S07:E20 - A Health of Information

[Ganondox 899]

14 hours ago, jackfettgames said:

Looking back, they're probably coincidences.  I thought they were references to popular headcanons.

And what are the headcanons? 

10 hours ago, age3rcm said:

but princess luna on "luna eclipsed" talks in olde ponish.
the name "mistical mask" is really alike the modern ponish.
 

As Jeric said, she spoke the same language. I'm going to use English as a comparison. 1,000 years ago is when people spoke Old English, so it makes sense from a time line perspective. However, Luna's phrasing was NOT inspired by Old English, but by Elizabethan English...which is actually Modern English. 

[bwrosas 252]

From what others have said, from @DrWolf001 and others, this may be one of the more serious and darker episodes they have done. And if that's the case, it shows how much this Show has changed and evolved from what it was originally meant to be 6 1/2 seasons ago.  But you know, this doesn't surprise me.  A lot of media (TV Shows, Comics, Movies, Etc...) have gone through similar changes throughout their histories.  

Especially when it's decided to go in a direction to what MLP : FIM has been going in recently with this "Legends Of Magic" Arc, (That ironically ties in with the IDW Comic).  Because when you toss something like "Legends of Magic" into the picture, then you know for a fact, that some of what it is shown, will go over the heads of the original target age audiences, but not the adult audience/fanbase.

Example of that is when @DrWolf001 and @TericDragon mentioned in their review, that even through the episode and thus the writing staff didn't outright say it or have the characters , like say Mage (in the flashback) or even Twilight say it, pretty much the ponies turning into trees as a result of the Swamp Fever and being those that produced the glowing flowers that came off them was a metaphor for death.  In other words, when the ponies (in the flashback), as well as Zecora and Fluttershy were affected by the swamp fever, it was slowly killing them, thus they were slowly dying.

And for them to do that, despite already going TV-Y7 for the season 4 finale, and doing what they've done in the season 3 finale, and so on, shows how far MLP : FIM has come.

I also believe this arc and episodes like this, are just to get folks ready for the film and show that like this arc and episodes, the movie is not for little kids, but for all ages, (adults and kids) and that it will have stuff in it that will go over the younger kids heads, but not the adult fans that go and see it. (Heck why do you think it got a PG rating?)

In closing, I will say this, if this episode has shown us anything or at least hinted at anything, it's that "Shadow Play Part 1 and 2" will be more than we expect it to be, and as I said before, possibly have a story twist in it, that we may see or won't see coming.

That's all I have to say for now. God Bless and Take Care.

[tinker 89]

Finally got a chance to binge watch the last three episodes as I was, ironically, sent home early today after working all weekend. 

As an unrepentant Earth pony promoter, I am pleased to see that there's no huge fandom outcry that Meadowbrook was of the hornless variety of equines, and I'd like to add my own two bits into the hat.

First, she was an enigmatic healer that wore a mask, appearing for just a single night and "magically" curing all ponies of their ills. I can see why contemporary ponies of her era may have attributed such abilities to an active magic wielding unicorn if they could not see her face.

Secondly, the sheer amount of time and evolution of language means that any Modern Ponish texts (which I'm assuming is what they used to teach at Gifted Unicorns) need to be taken with a lick of salt. Given the magical scholarly focus of Equestria, the Old Ponish term for "wise" or "learned" could have been attributed to "mage" when translating (hence "Mage Meadowbrook"), and therefore to "unicorn" as well by an innocent mistake. Few primary texts from over a thousand years ago can be reliably used without addressing both issues in translation and accounting for contemporary beliefs and biases.

Finally: was it ever stated outright that she was an Earth pony to Twilight and Fluttershy? The audience got to see so in the flashbacks, but the ponies weren't privy to such narrative devices. While there are a number of circumstantial pieces of evidence to this (Cattail's tribe; Meadowbrook's adobe and method of healing e.g.), none of these are definitive, and the reason that Twilight does not comment on the disparity could be that she is simply not aware of it. I'm sure that finding the laboratory home and journals of a respected healer would be of significant academic interest to Twilight - being able to correct the history books regarding Meadowbrook's tribe would have certainly brought out the adorkable Twilight that we love had she known.

Finally finally: the magic mane fiasco in Twilight's castle reminded me of a scene from one of @Novel Idea's stories. That was awesome!

[Ganondox 899]

7 hours ago, Sh Pie said:

This disease seems to have effects on the host's mind as well with Zecora losing her ability to rhyme, must be part of the transition from pony to plant since plants don't rhyme.

