So, The Last Jedi Came Out

[Castle Bleck 19,353]

I've heard some people defend Snoke's TLJ depiction, saying that ROTJ Palpatine was likewise a Generic Doomsday Villain.

Difference is - ROTJ Palpatine still managed to be an effective psychological threat, last until the finale, die in a cool way (wouldn't be surprised if Michael Bay took notes), and get a last laugh (i.e., destroying Vader's life-support). TLJ Snoke… didn't.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Anti-Villain

[Celli 4,338]

18 minutes ago, Jeric said:

That's the best part. I have no freaking clue! The story is literally wide open now. Since JJ is doing it it will likely have a similar tone to TFA. 

Things I would be happy to see ... 

 

A memorial for General Leia. 

The Knights of Ren

Force Ghost Luke

Lando 

 

Rian Johnson isn't directing it again?

[ChB 18,550]

I loved the movie! It is definitely one of my top three of the eight films (nine, if you include Rogue One). 

It kept me on the edge of my seat, throughout the whole plot. Despite being 2.5 hours long, not a single scene felt like an filler to me, except for maybe 2 minutes of the ending. The graphics of Yoda was a bit cringy to me, but even that didn't take away my appreciation of the fire scene.

 

 

By the way, I've never seen a movie with such difference in Rotten Tomatoes ratings, between critics and viewers. As of now (12/20/17, 11am EST), the film has a 93% from critics, yet only a 54% from viewers.

   

[Jeric 46,851]

3 hours ago, Celli said:

Rian Johnson isn't directing it again?

No he will be directing an unnamed non saga trilogy. JJ is returning to close out the story since Disney fired Trevorrow.

2 hours ago, ChB said:

I loved the movie! It is definitely one of my top three of the eight films (nine, if you include Rogue One). 

It kept me on the edge of my seat, throughout the whole plot. Despite being 2.5 hours long, not a single scene felt like an filler to me, except for maybe 2 minutes of the ending. The graphics of Yoda was a bit cringy to me, but even that didn't take away my appreciation of the fire scene.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

By the way, I've never seen a movie with such difference in Rotten Tomatoes ratings, between critics and viewers. As of now (12/20/17, 11am EST), the film has a 93% from critics, yet only a 54% from viewers.

   

There was actually a rush and Reddit / 4chan campaign to devalue it. The Google and IMdB ratings are more accurate than either the critic or audience score in RT. RT counts a 3/5 as Fresh. RT is constantly manipulated both ways. 

The grade I mostly lean on is Cinamascore. That score was an A. They poll people as they leave the theater having just seen it. It already hit 536 million and with school being out soon, that's going to get a huge second wind. 

[joanro 247]

4 hours ago, A.V. said:

I've heard some people actually defend how Snoke was handled, by mentioning that Palpatine was similarly a Generic Doomsday Villain in Return Of The Jedi.

 

That may be true, but at least Palpatine was still an effective psychological threat who made it all the way to said movie's finale, not to mention how he didn't go down without some sort of last laugh (i.e., destroying Vader's life-support); Snoke can't even say that.

Snoke died in such a lame way. The only thing lamer would have been if he had tripped on his own shoe laces and impaled himself on the lightsaber. What’s funny is there are still theories about him and that he may not be dead. Which would be cool, but let’s face it people he is dead.

[Fluttershutter 2,453]

On 12/19/2017 at 5:56 PM, Jeric said:

Like the Original Trilogy? 

The episodic nature of the films tend to lend itself to dynamic storytelling, a hallmark of this series and most television shows. Any die hard fan knows that from the initial draft in 1975, the story has been constantly revised. From Vader dying at the end of the first film, to Vader being Anakin, to Luke and Leia being siblings, to elements in all three of the prequels. None of the films had a master plan or true direction. Lucas certainly made up a lot of it as he went along. It's called development. 

Casual fans and non fans who just like the films don't care if the saga has a master plan. Most multi episode stories don't. Doesn't matter if it's a film series, or television show, or book series. Hell, any writer worth anything will tell you that what they initially thought of as an ending usually doesn't materialize as they keep writing -- regardless of whether you are a plotter or pantser. 

