S07:E08 - Hard to Say Anything

[Envy 6,000]

Well... Big Mac was a complete and total creep in this episode. Attempting to kiss Sugar Belle while she was sleeping is soooo creepy. What in the world. She should have shut him out forever after that. Poor Sugar Belle.

Of course, the signs were there that she really actually liked Big Mac from the beginning, even during the song... But I just don't much care for how this episode was presented.

[Music Chart Fan 818]

2 hours ago, Truffles said:

Agreed, I was expecting the worst from what comments I could glean for this episode, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be. It really only lost itself a bit with the outlandish ways the two stallions were competing for Sugar Belle, (which I imagine was the point) but everything else was pretty heartwarming.

I'm a bit surprised at the level of criticism in this topic for this episode, when I might describe the episode as middling - not great, and relying overmuch on cliches, but not really inducing vitriol or indignation.

It reminds me a bit of the episode "Applejack's Day Off" from Season 6. That's another episode that I would consider middling, but in my compilation of "votes" for best/favorite and worst/least favorites episodes of Season 6, that episode got the most "votes" for being one of the worst/least favorite of the season.

[Jeric 46,835]

1 hour ago, Envy said:

Well... Big Mac was a complete and total creep in this episode. Attempting to kiss Sugar Belle while she was sleeping is soooo creepy. What in the world. She should have shut him out forever after that. Poor Sugar Belle.

Of course, the signs were there that she really actually liked Big Mac from the beginning, even during the song... But I just don't much care for how this episode was presented.

That is one of the five sins this episode had. It turned the CMC and Big Mac into idiots for the sake of a plot when it didn't have to. It deployed a lazy writing technique by asking the audience to root against a character or dislike them, and at the end insert a line to make him sympathetic. It failed to capitalize on a built in character connection that would have opened up better ask-the-girl/boy stories. It relied to heavily on pop culture as character instead of actually having shades of that character. 

What pissed me off about this episode is that there were DOZENS of much better ways to approach this within the confines of the shoes limitations and they would all have been freaking easy to write. The only thing that saves this from worst episode in the series is that two others did the EXACT same thing. 

Good concept. Good outcome for two characters. Shit story, dialog, setup, characterization. 

 

2 hours ago, ChB said:

Well, there goes my favorite ship. That said, I am glad that Big Mac now has a significant other.

Love the Justin Bieber reference. 

Big Mac's song kind of reminds me of this fan song:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Ponyphonic is a Good Tier Brony musician. You slight that artist by comparing him to the song this episode gave us. Applejack sounds nothing like Bic Mac's half of the song, it isn't even composed similarly. The only similarities is that they are both connected to an Apple Family member, and they are both part of the Country proto genre. 

Applejack is on my phone on a Best Of playlist with three digits being listed to. It was so much better. 

[ChB 18,532]

@Jeric I don't mean to compare Ponyphonic's talent with Big Mac's incompetence in the latter half of the song. I just liked how Big Mac sung in the first half, and the romantic tone of Ponyphonic's song was the first thing that came to my mind when I first heard it (at least while it was still good). 

[Music Chart Fan 818]

Overall, this episode seems like a standard formulaic cartoon - nothing more, nothing less. It's a bit contrived that Big Mac would just go along with the schemes of the middle-school-aged CMC, and that they're all seriously taking courtship advice from a book of fairy tales. Feather Bangs only seems to show up as a convenient (and cliche) plot device. And the song sequence (by design, it seems) rather overstays its welcome. But then, all these things seem par for the course for a kind of formulaic episode like this, so while I don't find them particularly entertaining, I'm not all that miffed about them, either. There are a few positives about the episode, though. Big Mac and Sugar Belle have several nice cutesy moments, it's good that the CMC took the blame and apologized, and the lesson about doing things that are special for the ones you love is fine enough, even if it perhaps worked out a little too easily for Big Mac in the episode.

I don't think I have any other overall points to make about the episode, so I'll go straight to the miscellaneous observations:

Big Mac apparently doesn't detect a thing as the CMC pile into the cart he's pulling, even as they cause the cart to bounce noticeably several times in the process.

Does Sweetie Belle just always carry that book of fairy tales around? The book isn't seen or mentioned until we see the CMC already in the cart.

Sugar Belle says that she gets to "bake all kinds of delicious treats" with Big Mac's apple deliveries, and lists caramel apples as one of the examples. But I wouldn't say there's much baking involved in making caramel apples, unless you count heating up the caramel as "baking".

When the CMC first show themselves to Big Mac in Starlight's old village, he apparently has no question about (or objection to) why they're there or how they got there.

If Sugar Belle was watching, it would seem pretty obvious that Big Mac was the one who stopped Scootaloo the robber, while Feather Bangs only picked up her bags after Scootaloo was already stopped.

Did Sugar Belle intend to just sleep out in public on a hammock like that? Wouldn't she have a more private living space to sleep in?

After Scootaloo announces that "the cupcake has landed!", she curls herself into a ball and rolls away from the door like she's pretending to be Sonic the Hedgehog or something.

After Sugar Belle sees that Big Mac makes a bigger display case for her baked goods, she smittenly says "You remembered!". Did she expect Big Mac to remember that particular bit of small talk she was making with him earlier? Her remark seems more appropriate for remembering an anniversary or birthday or something.

Finally, Sugar Belle says that, with the bigger display case, she can now make other things that she's been "dying to try baking". But could she have made those things before? She may not have been able to make and display everything at the same time, but I might think that she could work new recipes into the rotation. Was it too much of a risk for her to try baking new things that she's not sure her customers would buy, so she's had to stick with making the surefire sellers up to this point?

[Darthy Hooves 106]

On 5/13/2017 at 1:00 PM, Jeric said:

Creepy and they made Big Mac an idiot to follow the CMC's advice and even pull that stunt. 