There is a simpler explanation: Zecora's rhymes are deliberate, and being so sick just made it hard to keep her game on. 

[Jeric 46,835]

4 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

There is a simpler explanation: Zecora's rhymes are deliberate, and being so sick just made it hard to keep her game on. 

It's how I saw it too. If the final result is that you become a tree, at some point your higher brain functions are going to change a little ... excluding the Tree of Harmony of course. From personal experience, people who are that ill tend to slow down a little mentally, which can be a great source of anxiety for the inflicted. The fact that Zecora took it mostly in stride speaks pretty highly of her character. Fluttershy's reaction is similar to what a family member would feel internally should they notice the slipping mental faculty of their friends or loved one. It also acts and emotional kindling to push Fluttershy to desperately search for a cure since it plays on her feelings of guilt as well. 

In my mind some of Fluttershy's carelessness was caused by three things: exhaustion, the disease, and being so hyper focused ... a recipe for bad judgement. So she may have had similar symptoms. 

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

On ‎2017‎-‎09‎-‎23 at 5:03 PM, Truffles said:

While Equestria might be better off if Spoiled Rich were a tree, I admit sacrificing Diamond's mom and Filthy's wife is a pretty steep price to pay for the two of them.

And it would go against the moralities the show stands for.

[heavens-champion 1,893]

I have three words for you:

"NON-STICK PANS!"

[GiFTGewEhrSCHutzen-4 8,827]

A Fluttershy episode which is not bad. I was also impressed in her researching skills, also her resolve in finding a cure to Zecora's Swamp Fever. I'm no FS fan, but hat's off to her for doing it and saving Zecora from being turned into a tree. Also, I did get a surprise from Zecora not rhyming, but then again it's the fever causing her to not speak in her usual rhyming thing. All in all, the episode is great. Oh, yeah, it's nice to see that Twilight gets to bake. Guess we have 2 Princesses now who are good in baking. 

[Justin_Case001 4,857]

Two Zecora appearances back to back!?  How lucky are we?!

I really liked this one.  Great premise.  I absolutely loved that we got to see a bigger part for Zecora.  I only wished she had been featured even more.  It was really a Flutter/Twi costar, when I was hoping for a Flutter/Zecora costar.  But it was still a very decent part, and much more than she usually gets.  I'm still hoping for a Zecora spotlight one day where they actually develop her character, but this episode was definitely better than nothing, and I'll take it.

Um....let's see...I thought the moral of taking care of yourself in order to take care of others was a wee bit forced.  I just didn't think it was necessary to state it explicitly.  Um...the only other thing that bothered me was the fact that nopony thought to ask the Sisters about Meadowbrooke.  This always makes me mad.  Twilight, you have the greatest resource at your hooftips, and you don't use it.  Did it occur to you that the Sisters were very likely alive at the same time as Meadowbrooke?  They may have even known her.  Celestia probably knows more about Equestrian history than anyone in the world, but all they do is look through books.  Always annoys me how they forget the Sisters.

We had some adorable scenes in this one.  Sleeping Twi getting startled awake, and then having cooking nightmares.  Sleeping ponies are probably the most adorable thing there is.  What is it about being asleep that increases cuteness?  If something or someone is cute, being asleep magnifies their cuteness.  I don't think it has to do with unconsciousness, per se.  Is it the vulnerability?  I don't know, but it's precious.

I loved when Zecora failed to rhyme.  That was hilarious.  I've often wondered if she has to rhyme, or it's just something she chooses to do because she likes it.  Can she choose not to?  Well, apparently yes.  It takes some amount of effort, and if she's not feeling well, she may not rhyme.

I'm glad they at least made a fair effort to explain away the magic conundrum.  I.e. they attempted to explain why Twilight couldn't instantly solve the honey problem with magic.  This was definitely another one of those cases where I kept asking, "Why can't Twilight just freaking teleport the honey out of there?!"  I would hope that if they ran out of time for Zecora and Fluttershy, Twilight would have said "f*ck it" and just killed the bees with magic and teleported the damn honey.  I was definitely glad to see that Twilight used telekinesis to lift a weakened Fluttershy up to the tree.  I hate it when they just forget they can do that.