I completely understand why people may be upset at some of the twists in The Last Jedi, but to suggest that has anything to do with a lack of direction isn't really grounded in logic. 

George Lucas had a plan even if it changed. It wasn't just "Let's crank out as much of this crap as we can".

[Jeric 46,851]

51 minutes ago, Fluttershutter said:

George Lucas had a plan even if it changed. It wasn't just "Let's crank out as much of this crap as we can".

Can a plan that constantly changes be called a plan or true direction? I love the guy, but the man is the most inconsistent person when it comes to explaining his 'plan'. 

When you use the terms, 'crank it out', that implies something that went through a carbon copy process. This is the usual complaint one hears with some of the Marvel films. Problem is, that really doesn't apply with The Last Jedi. It subverts much of the typical expectations of the audience and fans, for good or ill. 

The writer and director had a specific vision for the film. He pitched the ideas to Kennedy and they green lit it. There is direction, given life by the person in charge of the film. The direction was to explore specific themes and solidify this as the story of Rey, Finn, and Poe. 

What you are saying seems awfully like Twitter boilerplate nonsense. D&V had some specific complaints, and while I don't see the film the same way he at least had substance behind his argument. Your argument, and rebuttal, comes across as vapid tripe. Like I said before, I'm ok with people who hate the film. Shit, you don't even need a reason to hate it, but when you attempt to contextualize boorish language with nothing exceeding a sophomoric statement, it's hard to have a proper dialog and conversation. 

[Octavia_Melody2 187]

I just remembered another issue I had with the movie. All the CGI critters designed specifically for marketing who were clearly inspired by Pokemon. I mean, I understand it's supposed to be an alien universe but I felt that the film would've made more sense if Luke was training Rey to be a Pokemon master. Gotta buy 'em all!

 

Also, is it just me or did Mark Hamill start to slip into his Joker voice when he was explaining how he almost killed Kylo Ren?

Edited December 23, 2017 by Octavia_Melody2

[Singe 2,111]

The movie just wasn't that good. I do have a complaint about a lack of the franchise's established aliens in some key roles. Like Rose could have been an alien character instead of human.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Singe

[Jeric 46,851]

On 12/22/2017 at 7:28 PM, Octavia_Melody2 said:

I just remembered another issue I had with the movie. All the CGI critters designed specifically for marketing who were clearly inspired by Pokemon. I mean, I understand it's supposed to be an alien universe but I felt that the film would've made more sense if Luke was training Rey to be a Pokemon master. Gotta buy 'em all!

This is actually a gripe I have with the non OT films. The creature designs in the OT were simple and exotic. What's more is that we saw far more dangerous creatures in the OT by the end of ESB. 

The PT creature designs unremarkable, but at least they had vicious creatures on occasion. We just have the rathtar in the new trilogy. 

I am itching for a bad ass creature like the Wampa, Rancor, Sarlacc, or Exogorth. 

[Octavia_Melody2 187]

1 hour ago, Jeric said:

This is actually a gripe I have with the non OT films. The creature designs in the OT were simple and exotic. What's more is that we saw far more dangerous creatures in the OT by the end of ESB. 

The PT creature designs unremarkable, but at least they had vicious creatures on occasion. We just have the rathtar in the new trilogy. 

I am itching for a bad ass creature like the Wampa, Rancor, Sarlacc, or Exogorth. 

While we're still on the subject I was just now reminded of a scene from TLJ on a meme site that I had suppressed out of sheer horror and repulsion. Remember that uncomfortably long shot of Luke milking that....thing....[shudder]....

[Fluttershutter 2,453]

On 12/20/2017 at 8:46 PM, Jeric said:

Can a plan that constantly changes be called a plan or true direction? I love the guy, but the man is the most inconsistent person when it comes to explaining his 'plan'. 

When you use the terms, 'crank it out', that implies something that went through a carbon copy process. This is the usual complaint one hears with some of the Marvel films. Problem is, that really doesn't apply with The Last Jedi. It subverts much of the typical expectations of the audience and fans, for good or ill. 

The writer and director had a specific vision for the film. He pitched the ideas to Kennedy and they green lit it. There is direction, given life by the person in charge of the film. The direction was to explore specific themes and solidify this as the story of Rey, Finn, and Poe. 