Big Mac must be pretty immature to follow love advice from kids, aka, the CMCs!!

[Justin_Case001 4,857]

 

This was easily the stupidest episode in the entire series.  Pay attention to my word choice: I said stupidest, not worst.  Contrary to my meme pic, this isn't the worst episode in the series, but it is the stupidest.  There's a big difference.  Worst is something that damages the lore of the show, or sends a dangerous message to viewers.  This episode wasn't harmful, it was just stupid.

Just....wow.  Omg.  Fluttershy Leans In was top ten hall of fame, imo, and now this?  What happened?!  It was like someone ate some FIM episodes, got really bad indigestion, vomited them back up, and stuck that on the screen.  I even thought the premise had great potential, and then....just....what....the hell?  I could go on at length and write a very intelligent, well thought out critical analysis of why it was so bad, but I think it would be more effective to just leave it at:

 

But, you know, almost every show has some episodes that make you ask, "What the f*ck were they thinking?"  This is like Spirit Folk in Star Trek Voyager.  I loved Voyager, but Spirit Folk was an abysmal piece of garbage.  I mean, how could they pass that off as Star Trek?  This episode was FIM's Spirit Folk.

The one and only upside is that it's really fun to review bad episodes.  Kinda like AVGN, actually.... 

[takai 1,060]

Bit of a jarring episode to say the least. I did enjoy the poking fun at classic fairy tale/Disney tropes. I think it taught an important lesson that life isn't a fantasy, and you should consider another's feelings and do something genuine.

I really didn't have much of a problem with Feather Bangs because he was nothing more than comic relief.

Welp, Big Mac finally found himself a girl after all this time. It's good character development at least. Other than that, this wasn't the best episode. I found myself struggling to watch the screen at times. But cringe is always a component when the CMC's are involved. We've had three episodes with them in it so far, I do believe that's plenty for now.

 I do have to say though, damn was Sugar Belle looking good. I also love her voice, it's incredibly attractive.

I think people are taking this episode a bit too seriously, it just wasn't written very well.

Edited May 28, 2017 by takai

[Zachary 5,517]

I don't like that Episode

I Really like the SugarMac but not as much as Cheerimac And I really don't like Featherbangs and That song sucks.

I'll give it a 4/10, New Least Favorite Episode coming through

[ggg-2 3,550]

Hard to Say Anything is an apt title, in that it's hard to say anything NICE about it. I've said many times that Big Mac has a lot of depth to his character, especially after Brotherhooves Social. The writers have stated many times that Big Mac is incredibly intelligent. Hard to Say Anything is an absolute INSULT to that intelligence.

[Truffles 2,033]

On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 8:26 PM, Lambdadelta said:

I give it an 5/10, yeah, it's my guilty pleasure of this season, this is some few case that i enjoy an episode even i knew it was bad from a mile away.

You hit the nail on the head. I guess this is my first guilty pleasure episode of not only the season but of the series. I can't really see myself spending a lot of time defending it, but all the same I didn't particularly dislike it. A lot of the dialogue was funny, the callbacks were cool (though indeed it seems like the writer only used "HaHD" as a reference) and even the weird musical number grew on me after a second viewing. In fact Feather Bangs part was actually really good in terms of musical quality and vocals, leaving the lyrics aside. (Now I want Garble to get a solo after hearing Vincent Tong sing. XD )

Thought I guess I wouldn't say "pleasure" is quite the correct word to describe watching the episode, since it's still somewhere between "liked" and "meh" for me. I'm still deciding how to vote in the poll.

 

On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 8:54 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

This is the CMCs's worst characterization since The Show Stoppers.

So many episodes I like that I find are hated by others. o_o;

After I first saw Show Stoppers, I was singing their talent show number to myself for weeks. Of course, I saw it during a binge catch-up of S1 and S2, and it might have been the first CMC episode I ever saw, so there wasn't anything for me to dispute about how their characters were represented.

 

On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 11:37 PM, Jeric said:

After two viewings, I unfortunately have to make this episode join the Owl's Well that Ends Well as a 1 on the scale we use here. 

At some point I'll have to go back to the S1 section and see what you wrote about that episode that would warrant a 1 rating. I didn't like Twilight's thoughtlessness towards a family member, nor the Spikeabuse, but it did give us a great deal of insight into some of his character's inner demons and why he's works so hard for her. Plus it was the first time Spike met another dragon, which was pretty interesting even if it didn't go so well.

 

On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 7:57 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

Big Mac's big kissyface is a pure grossout shot. The audience is supposed to laugh at how big, long, and plump Big Mac's forced kissy face looks. What makes it even more disgusting is the closeup of his lips and how Sugar Belle looked at from the corner of her sleepy eye. Seeing swollen, close-up lips protruding from straight on is disgusting, not funny.

I didn't get the impression it was supposed to be funny - I thought it was just as you say: A gross-out shot. One that is supposed to make the audience facepalm over Big Mac's terrible decision to follow along with the CMC's advice. Sugar Belle reacted appropriately to both of their advances and eventually put them in their respective places, so I don't see audiences trying to emulate their behavior.

I'm less inclined to think this was OOC for Big Mac as it was OOC for the CMC, both points I'm aware you and @Jeric have brought up. This being Big Mac's first crush that he actually was actively pursuing (vs. Marble where he didn't seem to follow up with after he left) I could see an older, asocial sibling like him looking to the younger, outgoing sibling for romantic advice, especially if she's holding more responsibilities than when she was younger. Granted, using a fairy tale book as a reference is quite a stretch, so that could have been better. But loner Big Mac being relatively clueless about what to do when it comes to love seems at least somewhat plausible.

