spoiler S09:E16 - A Trivial Pursuit

[bwrosas 252]

28 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Wow... two character-breaking episodes in a row now? Yeeesh....

What happened? Things were going so good.

Is Twilight's anxiety getting WORSE? She seems to be wigging out in almost every episode now.

I seem to speculate and theorize, that this episodes (the first 3 at least of the 2nd half), were stories that the writers behind them wanted to do in pervious seasons, where they would actually fit in continuity with the season they were probably planning to be part of. 

But unfortunaly, they didn't have time to fit them in, until now that is.

I mean, if you want a good example, look at the 2017 movie, Which many feel the context of that fit in more with the season 4-6 continuity, than seasons 7-8.

So perhaps, that's why these first 3 feel a little out of place.

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

2 hours ago, StitchandMLPlover said:

Honestly I think only at the end when she was disqualified did it click with Pinkie Pie that the competition meant something big to Twilight and Pinkie rightfully acknowledged that. Twilight should have been a better communicator to Pinkie, Pinkie could have picked up on things sooner, and Twi definitely should not have disqualified her. I think the problem you are getting at is a larger problem with the ideals of the DHX staff who prioritize fun over competition in unrealistic ways. I saw this pattern in the first BuckBall season episode where the lesson of fun over winning was hammered in and was unrealistic as it suggested that you don’t need to practice a sport, just have fun doing it as others on the forum have said. “Friendship Games” ending kinda falls into this same bad pattern when Principal Celestia say “After today, we are ALL winners” when Canterlot High clearly should have won IMHO. It was like an awful participation trophy ending! In a larger sense the problem you are getting at is a tendency in modern times to discourage competition for fear of competition turning into negative forms of competition, especially in children because adults want kids to stay fun oriented like Pinkie Pie rather than overly serious like Twilight was. Just my 2 cents. 

Eh, there's mounting evidence that competition is pretty detrimental to mental health. It's bad enough that this is forced on all children in the first place in schools. More often then not, sports is an avenue for proxy-bullying. You get a chance to boost your own ego by making others feel like garbage, with zero risk of punishment. It's a form of stress that absolutely isn't needed, and there are some who simply do not enjoy that kind of thing. "But what about exercise?" There are plenty of forms of exercise that don't require dividing kids up into teams and pitting them against each other. "But competition is good! It prepares them for the real world!" Unless you're on a stage, no form of competition in the "real world" puts you out there with a whole bunch of other people who are going to watch you win or lose. It's a completely different kind of environment, and one that a lot of people would much rather avoid. And for those who feel compelled to win, like they HAVE to... it's actually not good for them either, unless they're winning ALL the time (looking at you in this episode, Twilight). The drive to keep winning in a competitive space is actually strikingly similar to a gambling addiction.

Doesn't mean it's inherently bad, but the balancing act between fun and success is a VERY tricky one to navigate, and it's terribly easy for it to turn into an obsession. Saying that "just have fun" is a 'participation award' is a negative message going to the other extreme. A better way to look at competition though would be to ask yourself, do you still enjoy the game when you're losing? If not, then it's not actually the game you like, it's the high of winning that the game provides; a game that you happen to be proficient at.

And actually... this is all exemplified most in... it's kind of interesting you slammed these other examples but you were just using Rainbow Rocks as a good lesson moments ago. One of RR's prevailing themes is that competition is divisive and harmful. It even almost tears apart the Mane 6. Twilight's behavior in the trivia game feels strikingly similar to how RD was behaving in Rainbow Rocks.

I'm going to have to find the buckball episode again and see what was said. I don't see any reason to think anyone has ever said that having fun means you don't need to practice to get better. It's really strange how much competition is pushed on kids though. Spending all this time teaching them how to play all of these different games. But no regard for teaching them to find a healthy balance between fun and success. But why stop there? School doesn't even care if kids are enjoying it in the first place.

[YoshiAngemon 223]

43 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Wow... two character-breaking episodes in a row now? Yeeesh....

What happened? Things were going so good.

Is Twilight's anxiety getting WORSE? She seems to be wigging out in almost every episode now.

If you thought Twilight's anxiety is bad now, wait until she has to face Grogar. Maybe all this anxiety would be so bad she'd be better off Evil, and become Princess Midnight Sparkle! Or she'd be crying, asking herself if she's truly worthy of being Celestia's Successor.

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

2 minutes ago, YoshiAngemon said:

If you thought Twilight's anxiety is bad now, wait until she has to face Grogar. Maybe all this anxiety would be so bad she'd be better off Evil, and become Princess Midnight Sparkle! Or she'd be crying, asking herself if she's truly worthy of being Celestia's Successor.

They'd better not go that far, unless they actually make a point that Twilight is putting too much weight on her shoulders. But that seems to be a common issue with her now, always seeming to forget that she doesn't have to do everything on her own. She may have snapped a bit at one point with Pinkie, but overall, look at how she behaved in the movie. The festival was freaking her out like crazy, but I don't remember her having anymore panic attacks after all Hell breaks loose.