What you are saying seems awfully like Twitter boilerplate nonsense. D&V had some specific complaints, and while I don't see the film the same way he at least had substance behind his argument. Your argument, and rebuttal, comes across as vapid tripe. Like I said before, I'm ok with people who hate the film. Shit, you don't even need a reason to hate it, but when you attempt to contextualize boorish language with nothing exceeding a sophomoric statement, it's hard to have a proper dialog and conversation. 

My god you talk a lot and never let anything go.

I haven't seen this movie and don't intend to. I hated "The Force Awakens." That's pretty much the definition of 'carbon copy'.

And cranking things out means making one every year just because there's profit to be had. George Lucas took the time to make the movies he wanted to make. It was 15 years between Return of the Jedi and Phantom Menace. What do you think Disney would do if a director said "Sorry, this is gonna take another year." Fire them!

[Jeric 46,851]

2 hours ago, Fluttershutter said:

My god you talk a lot and never let anything go.

It's called a conversation.

2 hours ago, Fluttershutter said:

George Lucas took the time to make the movies he wanted to make. It was 15 years between Return of the Jedi and Phantom Menace.

An argument could be made using that example that waiting a while doesn't always equal quality. 

2 hours ago, Fluttershutter said:

What do you think Disney would do if a director said "Sorry, this is gonna take another year." Fire them!

You agree to produce in a set time for millions, damn straight they should hold them accountable. This isn't a charity. It takes approximately two years for this franchise under Kennedy's system since Disney doesn't get too involved in the creative process at Lucasfilm. And as I implied before, I loved TLJ more than the film that came after that 15 year hiatus. A lot more. 

Speed can equal enjoyable films. 

[Megas 27,624]

Spoiler

The more I think about this movie, the more it bugs me. 

- this is the first movie that actively made me think "what the hell is this doing in a Star Wars movie?" Many things in the movie felt really out of place, from little things like the Pink hair on the new admiral(more on her later) and the scene where Luke milks that alien cow and drinks it whole, to that fucking awful casino scene and Leia Poppins
- I'm not a fan with what they did with Luke here. You're telling me that the same guy who saw good within Darth fucking Vader and did everything he could to bring him back to the light, tries to kill a kid because he "saw darkness in him?"

Spoiler

well at least that's one more thing he shares with his father

- While it's been hinted in the past that Leia had connections to the force, the scene with her surviving in space after the command bridge was destroyed still felt like an asspull. 
- Holdo sucks, first off she looks like Tumblr forced it's way into the Star Wars universe but everything she did was fucking infuriating to watch. Constantly sending troops to their doom while fueling escape pods, giving the impression that she was gonna abandon everyone. Poe, understandably mutinies and tries to buy time to save the rest of the fleet until suddenly NOPE Leia knew what she was doing the whole time. Had Holdo actually communicated her fucking plans she might have had more people willing to fucking help her and she might not have had blood of several resistance members on her hands, and all this did was make Poe look stupid. And that scene with her staying behind just felt like a cheap attempt to garner sympathy but you know what? Fuck her, I'm glad she's dead
- The Casino scene is just painful, this is one of those scenes that just doesn't belong in the Star Wars universe. Not to mention it too boring and goes on for way too long
- Rose is one of the worst characters within recent memory, I honestly think she might be worse than Jar Jar, a lot of her attempts at humor feels really bad and forced, her "romance" with Finn is awful with no chemistry between the two. Her worst moment came at the end where she robbed Finn of a badass death, where she crashes into Finn right before he was about to destroy that cannon, and instead cost the lives of several more resistance members that could have easily been avoided
- Lots of "twists" that seem to cause more problems than anything. Snoke's death came out of nowhere and made no sense. He was supposedly responsible for Kylo Ren yet they threw him away like yesterday's garbage after so much build up. Captain Phasma is the same, constantly hyped up to be a huge badass only to go out like a chump. The only twist I liked was Rey's parents simply being bums, being nothing special. The way I see it reinforces how anyone is capable of being a Jedi/can be strong with the force. But otherwise the twists just reek of them trying to be clever and blindside you with an unexpected twist, but put zero thought into it.