I guess what I'm saying is it falls just inside the fence for me in the realm of believability, or at least inside enough that it didn't completely scuttle the episode.

 

5 minutes ago, ggg-2 said:

I've said many times that Big Mac has a lot of depth to his character, especially after Brotherhooves Social. The writers have stated many times that Big Mac is incredibly intelligent. Hard to Say Anything is an absolute INSULT to that intelligence.

Just because he's intelligent in many ways doesn't mean he's knows his way around love. If Mac had shown any inclination as to how to properly woo a mare in past episodes, I'd agree with this being OOC for him. But the only time we saw that was in HaHD, and that was when he was under the influence of the love poison. Before that, he was as awkward with Cheerilee as he was with Sugar Belle and Marble.

Add to that how totally lovesick he was over Sugar Belle (to the point of not even noticing the CMC in the cart) I can see how his common sense might have been impaired.

In short, he might have been thinking with his wrong head. <_<

It's realty more how the CMC were acting like their S1 counterparts that was the issue here. Though they just may all be hopeless romantics and it created a blind spot for their better judgement as well, plus they may have felt getting Mac hooked up with somepony special was an incomplete CMC quest sore spot that needed rectification.

 

20 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

It reminds me a bit of the episode "Applejack's Day Off" from Season 6. That's another episode that I would consider middling, but in my compilation of "votes" for best/favorite and worst/least favorites episodes of Season 6, that episode got the most "votes" for being one of the worst/least favorite of the season.

I liked "AJDO" better than you did, but it was mostly because of the engineering AJ busied herself with during the spa scene. "Cart Before the Ponies" was worst for me of S6, all because of the AJ, RD, and Rares being so thoughtless towards their sisters/buddy.

It's interesting - with the trope used in this episode between BM and Feather Bangs and all the OOC moments others have commented on, you'd think I'd like this episode a lot less. I guess the OOC didn't seem as OOC to me as others, and I guess that trope is not one to trigger me, like some other tropes do. (Like having to keep a character asleep to avoid some sort of punishment, or the life-debt tropes. =/ )

I will say I was surprised they redeemed Feather Bangs in the end. They could have had the CMC congratulate themselves on their success and simply fade to the credits. I don't know how I feel about this. I guess would have been OK leaving Feather as a villain, but maybe it's more interesting that he got some depth at the end, even if it seemed tacked on?

[Music Chart Fan 818]

40 minutes ago, Truffles said:

I liked "AJDO" better than you did, but it was mostly because of the engineering AJ busied herself with during the spa scene. "Cart Before the Ponies" was worst for me of S6, all because of the AJ, RD, and Rares being so thoughtless towards their sisters/buddy.

This makes me think of a conundrum I've had about the criteria that I, and others, would use to classify an episode as among the worst of a season, or the show, or whatever. Is it worse for an episode to be formulaic/cliche/boring/forgettable, or for an episode to be actively frustrating/annoying and have messages/characterization/etc. with which I actively disagree? It might seem that the latter type of episode would obviously be worse. But, ironically, I may actually get more enjoyment/entertainment out of many of the latter type of episodes, since I think a lot about them and try to pick apart what exactly I didn't like about them, and I often end up clarifying my own worldview in the process. By contrast, formulaic/cliche/boring/forgettable episodes mostly don't lend themselves to much analysis, so they just kind of land with a thud and sink out of sight. That's probably part of the reason why I've never made a ranking of my personal worst episodes of a season or of the show (in addition to feeling like I probably criticize and pick apart episodes enough in my initial posts about them).

I suppose not every episode fits neatly into that dichotomy, though. Your example of "The Cart Before The Ponies" is arguably built around well-worn tropes, but that causes Applejack's, Rarity's, and Rainbow's behavior to be frustrating and annoyingly out-of-character, and not really in a thought-provoking kind of way.

[Sonic5421 423]

I have to admit, I liked this episode very much. Not only is it another Crusaders episode, but Big Mac got some dialogue other than his usual vocabulary, and it was a good chance for Sugar Belle to have a separate episode from the ones she's been in with Night Glider, Double Diamond, and Party Favor.

Plus, it seems now that any pairings that the fandom had regarding Big Mac and ponies like Cheerilee and Marble Pie have been shot down since Sugar Belle returns Big Mac's feelings after he redeemed himself by building her a new display case for her desserts. Also, the Crusaders even got another client with helping Feather Bangs with the three mares who have been swooning over him all episode.

All in all, I enjoyed this episode, and I'll give it a 9/10 for my score.

[Dowlphin 459]

So the CMC help Feather Bangs out and he just totally spontaneously opened up to them, and it's totally forgotten how he rudely intruded on and interrupted Bic Mac's private moments with Sugar Belle? He was being a huge jerk and not even one remark about how that might not be okay? Felt very hurried and pushed, when instead they could have shortened the ridiculous musical competition near the end a bit, since I found myself speeding that one up, which is shocking for me when watching a new MLP episode. Feather Bangs seemed like a mere metaphor, not a character.

Generally the 'formula' of the episode felt very familiar to me, even though it might have been a somewhat different theme before.

It had some fun moments, but the 'valley was long and wide'.

P.S.: I didn't vote in the poll, because I rate this episode as a precise 3.5/5. Neither 3 nor 4 would be accurate.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Dowlphin

[Batbrony 15,994]

Hey kids, it's your friendly, neighborhood Batbrony!  Gee whiz, another Saturday, another new episode of MLP, boy oh boy I sure am excited!  Well, let's embark on what shall surely be an enlightening and fulfilling experience for all of us and watch another new episode of our favorite show, MLP!!!

*one episode of I don't know what the buck I just watched later*

...

