Why do people hate good guys?

[heavens-champion 1,893]

This is a response to the 'why would anyone want to be the villain" topic. I might be making assumptions, but seriously. You do realize that villains go to jail.

[LeafFerret 3,382]

Because at the end of the day, the good guys always win and that gets sort of tiring and it sends the wrong message to people. This is particularly the case in the EG movies.

[Catpone Cerberus 23,426]

Because in every single movie and story you know that the good guys will win, it gets boring when you know the ending when before it starts. And another reason is that many times the character of the good guy is either a cliché or otherwise boring, while villains have a personality and sometimes even a good point.

Edited November 18, 2017 by The Cerberus

[Nerdy Luigi 2,064]

Yet another post where I have no idea what you're even talking about...

[Yakamaru 3,075]

The fuck even is this thread?

People like people who are assertive and have a strong character, not to mention ambitions. Good guys are just "We're good, lets fight for goodness sake!".

Villains have reasons for being villains. Everything from having been treated unjustly and like utter crap for years to abuse and torture. Some just want to see the world burn because they've seen the worst humanity have to offer.

Being a good guy is boring as hell, which is why the bad boy type is so attractive, and one of the reasons people like the idea of being one or being near one.

[Hierok 11,829]

Because the good guys always win. A villain which struggles or has motive is far more entertaining and interesting.

[Jeric 46,835]

The good guys most certainly don't always win and some wins also come at great sacrifice. This isn't a binary approach either. I like well developed characters, their alignment isn't what makes me like a character or dislike them. 

Also watch and read some Star Wars ... the bad guys constantly kick the good guys asses for decades at a time, they lose, and come back stronger. Themes of the perpetual struggle between light and dark are huge in that universe. 

And that is just one series. Fiction is full of stories where evil or the villain wins or the hero loses. 

[Will Guide 21,325]

Just now, Obi-Quiet said:

The good guys most certainly don't always win and some wins also come at great sacrifice. This isn't a binary approach either. I like well developed characters, their alignment isn't what makes me like a character or dislike them. 

Also watch and read some Star Wars ... the bad guys constantly kick the good guys asses for decades at a time, they lose, and come back stronger. Themes of the perpetual struggle between light and dark are huge in that universe. 

And that is just one series. Fiction is full of stories where evil or the villain wins. 

Wow! You summed up what I was going to say much better! Thanks!

[Denim&Venöm 16,515]

As has been said already. Good guys are bland cliches. Doing the right thing for goodness sake, and not due to a morale code, a struggle against an unjust foe, or because of who they are as a person. But bad guys have evolved where good guys haven't. They have reasons for turning against the world, motivations for their wicked ways. Heck, they may not even be the bad guys if the proper context is added. Many a 'bad guy' think they're the heroes of their own story. 

That and things like goodness and purity have been given connotations to things like behaving, doing what your told, playing it safe, follow the rules, essentially being a conformist. Where being a villain offers freedom, a chance to be unique, to make your own path and discover new things about the world. 

That and villains just look more appealing.  

[Catpone Cerberus 23,426]

24 minutes ago, Obi-Quiet said:

The good guys most certainly don't always win and some wins also come at great sacrifice.

24 minutes ago, Obi-Quiet said:

the bad guys constantly kick the good guys asses for decades at a time, they lose, and come back stronger.

 

Sure there's losses along the stories, but like you said and come back stronger. There will be scarifies yes, there will be lost battles yes, but in all stories I have seen, good guys will win in the end, not yet have I seen a story where villain gets a perfect win, where villain destroys the good guys for good. 

[Redeye 399]

1 hour ago, Hierok said:

Because the good guys always win. A villain which struggles or has motive is far more entertaining and interesting.

"Good guys always win"

Say that to the Red Wedding from Game of Thrones.

I honestly want to see more stories where the heroes fail miserably. The closest we can get to this in stories aimed for younger audiences is with bittersweet endings involving sacrifices or whatever.

[Jeric 46,835]

2 hours ago, The Cerberus said:

Sure there's losses along the stories, but like you said and come back stronger. There will be scarifies yes, there will be lost battles yes, but in all stories I have seen, good guys will win in the end, not yet have I seen a story where villain gets a perfect win, where villain destroys the good guys for good. 

NY point of contention was (as usual) the absolutism behind the modifier always. 

... 

Also come back stronger was connected to the principle subject ... the bad guys. 

Anyway I think I'll pop in here over the course of the year and pop in an example in fiction where the bad guy wins in the end. 

Aaron Stampler

[Catpone Cerberus 23,426]

19 minutes ago, Obi-Quiet said:

NY point of contention was (as usual) the absolutism behind the modifier always.