I'm gonna go ahead and say I don't hate this movie, I enjoyed it, but it's a movie that frustrates me more than I'd like. The way it stands it's probably my second least favorite after AotC. I'm still interested in Episode IX though

 

[Prospekt 11,018]

Ahhh. I still need to post my thoughts on this movie. Saw it for the second time today.

Spoiler

The Good:

- I actually like the portrayal of Luke. He fits the part of the grouchy old Jedi monk pretty well, without completely letting go of the Luke we used to know.

- Rose is solid. Maybe not all that unique, but fun. I don't have much else to say about her.

- Leia is great, though I do have a problem with her near-death experience. Finn is great, though maybe not quite as admirable as he was in The Force Awakens. Poe is great.

- The movie presents a fresh perspective on the Force. No midichlorians. Just a universal force that calls out to Force-sensitive beings instead of only being something that people with just the right biology can manipulate.

The Bad:

- Snoke's death is underwhelming and happens too early. Honestly, I don't think it should have happened until Episode IX.

- Luke's death is underwhelming. Even though his somewhat OP diversion toward the end is actually pretty clever. I wish he had more of a proper swan song, ie. physically dying at the hands of the hungrier Kylo Ren and then--shout out to Episode IV--becoming one with the Force to watch over Rey. He actually might still come back as a Force ghost, but my scenario would be more believable.

- Still wondering who exactly the Knights of Ren are... are they the Jedi trainees whom Kylo Ren spared when he burnt the Jedi temple?

- Finn and Rey's reunion is underwhelming after their parting scene in the previous film when Rey promises she will see him again.

The Ugly:

- Leia's survival in the vacuum of space is the most ridiculous plot armor I have ever seen.

- Holdo is only interesting when she sacrifices herself to rip Snoke's flagship in half. Otherwise, she's a shadow of Leia who gets old fast and doesn't serve much of a purpose other than to belittle Poe.

- No new information about Snoke's past. And his portrayal is so unoriginal. I really wanted him to actually be threatening rather than a cackling guy in a chair.

- The story of The Last Jedi is good for maybe a 90 minute movie, but instead Rian Johnson stretched it into a 180 minute time slot with a mixture of pretentious filler like random-ass Porg appearances, the casino scene, a surprisingly disappointing Yoda scene, and Rey's trippy cave scene that serves only to reference The Empire Strikes Back, without actually advancing the plot.

Overall? I give this movie a 6.5/10. Disappointing. I really hope JJ Abrams doesn't make the same mistakes when he returns for Episode IX.

 

[Buck Testa 5,505]

I think it has some flaws but is over all a good movie. Most of the arguments I've heard against the film have been really overblown and usually consist of "bla bla bla SJW this bla bla bla all white males are bad or dumb in the movie that yadayadayada"

Like, I feel ya with the 2016 Ghostbusters, but honey I just didn't see it in this movie. Y'all are just being the right wing equivalent of a snowflake on this one. Not saying it didn't have flaws but it's not like Star Wars was ever a flawless series to begin with. It's a sci fi popcorn franchise. 

[Jeric 46,851]

31 minutes ago, Prospektlicious said:

- Leia's survival in the vacuum of space is the most ridiculous plot armor I have ever seen.

I've heard this several times and each time, Hubble's ghost cries. This is almost possible if you are I were in the same situation and had propellant. No air in your lungs and you actually have some time before loss of full awareness. The blast would have knocked all her breath out so ... It's survivable. Cold damage and radiation are the biggest long term effects. Add the fact that the most basic instruction of the Force is how to instinctually create a Force Bubble, and she likely could have survived another few minutes easy. I admit that the floating effect itself could have been shot at a different angle and maybe with a different pose. 

The other complaints are legitimate perspectives. 

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

It was probably the worst Star Wars movie yet in my opinion.  My major problems with the film was that the plot hinges on every character having an IQ smaller than their shoe size, Luke was so poorly written that it hurt and Snoke's death was hilariously underwhelming. 