No really, what in the hell did I just watch?  Because it sure as hay wasn't MLP!  Uh-uh, I refuse to call that MLP, not in a thousand years would I call that MLP!  What was that piece of ass strutting around pretending to be MLP?!?!  Guys... I have to tell you.  I never thought this day would come, and I really hoped it wouldn't, but, it is official... after five years of "MMMMystery on the Friendship Express" being my worst episode of MLP ever, I... I now have a new worst.  It is this.  Fillies and gentlecolts, "Hard to Say Anything" is... it is only TECHNICALLY the worst MLP episode I've ever seen, because I still refuse to consider this abomination to be an actual episode of MLP.  It. Is. That. Bad.  There is no truly easy way to sum up everything that hurts about this episode, so I'm just going to have to go through the whole episode from beginning to end, sharing exactly what I'm thinking as I first watched this... thing.  Well... here goes nothing.  This is *throws up in his mouth a little* "Hard to Say Anything."

Alright, so things start off with the CMC getting some old costumes!  Well, nothing wrong with that really, seems a bit odd that they'd be excited about that at this age, but OK, I'll bite.  Well then it turns out that the "costumes" are a clown wig, a pirate hat, and mustache-gag-glasses.  Uhhhhhhhhhhh, guys, you do realize that even five-year-olds know those aren't costumes, right???  Well as long as it's just some throwaway gag I guess it's no big- wait, what's that?  These stupid not-costumes are a crucial plot-device that keep getting brought up throughout the episode?  Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... why?  I mean, really, why?  The CMC (as demonstrated multiple times, including the past two episodes) are at a point in their lives where they're mentally and emotionally mature enough to solve problems with their intellect and by reasoning things through.  The last time they needed costumes for anything was when they tried to get their cutie marks in a talent show, and (1) those were actual costumes that they made, (2) they were younger, and (3) it was just a bucking talent show and one of dozens if not hundreds of things they tried to do to get their cutie marks, not a potentially life changing situation like in today's episode!  OK, so... not exactly off to a great start now, are we?  Well, what comes next?

Wowwwwwwww, that... yeah, that looks pretty bad guys.  Frankly, your apple disguise in this episode was a better disguise than these...

...and that should tell you everything you need to know about how these work as disguises

OK, Big Mac's here, and we learn he's taking some apples off to Starlight's old village for the fifth time in a single week.  First of all, that doesn't seem possible for a number of reasons.  First, the Mane 6 had to take a bucking train to originally get there when they first found the village.  Because, ya know, it's in a pretty remote part of Equestria, and all.  Big Mac, as far as we can tell, is just dragging his bucking apple cart all the way there.  Second, Sweetie Belle distinctly mentions later in the episode that it was a long ride, so once again, I find it difficult to believe that even Big Mac could get to a location that is most likely hundreds of miles away five times in a single week just by dragging his heavy apple cart around.  He may be strong but even he can appreciate and take advantage of the convenience of a train when the situation warrants it!  But anyways, it clearly doesn't seem like that's why he's going, something which the girls quickly notice.  Do they notice because they reason amongst themselves that it's downright odd that Big Mac would be making so many trips?  Well, kind of, but not really.  Really the big factor that leads any of them to conclude that Mac is up to something is Scootaloo saying she noticed him blushing, which just seems... dumber.  I mean, who really ever notices anyone blushing unless they're right in their face?  It's not like the blush alone was the only give away that something weird was going on, the CMC could've easily concluded that just by reasoning alone, but no, instead they figured it out because of something really stupid and cliche like noticing Big Mac blushing from a distance.  Then they make some really stupid bucking guesses about why he's making so many trips and decide to tag along to spy on him.  Not only is this decision made in a span of 10 seconds, but the CMC also decide that the best way to go about this is to lug along their "costumes" as "disguises" so that they'll "for realsies be spies guys, like, totally, they're totes legit now!"  So now they're not pretending to be spies, they actually think they are being spies by dressing up in a clown wig, a pirate hat, and mustache gag-glasses... I would say this feels like something that S1/S2 CMC would do, but that feels like it would be insulting to S1/S2 CMC.  In fact, I'm sure it would be insulting to them.

Alright, so they get to Starlight's old village and what do they find?  Well, it appears that Big Mac has a crush on Sugar Belle, that cute unicorn from the S5 premiere who used to bake nothing but muffins during Starlight's old reign but is now the resident baker and is having the time of her life baking all kinds of yummy treats, many of which "conveniently" require apples to bake, and since they don't exactly have many apple trees in the area, she has to evidently order quite a few from the Apples (though admittedly it even appears that she has more than she needs, BUT she keeps ordering them on a regular basis and, during this segment, is clearly giving Big Mac some verbal and physical cues, and more than a few suggestive looks).  I'll be honest, this introduction to these two works for me.  Sugar Belle is as adorable as ever, the two seem to be going through the flirty, bubbly, butterflies-in-your stomach phase of a relationship RIGHT when it's on the edge of blossoming into a full blown one, and their chemistry is pretty infectious in this initial scene.  This beg's the question however, WHAT'S THE BUCKING PROBLEM!!! 