[Dawn-Sunlight 1,228]

Wait, this episode was funny?  Did I miss something?  For me the episode was pretty boring and unlike Sunset's Backstage Pass the events leading up to the moral justify the moral instead of making the character just accept something because reasons.  The problem is, Twilight should have gotten a little more of a punishment because what she did to Pinkie Pie was cruel.  When I was in 6th grade, I would usually play touch football with a group of boys.  I wasn't that bad at it, I actually think I was pretty good.  I did feel a little weird sometimes being the only girl there, but I wanted to play, so I was going to play, it was that simple.  And the reason this relates to the episode is because I felt like nopony really wanted me on their team and were only letting me play because I was going to play regardless of whether they wanted me to or not, so when I caught the few passes that would come my way, and played pretty well, I felt GREAT.  When I dropped a pass or played really poorly, I felt like it was just more proof for them of why I shouldn't be passed to.  And my point is, when you have somepony on your team who based on their actions you can assume doesn't want you on the team, and you mess up, it makes you feel like you have an empty void of darkness inside you.  And Pinkie Pie did nothing to deserve Twilight's reaction.  Also, this kinda felt like a retread of Sunset’s Backstage Pass, only instead of being enjoyable and having a garbage moral, it had a good moral and was pretty boring.  And honestly, I’d rather have an enjoyable story so I actually want to watch it again.

[Sparklefan1234 169,731]

The "Having fun is more important than winning." moral* seems like more of a lesson for Rainbow Dash than Twilight, IMO. 

*That's how I interpreted the episode. 

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

This feels like a finale to Twilights freakouts, it was always a popular and funny aspect of her character that kind of overstayed it's welcome and was often overblown. I like Twilighting when it makes sense in the plot. Here I could easily say it doesn't but I don't really care, it was really funny and just a joy to watch. It doesn't rank super highly with me but I still thought it was a great episode
My rank is an 85/100

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

3 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

It really depends on the person you're dealing with. Friendships are quite versatile and I can assure you that this shall not work on them all. Moreover, I wonder what the behavior was. What if the other party still believes that they are in the right and the other one who bought the merch was a fool all along? There are other benefits to human relationships. I cannot just assume that what you are describing is true since I did not observe the individuals. What you describe happens at workplace too, sans friendships and impulsive purchase of unnecessary items.

 

 

 

Just because something is shit doesn't alleviate the shittiness of another IP. I'm not bringing in just any religion. I'm bringing in the Outer Gods and all the Ruinous Powers at my disposal, and there is no canon argument that can counter this summoning. The enigmatic and indestructible Harmony that dictates everything and holds the power of life and death over all that it surveys, the blind following of Friendship teachings that do not work, the cautionary tales that one falls to ruin if they do not follow the teachings of Friendship, it all comes down to the pattern of malignant gods. Those who follow without question are believers.

 

 

 

Now you are beginning to see. However, again, you see only one side. See both Pinkie and Twilight and understand what they want. What you describe is indeed a problem that, among others, needs to be conveyed to our glorious writers. The other problem is that friends understand each other. Mane 6 do not. What good are lessons to strangers that did not find it within themselves to get to know each other in the span of 9 seasons? Both Twilight and Pinkie have operated on the principle of "All for One" while they both ignored "One for All". And it's not just this episode. All the ponies do it quite consistently while preaching Friendship. They're quite selfish and prejudiced little bastards, all of them. That is why the lessons do not work. They are a part of a social program that ignores the needs of an individual, not of a journey of discovery between individuals. That is why, whenever a lesson is involved, it ignores the specific characters quirks since it is assumed that everyone who cannot abide by the lesson are wrong by default. That is why Twilight is not so much at fault here cause it should have been taken into account that her version of having fun is completely different, but that was not the case. The fault should have been distributed between the two characters for different aforementioned reasons.

 

Of course it depends on the individual how the lesson comes across. The show does not need to be overhauled to fit what speaks to one person, that’s my whole point. There is an entire 9 seasons with different lessons displayed in different ways. This Trivia episode did not speak to me or others and that’s fine. For K, he lashed out on an email in a very inappropriate way so he knew that even if his friend was partly to blame for pissing K off originally, K’s ACTIONS, like Twilight’s ACTIONS in getting Pinkie disqualified, was what put him MORE in the wrong. Btw this was a person who K also had as a colleague at one point. It is K’s business how he interprets the lesson and how he chooses to spend his money. Sorry, no disrespect intended.

 

I don’t understand what you are saying in regards to religion, dogma and “Harmony” at all except I did see ethnocentric behavior by the ponies when they opened the school of friendship which I didn’t particularly like. The ponies made it seem like pony society was the superior ideal which was annoying. The other creatures and the ponies should be teaching each other friendship lessons in a more balanced way. Frankly I don’t think the writers have skill enough to write metaphors for racism and it doesn’t fit well in the universe at all. The metaphors for racial diversity always really felt “off” and unnatural.