[ChB 18,550]

In my opinion, Snoke's character, scenes, and death were great. The way he spoke and the way he controlled and manipulated Kylo made him so menacing to me that he made me wish he were dead long before Rey was on the ship. Thus, the death was far from premature to me. I can see how others did not like how his death was executed, but to me, it is more than forgivable for the following reasons: If a villain is much more powerful than the protagonist, then there are only three possible ways the villain can be defeated (that I can think of, at least): A Deus Ex Machina, a conspicuous weakness, or a mistake/vulnerability that the villain has overlooked. Snoke has committed the last of the three. He was so caught up in the heat of the moment and focused so much of his force and energy on restraining Rey and persuading Kylo that he overlooked the possibility that Kylo can use his light saber against him if he wanted to, even though it was on Snoke's throne. As for his character, I did not need to know his background any more than I needed to know Palpatine's background in Return of the Jedi. His power and intimidating voice was all I needed to see, as far as movie entertainment is concerned.

I can understand how many people's opinion of Snoke are the opposite of mine, though. He seemed even more menacing as a hologram in TFA, which is kind of sad.

[Dreambiscuit 9,691]

I may be too close to the glory days of classic Star Wars, with my views tinted accordingly, but nonetheless, a bad movie is a bad movie.

The flaws were there from the start, from the all-girl feminist Rebellion showing the galaxy how not to win a war (have these people never heard of an ion cannon against orbital assault?), to the self-consciously clever dialog, with more than a few popular earth references just to keep anyone from getting too immersed in a galaxy far, far away. The heroes get clobbered in the opening battle but at least a few manage to limp into hyperspace.

The movie only goes downhill from there. Now the New Order has the ability to track enemy ships through hyperspace, yet another aspect of the new trilogy that goes unexplained without so much as a cool twist like a traitor among the rebel ranks (which would have been the only hope for making Laura Dern’s pathetic character interesting). The rebels revert to sub-light only to have the New Order right on their tail and no point in attempting another jump. Sure, we have some ship to ship combat to keep the audience from falling asleep, and, borrowing from the J.J. Abrams playbook, Rian Johnson presents us with a pointless, tasteless fake death scene for Princess Leia, who can apparently survive in the vacuum of space as though she’s merely stepped outside on a cool day without a jacket. But hey, the Force is with her so, despite being borderline dead, she can snap out of it and fly like Mary Poppins through space to reconnect with her ship and crew. Amazing! But the false alarm demise of a classic character is better than no meaningless death at all, right? 

Sooo, now the stage is set for a drawn out movie-length pursuit of the rebels through sub-light space (rather than calling on the limitless resources of the New Order to simply head them off) and we have the backdrop for the rest of the so-called plot.

Of course we now have the part everyone’s been waiting for, the appearance of Luke in the story. I love Mark Hamill and seeing him was a treat. Unfortunately the character of Luke Skywalker (you know, the hero from the original trilogy) was absent. Most of his part consisted of showing us an older, less wise Jedi Master with his back to the camera disappearing over another hill, refusing to have anything to do with Rey, the Jedi, or anything the real Luke would have valued. But at least the director broke up the monotony with a tasteless shot of Luke imbibing from the udders of one of the indigenous. Sluuuuurp!

While nothing is going on there, or with the slow-moving rebel fleet, Rey and Kylo Ren have plenty to do mentally tweeting each other across the galaxy (it’s a lot more convenient to overuse this power than than writing a quality script). And it gives them an excuse for a gratuitous shot of our whiney Sith wannabe caught in a candid moment without his shirt. (I'm glad he wasn't on the toilet).

They do find a moment to elucidate Luke’s backstory with Kylo and the absurd idea that Luke, who refused to kill his father in Return of the Jedi, would have even fleetingly entertained the notion of taking a lightsaber to Han and Leia’s son, with whom he was entrusted. Now it’s just getting stupid.

But through all this, there is hope. A plot thread to take Finn and his new friend Rose to a far-off world with a far-fetched plan to save the fleet, which is still plodding…plodding…plodding through space. There they are to meet a gambler/scoundrel who can help. Naturally, every true fan of Star Wars is thinking, “Finally, a part for Lando!” but naw, the self-proclaimed fanboy director musta forgot about that guy. But it ends up irrelevant once our intrepid adventurers reach their destination and become far too interested in Disney’s hypocritical political views of the goings-on there to focus on the mission at hand. But by a contrived sequence of events, the goodguys prevail and they rush back to save the day before it’s too late (it isn’t too late to step out and stretch the legs at this point if anyone is wondering).

