A new warning system

[XUNUSEDXXX 3,459]

Ah, okay. This is all starting to make sense now. And have you guys also looked into the character limit being published on the mobile version? So we don't have any more character limit derps again?

[Dark Qiviut 22,396]

This also pretty much censors the Random Chat thread.

One big difference here is that the Random Chat thread is located at the Forum Lounge. There is no character minimum requirement there; as long as the content you post follows the guidelines, you're pretty much encouraged to be silly there.

 

As for the implementation, it's much better compared to your initial draft. It feels more complete and doesn't try to play games with the system. It still feels a bit rough, but much better than before.

 

Some questions and Devil's Advocate thoughts, though.

 

1. What happens if part of the post, such as a line or (if it's one big post, like ten seven or ten paragraphs) one tiny paragraph/half-paragraph? Will that users get warned for this, and if so, how much?

 

2. I still strongly despise the fixated point decay system. It's too rigid, and it doesn't give users any flexibility for exponentially rewarding users who eventually contribute to the community post-warning such as posting quality posts, donating, writing thoughtful critiques, posting a (well-thought) thread that allows users to contribute, or developing a powerful art trend. For example, if one gets 250 points, given the current state, it takes ten weeks for the points to be reset to zero. This could scare new or inexperienced users away the second they see that total, because it makes them feel hopeless and scared that they won't be able to contribute. There was a lot of criticism, me and my little pwny being two of them, of the rigid decay due to its inflexibility and poor thought-through, so I still recommend to re-review the decay system a little more so it can possibly be more flexible for post-warning quality standards.

[FedoraMemes 582]

I'm just a little confuzzled on backseat moderation.

 

If a newer member makes a thread that can provoke some discussion, but not much, is it ok to comment on it, then leave a little note saying something along the lines of 'Also, I think that maybe next time, something like this would be better suited as a blog post or status update'.

 

Also, about the character limit.

 

I have called up an issue before where if the limit hasn't loaded properly, it let's you post even in it's under 100 characters. What if something like this happens? I mean, for example, a mod might be able to tell straight away that a post in under 100 characters, and issue a warning straight away, but what if they didn't know that it was under 100? Sometimes, you can't tell, because the character counter doesn't count punctuation or spaces, so even if the user had counted up their characters, they might count spaces and punctuation.

 

That was just a bit hypothetical, but anyways, I hope that the system makes it easier to moderate now.

[Jokuc 8,173]

tho i have a habit of being a backseat mod at times

Yeah me too.. I'm probably gonna get some points every now and then for backseat moderation haha. I am not worried about breaking any other rule though.

 

Is posting links or pictures of NSFW through Private Messages fine as long as they don't report it? I'm just trying to make sure I don't break any of the rules.

This entire site is a NSFW-free zone; we don't allow NSFW content anywhere, PMs included. That said however, unless reported to us, we will never go though anyone's personal messages, so the issue of NSFW content in PMs is one of trust more than anything else. All we can do is ask that you respect the principles of the site, and keep NSFW content away from the Forums wherever possible.

Oh dayum. I actually thought this rule only applied in the actual forums

we will never go though anyone's personal messages, so the issue of NSFW content in PMs is one of trust more than anything else.

It's good to hear you won't go through any private messages, because Jokuc is not to trust if he not promises something..

I mean.. All my PMs are ...totally nsfw-free.....

Edited September 11, 2012 by Mr. Nibblers

[Solar Wind 595]

Soo... Im not gonna be able to upload my Zoop x Swoop image am I? ... *Sigh* Oh well I still have Deviant art right! Lol JK but now im gonna be super duper SERIAL!!! If someone posted a pic of two OCs lightly kissing would mods consider that borderline NSFW??

Also what about NSFW links in PMs? Hmmm....

[Nah 3,182]

Hmm, nice additions to continue on making this a welcoming forum, however, what about bullying, insulting, or intimidating other members, or does that fall under abusive behavior?

