed for information about Twilight's whereabouts. And Twilight actually follows this advice, but guess what ends up happening? THE REMANE FIVE GET CAPTURED ANYWAY. 

 

There just is not so much as A SINGLE THING that Celestia does in this two-parter that makes even a SHRED of sense. She is portrayed as more incompetent than she's ever been, and it's all for the purpose of giving Twilight enough power to face off against Tirek later on.  

 

As for the fight scene itself, it's certainly epic. And it's certainly darker than anything I would have expected to see in the show. But it's completely and utterly worthless to the plot. Aside from getting Twilight's library home blown up, it really didn't contribute anything to the plot. It was just there to fill some time until Tirek presented Twilight's friends to her and offered them up in exchange for her magic.

 

And Twilight was definitely stupid to give her magic up, I might add. Because, just like Celestia, she had no backup plan, and it was clear that the best chance Equestria had to not end up under Tirek's control was for her to simply keep on fighting until she killed him. And once Twilight decided to give it up, Tirek had no reason whatsoever not to kill her on the spot, and it still makes absolutely no sense to me as to why he did not do that, other than being too dark for a kids' show, of course. Still, though, the pony who had just dished out a serious beating on him had just been rendered completely powerless, and Tirek had sent the other three princesses to Tartarus for pretty much nothing. It makes no sense for him to suddenly drop his vindictiveness and let Twilight and her friends go instead of just kill them right then and there, or at the very least, sending them to Tartarus as well so that they no longer posed any threat to him whatsoever. 

 

Overall, the writing in this two-parter is just awful. It's terrible. It's the worst I've seen in any two-parter. I just hate this episode.  

Edited February 17, 2017 by Cleverclover

[Baykush 328]

I do think Twilight's Kingdom is overrated (it's my opinion, not a fact), and as much as I like Meghan McCarthy I'm glad this was her last two-parter. It had the usual problems almost any two-parter she's ever written has, the first episode is full of exposition and the main conflict takes the whole first episode to start, half of the second episode is build up and then the conflict gets resolved without a proper transition, I also don't think it did a good job to help Twilight embrace her title as the princess of friendship, if anything it only forced her into a position in which she was too OP for her own good (Amending Fences does a much better job with this later on). The episode has its virtues, like the song at the beginning, how it handled Discord's reformation and how "epic" it was, despite what I've said I don't think it's a bad episode and I actually loved it the first time I watched it, but it just doesn't age well once the hype isn't there anymore. It's the same problem A Canterlot Wedding has, although it's not as bad with this episode.

 

I think The Cutie Re-Mark is very underrated, I like it way better than this episode.

[Conred 274]

It was one of the best. While both S4 and S6 finale contained FlutterCord. Twilight Kingdom contained pure energy and excitment and feels while Starlight only dragged her episode down.

[LeafFerret 3,382]

It was one of the best. While both S4 and S6 finale contained FlutterCord. Twilight Kingdom contained pure energy and excitment and feels while Starlight only dragged her episode down.

Well it was her first finale, so don't expect it to be perfect, also I didn't get excited about this episode, the mediocre storywriting was overshadowed by the visuals and "battle".