By now Rey, fully acquainted with the obligatory diatribes about how it’s not your father’s screwed up galaxy, but one where authority figures are taboo, manages to pad the plot with a pointless venture into the tree cave of Dagobah a watery hole in the rocks to learn from the good ol’ Dark Side. It reveals nothing (imagine that!) and she soon decides to forsake another look at Luke’s retreating back to head off for a meetup with her new buddy Kylo. This does leave an opening for a scene of Luke and the spectral Yoda, which was a delight, seeing them together again, if you can overlook that Yoda (being dead) wouldn’t have all the powers of a live Jedi Master, especially to the point of summoning lightning to burn down the tree of Jedi knowledge. If Jedi can do all the same stuff in death as they do in life, why not just have Qui-Gonn, Obi-Wan, Mace Windu and the rest of the gang come and kick New Order butt? We wouldn't need to train new Jedi at all.

By now the rebel fleet is getting bored running out of fuel and decides to evacuate their capital ships and head to a handy planet nearby. Luckily for them no one in the entire New Order fleet is looking out a window at this time or they might have noticed the mass exodus of small transport craft that was only cloaked to scanner detection (yeah, they ain’t invisible to eyeballs like it is with Star Trek cloaking devices). Don't worry, someone on board the New Order ships will notice eventually.

Okay, so by now Finn, Rose, scoundrel 'DJ' and Rey have all made their way onboard the New Order Dreadnaught to free the rebel fleet and face their personal nemeses respectively. As for Rey, well, you’ve all seen Return of the Jedi so you know what transpires in the Emperor’s throne room. Same thing here only less entertaining. Finn and Rose fail in their mission thanks to an ever-so-observant droid (BB-9E) who has nothing better to do, and DJ is dropped from the story as quickly as he was dropped in. But all hope is not lost, for Laura Dern is on the case to defeat the New Order with her impenetrable condescending smile by ramming her ship into the badguys' Dreadnaught. (Granted, a hyperspace jump into another ship is cool). All hell breaks loose but at least Finn and Rose (exclusively) manage to escape without a scratch. Yay! 

The party moves to the planet where the last few rebels have holed up. New Order AT-ATs advance on the rebels' stronghold there and it looks dire until Luke shows up, ta-daa! I don’t have any complaint here because his (loooooong awaited) scene with Leia, with John Williams' immortal ‘Luke and Leia’ theme from Return of the Jedi playing in the background, brought tears to my eyes. The face-off between Luke and Kylo was fun until the great anticlimax of Luke’s presence being nothing more than a Jedi illusion, something apparently only Disney’s Jedis are capable of doing. But wait, there’s more! This cool new power took so much out of the real Luke halfway across the galaxy (who elected not to show up in person in the X-wing pointlessly established early on) that he dies of…astral projection.

Oh well, what do we need him for? We’ve got Mary Sue Rey, who can save the rebels from their doomed base by effortlessly clearing away a rockslide (remember even Yoda seemed a bit fatigued after lifting Luke’s X-wing from the swamp on Dagobah, but not our Rey!)

The movie fizzles out with a Disney-calculated peek at what the future of their franchise holds, with the next generation already gearing up to take the spotlight when all the classic characters have been summarily killed off.

The movie was not without its good points. I loved seeing Mark, Carrie and the brief cameo of C-3PO and R2-D2 (did you miss it? Ya must’ve blinked!) And John Williams’ score was, as always, to die for. In other words, everything from the original Star Wars was great to see again. Everything else sucked. That’s my review. Sorry if it was long-winded, but if you can sit through the movie, you can sit through anything.

 

Edited January 8, 2018 by Dreambiscuit

[Denim&Venöm 18,916]

The more I think about it, the less I like this movie and the more glaring the flaws become. 

It took time, but I think I can pinpoint this films weaknesses.

