Was the Confederate Flag ban unnecessary?

[Thorgir the Mighty 736]

I might be the only one,but I want to hear your opinions. I’ll stary.

well first off,to me the Confederate Flag is not racist nor does it stand for racism. To me (since I’m from the south) the flag stands for Southern Pride and the 13 States that we’re in the Confederacy. I’m not racist,I like all the races I’m just saying,it’s NOT racist. Besides,because of this idiotic ban of the flag we can’t watch Dukes of Hazzard on TV no more! Have you ever wondered if your Grandfather or other ancestors served the Confederacy? I’m sure some of us have some connection to it,including me.

Its more about heritage and pride of the south. I’m not here to argue,I’m not here to offend I just simply want to hear your thoughts on the matter. Please don’t cause a fight.

Until then,keep it clean

Rules:

No arguments

No Fbombs or racial language

lets just discuss not argue. Have a good day

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

No, it wasn't. 

The flag represents what the confederacy fought for. But at the end of the end of the day, that boils down to one group of people having the right to own others based on the colour of their skin. Which is a fairly racist idea if you ask me. 

[MangoFoalix 25,037]

In my opinion, I feel that it was unnecessary. People can get offended all the want but at the end of the day, it's still a part of history. With banning the flag, you are in turn banning an important part of history with it.

[Twiggy 2,966]

Unnecessary, unfortunate, but potentially profitable. Certain companies that make flags are deciding to stop production, and that scarcity is going to drive prices up. It would be a good long term investment to buy a few boxes of them if you have expendable income imo. Exponentially more so if in the future some sort of Orwellian legislation is passed banning their sale in the private sector.

Everything is a business opportunity.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Twiggy

[Clod 8,294]

Nah. The Confederacy was about slavery, was it not? So then flying the flag to show support for what the Confederacy was means you support slavery, doesn't it? Should be treated like the Nazi flag.

[Hachiroku 127]

This stuff is gone too out of hand. I can't even buy a model of the General Lee from Dukes of Hazard. You people need to grow some skin ffs.

[Feather Scribbles 194]

7 minutes ago, Hachiroku said:

This stuff is gone too out of hand. I can't even buy a model of the General Lee from Dukes of Hazard. You people need to grow some skin ffs.

No it has not. Why should we tolerate what is deemed racist? Why should anyone? The next thing I know, you're going to make a complaint that the swastika should be unbanned. -_-

[Ganondox 899]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/tom-petty-on-past-confederate-flag-use-it-was-downright-stupid-20150714

Anyway, the confederates were traitors to the Union, and should be treated as such.  It was over a century ago, learn to be proud of who you are now, not for sharing the same land as the sorest losers ever.

[Hachiroku 127]

1 hour ago, Feather Scribbles said:

No it has not. Why should we tolerate what is deemed racist? Why should anyone? The next thing I know, you're going to make a complaint that the swastika should be unbanned. -_-

it's not racist, and swastikas shouldn't be banned either.

[PK_Fire 1]

2 minutes ago, Hachiroku said:

it's not racist, and swastikas shouldn't be banned either.

^I completely agree. It is a freaking flag. It represents something that was "bad" back in the old days, but now that "bad" thing is gone. Same with swastikas.

Why people get so up in arms over a symbol is absolutely beyond me. They should hate the ideologies of the culture, not the flag that used to represent that culture. And I also totally agree it's like trying to censor history. 

[Kronos the Revenant 1,971]

24 minutes ago, Hachiroku said:

it's not racist, and swastikas shouldn't be banned either.

Interesting fact about the swastika, it was originally an Aztec symbol of power and good fortune

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by Kronos the Revenant

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Thorgir the Mighty said:

No arguments

>Make a thread that people will naturally have strong opinions about and not expect arguments.

6 hours ago, Thorgir the Mighty said:

No Fbombs or racial language

You don't set the rules for swearing on this forum...

1 hour ago, Feather Scribbles said:

No it has not. Why should we tolerate what is deemed racist?

Because in today's day in age you have idiots like this:

 

Did banning the flag have any tangible effect on racism?

[Twiggy 2,966]

6 minutes ago, Key Sharkz said:

Did banning the flag have any tangible effect on racism?

People double down when attacked, so it has hardened the hearts of racists, making them far less likely to change their ways. 

[The Kaeya Simp 13,989]

DISCLAIMER I HAVE NO F****NG CLUE WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT, BUT FROM THE LITTLE I HAVE LEARNED ABOUT THE TOPIC AT HAND, I WILL PRESENT MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION, I AM NOT TRYING TO OFFEND ANYPONY, NOR EVER TRYTO OFFEND.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

My opinion is more towards the ban because even though the confederacy no longer exists, the flag still represents the confederation of the south, therefore making it pretty racist to walk around with a confederate flag due to the reasons why the confedacy existed,  and that was slavery.no matter how you look t he flag, it still represents a racist time of the south.