[cuteycindyhoney 13,307]

Wow! My three warning points finally went away! I've had them for months now! I had two of them for about a year. As for the post character limit, that can be really annoying. In a thread dedicated to posting, say, your favorite villain song from an animated movie, you can't just say "I like this song" and post a link. You have to write up a complete statement as to WHY you like it. How about a button selection for whoever starts the thread. If it's a videocentric thread, click it and it cancels the character limit.

[Evilshy 5,090]

That's the beauty of the new system: the inconsistencies in handing out warnings, verbal or otherwise, will be kept at a minimum if this pans out well. Before, it was tricky to establish what was considered "NSFW" since really, anything with a bit of "sauce" to it could be considered inappropriate. Granted, there will still probably be a teeny bit of discrepancy between moderators because, I'm not going to lie - different mods have different standpoints (no matter how insignificant) which create the aforementioned inconsistency, but the idea here is so that when moderators give out warning points, it'll be done much more consistently now that there's a refined guideline.

 

Adding point values to rule breaking doesn't change the way different people interpret the rules. Clearly defined punishments need clearly defined rules. Until we have a big list of "this is what's okay, this is what's not" that isn't full of vague descriptions, THEN we won't have as much inconsistency.

Obviously, admins would still need the ability to operate outside the Big Book 'o Rules so they could deal with special cases, but moderators should have to stick to only punishing posts that completely, 100% break a rule.

Of course, moderating can never be completely consistent or unbiased, but we can get close.

[Pinkazoid 3,493]

Oh god, so many rules with stricter warning points, with so many mods to make sure they're being followed....

 

*tries to hide fear*

Maybe they can't smell fear...

[Twiliscael 3,960]

I'm still allowed to toss in the occasional fairly common cuss word in their right? I do it without thinking sometimes and I truly believe that using the occasional vulgar word can really get a point across.

[Zoop 8,384]

Ah, okay. This is all starting to make sense now. And have you guys also looked into the character limit being published on the mobile version? So we don't have any more character limit derps again?

 

The minimum character plugin is a work in progress. Scoots is doing his best to keep up with bugs and such; I feel it is worth pointing out though, that we're only interested in punishing people that are blatantly dodging the minimum; people who unwittingly make posts below the minimum due to errors or bugs in our software will not be punished.

 

1. What happens if part of the post, such as a line or (if it's one big post, like ten seven or ten paragraphs) one tiny paragraph/half-paragraph? Will that users get warned for this, and if so, how much?

 

Not really sure what you're asking

 

2. I still strongly despise the fixated point decay system.

 

The present initial implementation is not necessarily the final implementation; we're going to be monitoring things closely during these first few days to get a feel as to what sort of things need to be tweaked.

 

If someone posted a pic of two OCs lightly kissing would mods consider that borderline NSFW??

 

If it was okay before, it's okay now. WE ARE NOT GOING TO PUNISH PEOPLE FOR POSTING ANYTHING THAT WOULD HAVE PREVIOUSLY BEEN ACCEPTED WITHOUT DELETION.

 

Also what about NSFW links in PMs? Hmmm....

 

This entire site is a NSFW-free zone; we don't allow NSFW content anywhere, PMs included. That said however, unless reported to us, we will never go though anyone's personal messages, so the issue of NSFW content in PMs is one of trust more than anything else. All we can do is ask that you respect the principles of the site, and keep NSFW content away from the Forums wherever possible.

If a newer member makes a thread that can provoke some discussion, but not much, is it ok to comment on it, then leave a little note saying something along the lines of 'Also, I think that maybe next time, something like this would be better suited as a blog post or status update'.

 

In the scenario you've presented I wouldn't say that anything would need to be done. If your post is primarily on-topic, contributes to the discussion, is helpful in tone rather than being a rude call-out, and has only a tiny portion dedicated to providing said advice, you can probably skate by. It's fairly situational though - personally, I'd do without the extra snippet and let the moderators give him the same helpful advice, though.

 

To quote Swoop,

If you could say the exact same thing to a moderator privately in a report, then don't go and post it publicly in a thread.

 

Hmm, nice additions to continue on making this a welcoming forum, however, what about bullying, insulting, or intimidating other members, or does that fall under abusive behavior?

