S07:E15 - Triple Threat

[Brainstorm 4,125]

It was cool seeing the Map calling Spike, Ember learned to show her feelings and Thorax learned how to give orders the right way, I'm glad they forgave Spike.

You can't blame Spike in this episode, with Ember just learning Friendship and Thorax being a New Leader, you can understand why Spike was nervous.

7 hours ago, Oleks said:

Seeing how muny negative comments this episode is getting, I’ll just point out the things I liked about it: 

• Thorax has difficulties being a leader, and a group of changelings still remain as they used to be. That’s a little compensation for the hastened reformation, and a promising development for the future.
• Amber hasn’t changed much and still mostly sticks to dragons’ ways. Also, her interaction with Starlight and “dragon racism” were pretty funny. The moment with Derpy cracked me up.
• It was nice to hear Lyra talking again. Certainly, a pleasant surprise for me (the obligatory complains about pandering don’t bother me at all).
• Twi's comfy chair.

The Map’s logic is unfathomable. I think I’ll just deal with it and won’t try to overanalyze things. 
As for the story in general… that’s what you get after appointing an underage dude as an official ambassador. Even though Spike can do better. Much better.

Yes, I agree. Spike's a good friend to Ember and Thorax.

[FlareGun45 2,221]

People are calling Spike an idiot, but they forget! If Spike was an idiot in here, that means Twilight was an idiot in Flurry of Emotions for multitasking, AJ an idiot in Honest Apple, and Pinkie an idiot in Rock Solid Friendship! You think they were all idiots in there? Everyone makes mistakes once in a while! This was Spike's first mistake in a long time! He's smart for his age, I hope you realize that! Give a kid an adult job like an ambassador role, you expect them to make a foolish mistake now and again. We all do dumb things! Remember the song in the last episode about not being flawless?

If you just think about that, this was one of Spike's best episodes! He wasn't a perfect snowflake, but he did get development! He has a new job, and he can get called by the map! And now he's closer to Ember and Thorax than ever before! I call this a success!

But like I said, I don't want this to be his only starring episode this season! He needs a second one! It's either To Change a Changeling was a typo and instead of Trixie it's Spike, or Uncommon Bond belongs to him. He gets two episodes most seasons, so it would make sense to give him another one.

[Will Guide 21,378]

4 minutes ago, MegaSean45 said:

People are calling Spike an idiot, but they forget! If Spike was an idiot in here, that means Twilight was an idiot in Flurry of Emotions for multitasking, AJ an idiot in Honest Apple, and Pinkie an idiot in Rock Solid Friendship! You think they were all idiots in there? Everyone makes mistakes once in a while! This was Spike's first mistake in a long time! He's smart for his age, I hope you realize that! Give a kid an adult job like an ambassador role, you expect them to make a foolish mistake now and again. We all do dumb things! Remember the song in the last episode about not being flawless?

If you just think about that, this was one of Spike's best episodes! He wasn't a perfect snowflake, but he did get development! He has a new job, and he can get called by the map! And now he's closer to Ember and Thorax than ever before! I call this a success!

But like I said, I don't want this to be his only starring episode this season! He needs a second one! It's either To Change a Changeling was a typo and instead of Trixie it's Spike, or Uncommon Bond belongs to him. He gets two episodes most seasons, so it would make sense to give him another one.

I especially agree with the first paragraph, about everyone making mistakes.

[Phirun Natela 77]

He found his art never progressed when he literally used his sweat and tears.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Phirun Natela

[Aethylynn 45]

14 minutes ago, MegaSean45 said:

If you just think about that, this was one of Spike's best episodes! He wasn't a perfect snowflake, but he did get development! He has a new job, and he can get called by the map! And now he's closer to Ember and Thorax than ever before! I call this a success!

One observation was how Twilight and Starlight were following Spike's lead in a lot of places. Spike often gives advice and the others even follow it, but taking the lead is a significant step in Spike's development, even if it was a screw-up.

[NightmareLuna800 1,383]

Why is this thread missing the poll again this week? Can someone add it?

[Dark Qiviut 22,681]

2 minutes ago, NightmareLuna800 said:

Why is this thread missing the poll again this week? Can someone add it?

Someone posted one with a poll earlier today.

[Celli 4,356]

Good episode, but not quite as good as last week's episode. Still think F&M is season 7's best.