I thought it was abundantly obvious that swamp fever was supposed to be fatal.  When the doctor described the progression of the disease, it really seemed like the writers were saying, "...and then...death.  Yes, death.  It kills you, but we can't say that, so here's our silly excuse."  The turning into a tree thing was a little goofy, but I didn't mind it since I took it as a stand-in for death.  That's basically what turning into a tree would be, anyway.  It would end your consciousness, so that's death for all intents and purposes.  But the tree thing actually created some interesting questions throughout the episode that I was wondering about.  First off, I didn't know if they were actually going to find Meadowbrooke or not.  Now, I'll just state for the record that I have never been opposed to having other long-lived ponies besides alicorns.  Who's to say that there aren't unicorns powerful enough to have figured out how to slow the aging process?  I always imagined that being the case with Starswirl.  That's a headcanon of mine.  But once they found that swamp fever plant in Meadowbrooke's house, I was afraid that the plant was Meadowbrooke.  I thought it was going to go down like this: Meadowbrooke came down with the fever but never found the cure.  She turned into the plant.  Fluttershy continues Meadowbrooke's research and finds the cure, then uses it on the plant, which transforms back into Meadowbrooke, who basically acts as though she's been in cryosleep for hundreds or thousands of years, saying that the last thing she remembered was sprouting a leaf on her head and then falling asleep.  I'm REALLY glad they didn't go that way, because that would have been too silly, in my opinion.

Now, on a related note, when Fluttershy first went to the castle to get Twi's help, I had a great idea for another one of my silly crossover bits.  So, as I said, I thought that maybe they would actually find Meadowbrooke alive, and it gave me this hilarious idea.  So, if you don't already know how my crazy mind works, I'm constantly thinking of ponified crossover gags that I wish I could make.  I really wish that everyone could just see into my mind so you could instantly see these ideas I have.  Text doesn't do them justice.  So, here's what I imagined: Fluttershy says, "I know we can find the masked healer, and I know just the pony who can help us!"  Then we cut to the castle, and Fluttershy is talking to Twilight, and Twilight is in a wheelchair.  Twilight says, "Oh, of course I can find your missing healer.  Please, follow me."  Then she leads Fluttershy to an elevator that takes them to the castle's basement where they enter a long, polished crystal hallway with a locked door like a portal at the other end.  Fluttershy walks beside Twilight as she rolls along, and says, "Thank you so much for helping me, Twilight.  I didn't even know the castle had a basement.  What are we doing down here?  How exactly are you going to locate Meadowbrooke?"  And then Twi would respond, "I'll show you."  Then Twilight would stop in front of the locked door, and then this happens:

Professor = Twilight, Logan = Fluttershy, Rogue = Meadowbrooke, Jean = Starlight, Scott = probably Trixie, I guess.

I'm so stupid.  I'm such a nut.  Lol.    Oh mercy.  Celestia help me.

Okay, byesie bye for now.

[jackfettgames 50]

6 hours ago, Ganondox said:

And what are the headcanons?

Like Twilight getting bored with books in that one scene where Fluttershy is desperately researching.  Like I said, I now think it's a coincidence.

[Zel 56]

Not a great episode, but a good one nonetheless.

The lesson felt a bit weird for me. Don't get me wrong, I think the lesson was good : taking care of yourslef to be able to take care of others is a really important one but... it just didn't really fit right in the narration for me. All of the first act was setting the lesson nicely with Fluttershy overworking herself to exhaustion and see her fail because of the fact she hadn't any rest would have conveyed the lesson at a good pace and without feeling forced. But by the law of the three acts script writting, Fluttershy caught the Swamp Fever as well and I think it was an error. Because after that it's an easy mistake to think she pass out because of the illness and not because of her previous actions. And Fluttershy didn't conciously decided to take a break but was forced to... So all in all the lesson was kinda lost in all this mess in my opinion.

Still cool to see Meadowbrook after her first mention in the show (it's kind of stupid that she's an Earth Pony now whereas she was mentionned as a unicorn back in season 5... Twillight didn't even reference that and wasn't surprised in the slightest by the fact that Meadowbrook wasn't what she was said to be... it could have been an error... this episode could have fixed this problem but choose to ignore it totally). Her design was pretty good but not mindblowing and her story was not really that great either but what better than almost every other legends told so far (well there is very little competition since only Mistmane's and her's are any good in the first place...)

All in all a pretty good episode. Fluttershy was good, Twillight and Zecora too. The descendant of Meadowbrook... yeah, didn't really care about him... he was mostly here as a plot device to keep the story moving but even as a plot device he was mostly useless since the ponies could have found the books by herselfs... he could have been cut entierly from this episode without any problem at all...

[takai 1,060]

Enjoyable episode. However, right off the bat I have a problem. Why doesn't Fluttershy just fly over to the moss and grab it herself? I guess that's being nitpicky, but I digress.