1. It ignores the rules of basic storytelling. 

Chekhov's Gun is a literary tool, used to help authors trim down their story of filler. If something is gonna be featured, it has to service a purpose or have a proper pay off. Hence if a gun is given attention, it better be used. Or in this case, a light saber. Luke's light saber was given so much attention and focus, only to be literally thrown aside. Questions like how the light-saber was retrieved, the importance it would serve to Rey's journey, the link to Vader. Nothing was made of it. 

Of course that's just the literal take. There are many figurative examples.

• Rey's parents. Lots of hype. Lots of suspense. No payoff. Just a one line dismissal. 
• The dark side pit of the island. A place for Rey to confront her inner demons. Was left with a vague visual metaphor that had little story impact.
• Looking for the hacker in the casino. They ended up finding a different guy, so any time talking about or featuring him was a waste. 
• Luke's X-Wing. We saw it parked beneath the waves. The camera panned to it. Yet it's never flown. Never used. 
• Snoke completing Kylo's dark training. It's never completed. If anything, it's cancelled. Snoke casts off Kylo, deeming him a failure. 
• The Knights of Ren. We never see them. 
• Leia's allies in the outer rim. We don't knwo who they are. They don't show up. so why bother mentioning them at all. 

You don't grab an audiences attention like that, build up anticipation like that, only to do nothing with it. If there's no adequate pay off or no mention of it again, cut it out of the story. 

 

2. Inequality. 

Critics have lambasted fans with negative opinions on the show for being sexist. For hating female leads. Well why would fans be happy, when the female leads get to shine, at the cost of demoing the male ones?  Every major male protagonist is talked down to and shown the error of their ways by a woman. But it never happens the other way around.

The original trilogy, the prequels and even force awakens show both the male and female leads to be very competent.

Yet here, the guys are demoted to

• Coward or foolishly suicidal (Finn)
• Cocky and trigger happy (Po)
• Apathetic, misanthropic, pessimistic and stubborn (Luke)
• Whiny and over emotional (Kylo)
• Comedic relief (Gen. Hux)

These were men who were either heroes of the last movie, or growing into their potential as credible villains, yet downgraded to make the women appear to be wise, knowing, good hearted, level headed and right all along. Even though their decisions and rationale make little to no sense. A better movie would've placed them all on equal footing.

 

3. Convolution and logic gaps

There are moments that don't make sense, either in universe or when writing the story.

• Why did Holdo tell no one about the plan? Why did she assume everyone would fall in line when she didn't tell them anything? 
• How did DJ know about the resistance plan?
• Why did Luke, the man who saw good in child murder Darth Vader, even consider trying to kill his own nephew? 
• Why isn't the Republic helping the Resistance after the destruction of the core worlds? There were other fleets, other worlds. The title crawl exposition dump never said the republic surrendered or was completely destroyed. 
• Luke uses force projection to confront and distract the first order. But he tells no one of this plan. Just assumes everyone will get it. 
• Why don't the first order just look out a window to see the escaping shuttle craft? Why wasn't this accounted for in Holdo's plan to begin with? 
• Why did she wait to use the Radus for a FTL kamikaze run? Why didn't she do that with the other  ships? Use those to destroy the fleet and flee on the ships that do have fuel, instead of leaving them to be destroyed? Yes, it builds tension for that epic scene, but it shouldn't be done to make everything else questionable in hind sight. 
• Rose stops Finn from sacrificing himself to destroy the siege laser. A. The crash could've killed them both. B. she justifies it by saying you don't win by killing the enemy, but by protecting those you love. The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's how the rebels defeated the empire. Through destruction. basically she's saying, "If you kill them, they win." And how did she catch back up to him? She was in retreat. 
• Why does BB-8 suck at it's job? 

4. Military and combat incompetance

In a film called Star Wars, the combat and fight scenes are very important, and those are only as good as their combatants. Which in this movie, aren't. So many examples of military blunders and poor planning, they deserve a separate list from the proceeding subject. 