[Thrond 3,272]

1 hour ago, MegaSean45 said:

If Spike was an idiot in here, that means Twilight was an idiot in Flurry of Emotions for multitasking, AJ an idiot in Honest Apple, and Pinkie an idiot in Rock Solid Friendship! You think they were all idiots in there?

I don't think Twilight or Spike were idiots in their episodes, but I do think Applejack and Pinkie were perhaps a little daft in theirs, as was Rarity in "Forever Filly."

The thing is, here, Spike is still a teenager at most, and is being expected to fulfil a task which he has no experience with. He also has Twilight as something of a mentor figure, so traits like her tendency to worry about even little things could easily rub off on him. Plus, I wouldn't really say that Spike knows Ember all that well, so it makes sense to me that his stress would prevent him from remembering the soft side which allowed them to be friends in the first place, whereas we know for a fact that Thorax isn't a massive fan of aggressive personalities. He's more bothered by maliciousness than by aggression, but Spike is stressed out, so it's feasible that he'd forget that. 

I still don't really know how he booked the two on the same day and forgot, though, as I'd expect Twilight's #1 assistant to have gained some organizational habits. But, you know what? I don't think Spike's actions were so hard to understand here, and I found the general idea that he's slightly in over his head and not entirely sure what he's doing fairly sympathetic. That's why "Party Pooped" is one of my favourite episodes, after all. 

[Truffles 2,033]

11 hours ago, Hierok said:

That's because Lesson Zero fitted in Twilights character, but this didn't with Spike. 

Go back and check out the end of "The Crystal Empire, Pt 2." There you'll find Spike panicking pretty much like he did here while he's waiting for the Celestia's response to Twilight's "test." So while I agree it's rare, it's not like he has never fretted to an extreme before.

The biggest problem with this episode is that, even though it's supposedly a Spike episode, Spike himself here is mostly irrelevant. He's there to kickstart the conflict and move it forward at various points. But as others have said, he didn't really solve the problem. It was stopped for him on its own when Ember and Thorax finally met one another by accident and ended up being friends after an initial misunderstanding.

I guess if I really want to dig deep into plot details (and basically second guess myself), Spike did help solve the problem since he was the one they were fighting over. If they didn't know him and just met on the street, they probably wouldn't have ever become friends.

The episode did develop his character, though - we learned he can be called by the map (which I suspected ever since Starlight was called just a few episodes ago but didn't think it would happen to Spike until S8 - I thought the CMC would be up next) and he did learn a good lesson about the pitfalls of looking only at the bad side of things. (Though I guess if he worked in quality assurance that actually would be pretty helpful.  )

 

Some additional thoughts:

After reading everyone's comments on various sites and thinking about it all day, I was expecting to not like this episode as much on the second viewing, much like how I felt about last week's episode because the endorphin rush from all the jokes had worn off. Surprisingly, that didn't happen. I guess the jokes between established characters age better than jokes involving one-shot anonymous background ponies? I guess there might be a case for this because Rarity's dressmaking last week was still funny when I saw it again this morning, and has softened my view of "Fame and Misfortune" a bit. Rarity was the best thing about that episode!

I was surprised at Thorax coming to Spike's defense in such an aggressive manner. It was charming and even heroic for him to do that, since even as a bear he probably was the underdog when dealing with a fire breathing dragon. But all the same I didn't think he cared about Spike that much. I knew they were BFF's, but because they've has so little interaction after "TTAaC", I didn't really have a feeling about how far their friendship really went, especially after Thorax befriended Starlight.

At first I didn't get why Ember thought smearing Derpy's muffin on the wall was a good idea. Then I finally realized she was just applying the knowledge she mistakenly thought was the case about decorating the castle with "food" for friendship. Duh on me. 

When Ember interrupted Thorax while they were along together and shouted at him to "stop talking," I swear I thought she was going to lay a big old kiss on him the next moment. 

Thorax looks ridiculously cute emulating Twilight trying to get all comfy in her special chairs!

I still miss the black, sad-puppy-dog version of Thorax, but because his personality is so endearing and hasn't changed his new form is OK with me. Maybe he'll take on his old form temporarily when he has to go negotiate with his brother in a few weeks? 