 

Congrats you are reminded that the Mane 6 are NOT perfect!!!! That is why the show is so great. These characters are allowed to be selfish as a flaw. I think we can both agree that the way this episode was written fit WAY better in seasons 1 to 3 instead of the very last season. Pinkie made mistakes and Twilight made mistakes yes, but I don’t think Pinkie Pie was as uncaring as you paint her.  Pinkie Pie answered questions, albeit somewhat obnoxiously, and was genuine in her concern that Twilight would not win or that Twilight may not even get to play the game at all, when she became disqualified. Re watch the episode clip on youtube and look at Pinkie’s concerned, sad expression when she realizes how her disqualification may effect Twilight and her desires. Where you lose me in your analysis is where you suggest Pinkie did not care whatsoever when she obviously did care and just had a different approach to the game that Twi understandably found annoying because Pinkie was being hyperactive and had never played before. I can understand Pinkie acknowledging her mistakes and you are right, the characters should know each others needs and wants more in the very last season, but Twilights actions and reactions as I said put Twilight more in the wrong in this episode. Pinkie and Twi would be more evenly in the wrong if hypothetically Twilight asked Pinkie not to join the game because it was for professional players and Pinkie disregarded the request and played as a novice for “fun” dismissing Twilight’s wants, but that’s NOT what happened here. Any pony of any skill level, could play, at any time. The rules allow Pinkie to participate fully. Twilight never told Pinkie much at the beginning except that Pinkie needed coaching. Twilight rolled with Pinkie Pie as her partner even when Spike asked her if she could win. Twilight never communicated.

 

Just my 2 cents again. No offense.

 

2 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Eh, there's mounting evidence that competition is pretty detrimental to mental health. It's bad enough that this is forced on all children in the first place in schools. More often then not, sports is an avenue for proxy-bullying. You get a chance to boost your own ego by making others feel like garbage, with zero risk of punishment. It's a form of stress that absolutely isn't needed, and there are some who simply do not enjoy that kind of thing. "But what about exercise?" There are plenty of forms of exercise that don't require dividing kids up into teams and pitting them against each other. "But competition is good! It prepares them for the real world!" Unless you're on a stage, no form of competition in the "real world" puts you out there with a whole bunch of other people who are going to watch you win or lose. It's a completely different kind of environment, and one that a lot of people would much rather avoid. And for those who feel compelled to win, like they HAVE to... it's actually not good for them either, unless they're winning ALL the time (looking at you in this episode, Twilight). The drive to keep winning in a competitive space is actually strikingly similar to a gambling addiction.

Doesn't mean it's inherently bad, but the balancing act between fun and success is a VERY tricky one to navigate, and it's terribly easy for it to turn into an obsession. Saying that "just have fun" is a 'participation award' is a negative message going to the other extreme. A better way to look at competition though would be to ask yourself, do you still enjoy the game when you're losing? If not, then it's not actually the game you like, it's the high of winning that the game provides; a game that you happen to be proficient at.

And actually... this is all exemplified most in... it's kind of interesting you slammed these other examples but you were just using Rainbow Rocks as a good lesson moments ago. One of RR's prevailing themes is that competition is divisive and harmful. It even almost tears apart the Mane 6. Twilight's behavior in the trivia game feels strikingly similar to how RD was behaving in Rainbow Rocks.

I'm going to have to find the buckball episode again and see what was said. I don't see any reason to think anyone has ever said that having fun means you don't need to practice to get better. It's really strange how much competition is pushed on kids though. Spending all this time teaching them how to play all of these different games. But no regard for teaching them to find a healthy balance between fun and success. But why stop there? School doesn't even care if kids are enjoying it in the first place.

You are right. Competition is a balancing act. I just felt the line by Celestia in "Friendship Games" was a cop out ever since I first saw it though. Yes Both "Friendship Games" and "Rainbow Rocks" are examples of bad competition leading to negative outcomes which should be addressed by the show. I was just giving an example of how certain lessons are taken in differently by different people by using "Rainbow Rocks". It's all subjective. I completely agree about human RD and the behavior of Twilight in "Trivial"! I don't like competition being pushed on kids at really young ages either, it has to be age appropriate, so that's why I think Pinkie's fun approach to the game in "Trivial" was actually perfectly fine to teach the younger demographic of the show and why Twilight was definitely in the wrong.  

Edited August 18, 2019 by StitchandMLPlover

[Goat-kun 2,527]

2 hours ago, StitchandMLPlover said:

Of course it depends on the individual how the lesson comes across. The show does not need to be overhauled to fit what speaks to one person, that’s my whole point. There is an entire 9 seasons with different lessons displayed in different ways. This Trivia episode did not speak to me or others and that’s fine. For K, he lashed out on an email in a very inappropriate way so he knew that even if his friend was partly to blame for pissing K off originally, K’s ACTIONS, like Twilight’s ACTIONS in getting Pinkie disqualified, was what put him MORE in the wrong. Btw this was a person who K also had as a colleague at one point. It is K’s business how he interprets the lesson and how he chooses to spend his money. Sorry, no disrespect intended.