• Where were the Y-wings during the bombing run? Those were more maneuverable and harder to hit than the giant stratofortresses the resistance used.
• Why didn't the resistance fleet use missiles instead of close range bombers? 
• Why didn't the other star destroyers do anything, or at least surround the base to prevent escape?
• Why didn't the dreadnought launch it's own fighters to attack Po?
• Po is reprimanded for cutting communications and getting people killed, but those pilots still had coms. Leia could've ordered them to stay. So either she didn't, and she's incompetent, or she did, and it's the fleets own damn fault for going on that suicide charge. 
• Po is demoted and reprimanded by Leia, but he was in the right. A hundred pilots lost is more than a fair trade off to destroy a fleet killer and slay a hundred thousand imperial crewmen. That's a 1-1000 ratio of death. 
• Why didn't the first order just light speed jump ahead of the rebels to finish them off? 
• Why isn't Gen. Hux replaced? Why does a space navy have a general? 
• Why did the first order send a small group of fighters to attack the fleet, instead of wave after wave of tie fighters and bombers? 
• On Crate, why did the first order send all of it's Tie Fighters to fight the Falcon, instead of sending some and leaving the rest to attack the speeders.  
• Why did Po call off the suicide run on the siege laser? His past tactics have a history of succsess. Running away won't save the survivors in the base. 
• Why didn't the first order just bombard the base from orbit? A fleet like that can glass a planet. They can handle a base. 
• Why hasn't the resistance, the first order, the rebels, the imperials, the republic or the CIS used lightspeed kamikaze tactics before now? A Star Destroyer used as an FTL projectile can decimate a planets surface. At that rate, just attach a hyper drive to an asteroid and use that as a weapon. Cheaper than two death stars. Heck, that could in of itself destroy two death stars. 

 

5. The Hero's Journey. 

There's always the consistent them of the adventure our heroes go on, furthering the story and growing from it, enduring struggles and overcoming hurdles. We never get that here. 

Rey never gets the scale of training, struggle or growth that Luke did in Ep. five and six. Finn and rose go on a mission that's more political statement than character arc. Po just stands around either angry or sulking. None of the new crop truly struggle or face adversity like anyone in the previous 7 movies + Rogue One did. Tthere was no progression for the characters. They seem to be in the same place they ended up at last movie. 

 

6. Personal taste

These are things I found underwhelming to me that may not be convoluted, poorly written or insult my intellect but these are things I foudn underwhelming and this is more subjective critique, rather than an objective deconstruction based on poor writing and a lack of logic. 

• I am not a fan of Luke fading out into the sunset, nor him being so OOC. 
• I don't like Snoke being such an underwhelming villain.
• I don't like Capt. Phasma being underutilized again. 
• I'm not a fan of the political commentary. 
• I don't like how the message was handled. The past being meaningless and ultimately forging you own legacy. It could've been handled much better.
• I also don't like hearing how this will all pay off int he last movie. If you  need to sacrifice a whole film just to make another succeeded, then you've already failed. 

 

All in all, this film bothers me like no other had before, and I had to articulate my thoughts about it in a concise manner before it kept on bugging me. 

 

 

 

 

[Hierok 11,831]

On 7-1-2018 at 2:14 PM, Yamet said:

It was probably the worst Star Wars movie yet in my opinion.  My major problems with the film was that the plot hinges on every character having an IQ smaller than their shoe size, Luke was so poorly written that it hurt and Snoke's death was hilariously underwhelming. 

I think Luke was done right. I know some people want er him not to coware. I actually think that that was the best thing they could have done. I only do not like the fact he kills hisself.

[Celtore 2,770]

I thought the film was alright. It wasn't bad, certainly better than the Jumanji remake, but it wasn't that great either. Entertaining, but certainly not without it's rough edges.

I really dislike that snoke is gone and Kylo Ren's apparently now the main bad guy. Snoke may have been generic, but at least I could take him seriously as a villain; Kylo Ren is like a whinier, "edge-lordier" version of Justin Trudeau. Plus, instead of killing him off in this film, they could have given him some depth instead. The last twist with Luke was also a bit... disappointing. When (spoiler) Ren sliced right through him without causing injury, I thought that Luke must have been a force-ghost throughout the entire movie. That would have been such a cool twist and explain so much about his character flaws! But nope, force projection and then he dies anyway.

[Denim&Venöm 18,916]

Yay. Someone fixed it. 

 

[EpicEnergy 23,218]

I like the Last Jedi, but it's not my favorite out of the series.