S07:E10 - A Royal Problem

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,533]

1 minute ago, M'gann M'orzz said:

It's because it's become a fucking cycle at this point, people are just REALLY sick of it. If you don't like a character fine but Starlight's hatedom seems to flat out obsess over her. 

That doesn't give anyone the right to try and silence others because of that. I have been seeing that a lot today. If people are tired of it, then they should ignore it and leave it be. 

I don't think Starlight is a bad character at this point, she sure as hell started out as one, but she is a lot better now. I just feel this particular episode was pretty terrible at having her be a focal point. I feel it didn't work out well. 

[SugarCoatxMarblePie 701]

20 minutes ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

And I always say, "Mission Complete!" once a Cutie Mark glows happily at the end of a Map episode!

This episode was great tho.

Edited May 20, 2017 by CuriUndersXeno

[Nerdy Luigi 2,065]

Cons: Luna and Celestia mid-episode

Pros: EVERYTHING ELSE.

 

This episode is absolutely amazing, and surely the best of the season so far. Everything was great, from the way they handled Starlight, to BALLERINA TWILLY, to the cute pancakes Celestia makes for Luna. The lesson of the episode is one that I think is almost universally applicable even!

I couldn't live with myself if I gave it less than 9.75/10.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Squirrel Luigi
This isn't YouTube. My bad :3

[Will Guide 21,360]

4 hours ago, Squirrel Luigi said:

Cons: Luna and Celestia mid-episode

Pros: EVERYTHING ELSE.

 

This episode is absolutely amazing, and surely the best of the season so far. Everything was great, from the way they handled Starlight, to *BALLERINA TWILLY*, to the cute pancakes Celestia makes for Luna. The lesson of the episode is one that I think is almost universally applicable even!

I couldn't live with myself if I gave it less than 9.75/10.

Nice to hear you say that after the recent episodes I know you hated

I believe this episode did its job and lesson pretty good!

On 5/19/2017 at 10:19 AM, Lambdadelta said:

10th Episodes are cursed. I hope someone will break this cycle

This ep is already controversial even before it is aired. The forum is a little boring recently, hope this ep will shake thing up again.

Bonus: The Drama keeps fandom awake.

I can say that personally for me, this Episode broke the curse! Play this video from 1:56-2:12 for the scene that best sums up this moment!

 

Edited May 20, 2017 by WiiGuy2014
Start the video closer to the intended moment!

[Firedog 320]

GREAT episode. 8.5/10 

Good thing this season appears to have bounced back from the last two episodes. Hard to say anything was pretty bleh and the last one with applejack and rarity was kinda eh.

 

Very well done episode.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

35 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

I don't know. Looking around I am starting to get this slight feeling that if one has anything negative to say about Starlight in any way whatsoever, even if it is proper criticism, then that person's opinion automatically becomes invalid. Just something I've noticed. 

I feel ya, Kyoshi

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,533]

1 minute ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

I feel ya, Kyoshi

That's the thing, I have clearly established that I don't hate Starlight. I used to, that is a fact, but Season 7 has done a much better job at representing her. That is why I feel this episode doesn't succeed anywhere near as much, it doesn't do what the rest of the season has done for her as a character, at least in my eyes. I have provided what I didn't like and what I feel would have made it better, yet I feel like everything I am saying is being tossed out the window, just because I am not 100% praising the episode. Makes me not even want to bother. 

[ManaMinori 4,145]

2 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

That's the thing, I have clearly established that I don't hate Starlight. I used to, that is a fact, but Season 7 has done a much better job at representing her. That is why I feel this episode doesn't succeed anywhere near as much, it doesn't do what the rest of the season has done for her as a character, at least in my eyes. I have provided what I didn't like and what I feel would have made it better, yet I feel like everything I am saying is being tossed out the window, just because I am not 100% praising the episode. Makes me not even want to bother. 

agreed. I don't hate her (as I've said in past threads before). I detest her actions, as far as magic abuse is concerned, and putting her in a plot where its uncalled for. When she's not shoehorned in, and not magiking up for op contrived reasons, I can stand her. This episode, as we've both said, does little to nothing to improve her character, and weakens it, in fact. One step forward, three steps back.

[Ragland Tiger 3,398]

I think many of the things that some people say make Starlight a bad character are the source of her greatest strengths.  Generally, Starlight is a very warm and sensitive character, which makes her very identifiable (at least to me).  She is also very grounded in a way that, perhaps, Celestia and Luna couldn't be.  I'll try and say more about this as I give it more thought.