 

I don’t understand what you are saying in regards to religion, dogma and “Harmony” at all except I did see ethnocentric behavior by the ponies when they opened the school of friendship which I didn’t particularly like. The ponies made it seem like pony society was the superior ideal which was annoying. The other creatures and the ponies should be teaching each other friendship lessons in a more balanced way. Frankly I don’t think the writers have skill enough to write metaphors for racism and it doesn’t fit well in the universe at all. The metaphors for racial diversity always really felt “off” and unnatural.

 

Congrats you are reminded that the Mane 6 are NOT perfect!!!! That is why the show is so great. These characters are allowed to be selfish as a flaw. I think we can both agree that the way this episode was written fit WAY better in seasons 1 to 3 instead of the very last season. Pinkie made mistakes and Twilight made mistakes yes, but I don’t think Pinkie Pie was as uncaring as you paint her.  Pinkie Pie answered questions, albeit somewhat obnoxiously, and was genuine in her concern that Twilight would not win or that Twilight may not even get to play the game at all, when she became disqualified. Re watch the episode clip on youtube and look at Pinkie’s concerned, sad expression when she realizes how her disqualification may effect Twilight and her desires. Where you lose me in your analysis is where you suggest Pinkie did not care whatsoever when she obviously did care and just had a different approach to the game that Twi understandably found annoying because Pinkie was being hyperactive and had never played before. I can understand Pinkie acknowledging her mistakes and you are right, the characters should know each others needs and wants more in the very last season, but Twilights actions and reactions as I said put Twilight more in the wrong in this episode. Pinkie and Twi would be more evenly in the wrong if hypothetically Twilight asked Pinkie not to join the game because it was for professional players and Pinkie disregarded the request and played as a novice for “fun” dismissing Twilight’s wants, but that’s NOT what happened here. Any pony of any skill level, could play, at any time. The rules allow Pinkie to participate fully. Twilight never told Pinkie much at the beginning except that Pinkie needed coaching. Twilight rolled with Pinkie Pie as her partner even when Spike asked her if she could win. Twilight never communicated.

 

Just my 2 cents again. No offense.

Cult leaders deploy similar messages to recruit vulnerable minds that will recommend such manipulations to others. There are also those who were "helped" by Jesus even though the whole ruleset of our grand religions is rather insufficient to put it mildly. Also, I must disregard your story in its entirety as both of us are not familiar with the people in question.

 

Not many a Brony comprehends the unfathomable nature of eldritch deities. This is my greatest F U to those who have put lessons before lore. Do not worry. You shall understand their whispers soon enough

 

Oh boy. The good ol' "They're not written badly. They're just imperfect" routine. You have demonstrated that you understand the difference and you have also proposed that this episode would fare far better in early seasons. Let's call bad writing for what it is.

 

Here's a friendship lesson for you and an applicable one at that. When one friend wants something really bad and you just want to have fun in a way that you always have fun, is it then alright for you to screw with the fun of your friend? You are judging this like it's a dispute between two strangers when it's one between two friends. Also, this has nothing to do with a competition. It's about having fun. Again: Pinkie knew what Twilight wanted and yet she didn't want to adapt. She never once tried to put herself in Twilight's shoes while Twilight had to climb down to her level cause that's the "right" thing to do. After Twilight apologized, Pinkie should have let Twilight participate with Sunburst and pair herself with Cranky who didn't gave a shit about anything in that room and was also a friend of hers. If she did that then the episode would have been redeemed in my eyes but no, she just had to have her way and be the pampered special needs case that she always is when writers need to give a hard time to another Mane member. You asked me how I'd write it? That's how. BOOM, empathy! The winds of magic are strong tonight!

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

21 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Here's a friendship lesson for you and an applicable one at that. When one friend wants something really bad and you just want to have fun in a way that you always have fun, is it then alright for you to screw with the fun of your friend? You are judging this like it's a dispute between two strangers when it's one between two friends. Also, this has nothing to do with a competition. It's about having fun. Again: Pinkie knew what Twilight wanted and yet she didn't want to adapt. She never once tried to put herself in Twilight's shoes while Twilight had to climb down to her level cause that's the "right" thing to do. After Twilight apologized, Pinkie should have let Twilight participate with Sunburst and pair herself with Cranky who didn't gave a shit about anything in that room and was also a friend of hers. If she did that then the episode would have been redeemed in my eyes but no, she just had to have her way and be the pampered special needs case that she always is when writers need to give a hard time to another Mane member. You asked me how I'd write it? That's how. BOOM, empathy! The winds of magic are strong tonight!