So happy to see a Fluttershy/Twilight episode. Can't remember the last time we had one. Twilight was so cute the entire time 

I think this is a great example of how far Fluttershy has come as a character.

[Ganondox 899]

9 hours ago, jackfettgames said:

Like Twilight getting bored with books in that one scene where Fluttershy is desperately researching.  Like I said, I now think it's a coincidence.

I was asking more about the cooking one. 

[BlinkZ 1,151]

Frist Spike has a plusheie of Rarity and now her sleep mask..okay that jsut stalker territory

6 hours ago, Zel said:

Not a great episode, but a good one nonetheless.

The lesson felt a bit weird for me. Don't get me wrong, I think the lesson was good : taking care of yourslef to be able to take care of others is a really important one but... it just didn't really fit right in the narration for me. All of the first act was setting the lesson nicely with Fluttershy overworking herself to exhaustion and see her fail because of the fact she hadn't any rest would have conveyed the lesson at a good pace and without feeling forced. But by the law of the three acts script writting, Fluttershy caught the Swamp Fever as well and I think it was an error. Because after that it's an easy mistake to think she pass out because of the illness and not because of her previous actions. And Fluttershy didn't conciously decided to take a break but was forced to... So all in all the lesson was kinda lost in all this mess in my opinion.

Still cool to see Meadowbrook after her first mention in the show (it's kind of stupid that she's an Earth Pony now whereas she was mentionned as a unicorn back in season 5... Twillight didn't even reference that and wasn't surprised in the slightest by the fact that Meadowbrook wasn't what she was said to be... it could have been an error... this episode could have fixed this problem but choose to ignore it totally). Her design was pretty good but not mindblowing and her story was not really that great either but what better than almost every other legends told so far (well there is very little competition since only Mistmane's and her's are any good in the first place...)

All in all a pretty good episode. Fluttershy was good, Twillight and Zecora too. The descendant of Meadowbrook... yeah, didn't really care about him... he was mostly here as a plot device to keep the story moving but even as a plot device he was mostly useless since the ponies could have found the books by herselfs... he could have been cut entierly from this episode without any problem at all...

Hmm yeah, i agree, when that flutterhy got infect i was like "wait how she get infected" i mean if it wa the polen then she be sidk the same time as Zecora. it just came out of nowhere

[DonMaguz 1,023]

22 minutes ago, BlinkZ said:

Frist Spike has a plusheie of Rarity and now her sleep mask..okay that jsut stalker territory

Stalker Spike was pretty much implied at the beginning of Honest Apple, I'm not surprised at this point just a bit sad for the little dude.

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

17 hours ago, Jeric said:

It's how I saw it too. If the final result is that you become a tree, at some point your higher brain functions are going to change a little ... excluding the Tree of Harmony of course. From personal experience, people who are that ill tend to slow down a little mentally, which can be a great source of anxiety for the inflicted. The fact that Zecora took it mostly in stride speaks pretty highly of her character. Fluttershy's reaction is similar to what a family member would feel internally should they notice the slipping mental faculty of their friends or loved one. It also acts and emotional kindling to push Fluttershy to desperately search for a cure since it plays on her feelings of guilt as well. 

In my mind some of Fluttershy's carelessness was caused by three things: exhaustion, the disease, and being so hyper focused ... a recipe for bad judgement. So she may have had similar symptoms. 

I agree. From my personal experience with ill friends/family,they make mental errors in their weakened ill state. The doc did also mention the disease caused confusion now that I think about it. I also think Zecora is aware that Fluttershy gets scared easily in less serious circumstances so Zecora had the awareness to remain calm in front of Fluttershy when she forgot to rhyme, which speaks very highly of Zecora on many levels, as Zecora has to be very scared given that she is fully aware of turning into a tree. Zecora shows this same strength,maturity and grace at the hospital when she re assures Fluttershy it was not her fault.    

Edited September 25, 2017 by StitchandMLPlover

[jackfettgames 50]

2 hours ago, Ganondox said:

I was asking more about the cooking one. 

I honestly don't know where I got that from.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

15 hours ago, Zel said:

But by the law of the three acts script writting, Fluttershy caught the Swamp Fever as well and I think it was an error. Because after that it's an easy mistake to think she pass out because of the illness and not because of her previous actions. And Fluttershy didn't conciously decided to take a break but was forced to... So all in all the lesson was kinda lost in all this mess in my opinion.