No, really, what is the problem?  Even the CMC notice that Sugar Belle is as into Big Mac as he is into her, and really their initial encouragement that he just go and talk to her wasn't bad advice.  Heck, they even point out that he didn't have a real first crush with Cheerilee considering it was a love potion, which, if you think about it, is kind of the pony-equivalent of a magical roofie.   That's more than a little uncomfortable to think about and probably a big reason the writers decided to never go forward with making CheeriMac into a canon pairing; there would always have been questions, very uncomfortable ones, about whether or not their initial relationship was set off by first getting together when they were magically roofied, and frankly those are questions that shouldn't be asked in this show.  So why I always did think that CheeriMac was a cute ship and am sad myself to see it die officially, I can understand why they would kill it and don't mind that, of all the ponies to pair him with, they chose Sugar Belle.  That's actually a creative choice, really!  She's not a local in Big Mac's hometown, and she's not a member of the Mane 6 or even a major character; she's just a random supporting character in a town very far away from Ponyville, which adds an interesting, long-distance relationship dynamic to her and Big Mac's pairing.  Really, when we look at this episode from the outside, this is not just a good set-up, but an incredibly promising set-up for a really, really cool status-quo changer in this show that could have been so, so good.  So what went wrong?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I'll tell ya what went wrong.  We've had shades of what's going to be so, so wrong up to this point, from some of the poor logic exercised by the CMC (namely those bucking stupid "costumes" they keep insisting are disguises, I swear I cringe every time Scootaloo puts that giant clown wig on and insists she's being a spy) but the moment Big Mac tries to express his feelings for Sugar Belle for the first time, this is where the s*** really hits the fan for the first time.

You see, when Big Mac tries to do something that should have just been a routine stage in starting a relationship which, by all accounts, was on the brink of starting anyway... this guy shows up...

Stop flipping your hair you obnoxious son of a turd's excrement 

This... is Feather Bangs, or as I like to call him, "Piece of Lazy S*** Excuse for Giving This Plot a Contrived as Buck Conflict."  Just... just look at him.  Breathe it in, folks, breathe the stench of fail that is this character in.  Where do I even start?  How about his introduction, or rather lack of one!  Yeah, this guy has no build up whatsoever!  We aren't told who he is, what he does, why the buck he has a crush on Sugar Belle (seriously, not once, he just seems to want to get with someone for the sake of getting with someone), or where the buck he even came from!  I ended this episode still not knowing whether or not he always lived in Starlight's old village, moved there only recently, or if he even lives there at all!  So yeah, HE HAS NO INTRODUCTION!!!  He just shows up and starts flirting shamelessly with Sugar Belle.  And you want to know what the really bucked up thing is?  SHE SEEMS INTO IT!!  WHY???  Two seconds ago she was eyeing Big Mac up and down and "accidentally" bumping her snout into his!  NOW she's into this tool???  Why is this so?  Why, why, why, why, why????????

I'll tell you why!  LAZINESS!!! GRADE A LAZINESS!!!!  Let's take a look at the "special" writer of this episode, shall we?  The writer of this episode is a first time MLP-writer by the name of Becky Wangberg.  Ya wanna know what else she's worked on?  The Fairly OddParents and a bunch of other no-name shows, most of which seem to be on Nickelodeon.  Now let me say this; Fairly OddParents at one point was a good show, much like SpongeBob Squarepants was.  But also just like SpongeBob, Fairly OddParents lasted too long and got driven into the ground by Nickelodeon's insistence that they keep churning it out, and eventually became a shallow excuse of a kids show.  More importantly for the purposes of our beloved MLP, I would never want ANY writer for Fairly OddParents touching MLP with a 10-foot pole because the shows are completely different from each other!  Fairly OddParents was almost always a comedy-show first and foremost, actual lessons were largely an afterthought.  And when it was good at that, it was just fine!  When it was bad at it, it was badddddddd.  But MLP has never, ever, EVER been a comedy-show alone; it has had episodes that place more emphasis on the comedy than anything else, but for the most part it usually tries to teach kids and adults alike smart but also accessible lessons.  They may sometimes be simple, but the execution is usually so good that one can't help but appreciate the efforts that went into teaching these lessons, and many times the lessons are very complex.  This episode was not just an opportunity to teach a good lesson about starting a romantic relationship, but was also a status quo changer for a major supporting character on the show.  So who do they give it to?  A veteran MLP writer?  OF COURSE NOT, THEY GAVE IT TO A FIRST TIME SHOW WRITER WHO HAS NOTHING ON HER RESUME THAT WOULD SUGGEST IN THE SLIGHTEST THAT SHE WAS QUALIFIED TO HANDLE THIS EPISODE!!!   If there is one thing that defines this episode more than anything else, it is how much the laziness put into the writing defines it.  It is a laziness we are unaccustomed to seeing in this show, and it is quite remarkable how much said laziness, something you might more typically see in a show like Fairly OddParents today, brings down a treasure of a show like MLP so, so much.  I will discuss this laziness later, but suffice to say that it is present, it is at the core of what's wrong with this episode, and it brings it down so, so, SO low!

Alright, so... picking up where I left off, Justin Bieber as a pony shows up (man, I really wish I never had to say that), acts like a dumbass, and for some reason Sugar Belle now likes this.  So Big Mac panics, because... Feather Bangs can juggle???

Anyways, he panics and the CMC decide to help.  Heck, they even make a point of assuring him that they are MUCH more mature than they were the last time they tried to help him with his love life and would NEVER think of magically roofieing him or Sugar Belle!  Well that's good, so do they suggest he do anything competent?  HA HA HA, you poor bastards give this episode too much credit if you think they do!  No, the characters who are probably late tweens or early teenagers by now (seriously, two weeks ago we had Sweetie Belle telling us she was into experimental theater right now, make up your mind show!) suggest that he do things as one would... in a fairy tale.