Ehh, that's not just between Twilight and Pinkie though. Sunburst didn't want Twilight on his team at that point. Besides, it's questionable that she was hindering herself by playing with Pinkie in the first place. Twilight's "flub" with Tirek & Skorpan is only mildly more arguable than Pinkie's clever answer to the Hearthswarming Carol question. If Twilight hadn't made a big mess about it in the first place, she might've stood a good chance at winning with Pinkie as her teammate. When she realized what she had done, the game wasn't worth it to her anymore. And it's not like Pinkie is the ONLY one who got burned in this. Twilight was playing hardball to a rather obsessive degree, the entire time. She screwed up hardcore. Not just with Pinkie. And she knew it. It was worth it then to just let it go and have some silly fun instead, and let all the stress of the game simply melt away. It's something I've done myself with other people on numerous occasions when things end up getting far more serious than they should have ever been.

Something you have to remember with Pinkie too though, is she probably does have ADHD. Yeah, she is capable of concentrating, but it might just be over very specific things. So I don't think it's that she doesn't care. She just really can't control it and it's not her fault. Even when they were dealing with the Tantabus, Pinkie couldn't keep her focus. Her dream constantly shifting from one thing to another every couple of seconds, I think that says it all.

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

46 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Cult leaders deploy similar messages to recruit vulnerable minds that will recommend such manipulations to others. There are also those who were "helped" by Jesus even though the whole ruleset of our grand religions is rather insufficient to put it mildly. Also, I must disregard your story in its entirety as both of us are not familiar with the people in question.

 

 

 

Not many a Brony comprehends the unfathomable nature of eldritch deities. This is my greatest F U to those who have put lessons before lore. Do not worry. You shall understand their whispers soon enough

 

 

 

Oh boy. The good ol' "They're not written badly. They're just imperfect" routine. You have demonstrated that you understand the difference and you have also proposed that this episode would fare far better in early seasons. Let's call bad writing for what it is.

 

 

 

Here's a friendship lesson for you and an applicable one at that. When one friend wants something really bad and you just want to have fun in a way that you always have fun, is it then alright for you to screw with the fun of your friend? You are judging this like it's a dispute between two strangers when it's one between two friends. Also, this has nothing to do with a competition. It's about having fun. Again: Pinkie knew what Twilight wanted and yet she didn't want to adapt. She never once tried to put herself in Twilight's shoes while Twilight had to climb down to her level cause that's the "right" thing to do. After Twilight apologized, Pinkie should have let Twilight participate with Sunburst and pair herself with Cranky who didn't gave a shit about anything in that room and was also a friend of hers. If she did that then the episode would have been redeemed in my eyes but no, she just had to have her way and be the pampered special needs case that she always is when writers need to give a hard time to another Mane member. You asked me how I'd write it? That's how. BOOM, empathy! The winds of magic are strong tonight!

 

I said the characters were written badly in this one. We both agree on that. But being selfish is a trait a lot of characters have displayed on this show in GOOD episodes so the problem is not the selfishness but the execution of how the writers present the plot. You made it like the ponies being selfish was the main issue in your last comment.  My apologies if I misunderstood. Your idea for an ending is an interesting one! Like I said if we were talking about “Backstage Pass” I would agree about Pinkie and yes she is the one that is often used by writers to piss off other characters which could be an example of using her as a plot device. However Pinkie Pie DID give a crap and never tried to “screw” Twilight. TWILIGHT actively sabotaged Pinkie(and later herself) by tricking Pinkie into breaking the rules. Twilight deserved some karma for that at least. MLP is not a cult. Lighten up!!!

4 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Ehh, that's not just between Twilight and Pinkie though. Sunburst didn't want Twilight on his team at that point. Besides, it's questionable that she was hindering herself by playing with Pinkie in the first place. Twilight's "flub" with Tirek & Skorpan is only mildly more arguable than Pinkie's clever answer to the Hearthswarming Carol question. If Twilight hadn't made a big mess about it in the first place, she might've stood a good chance at winning with Pinkie as her teammate. When she realized what she had done, the game wasn't worth it to her anymore. And it's not like Pinkie is the ONLY one who got burned in this. Twilight was playing hardball to a rather obsessive degree, the entire time. She screwed up hardcore. Not just with Pinkie. And she knew it. It was worth it then to just let it go and have some silly fun instead, and let all the stress of the game simply melt away. It's something I've done myself with other people on numerous occasions when things end up getting far more serious than they should have ever been.

Something you have to remember with Pinkie too though, is she probably does have ADHD. Yeah, she is capable of concentrating, but it might just be over very specific things. So I don't think it's that she doesn't care. She just really can't control it and it's not her fault. Even when they were dealing with the Tantabus, Pinkie couldn't keep her focus. Her dream constantly shifting from one thing to another every couple of seconds, I think that says it all.

Yes! Yes! Yes! EXACTLY! 