9 hours ago, BlinkZ said:

Hmm yeah, i agree, when that flutterhy got infect i was like "wait how she get infected" i mean if it wa the polen then she be sidk the same time as Zecora. it just came out of nowhere

It makes sense when you think about it. Twilight took care of herself via a solid night's sleep. Unlike her, Fluttershy stayed up all night, meaning she's more susceptible to contagious illness, and swamp fever (which she caught from Zecora) is one such example. Her lack of sleep took a toll on her physically, psychologically, and emotionally to the point where she experienced the disease's second-worst symptom (disorientation) really quickly. Had she not faint and sleep for three days, she could've died.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Dark Qiviut

[Thrond 3,257]

48 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

It makes sense when you think about it. Twilight took care of herself via a solid night's sleep. Unlike her, Fluttershy stayed up all night, meaning she's more susceptible to contagious illness, and swamp fever (which she caught from Zecora) is one such example. Her lack of sleep took a toll on her physically, psychologically, and emotionally to the point where she experienced the disease's second-worst symptom (disorientation) really quickly. Had she not faint and sleep for three days, she could've died.

But Zecora showed symptoms immediately despite no evidence of being in poor shape beforehand. I admit to not knowing much about diseases, but why would Fluttershy's symptoms take so long to appear? 

[KH7672 1,604]

6 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

But Zecora showed symptoms immediately despite no evidence of being in poor shape beforehand. I admit to not knowing much about diseases, but why would Fluttershy's symptoms take so long to appear? 

I'd have to guess second hand exposure is different than primary exposure. We only actually saw Zecora and Meadowbrook's mother get it immediately because they were hit by the gas. All the other bayou ponies and the doctor got it after an indeterminate amount of time probably because second-hand exposure to a victim is not as potent but still happens eventually (especially when one's immune system is weak from sleep deprivation and over-exhaustion)

Edited September 26, 2017 by KH7672

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

9 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

But Zecora showed symptoms immediately despite no evidence of being in poor shape beforehand.

Zecora caught swamp fever immediately after the lily sneezed in her face. FS caught Zecora's disease because her immune system weakened.

[Thrond 3,257]

2 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Zecora caught swamp fever immediately after the lily sneezed in her face. FS caught Zecora's disease because her immune system weakened.

Where did she catch it from? 

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

Just now, AlexanderThrond said:

Where did she catch it from? 

Fluttershy got it from Zecora.

[PonyHag1 591]

Good episode. I like Zecora, and it's always nice to see Fluttershy showing some assertiveness.

[Truffles 2,033]

On 9/24/2017 at 2:01 AM, Music Chart Fan said:

Twilight tries to recruit Fluttershy to give a second opinion for the cook-off between her and Spike, but who was the first opinion - each other? Can Twilight and Spike trust themselves and each other to objectively judge whether their own food or their competitor's food is better?

I have to believe they would draft Starlight into this role under normal circumstances - after all, she's living right there in the castle with them. She seems like she'd be pretty objective judge. (Though I suppose the cooking she allowed back in her village might be an argument against that! XD ) If the two of them relied on each other to judge each other's food, you're probably right that it would mostly end in a stalemate with each of them proclaiming their submission was better. They may love each other, but I'd like to think they still have the intense rivalry hinted at in earlier seasons.

 

On 9/25/2017 at 4:51 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

I'm glad they at least made a fair effort to explain away the magic conundrum.  I.e. they attempted to explain why Twilight couldn't instantly solve the honey problem with magic.  This was definitely another one of those cases where I kept asking, "Why can't Twilight just freaking teleport the honey out of there?!"  I would hope that if they ran out of time for Zecora and Fluttershy, Twilight would have said "f*ck it" and just killed the bees with magic and teleported the damn honey.

Even though I was also glad they tried to explain the failures, I still didn't get why she couldn't grab a glob of honey from a bunch of bees - angry and magical or not. But you hit on something really interesting: How far would have Twilight gone to save Fluttershy and Zecora's lives? If she couldn't teleport the honey out, she could have certainly used levitation to drill a hole in the bottom of the hive and drained it into a container. It would suck for the bees, but better than the alternative that you brought up - killing all of them to get the honey.

Now that would have been an interesting moral dilemma for Twilight: Does she kill the bees so her friends can live even though doing so might alienate her from Fluttershy forever? You would think she would be angry at Twilight for condemning an entire hive of bees to death just so she wouldn't turn into a tree, but then again Flutters did have no problem killing some of her fish friends to feed her other animal friends back in S1, so it's not quite as black and white as one might think - especially how motivated she was to get a cure for Zecora. Interesting possibilities to consider had the episode decided to go that route!