This is dumb.  OK.  It's dumb.  I don't want anyone telling me that the characters who tried to figure out if a griffon could somehow have a cutie mark, have time and time again tackled their own insecurities and feelings of failure and inadequacy, and are now helping other ponies do the same on a regular basis, would suggest that someone should try to get into a relationship by doing things as a Prince Charming would in a fairy tale in SEASON 7 OF THIS SHOW!!!  Heck, I don't think they would in Season 1 or Season 2 either, but Season 7??? REALLY???  Guys, if you wanted to do the "Character A needs help expressing his feelings to and starting a relationship with Character B with the help of Character C" trope, why did you pick the CMC in the first place?  The only circumstance in which they should have been the ones helping Big Mac out with his love life is if he and Cheerilee were for real getting together; that would have been an interesting opportunity for the CMC to make up for their past mistake when they tried to force them together.  But why are they here???  They don't know this town, they don't know Sugar Belle, and none of them have ever been in any relationship, SO WHY ARE THEY THE ONES HELPING HIM???  A friend and I agreed after this episode that it would have made far more sense if either (1) Starlight Glimmer, or (2) Applejack were helping Big Mac in this situation than the CMC.  First, they're both older so presumably at least know a little more about relationships by virtue of age alone.  Second, they both know the town and Sugar Belle, as well as Big Mac; Starlight Glimmer is at least sort of friends with him, and Applejack is his middle sister who can easily take charge of a situation at a moment's notice.  Either of these two would have easily been able to contribute more here than the CMC could, especially the CMC as they're being written HERE!

OK, so first up, they try to concoct a false peril for Sugar Belle by having Scootaloo feign stealing her saddlebag.  Can I just say I've never liked this trope?  Anyone willing to create a false, EMERGENCY situation to attract a girl's attention, well... that comes off as douchey... at best.  At worst, it comes off as a little creepy even.  Maybe even cowardly.  Point is, how much do you really care about someone if your icebreaker is MANIPULATING them?!  Anyways, it doesn't work, because once again Feather Bangs pops out of nowhere and intercepts (literally) Big Mac's save.  How he does this, I don't know.  Once again, there is no explanation for his seemingly just knowing when Big Mac is about to try to make a move, or why he gives a buck!  He's just there, and the thing that makes Sugar Belle falling for this even dumber is that she could see plain as day that Big Mac was about to catch her saddlebag before he even did!  SHE KNOWS HE INTERCEPTED BIG MAC'S SAVE AND STILL SEEMS INTO IT!!!  WHY?!?!?!?!  His douche baggery was just on full display for all to see!!!  Oh wait, I know, sing it with me kids, LAZY WRITING!!!

So next, the CMC, HOLY CRAP---- 

D'awwwwwwwwwwwwwww, you're so cute!!!  Who's a cute sweepy pony, WHO'S A CUTE SWEEPY PONY?  YOU ARE!  YES, YOU ARE!!! 

Ahem, anyways, the CMC decide that the best thing for Big Mac to do is... kiss Sugar Belle awake because that's what fairy tale princes do??? 

...

...

...

Uh oh...

So like a smart person, Big Mac says that that's creepy and nowhere near reflecting where they're at in their relationship- oh no, he goes along with it.  Wait, what?

Uh, Big Mac...

Dude, seriously, stop!

Well, what did ya think was gonna happen you creepy dumbass!!!

OK, people, in a different show the sequence of screen shots I just showed you could EASILY be the start of a VERY different sequence of events in, say, a show like Law and Order: SVU!  Let's put this in perspective.  Kissing someone awake is... not exactly something that many people except for the closest of couples do, like, couples living together, and even then it's not something they do on a regular basis.  But are Big Mac and Sugar Belle a couple at this point?  NOPE!!  They are (although having flirted quite heavily already) technically just business acquaintances and nothing more at this point in the show.  So what he just tried to do?  Yeah, I'm calling it, that's attempted sexual assault in a public space and this episode is too stupid to even realize it!  I don't care that it doesn't work, the show does not understand HOW bad what he just tried to do is.  Throughout the episode they keep mentioning that the love potion was a REALLY bad thing, but this?  This is played for laughs, and frankly, this is a million times worse than the love potion was even if one considers it a magical roofie.  The love potion was a bad idea from kids who don't understand what makes for a healthy relationship, but this is a grown ass adult who has actual romantic intentions for a pony who, at this point, does not return said intentions.  He is attempting to kiss her without her prior knowledge in a public space without her consent.  THAT. IS. ASSAULT!!!  YOU DUMBASS WRITER!!!!!

So obviously Sugar Belle freaks out (because what the buck else would you do if a dude you kinda like but aren't in a relationship with was leering over you as you slept in a public space and about to kiss you without your knowing, I mean, REALLY GUYS!!), but then, who should show up but Douchey McDouchemane, I mean, Feather Bangs (gosh I hate that name... also his name doesn't really make much sense since he's not even a pegasus, what the buck).  He offers her a random carriage ride, and she seems to happily accept; buck me, at this point she's giving him the same kind of eyes she was giving Big Mac earlier in the episode, so she seems to be pretty into him.  I would be madder about her going along with his schtick, but frankly, he was the far less creepy one in this scene, and that's pretty badddddddddddddd.

So finally, the CMC decide that Big Mac should try to win her over with a love song.  Granted, it's cliche but frankly it's a breath of fresh air (at least in theory) after the night terror we were just presented with in Mac's last disastrous attempt.  And honestly the song isn't that bad at first.  It's nothing special, but it's pretty sweet (aside from the whole sneaking into her store thing and closing the door while turning the lights off), and Sugar Belle seems to appreciate it too.  But then Feather Bangs comes back and we get easily the worst scene in the whole episode (and possibly the worst songs we've ever heard in the entire show), because HE brought his own song as well and... well, it's a Bieber song.  I don't know what else to tell you.  It's the MLP version of a Bieber song, and not a good one, with PLENTY of suggestive lyrics and visuals (I don't care if they were played for laughs, it made me more than a bit uncomfortable at points).  Even worse, the whole sequence turns into a pairing of dueling numbers, so basically we keep jumping back and forth from a clumsy, increasingly bad country song to a terrible pop song, and the two genres clash so badly that they just further amplify how bad it all is.  It's like somebody split up a bad bro-country song by completely separating the pop from the country, and it resulted in an equally bad pop song and country song.  Sugar Belle's not into any of it, and is most DEFINITELY not into Feather Bangs... wait, what?  Yeah, this whole song she clearly seems miffed at Feather Bangs when in the very last scene she was eyeing him up and down like a kid with a brand new lollipop and I don't know what the buck is going on now!  Was she ever into him?  Based on her earlier reactions, she had to be!