[Sonic5421 423]

Well, this was a funny episode regarding Twilight having another of her paranoia moments with wanting to be the Trivia Trot champion for three times in a row. Also, I gotta give credit to Sunburst for helping Twilight to realize how bad a friend she had been to Pinkie Pie and realizing no win was worth ruining a friendship when you try to take the easy way out with using the rules to your advantage.

Overall, I'll give the episode an 8, 8.5 out of 10 as my score.

[Thrond 3,263]

I would have a hard time arguing that this was written by someone who has never seen the show before - so many of the jokes here are just references to earlier episodes that, if anything, it comes off as bad fanfiction. But for the life of me, I will never understand how anyone could think that petty bickering is why anyone watches the show. I don't find all of these weird faces funny, as to my eyes the animators have just gone and made the show uglier for no good reason. So every major character in Ponyville takes trivia this seriously? And why did Sunburst come to this town's trivia contest? Has he ever lived in Ponyville? They're all there because this episode mistakes callbacks and screaming for comedy. I kind of like seeing Twilight get excited about rules, and I kind of like seeing Fluttershy be confident. But once Pinkie and Twilight were teamed up I don't think I laughed once, and in fact I found this incredibly annoying. I didn't expect Twilight getting so frazzled that she started giving wrong answers, but I can't even give the episode credit for that because that just means she gets even more obnoxious. 

And you know what, yes, having the mane six act like this to each other so often does undermine the show's premise. They barely ever seem like good friends anymore, which is why stuff like "Sparkle's Seven" is so refreshing to me. I don't understand why this show can't be like that all the time. 

Also, have some of you actually gone back and watched season 1 lately? It wasn't like this. 

[Jeric 46,850]

4 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Oh boy. The good ol' "They're not written badly. They're just imperfect" routine. You have demonstrated that you understand the difference and you have also proposed that this episode would fare far better in early seasons. Let's call bad writing for what it is.

This is actually an important statement here. I just got around to watching Anohana at the recommendation of another staff member. While the tone of that show is different, it is still cut into small 22 minute episodes (albeit heading toward a final resolution). There are six main characters and each one has significant flaws, yet they are all interesting characters. There isn’t much wasted dialog or animation direction. And as you find out more about the characters decisions that we’re perplexing before made sense without having to add layers of interpretation to explain something away. That’s great writing with actual flaws (that aren’t even relatable to me) and it made for some captivating moments. 

 

Don’t get me wrong, I loved this episode. It wasn’t because of the moral, callbacks, or even something personal that sometimes makes me enjoy a bad episode more than others. I really really loved the concept that much that I was able to nom on the fast food fries and just guiltily enjoy the episode. This was one of those dumb episodes that I just enjoyed way too much in spite of it not being polished. 

 

Your point about Twilight’s fun vs Pinkie’s fun is a damn good one. I’m like Twilight was when I am in certain environments. I’m still having fun in my own way. This is why I haven’t ever entered a Trivia Night at a bar without knowing who my team is going to be. If they wanted to make this moral work then Twilight should have invited Pinkie from the outset. Then her actions would be a bit more unfair because she would know what she was getting into. In this case two characters who wouldn’t gel in a setting like this made it a chore for Sparkle Horse rather than a good time. 

[MangoFoalix 24,944]

That was kind of an interesting episode. I'm unsure about this one though. Though the reactions do make it pretty great.

[Lucky Bolt 35,062]

I LOVED this episode! These simple little slice of life episodes like this are my favorite, I was legitimately laughing during several scenes. 

Twily's reactions and facial expression were hilarious, and the AppleDash moments!! Omg!! TWILIGHT SAID APPLEDASH!! TWILIGHT SAID APPLEDASH!! Eeeee!!! She ships it!! 

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

It was a weird experience watching this episode. It was in between being awkward trying too hard to be funny and just being ok. It was really weird. Almost feels like a weird dream. I don't know what I just watched. Feels like a pretty different show and a completely new perspective of the characters. The rulebook was such a convenient tool to do whatever the writers want at any moment.

ps. I'm sick and tired of Pinkie ruining everything. What happened to "It was under E!"? And the subject of missing fun in this very similar way has been dealt before.

[Rushing cash 836]

8 hours ago, Lucky Bolt said:

the AppleDash moments!! Omg!! TWILIGHT SAID APPLEDASH!!

The best part(s) of the episode (seriously) 

[Goat-kun 2,527]

14 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Ehh, that's not just between Twilight and Pinkie though. Sunburst didn't want Twilight on his team at that point. Besides, it's questionable that she was hindering herself by playing with Pinkie in the first place. Twilight's "flub" with Tirek & Skorpan is only mildly more arguable than Pinkie's clever answer to the Hearthswarming Carol question. If Twilight hadn't made a big mess about it in the first place, she might've stood a good chance at winning with Pinkie as her teammate. When she realized what she had done, the game wasn't worth it to her anymore. And it's not like Pinkie is the ONLY one who got burned in this. Twilight was playing hardball to a rather obsessive degree, the entire time. She screwed up hardcore. Not just with Pinkie. And she knew it. It was worth it then to just let it go and have some silly fun instead, and let all the stress of the game simply melt away. It's something I've done myself with other people on numerous occasions when things end up getting far more serious than they should have ever been.