I for one would like to read more of your thoughts, Kyoshi.

 

[bluseymoe 258]

Good episode. Starlight's still an idiot though.

[Nohate 36]

6 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

I feel ya, Kyoshi

Yeah but for you it's a bit different you just straight up says she's terrible in an episode for no apparent reason. I see you on every MLP site I go to. And you always say Starlight ruins the show in every single Starlight post no matter what, even if the episode is good or Starlight really didn't use magic. It gets redundant and annoying after a while. Especially this post here on Rock Solid Friendship?

Quote

honestly, I don't like this episode. By Putting Maude in Ponyville, it pretty much kills the interaction of Pinkie with her other sisters, who need episodes. Parents, too. And omg, too much Starlight Gutter. Is there NO OTHER pony that Maude could've been friends with? Derpy? DJ Pon3? Snips and Snails? Carrot Top? Cheerilee? But no- again, we get oversaturation of Starlight. uggggggh.

 

[Firedog 320]

Just now, Kyoshi said:

That's the thing, I have clearly established that I don't hate Starlight. I used to, that is a fact, but Season 7 has done a much better job at representing her. That is why I feel this episode doesn't succeed anywhere near as much, it doesn't do what the rest of the season has done for her as a character, at least in my eyes. I have provided what I didn't like and what I feel would have made it better, yet I feel like everything I am saying is being tossed out the window, just because I am not 100% praising the episode. Makes me not even want to bother. 

 

I mean, I think she was characterized fine in my opinion. I think the other characters in the previous episodes really played off her personality really well, which in my opinion, is really why she shined so well in those episodes. 

The interaction between starlight and twilight was still cool to see and pretty funny. 

I really liked the episode, but if anything kept it from being 10/10 it would just be the lack of the characters really playing off starlights personality really well like in the previous episodes.

 

Not that I dislike the episode. The episode was really good imo still a solid:

8.5/10 episode!

 

Edited May 20, 2017 by Firedog

[ManaMinori 4,145]

1 minute ago, Nohate said:

Yeah but for you it's a bit different you just straight up says she's terrible in an episode for no apparent reason. I see you on every MLP site I go to. And you always say Starlight ruins the show in every single Starlight post no matter what, even if the episode is good or Starlight really didn't use magic. It gets redundant and annoying after a while. Especially this post here on Rock Solid Friendship?

 

if I feel she's not needed in an episode, and somepony else could be explored and given characterization, then I'll say it. And I have thank you for pointing that out. I didn't say Starlight is terrible- is she being overused? YES. Would I like to see somepony else if the situation calls for it? YES. Is she a terrible pony just by existing? NO. I've already made that clear by saying I LIKED her appearance in Fluttershy Leans in.

[Jeric 46,851]

4 minutes ago, Ragland Tiger said:

I think many of the things that some people say make Starlight a bad character are the source of her greatest strengths.  Generally, Starlight is a very warm and sensitive character, which makes her very identifiable (at least to me).  She is also very grounded in a way that, perhaps, Celestia and Luna couldn't be.

The grounded comment is apt. I think her internal conflict and actions tend to make her one of the more realistic characters on the show, and a decent character to open up new approaches in a narrative. 

She is not my favorite character, but I'm always very intrigued when she is on screen. 

[Foxy Socks 2,599]

Well, I will say that this episode was not as good as I had hoped.

It was way better!

 

I was worried they might mess it up and mostly only focus on Starlight, but they did a fantastic job and focused on her and the sister equally! When it showed her being called by the Cutie Map I knew she was going to do this right. Though a bit hasty with the spell, she was quite good at handling this, even better than Twilight, who was great in this episode too. I think one of the best things it shows is that not even the Princesses are perfect.

 

I am also really happy they had shown Daybreaker. It definitely showed that they both can be corrupted by their feelings, and that they must work together. I also just loved how it was a Luna and Celestia episode, dealing with their day to day duties. 

[Jeric 46,851]

1 minute ago, Trixie . said:

This was by far my favorite episode, FINALLY we saw Nightmare Star!

That was unexpected and a pleasant surprise! 