Oh wait... oh you sons of bitches... LAZY WRITING STRIKES AGAIN!!!   This is possibly the most egregious example of this in the whole episode.  The only reason Feather Bangs is supposed to be here is because we're supposed to believe that he is a viable rival lover to Big Mac, vying for Sugar Belle's affection as much as he is, for most of the episode.  The only way they're able to make us believe he has any chance as a rival is by showing Sugar Belle digging what he's doing, at least initially.  But now that we're supposed to believe that she's really into Big Mac, not Feather Bangs, she is inexplicably showing NONE of the earlier interest she showed for Feather Bangs, even though he's basically doing the same s*** he was doing before, just on a bit of a bigger scale.  Holy buck, that is AMAZING in its laziness!  I mean, really.  I don't even know what to say at this point other than... wow.  Just wow.  Characters flipping their behavior back and forth on a dime as easily as one would flick a light switch on and off.  Buck me, that's lazy.

This whole scene was ear-and-eye cancer... like, all of it, I seriously feel less healthy for having watched it

So what more is there to say?  After the "dueling songs" go disastrously, with Big Mac and Feather Bangs essentially destroying most of Sugar Belle's store, Big Mac and the CMC finally figure out what should have been a far easier lesson to teach, that showing someone you care about them in an especially special way means showing them that you know who they are and what they care about, and that you in turn care about them and what they care about.  WHY WAS THIS SO HARD TO TEACH!!!  So Big Mac makes her a new shelf, she loves it, they get together after some CMC shenanigans (involving, yet again, those bucking stupid NOT COSTUMES, WHY IS THIS A CRUCIAL PLOT DEVICE, IT'S NOT CLEVER?!?!?!), and they look really sweet and cute together. THE. BUCKING. END.

Oh wait, no it's not, because in the last 30 seconds we're supposed to feel sorry for Feather Bangs and hope that the CMC help him figure out how to talk to mares.

Uh uh, no way, you bastards don't get to pull that lazy, tired, "ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, he's not a bad guy, he's just misunderstood" trope in only 30 seconds when we have seen nothing redeemable about this twat since he was first introduced (if you want to call it that).  I hate that lazy trope, and it's yet another perfect embodiment of the utter laziness that characterizes this whole bucking episode!!!  Buck Feather Bangs and buck his lady problems, I hope every mare turns him down harder than a jackhammer chews up a sidewalk!  So let me reiterate if it wasn't clear already...

People, this was trash.  Hot, steaming, burning, wretched smelling trash.  This was SO much worse than "MMMMystery on the Friendship Express" in every way possible.  "MMMMystery on the Friendship Express" insults my intelligence, and the intelligence of any brony out there, BUT to its defense (and I never thought I'd be saying this) it is well aware that it is nothing but a throwaway episode.  Nothing important happens in it, it is just an episode for the sake of having another episode, that's it!  THIS was supposed to be a status quo changer, THIS was supposed to be a major development for a major, recurring supporting character!  We have barely seen any of the characters in the show get into relationships or the show itself handle the topic of romantic relationships; I hope it largely stays that way, but I also always hoped that the show would address it to a certain extent, because I always thought that this show, as good as it is, would probably be able to handle romantic relationship subjects better than most kids shows can.  I still believe that, even after this episode.  Sugar Belle and Big Mac are honestly, as I said earlier, a cute couple, and I think they could be a really good couple going forward!  Nothing about the pairing itself is what turned me off in this episode, in fact, that's where the tragedy of it lies.

This episode, for as bad as it is, feels like half of it IS good MLP.  There are signs of the quality from MLP we've come to expect on a regular basis.  The few genuinely funny lines in there (like Apple Bloom's "Quick, act like apples" line or Sugar Belle's "That's the whole town!  It's just the one street" bit) are typical MLP fare, little details like Sugar Belle's reactions throughout the song numbers as well as the fact that Starlight's house has been replaced by a tree, the largely inoffensive beginning and ending, the three mares who keep fawning over Feather Bangs (the fawning itself is disgusting but they have fantastic character designs and are pretty entertaining to watch), these things work!  Sugar Belle herself was honestly perfectly fine aside from when the script forced her to like what Feather Bangs was doing, besides that she was sweet, adorable, and her VA has the cutest voice!  But at the end of the day I found myself and a friend agreeing with one another that the end of CheeriMac is the least of this episode's problems, and that should tell you a lot right there.

The problem is the good was in a jumbled mess with sooooooooooooooo much bad, there was no clear cut divide between the two and on top of that, this was a lot of bad in an episode that should have been incredibly easy to do right.  What we got instead was patronizing to its audience, treating us as though we were too dumb to handle a more complex plot, and even worse it had no right to be patronizing because the episode was so much dumber than it thought it was!  If someone just understood who these characters are, how they behave, this premise, even with the CMC involved in it, could have easily turned into a good to great episode!  And that's why I keep referring to laziness as being at the core of what makes this episode a disaster, because I don't know how else to explain it.  A first time writer for this show bucking up an episode this badly in a critically acclaimed show that is in its seventh season?  Laziness, plain and simple.  There is more than enough material for this writer to have watched to have gotten more than a clear understanding of who these character's are for the purposes of her own episode, and frankly, I just think she didn't bother to do her homework.  The only other alternative is that she's just that bad of a writer, and I really hope that's not the case because if so, I don't know how she's still getting work.  But for the time being, I'm chalking it up to unforgivable laziness, and for such a piss poor effort put into what should have been such an important episode, "Hard to Say Anything" gets an F---------------------- from me.  It is not even in my book an episode of MLP, because it is unrecognizable as MLP.  I would expect this level of quality from other shows that Ms. Wangberg has worked on (on their bad days), but for MLP, this is simply unacceptable.  DHX, please, learn from this and don't ever let this person work on this beloved show ever again, much less on episodes that should be so important.  In fact, don't ever assign first time show writers such important episodes ever again.  Congratulations, "Hard to Say Anything," you are now my least favorite episode of MLP, and I hope it stays that way, because I shudder to think of what an episode would have to do to make me hate it more than I hated this one.