Something you have to remember with Pinkie too though, is she probably does have ADHD. Yeah, she is capable of concentrating, but it might just be over very specific things. So I don't think it's that she doesn't care. She just really can't control it and it's not her fault. Even when they were dealing with the Tantabus, Pinkie couldn't keep her focus. Her dream constantly shifting from one thing to another every couple of seconds, I think that says it all.

If she's a tryhard, let her play like a tryhard. You're still trying to squeeze out some sort of an optimal play style when it's about having fun. Look at it from a friendship perspective. Twilight and Sunburst got their shit cleared so after the apology it was Pinkie's turn to realize what's up and take one for the team (of friends). Firstly, it would allow Twilight to play the rest of the game like a tryhard she is with someone who is also tryharding for the win. Secondly, "you go girl!" if you know what I mean. And thirdly, Pinkie could play how she wanted with her friend Cranky. Everypony wins! And once again: tryharding is not wrong. People act crazy when playing their favorite sports or games all the time.

 

Yeah, of course she does. Everypony that is threatened by the shit stick magically gets a diagnosis. Scrap together a medical definition or get lost. This is my domain and I will not suffer self-diagnosing or civilian definitions. By the by, do you know which psychiatric diagnosis gets your flow of thoughts screwed in earnest?

[Goat-kun 2,527]

14 hours ago, StitchandMLPlover said:

I said the characters were written badly in this one. We both agree on that. But being selfish is a trait a lot of characters have displayed on this show in GOOD episodes so the problem is not the selfishness but the execution of how the writers present the plot. You made it like the ponies being selfish was the main issue in your last comment.  My apologies if I misunderstood. Your idea for an ending is an interesting one! Like I said if we were talking about “Backstage Pass” I would agree about Pinkie and yes she is the one that is often used by writers to piss off other characters which could be an example of using her as a plot device. However Pinkie Pie DID give a crap and never tried to “screw” Twilight. TWILIGHT actively sabotaged Pinkie(and later herself) by tricking Pinkie into breaking the rules. Twilight deserved some karma for that at least. MLP is not a cult. Lighten up!!!

A cult would imply that the flesh is willing

 

Did she give a crap? About what Twilight wants?

[Goat-kun 2,527]

11 hours ago, Jeric said:

This is actually an important statement here. I just got around to watching Anohana at the recommendation of another staff member. While the tone of that show is different, it is still cut into small 22 minute episodes (albeit heading toward a final resolution). There are six main characters and each one has significant flaws, yet they are all interesting characters. There isn’t much wasted dialog or animation direction. And as you find out more about the characters decisions that we’re perplexing before made sense without having to add layers of interpretation to explain something away. That’s great writing with actual flaws (that aren’t even relatable to me) and it made for some captivating moments. 

 

Don’t get me wrong, I loved this episode. It wasn’t because of the moral, callbacks, or even something personal that sometimes makes me enjoy a bad episode more than others. I really really loved the concept that much that I was able to nom on the fast food fries and just guiltily enjoy the episode. This was one of those dumb episodes that I just enjoyed way too much in spite of it not being polished. 

 

Your point about Twilight’s fun vs Pinkie’s fun is a damn good one. I’m like Twilight was when I am in certain environments. I’m still having fun in my own way. This is why I haven’t ever entered a Trivia Night at a bar without knowing who my team is going to be. If they wanted to make this moral work then Twilight should have invited Pinkie from the outset. Then her actions would be a bit more unfair because she would know what she was getting into. In this case two characters who wouldn’t gel in a setting like this made it a chore for Sparkle Horse rather than a good time. 

Becoming a weeb, are we? I watched Flash Gordon over the weekend. It was complete shit. Still better than The Last Jedi.

 

That would have worked, though we both know that none of the other Mane 6 would ever willingly invite Pinkie anywhere

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

If she's a tryhard, let her play like a tryhard. You're still trying to squeeze out some sort of an optimal play style when it's about having fun. Look at it from a friendship perspective. Twilight and Sunburst got their shit cleared so after the apology it was Pinkie's turn to realize what's up and take one for the team (of friends). Firstly, it would allow Twilight to play the rest of the game like a tryhard she is with someone who is also tryharding for the win. Secondly, "you go girl!" if you know what I mean. And thirdly, Pinkie could play how she wanted with her friend Cranky. Everypony wins! And once again: tryharding is not wrong. People act crazy when playing their favorite sports or games all the time.

 

 

 

Yeah, of course she does. Everypony that is threatened by the shit stick magically gets a diagnosis. Scrap together a medical definition or get lost. This is my domain and I will not suffer self-diagnosing or civilian definitions. By the by, do you know which psychiatric diagnosis gets your flow of thoughts screwed in earnest?