 

 

[碇 シンジン 27,431]

wow that was amazing this has to be the best MLP episode I've ever seen  and it didnt even have Rarity 

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,533]

12 minutes ago, Ragland Tiger said:

I think many of the things that some people say make Starlight a bad character are the source of her greatest strengths.  Generally, Starlight is a very warm and sensitive character, which makes her very identifiable (at least to me).  She is also very grounded in a way that, perhaps, Celestia and Luna couldn't be.  I'll try and say more about this as I give it more thought.

I for one would like to read more of your thoughts, Kyoshi.

 

Well, I am glad there is at least one person that still cares about what I have to say. Whether or not I come off as strongly worded, I never intend to create a huge debate or cause trouble, it is just if there is something I don't like, like in an episode or something, I try to get my thoughts out there to the best of my ability, even if it doesn't work. Knowing the odds I just put people off. 

Also, like I said in my first post, I might like this episode more on a second viewing. Might do that tomorrow or something. I am guess I am just feeling really worked up for some reason.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

 

17 minutes ago, Jeric said:

That was unexpected and a pleasant surprise! 

 

 

quite unexpected. But she looks different than her form on the Interplay card.....could there still be another version of her that we'll see in the waking world?

[Gernia 691]

I liked Starlight's direct approach to solving the problem. And the fact it worked out makes me happy.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

I dont expect Starlight used her magic like... instantly, she just ... did it, without any warnings.

Here my first impression:

The pacing of this ep feel too fast, it feel like they dont want to waste any minute of it, they dont give me time to think between scenes or i am just too slow to catch up. You should not review this by just watching it once. This ep make me feel like the V.As and animators are in hurry before the episode end, like the dialogues are fast-paced, the fight scene is fast, the villain (Day Breaker) is just 'poof', i expect some dramatic villian death, it look like they dont want to drag every scene out too long.

Enough with the pacing, i will go with characters. Royal Sisters are kinda... off, they are not what i expected them to be. Are they some angles that i havent discover yet or they are out of character? Luna character is kinda make sense if you stick with her Lunar Eclipse version, so i dont know the writers want to stick with emo-princess or a playful princess like in the comics? (I heard some people love comic-Luna more than show-Luna). Celestia is too casual in this ep, she should be a soft-spoken person with her 'princess' mannerisms, is this Celestia when she not in the public? I gather some pieces in past episodes like Best Night Ever, Make New Friends, Ponyville Confidential, Slice of Life or Celestial Advice, should i conclude this is the True face of Celestia??? I am confused. I dont know this is out of character or character development, because they dont look like Royal Sisters in my HEAD.

I have to rewatch this episode several times to organize my thoughts. I gave Flutter Brutter a 5/10 at first but after the second watch, i gave a 9/10 and place it in my top 10 of S6 so... I give this ep a 7/10, it definitely not a boring episode in the slightest but left me confusing. 

Bonus 1: I really love Twilight in this ep, it's so Twilight.

Bonus 2: i have to agree Starlight is kinda a weird choice for this ep.

Bonus 3: Wait, the map can call other ponies beside Element of Harmony? Too many possibilities for future episode. I want a CMC map episode.

Bonus 4: Luna's nightmare is fucking creepy... remind me one of my dream when my teeth are pulled out of my mouth.......... damn it.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Lambdadelta

[Nohate 36]

35 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

if I feel she's not needed in an episode, and somepony else could be explored and given characterization, then I'll say it. And I have thank you for pointing that out. I didn't say Starlight is terrible- is she being overused? YES. Would I like to see somepony else if the situation calls for it? YES. Is she a terrible pony just by existing? NO. I've already made that clear by saying I LIKED her appearance in Fluttershy Leans in.

Lets see here how is she overused.

Season 5 premiere only appeared as a villain and didn't do much other than take away Twilight and gangs Cutie Mark with only a bit more than half an episode I'll give it around 25 minutes of appearance. Season 5 finale only appeared for using the time travel speed and stopping Twilight which is pretty much only 15 minutes worth of appearance. Along with those two she had only 2 background appearances. You see only around 40 minutes worth of Starlight out of 520 minutes if every episode is 20 minutes long. Moving on!