Bullying, insulting, and/or intimidating other users is abusive behavior by definition.

 

Until we have a big list of "this is what's okay, this is what's not" that isn't full of vague descriptions, THEN we won't have as much inconsistency.

Having a massive "MLP Forums Approved Content Bible" really won't do anyone any good, I think - nobody will read it, or care about it... and honestly, I won't lie - we'll probably have a few stumbling points as we adjust to this new system - it's probably inevitable, but with that said...

 

We openly invite and encourage users to notify us if they feel that a moderator has overstepped their bounds, or has incorrectly interpreted a rule or situation.

 

If we get something wrong, we will fix it. Warning points can be rolled back; they can be removed, reduced, or otherwise modified depending on the situation at hand. Just as members make mistakes, moderators - and administrators - may sometimes do the same.

 

Oh god, so many rules with stricter warning points, with so many mods to make sure they're being followed

 

So many mods? The team has shrank considerably in the last month or so.

 

I'm still allowed to toss in the occasional fairly common cuss word in their right? I do it without thinking sometimes and I truly believe that using the occasional vulgar word can really get a point across.

I don't think anyone will ban you for that.

[Twiliscael 3,960]

I don't think anyone will ban you for that.

Oki doki, thanks for the clarification. I need to toss in an occasional curse word of rage or some other shit (like that!) to get my points across, and further the belief that all teenagers curse too much and disrespect authority.

[Pinkazoid 3,493]

*Sees two Notifications from Zoop*

 

OH GAWD THEY GOT ME

 

 

So many mods? The team has shrank considerably in the last month or so.

 

I didn't see the shrinking of the mods...hmm.. I'm constantly missing out the big stuff that goes 'round the forums nowadays o3o

 

I mean.. All my PMs are ...totally nsfw-free.....

 

...and specially those PM's between you and me. Can't get any cleaner than any of those'

 

....but seriously mods..... stay out of my inbox o3o

[Parties like Pinkie 385]

There is actually one user who had several million points. It's a long story.

 

If there wasn't the whole "getting banned after 1,000" deal, I would so totally say challenge accepted to that number. xD

 

But there is, so I'm not. :\

[Bohtty 1,775]

I'm totally going to get banned for NSFW text lol.

 

I'm still not sure. Are you guys basing NSFW/Borderline NSFW warnings on intention, mood of the post or the literal text... or all of them?

 

For example, recently I posted something on an advice thread that had a small snippet of text that would be NSFW in the litteral text (if it were by itself), but in the context it was basically satire. Additionally it was crossed out to further imply that it was a joke.

 

"█" is going to become my new favorite character.

[Crystal Sparkle 344]

I have very mixed feelings about this new system:

 

On one hand, I happy that we can finally get some balance back in the forums, and it can get back the the way it used to be. (or at least it'll be an attempt to.)

 

On another hand, I'm going to hate being extremely scared of every post I make, knowing that the kinds of post I usually make are worth the highest points...however, I never make porn-like text post, but they are a little suggestive. And sadly, that's what I'm pretty much known for around here, and I'll never reach my goal of being a well-known user on here! I could make silly little quips and try to go for making quality posts or what not, but they are usually under the character limit, and when I add more characters, (not bypassing) They usually take away from the quality of whatever statement I said.

 

Again, it's very simple method that no one should be confused on, I'm just going to hate walking on eggshells around here, and that's going to prevent me from my goal, which is something I really really want!

[Shift 4,272]

 

Yup, this thread sure is glorious. We won't have any post-count minimum problems now. At least more decreased post-count minimum ones.

[TailsIsNotAlone 3,695]

I walk on eggshells everywhere I go, so I'm used to it. Very well, Zoop. As a new member I shall follow these rules to the utmost and leave my many, many volumes of graphic pony romance fan fiction at home. (Well, as soon as I write them.)

 

I don't see why anyone would post sexual images, though. We watch the show for the plot, remember?