Buck me... that's all I got for ya this week everypony.  Until next time (in a Celestia-willing better episode than this) this is Batbrony signing off.  I'm off... to get a drink... or twenty!!! *cue dramatic exit to the bar*

When an episode drives Batbrony to get drunk dressed as Superman, you know it done bucked up

[Will Guide 21,325]

 

@Batbrony I knew you were going to hate this episode when I first saw the Canadian airing of it. As I have said earlier on it:

On 5/13/2017 at 1:00 PM, WiiGuy2014 said:

After the posts on this so far, I have to say the episode lives up to its title not just because Big Mac finds it hard to say anything, but that it's also very tough for those of us who want to enjoy it, but end up saying, "It's hard to say anything nice about this episode!"

Well, isn't that just meta?

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,293]

Damn, the responses to this episode are brutal and I have yet to watch it at all despite having it downloaded since the Canadian showing. Not sure if I should avoid this one like the plague still or watch it just for sadistic funsies. 

[Megas 27,064]

lol I dunno

For some reason, the super negative reactions to the episode is actually making me hate it less

[Music Chart Fan 818]

45 minutes ago, Batbrony said:

Starlight's house has been replaced by a tree

Wow, good catch, I completely missed that. After you pointed it out, I went back and looked, and Starlight's house is actually already replaced by the same tree in "To Where And Back Again" as well. That's a neat background detail that's never been explicitly mentioned or pointed out in the show.

[Batbrony 15,994]

27 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

Damn, the responses to this episode are brutal and I have yet to watch it at all despite having it downloaded since the Canadian showing. Not sure if I should avoid this one like the plague still or watch it just for sadistic funsies. 

Watch it.  It needs to be seen, at least once, to be believed... nah, I'm being overdramatic, it's basically if you crossed MLP with a bad Fairly OddParents episode... still a thing that should never have happened, for the record, and still my least favorite episode of the show ever right now. 

[GiFTGewEhrSCHutzen-4 8,827]

Wow, so much hate for this episode, guess I'll get to be the Heretic, or even the Black Sheep of this thread. Sure, it's not the best episode, but I did enjoy watching it. Again Big Mac gets to speak a few words, instead of his usual Eeyup/Nope thing.

[Thrond 3,257]

55 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

Damn, the responses to this episode are brutal and I have yet to watch it at all despite having it downloaded since the Canadian showing. Not sure if I should avoid this one like the plague still or watch it just for sadistic funsies. 

It's faintly odious but it's mostly just obnoxious and tiresome. If outdated parodies and a few characters acting badly for 22 minutes sound fun to you, go ahead. 

[Truffles 2,033]

17 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

This makes me think of a conundrum I've had about the criteria that I, and others, would use to classify an episode as among the worst of a season, or the show, or whatever. Is it worse for an episode to be formulaic/cliche/boring/forgettable, or for an episode to be actively frustrating/annoying and have messages/characterization/etc. with which I actively disagree?

In my case if I get triggered and there's nothing remarkable about an episode to help me to overlook it, that alone is the biggest factor in where I rate an episode overall. The perfect example is "Fluttershy Leans In," which I dislike more than this episode simply because there was hardly anything interesting in it to offset how annoyed I was with the contrived conflict generated by the unprofessional and clueless experts. The same is true for "The Cart Before the Pony."

Of course, even when an episode has some decent stuff going on in it, enough annoyances from problems can always overwhelm it like I said when I complained 2 years ago in this thread about why I dislike "The Super Squeezy Cider Easy 6000" so much here. (Though I'm no longer sure if I like this episode less or "TCBtP" more now... I guess I should torture myself one of these days and watch them back to back to find out. XD )

 

9 hours ago, Whompy Whomperson said:

lol I dunno

For some reason, the super negative reactions to the episode is actually making me hate it less

Coming into this episode knowing what a lot of folks thought of it did seem to make a difference for me. Either I was so completely braced for all the bad that it didn't trigger me or the scenes in question had enough of a reason to exist that they didn't bother me. From my recollection "Honest Apple" is another episode that seemed to get some significant hate, so I guess I'll get to test these theories again next weekend, lol.

[Music Chart Fan 818]

56 minutes ago, Truffles said:

I complained 2 years ago in this thread about why I dislike "The Super Squeezy Cider Easy 6000" so much here.

I guess I probably shouldn't sidetrack this topic even more, but I totally agree. While I've never made a list of most disliked episodes of the show, this one would be a very strong contender for the MOST disliked. This is one of the earliest episodes I remember seeing on actual TV with several other family members (before I went back and watched all the episodes in order), and even then, and ever since, I've felt like I could fill a book writing about how utterly stupid and annoying essentially all the characters in that episode act.

[Wingnut 6,732]

I honestly felt ill after watching this one and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one.  The thing that took the cake was Big Mac trying to kiss a sleeping Sugat Belle and her horrified reaction to it.  The sing off also went on for too long and really got on my nerves.  It's a shame because the premise was a good one and it marks an important moment in Big Mac's life.  They could have done so much better.