Edited August 20, 2017 by Truffles

[Driverscissors 75]

13 hours ago, Star Mist said:

This is one of those episodes that if they just meet and talk each other in the beginning then none of these issues wouldn't even happen. Spike should of just introduce them even with his over-reacting assumptions about how Dragons and Changelings won't get along but instead he tries to separate them and lie to them, eventually creating the problem. I know for the sake of the moral or lesson of the episode but saying it like that, Spike should of known how both Ember and Thorax were because he knows them for who they are, not who they were and Twilight should of suggest to Spike to allow them to meet instead of helping him trying to hide them from each other. What's the worst thing that can happen? Twilight being the Princess of Friendship and she didn't see that issue.

You summed up my main problem with the episode pretty well.

Also, am i the only one bothered with the fact that no one bothered to correct Amber on how the castle and the silverware( Crystalware?) aren't food? It was a funny gag, but structurally that's not a good thing for the castle and should be addressed.

[Ginger Ale 724]

I really loved the episode, to be honest, glad some theories are wrong. It was all Thorax and not Chrysalis disguised as him and they didn't fight at all. I just love Thorax a lot and also I believe lots of fandoms will now ship Thorax and Ember, let the shipping begin. Although I do not ship Thorax. It was a 10/10 episode and Thorax was the best.

[CypherHoof 26,483]

11 hours ago, Hierok said:

I think we are going to see more episodes with the map calling other ponies for problems in the future.

Difficult to tell. Yeah, we have scope creep on this one, but so far the outliers are glimglam (who lives in the castle and is Twi's pupil) and Spike (who has his own mini-throne next to Twi's). Now, if the Map called the CMC to someplace, that would be a reach...

15 minutes ago, Ginger Ale said:

 I just love Thorax a lot and also I believe lots of fandoms will now ship Thorax and Ember, let the shipping begin.

I can totally see that - particularly given Thorax could actually be dragon shaped if he wanted to be (but presumably would want Ember to care for him the way he really is, hence conflict)

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,167]

@PinkiePie97I hope you don't mind me moving this thread and making it the official thread for the episode.

[Ganondorf8 11,813]

The map being utilized in this episode definitely came out of nowhere though it does beg the question as to how does it determine who can be summoned by it to solve a friendship problem. I did find it adorable that Spike's representation on the map was a side view of his head--it could be his own cutie mark in a sense--not to mention that his spikes glowed as a means of a trigger. He was definitely the highlight of this episode as he goes through all manner of emotions as he solves the problem that he created.

You could see how the episode was going to turn out from a mile away when Ember came onto the scene shortly after we saw Thorax but I thought it was hilarious how Spike tried his best to entertain both with Twilight and Starlight getting dragged into the mess. Ember's interactions with both ponies was an absolute blast as she couldn't tell them apart and even went as far as saying that they looked and acted similar to one another. I wonder if that was a nod to the fandom or something else entirely? On another note, Ember may have invoked the ire of Derpy fans the world over when she did what she did to that muffin. Also, Twilight's castle needs to be refortified a little to prevent future consumption by dragons.

Thorax on the other hand... I wish he had been given better moments but his one with Twilight and the chairs was funny and also weird--which is what he said about it--because of how awkward it got. We also got to see what can happen when he loses his temper and we learned that not all Changelings have reformed in that sense. This could be a precursor to a future episode. Spike's worries were justifiable though he did go overboard sometimes all because he didn't look at the positives that could happen and instead focused on the negatives. Overall, this was a good episode.

[JH24 385]

When I first saw the episode I really disliked it. I felt Spike was humiliated once again, (and still feel that way) and really didn't like he had to grovel before his friends for a mistake that could have been resolved easily, and Twilight and Starlight shared some responsibility as well. I found it weird why they both went along with all the trouble instead of being honest with either Ember or Thorax. Why didn't they have to apologize?

A sincere apology is one thing, but I would never allow a friend to humiliate himself and grovel like Spike did.

On a second watch the episode was a bit more enjoyable, but I still didn't like it as much. Episode felt too forced for me to really get into it. Lots of funny expressions though, and I did find it funny in a way how the Map called Spike to fix the problem he created, yet in the end didn't do anything. Then it turns out Spike was the "friendship problem."

Thorax is simply adorable. They did a great job portraying his character.