[silvadel 1,393]

One thing I kind of disagree with is the fixed number of points per week being removed. In essence it means somepony who posts 5 times per week is pretty much immune to the occasional unintended penalty, but somepony who posts 75 times per week is much more likely to accumulate over 25 points per week even if they are being much more careful than the person who posts 5 times.

 

In essence what I am saying is that this might end up making people post fewer posts.

 

That said though I think some bonus points should be removed for people who post a lot of good posts that do not break the rules per week... IE instead of a flat 25 points maybe...

 

25 points if you post 20 or fewer times during a week.

30 if you post 21-30 times

35 if you post 31-40 times

40 if you post 41-50 times

45 if you post 51-75 times

50 if you post over 75 times.

 

The other possibility is for the enhanced points to go by brohoofs -- IE say 1 extra point removed per brohoof over 10 during a week to a maximum of 30 extra points.

 

It isnt tremendously different but even a small change here could be a good thing.

Edited September 23, 2012 by silvadel

[Starshine 16,333]

In essence it means somepony who posts 5 times per week is pretty much immune to the occasional unintended penalty, but somepony who posts 75 times per week is much more likely to accumulate over 25 points per week even if they are being much more careful than the person who posts 5 times.

What

 

It doesn't matter how many times you posts in the forum, the only thing that matters is whether you obey the rules or not. The warning points are not given randomly whenever you post something, it's not a random loot. It is very possible and easy to make 75 posts a week without getting any warning points, while a mere five posts can still net a poster 250 warning points if s/he act like a total jerk.

 

25 points if you post 20 or fewer times during a week.

30 if you post 21-30 times

35 if you post 31-40 times

40 if you post 41-50 times

45 if you post 51-75 times

50 if you post over 75 times.

 

And this, this mechanic will only invite spam, because the more you posts in the forum, the more impervious you are to the warnings points

 

Let's just say someone caught advertising, given 100 points. All s/he have to do is to rack as many post counts as s/he could, and the warning points will disappear in two weeks instead of the normal four

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

The board rules limit the amount of vulgarity in posts, and bans them from thread titles and tags. I've searched and found no mention of such thing regarding profiles, and Viscra's description is full of swear words.

Yet, after several weeks of not doing anything about my custom member title, I'm suddenly given a warning for "vulgarity in my profile".

 

Question: Is the staff making up rules as they go?

[Twilight Sparkle ✨ 8,526]

The board rules limit the amount of vulgarity in posts, and bans them from thread titles and tags. I've searched and found no mention of such thing regarding profiles, and Viscra's description is full of swear words.

Yet, after several weeks of not doing anything about my custom member title, I'm suddenly given a warning for "vulgarity in my profile".

 

Question: Is the staff making up rules as they go?

 

Open a support ticket about this in the Moderation Disputes department, please. I can assure you that no one is making any rules up, and that there has only been a misunderstanding; but we do not discuss individual cases publicly.

[Zoop 8,384]

To add on to Feld0's comment, if you feel that we've missed anything that is overly vulgar, please feel free to report it so that we can have it sorted out.

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

Open a support ticket about this in the Moderation Disputes department, please. I can assure you that no one is making any rules up, and that there has only been a misunderstanding; but we do not discuss individual cases publicly.

Can't find it, maybe I'm not looking hard enough?

Also, I'm not trying to raise discussion on my personal case. I'm calling for a clarification of the cussing rule, if it really applies to profiles or member titles...

[Zoop 8,384]

Can't find it, maybe I'm not looking hard enough?

Also, I'm not trying to raise discussion on my personal case. I'm calling for a clarification of the cussing rule, if it really applies to profiles or member titles...

 

The rule applies everywhere within the community:

 

Keep the foul language down. Swearing is not forbidden on MLP Forums, but we kindly ask that you keep it to a minimum. Not only is swearing out of place in the My Little Pony universe, but some fans who visit this site may be much closer to the target age than you and will not enjoy seeing the F-Bomb drop on their screen.

 

This particular portion, meanwhile...

 

Swearing is strictly prohibited in topic titles and tags.

...isn't meant to imply that the limitations on vulgarity are limited to titles and tags, rather it just lists out two areas in which vulgar language is never allowed.