 

Like I said your idea for Twilight getting to play with Sunburst and Pinkie playing with Cranky is an interesting one. I do like when people get to play something at their own skill level or get to be academically challenged by someone evenly matched with them so no problem there. The issue with this situation in the episode, among others, was Twilight was so damn stressed before the game even started that I doubt Twilight was actually having fun. Even in the cold open she was all the way in Crazy Town and most of the other characters who were around and paying attention like Spike and Granny Smith seemed to be able to tell Twilight needed to tone it down. I don't think Pinkie would interpret Twi as having fun either. Twilight started off by using rules to actively sabotage other players and moved on to tricking Pinkie in a bigger act of sabotage while nearly hyperventilating from stress. Sunburst by contrast actually seemed to enjoy himself by his demeanor. Sunburst was “tryharding” as you put it(it was still wrong for him to try to get rid of Twi of course). Twilight was 100% stress. Negative distress instead of more positive eustress. It’s only when she started back at zero with Pinkie did she actually seem to take a breath and have a real smile. I think the Mane 5 would willingly invite Pinkie to anything Pinkie would excel at.

Edited August 19, 2019 by StitchandMLPlover

[Goat-kun 2,527]

5 hours ago, StitchandMLPlover said:

Like I said your idea for Twilight getting to play with Sunburst and Pinkie playing with Cranky is an interesting one. I do like when people get to play something at their own skill level or get to be academically challenged by someone evenly matched with them so no problem there. The issue with this situation in the episode, among others, was Twilight was so damn stressed before the game even started that I doubt Twilight was actually having fun. Even in the cold open she was all the way in Crazy Town and most of the other characters who were around and paying attention like Spike and Granny Smith seemed to be able to tell Twilight needed to tone it down. I don't think Pinkie would interpret Twi as having fun either. Twilight started off by using rules to actively sabotage other players and moved on to tricking Pinkie in a bigger act of sabotage while nearly hyperventilating from stress. Sunburst by contrast actually seemed to enjoy himself by his demeanor. Sunburst was “tryharding” as you put it(it was still wrong for him to try to get rid of Twi of course). Twilight was 100% stress. Negative distress instead of more positive eustress. It’s only when she started back at zero with Pinkie did she actually seem to take a breath and have a real smile. I think the Mane 5 would willingly invite Pinkie to anything Pinkie would excel at.

Getting stressed is something that tryhards do, or should I say getting psyched. They're after the sweet victory after all. You smile when it's over, or if you did something awesome. Though, in this particular case Twilight got titled. She got tilted hard. The show also exaggerates all the behavior, so there's that. Still nothing compared to some random moba games. Twilight got her shit straight when she interacted with Sunburst. I doubt that talking to Pinkie before that would do her any good. Anyhow, my original point still stands: different fun for different people. The show and the Bronies shall not dictate how and with whom one must have fun. This episode goes against my claim. My second point also stands: good friends understand how each of them likes to have fun. Twilight and Pinkie are not shown as good friends no matter the outcome of the episode.

 

 

That's exactly it. They'd only invite Pinkie when it would benefit them which is probably never. Friendship is magic HO!

Edited August 19, 2019 by Goat-kun
Hurling pathetic equines into the void.

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

 

38 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Getting stressed is something that tryhards do, or should I say getting psyched. They're after the sweet victory after all. You smile when it's over, or if you did something awesome. Though, in this particular case Twilight got titled. She got tilted hard. The show also exaggerates all the behavior, so there's that. Still nothing compared to some random moba games. Twilight got her shit straight when she interacted with Sunburst.

Things weren't actually any better with Sunburst though. Then it was just him keeping her out of the game, trying to do it all on his own. Nothing was ever going 'well' for Twilight that whole time.

How about forgetting Pinkie for a moment, bickering over whether or not she was pushing her fun over Twi's, or trying to control Twilight's definition of fun, and instead trusting Spike's judgement? For all intents and purposes, he's the Princess's closest advisor. Spike knows Twilight's breakdowns better than anyone, the episode opens with him knowing that one is coming, and he's trying to prevent it before it starts. That's not a question of his fun vs. hers. If Twilight was truly enjoying it, Spike wouldn't be intervening. How often do you suppose professional competitors have to breathe into paper bags just to keep from passing out due to hyperventilation? That's beyond tryharding. If we're going to still argue that Twilight was enjoying it, then we might as well start debating BDSM.

[Dark Qiviut 22,379]

This episode has A LOTTA great faces.

This one isn’t!

Spoiler

Pinkie sounds excited and eager to team up with a Twilight. Her overly exaggerated face and how suddenly close up the camera got makes her look as crazy as TS, if not more so. This jump scare is less humorous and more nightmare fuel.

Also not funny watching Cranky drool in his sleep. Bleh!