19 minutes ago, Obi-Quiet said:

Anyway I think I'll pop in here over the course of the year and pop in an example in fiction where the bad guy wins in the end. 

Aaron Stampler

So, always may not the be right word to use (though where I come from, saying always can mean 99% of the time), but the point still stands, they do win most of the time, so it still ruins enjoyment from them for some people, because one knows they'll most likely win in the end.

 

-edit-

Quote

(though where I come from, saying always can mean 99% of the time)

what I mean with that, is that most people understand that when you say "this always happens", you don't mean that it can never not-happen, it's just that it happens most of the times.

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by The Cerberus

[Mirage 24,136]

Perhaps a better question is - what do you want out of a story? When I sit down with my wife to write plots, we don't even use the term 'good guys', instead we us 'heroes'.

Without getting long winded, some things to consider:

Good - that which aids to a proper end; that which is fulfilled in its intended purpose; justice, truth.

Bad - corrupt, misguided, deceit, injustice; doesn't allow proper fulfillment.

Therefore, properly understood, if a villain ultimately wins, then the story is never fulfilled... (it doesn't even feel like the end).

[Snow Frostflame 3,567]

There is really no good guy or bad guy... its just a matter of perspective. The more you support an individual or faction then the more you begin to see the opposition as the villains. 

[Mirage 24,136]

1 hour ago, Snowflake Frostflame said:

There is really no good guy or bad guy... its just a matter of perspective. The more you support an individual or faction then the more you begin to see the opposition as the villains. 

Very good point. Which is why the real skill in story telling is not setting up who is good or who is bad, but setting up who to root for.

[Jeric 46,835]

1 hour ago, Snowflake Frostflame said:

There is really no good guy or bad guy... its just a matter of perspective. The more you support an individual or faction then the more you begin to see the opposition as the villains. 

This is correct ... " .... from a certain point of view."

[Mirage 24,136]

22 minutes ago, Obi-Quiet said:

This is correct ...

From a certain point of view...

[gamecubeguy214 2,511]

Idk the motives of the characters themselves but gotta add a villain to make conflict in the story for free xd

[heavens-champion 1,893]

7 hours ago, Denim&Venom said:

As has been said already. Good guys are bland cliches. Doing the right thing for goodness sake, and not due to a morale code, a struggle against an unjust foe, or because of who they are as a person. But bad guys have evolved where good guys haven't. They have reasons for turning against the world, motivations for their wicked ways. Heck, they may not even be the bad guys if the proper context is added. Many a 'bad guy' think they're the heroes of their own story. 

That and things like goodness and purity have been given connotations to things like behaving, doing what your told, playing it safe, follow the rules, essentially being a conformist. Where being a villain offers freedom, a chance to be unique, to make your own path and discover new things about the world. 

That and villains just look more appealing.  

Villains go to jail. And besides, there are heroes who follow their own rules.

7 hours ago, Hierok said:

Because the good guys always win. A villain which struggles or has motive is far more entertaining and interesting.

You haven't watched Samurai Jack, Season 5, have you?

10 hours ago, Nerdy Luigi said:

Yet another post where I have no idea what you're even talking about...

Everyone hates the good guys because they think they're 'bland', for some reason.

Edited November 18, 2017 by heavens-champion

[Hierok 11,829]

4 minutes ago, heavens-champion said:

You haven't watched Samurai Jack, Season 5, have you?

Never even heard of the show. Why?

[heavens-champion 1,893]

Just now, Hierok said:

Never even heard of the show. Why?

Because Jack has had to constantly struggle to get back to his time and defeat Aku, because the future he's stuck in is a horrific, dystopian nightmare where Aku's evil is law. In the continuation of the show, all of the time portals are destroyed, and Jack has been driven to the point where he contemplates suicide (well, his conscious is telling him to commit suicide). Even worse, he's lost his sword at the beginning. Now you can't tell me good guys don't struggle.

[Mirage 24,136]

6 minutes ago, Hierok said:

Never even heard of the show. Why?

You're missing out my friend! 

 

[Denim&Venöm 16,515]

1 hour ago, heavens-champion said:

Villains go to jail. And besides, there are heroes who follow their own rules.

Not always. And yes there are, but I'm talking about in general. 

[Steve Piranha 28,782]

16 hours ago, heavens-champion said:

This is a response to the 'why would anyone want to be the villain" topic. I might be making assumptions, but seriously. You do realize that villains go to jail.

Apart from the argument that they always win, they tend to overuse a select few sets of archetypes: naive, overidealist, over positive, dumb, etc, etc, etc. Great to appeal to children, but as an adult you see the point of well developed villains at times