Edited August 20, 2017 by JH24

[PinkiePie97 913]

4 hours ago, PathfinderCS said:

@PinkiePie97I hope you don't mind me moving this thread and making it the official thread for the episode.

Nah, it's fine. I knew that would happen eventually. I only started it because no one else had.

[CastletonSnob 3,107]

I think Thorax might have a crush on Spike. Just look at how excited he was to see him. 

[Zel 56]

Yeah. Pretty bland episode overall, nothing much to say about it. It went pretty much like I thought it would. Still it was a pretty nice characterisation for Ember and Thorax two important characters in the lore who needed an episode to really shown what they're all about now since they became the leader of their peoples. I think that this episode is more of a Thorax/Ember episode than a Spike episode in fact. The Spike lesson was just thrown in here to allow the episode to be long enough and the story to unfold (the two becoming mad at Spike being the step allowing them to learn how to express themselves) but wasn't clearly the important part. The Ember/Thorax relationship, learning from each other, was and the evolution of the leaders too.

Not sure if I am a fan of how the map was used in this episode. Spike being called is a good idea, he had his share of friendship since season 1 and can help without doubt... But in this episode it was just bullshit. The map normaly call the character to help defuse a friendship problem but in the end Spike didn't do anything about it really, he just resolved other things and never really did anything about the real task at hand. So why the map called Spike in the first place ? He didn't resolve the problem, Ember and Thorax did. Why is it mission accomplished ? He didn't do anything at all to resolve the conflict, it resolved by itself.

I think the episode would have been better if Spike purposely invited Thorax and Ember to some sort of friendship summit but then would have been called next by the map to defuse a problem in Ponyville which Spike would have assumed would have been caused by Thorax and Ember personnalities not matching well. Which would have been a better explanation to Spike panic state with the map backing up his stress and doubt. And in the end Spike would have understand what the map wanted him to be a sort of bridge between Thorax and Ember to allow them to understand each other and learn from each other, just like in the episode. It would have made much more sense than Spike between suddendly non trusting of Ember and Thorax like that to the point of actually thinking that the two of them could actually start a war...

[CastletonSnob 3,107]

Would you say the episode undid Spike's development in S6?

[Phirun Natela 77]

Tuesdays are free if you bring a gnome costume.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Phirun Natela

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,167]

11 minutes ago, VG_Addict said:

Would you say the episode undid Spike's development in S6?

I wouldn't say so. Spike's paranoia wasn't due to selfishness, and even then, like we've seen with Fluttershy, some development will take some time. I thought it added to his character; personally.

[ggg-2 3,557]

I still don't think assertiveness is the way to go for Thorax, at least not yet. Ease into it. Imagine if you were one of the newly reformed changelings or even an impressionable young nymph. If they saw their normally gentle, passive leader acting like that, they may make the wrong assumption and think it's like Chrysalis all over again.

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

50 minutes ago, VG_Addict said:

Would you say the episode undid Spike's development in S6?

No. Unless of course you just want to hate on Spike and be ludicrous about it. They actually developed him even more in this episode by giving him the same anxiety and stress a lot of characters feel when they are put under pressure and don't want to mess up. He is guilty of jumping to conclusions and making wild assumptions about all the things that could go wrong, but just about everyone has at some point or another. Most people here should be able to empathize with those feelings considering how damn many post topics and opinions about how bad something can go far into the future before it has even had a chance to happen. And then they wipe their brow and hope no one remembers all their doom and gloom after it does not turn out nearly as terribly as they were predicting.

Oh, and then they go make another one.

[Truffles 2,033]

9 hours ago, Driverscissors said:

You summed up my main problem with the episode pretty well.

Also, am i the only one bothered with the fact that no one bothered to correct Amber on how the castle and the silverware( Crystalware?) aren't food? It was a funny gag, but structurally that's not a good thing for the castle and should be addressed.

I figured because they were all already on edge over Ember and Thorax being together, they didn't want to risk triggering her over her eating the castle. At least if I was in that situation, I'd avoid the conflict with a fire breathing dragon especially if the castle repairs itself or can be easily fixed with magic.

But that brings up another point - was I the only one slightly put off by Ember's lashing out at anyone who disagreed with her? Granted, this is only her second appearance so it may be this is just who she is. But I didn't think she'd trigger so easily upon being pointed out when she's wrong.