[Hachiroku 127]

39 minutes ago, Kronos the Revenant said:

Interesting fact about the swastika, it was originally an Aztec symbol of power and good fortune

 

swastikas are universal symbols of good luck, go to india or japan and you'll see them facing both ways

[Script Chime 184]

I feel because of the reason the flag came to be (The Civil War so they could keep slaves(For the record I know that's part of the reason not the whole reason but it was the biggest one)) is the reason its banned. Its being culturally sensitive to the people affect by this. Namely the black  people that this  was centered around. I'm black and even now with every other race related problem and issue that's come to be recently I still flinch a bit when I hear about a Confederate holiday and when I think or see the flag. The flag on its own, if it had nothing in relation to the Civil War, would be fine but because it has that connection its seen as a symbol of racism and slavery

Edited June 13, 2018 by Script Chime
Wanted to State my point a bit better

[Snow Frostflame 3,568]

I agree with you, its just a damn flag. People wave it proudly not because they're racist like others love to preach, but because they're proud of the Confederate legacy. Even though I see the Confederates as a bunch of traitors, I understand why the south still waves their flag and I respect it.

[Gestum 2,493]

No. The Confederate flag is a symbol for what they believed in, namely whites being better than everyone else and that black people shouldn't share the same rights as white people. In fact slavery was such a big deal for them that they forbid individual states in the Confederate States of America to abolish slavery. 

Then there's the problem of the flag being used to express anti-black sentiments. Such as being used by the KKK, people who protested against the civil rights movement and people who tried to keep white people and black people segregated. So even if we were to ignore the civil war aspect of the flag,it would still have racist connotations.

8 hours ago, Califorum said:

What the confederates were fighting for was independence,

But the whole reason for why they wanted independence was because they wanted slavery. If they hadn't felt like slavery  threatened they would never had left the union. So they still fought for the right to own slaves.

8 hours ago, Califorum said:

keep in mind they had no industrial capability, so unfortunately they had to use slavery to tend their crops

That was true in like the 17th century when there was a lack of manpower in America. At the time of the civil war there was no lack of immigrants that would have gladly help tend to their crops. Of course it wouldn't have been as profitable as forcing people to work for no pay but it would have worked.

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by Gestum

[Kronos the Revenant 1,971]

5 hours ago, Hachiroku said:

swastikas are universal symbols of good luck, go to india or japan and you'll see them facing both ways

in China, it's actually called a manji

[Ganondox 899]

12 hours ago, Kronos the Revenant said:

Interesting fact about the swastika, it was originally an Aztec symbol of power and good fortune

 

They didn't take it from the Aztecs, but from the Indians, it's a pretty basic geometric symbol so it's been formed independently multiple times. 

12 hours ago, Key Sharkz said:

>Make a thread that people will naturally have strong opinions about and not expect arguments.

You don't set the rules for swearing on this forum...

Because in today's day in age you have idiots like this:

 

Did banning the flag have any tangible effect on racism?

People completely misunderstand what she is saying here because they frankly aren't smart enough to listen to the whole thing, keep track of her argument, and actually understand it, and instead they decide to take offense. Anita's not the one who is offended, it's the people who whine when she points out sexism in their favorite toys. So anyway, the point is that sexism isn't a property of artifacts within a culture (as far as Anita's commentary is concerned, the artifacts in question are typically video games), it's a property of the culture itself. As such, that sexism is reflected in all the artifacts of the culture. While sexism is bad, it doesn't make the artifacts bad, as they are a just a product of the of the kiln they were forged in. They is plenty of other aspects of them which are good, and when everything is sexist you can't use the presence of sexism to discriminate good artifacts from bad artifacts. It does let you do something else, however. The presence of sexism in artifacts provides a concrete manifestation of the sexism in the culture. As a result, that sexism can be addressed by referring to the object, with the goal of getting people to become aware of that sexism so that they can consciously avoid it themselves (to clarify, that does not mean avoiding the artifact, it means changing their own behavior, where the artifact acts as a record of past behavior). The ultimate goal has nothing to do with video games, it's about changing culture itself, video games are just a vehicle for attempting such. 

Anyway, Anita’s comment has NOTHING to do with the Confederate Flag. The confederate flag people are talking about isn’t an artifact, it’s a symbol. People use it to send a message. Many people from the south think the message they are sending is southern pride, but the message many people are receiving is “we wish Black people were slaves”. There is a reason people are opposed to it. 

Edited June 13, 2018 by Ganondox

[Kronos the Revenant 1,971]

55 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

They didn't take it from the Aztecs, but from the Indians, it's a pretty basic geometric symbol so it's been formed independently multiple times. 

 

 

oh, thanks for clarifying that. i knew i heard it from somewhere, i just didnt remember where.

[Ganondox 899]

Also, what exactly is this ban that’s being talked about? I have my opinions on the flag, but I need to know exactly what the ban is to give my opinion on the ban itself. 

[Gestum 2,493]

36 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

Also, what exactly is this ban that’s being talked about? 

The only ban (other than in schools and on private property) I could find was that in California state agencies aren't allowed to display/sell items bearing the flag. 

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Gestum

[Denim&Venöm 19,276]

Seems like it's more an issue of people hating being told what to do or what they cannot do. Nevertheless, I do see the issue of broadcasting such a symbol. School, businesses, private property, they don't want that stigma. You can display that on your own private property as much as you want. Part of freedom of expression that this country loves to protect. But when you have customers and a reputation, such actions have consequences. 

 

[Ganondox 899]

25 minutes ago, Gestum said:

The only ban (other than in schools and on private property) I could find was that in California state agencies aren't allowed to display/sell items bearing the flag. 

 

I think people should have the right to fly it on their own private property (if they want to broadcast themselves as hateful people that's their choice), but it has no business being displayed by an public agency. You don't fly the flags of traitors from your state offices. California state agencies better not being selling any such thing.