Season 6 premiere she wasn't the focus of the episode she was sharing it with Flurry Heart with only around 1 episode to herself illl give it 20 minutes worth of appearance. Than in Season 6 episode 6 she got her first episode that she appeared is the majority of so I'll give this one 20 minutes worth of appearance. Than we have Season 6 episode 8 she technically didn't even appear for the whole episode she was acting as Snowfall Frost, but if you still want to count that as well than another 20 minutes. Season 6 episode 12 1 minute appearance fixing the Friendship Map. Season 6 episode 16 meets Thorax and only appeared for around 5 minute of the entire episode. Season 6 episode 21 another full episode to herself 20 minutes. Season 6 episode 24 a 30 second appearance in the castle. Season 6 finale first two parter completely centered around Starlight and her team so a full 40 minutes. 104 1/2 minutes out of 520 minutes.

Season 7 premiere episode 1 she was the topic of focus but it wasn't her episode so she only had around 3 minutes on screen. Season 7 premiere episode 2 she shared half the episode with the Mane 6 so only 10 minutes. Season 7 episode 4 meets Maud but it wasn't her episode so she only had 7 minutes of screen time. Season 7 episode 5 30 seconds or less of background appearance. Season 7 episode 8 name was mentioned. Finally season 7 episode 10 her first 20 minute episode. This season so far she had a total of 40 1/2 minutes of appearance out of 200 minutes.

She doesn't even come close to any of the Mane 6 or CMCs in terms of screen time. Also she is needed in pretty much all the episodes she was in. I could explain it all to you if you want me to.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Nohate

[Truffles 2,033]

1 hour ago, WiiGuy2014 said:

Derpy is Royalty! 

Not just royalty, but check out the kind of crown she's wearing - she sees herself not as a princess, but a Queen! Maybe she's scowling because she dreaming she's evil? XD

 

This was a very good episode, I'm glad I watched this one early, thought it pretty much went the way I expected. I liked it.

The best parts IMO were the scenes with Twilight and Starlight, and even though the map only officially sent Starlight, this was as much a map episode with both of them in attendance. The writers were smart to figure out a way to include Twilight on the mission since having Starlight talking to herself in her room wouldn't have been as interesting. That music box spell she cast was brilliant. I loved seeing Twi freaking out alongside Starlight for a change. XD

And Twilight's sudden appearance at the end, with her mood still switched to full-tilt. Hilarious! Though I'm not sure what to make of Starlight's Spike-themed toothbrush:

Did Spike give this to Starlight as a gift, or did she get it herself?  Also, where is Spike getting toothbrushes that are themed on his design? Did he work out a deal with a Crystal Empire vendor? I hope he's getting some royalties. XD

(Also, where can I buy one? )

[Luminance 2,186]

Wow...I have no words for this episode because it took my breath away. I was already so excited to finally see a Celestia and Luna episode and this one deliveres it to the highest level! Starlight being called by the map makes the most sense because she's unbiased towards neither Royal Princesses a she also didn't took side with neither of them too. She represents the middle-ground in a dispute and with it involving the two most powerful beings in Equestria, you have to be really careful.

I believe she did the right thing to switch their Cutie Marks and their roles/duties as a way for them to "see in another pony's point-of-view". Starlight realized that taking the initiative to be trusting your gut even though it may seem bad can eventually result in extraordinary outcomes. Luna feels like what's to be in Celestia's hooves and vice-versa for Celestia and in that way they can acknowledge that their both have differences both with work they can learn to appreciate and value them, truly. Celestia's alter-ego, Day Breaker is an extremely great design as an antagonist and the dream conflict scene was perfectly intense and delivered enough great action to compliment the emotional conflict within the episode. So far this one stands out for me as the best episode in Season 7 for the inclusion of the Royal Sister's much needed development, Starlight's role as an advocate for decisions for balance and the really great and meaningful closure for Celestia and Luna as sisters who where once torned away from each other from the past. Stellar 10/10.

[Jeric 46,851]

9 minutes ago, Lambdadelta said:

is this Celestia when she not in the public?

Possibly, but we all have different elements of our personality that manifest under different conditions which makes most of us fairly dynamic. We've seen this with many characters who have more screen time. In this case, stressors influenced her disposition which brings out a less than flattering traits. Many of her tonal mannerisms felt like her appearance in Slice of Life which was a casual argument about gift responsibility. This does bring up one of the more nuanced challenges of writing a underdeveloped character within a series. Even when you feel you have reached a balance with bringing out something new and invoking older personality traits and behaviors, to some it will feel off because we simply haven't seen enough of the character. It almost gives us an almost rigid baseline. 

Just now, It's Starlight said:

Wow...I have no words for this episode because it took my breath away

 

 

Couldn't help myself